Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1748373 times)

Fable

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1200 on: September 05, 2014, 07:00:27 PM »
Repeat the mantra: NCSoft is selling the IP. (Everything else is gravy.)

I don't think they have a much better option to be honest.
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Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1201 on: September 05, 2014, 07:08:23 PM »
This was not the news I was hoping for.

I absolutely despise the way some Asian companies do business.  They will buy properties from and interests in western companies.  Too much 'saving face' all the damn time is annoying.  Selling the cancelled property and having someone revive it and be successful with it would cause them to lose face:  they would be seen as incompetent or short-sighted.  In Asian companies, you are not allowed to criticize your superiors, or even offer advice.

Shenzhen Kexiang Mould Tool Co blames Astin Martin for their recent problems, even though they were supplying AM with plastic components that were counterfiet DuPont plastics.  It wasn't the sub-contractor's fault, or that they were selling these counterfiets, it was AM's fault for discovering it and doing something about it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/why-did-gm-take-so-long-to-respond-to-deadly-defect-corporate-culture-may-hold-answer/2014/03/30/5c366f6c-b691-11e3-b84e-897d3d12b816_story.html

Quote
I'm sure someone in the cockpit of Asiana Airlines Flight 214 saw they were too low too soon, but wouldn't say anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster

AlienOne

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1202 on: September 05, 2014, 07:24:24 PM »
If a speedster can propel himself forward that fast with that much force, there's no reason why he can't use that force to propel himself upward higher than normal, and at least have a Ninja-Run-type leap.

That's sorta how I imagined my character doing that... It wasn't really "Combat Jumping" to me... It was exactly that. He was so fast that he was able to use some of that kinetic energy to propel himself higher--that or it could be "explained" that he used his loose clothing as sort of a parachute effect to use the wind to float up a bit higher... :)
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LaughingAlex

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1203 on: September 05, 2014, 07:26:18 PM »
That's sorta how I imagined my character doing that... It wasn't really "Combat Jumping" to me... It was exactly that. He was so fast that he was able to use some of that kinetic energy to propel himself higher--that or it could be "explained" that he used his loose clothing as sort of a parachute effect to use the wind to float up a bit higher... :)

My fastest super speeder was also a kineticist.  Yes, I had super speed on a kin, and inertia reduction.

One thing I'd really like though, rocket/grenade/.......and dynamite jumping!
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hejtmane

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1204 on: September 05, 2014, 07:36:33 PM »
Before ninja run on my katana/sr back in the old days at one point my travel power was quickness + swift + sprint with SO's in them and Combat Jumping


Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1205 on: September 05, 2014, 07:44:25 PM »
If a speedster can propel himself forward that fast with that much force, there's no reason why he can't use that force to propel himself upward higher than normal, and at least have a Ninja-Run-type leap.

Well, technically there's lots of reasons.

Ultimately, in a superhero/villain game where physics-bending and physics-breaking content is the norm, the rationale for why some things are allowed and some things are not allowed rest on more intricate and complex holistic decisions about what's best for the game overall.

AlienOne

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1206 on: September 05, 2014, 07:49:36 PM »
Well, technically there's lots of reasons.

Ultimately, in a superhero/villain game where physics-bending and physics-breaking content is the norm, the rationale for why some things are allowed and some things are not allowed rest on more intricate and complex holistic decisions about what's best for the game overall.

Yeah, such as "If I can jump x amount of distance with super speed, why would anyone ever get super jump?"
"What COH did was to show [developers of other] MMOs what they could be like if they gave up on controlling everything in the game, and just made it something great to play."  - Johnny Joy Bringer

kribbla

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1207 on: September 05, 2014, 07:49:46 PM »
I guess my question is were they released before I23 went live. If we get the sale, but we receive an image created on I23 release date... you get my point.

From ParagonWiki:
This set was added to the game for Blasters, Corruptors, and Defenders on July 10, 2012, as an update to Issue 23.

Ironwolf

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1208 on: September 05, 2014, 07:59:00 PM »
Let me put this in in my own thoughts:

If we don't get the game back we can make our own game. We can import all of the graphics and missions - even the characters with minor changes - because - CoH ran on the Cryptic engine and had different names for its characters. Making your own game with similar gameplay is not illegal.

Surelle

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1209 on: September 05, 2014, 08:02:43 PM »
I have a silly question that mostly likely is yet to be determined.

If NCSoft does indeed sell the IP and we get back the game at I23, has there been a determination as to what image/update we might be talking about? I23 the day it was pushed to live or the state of the game just prior to shutdown?

The reason I'm asking is to see if our last three sets would be included. Bio Armor, Nature Affinity and Water Blast. Unless my memory is failing (and it could be) wasn't each of these placed in the game after I23 was released?

It has been mentioned several times now that the i23 we would be given is a snapshot from the servers the night the game closed down.  I think we're safe.

AlienOne

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1210 on: September 05, 2014, 08:02:53 PM »
Let me put this in in my own thoughts:

If we don't get the game back we can make our own game. We can import all of the graphics and missions - even the characters with minor changes - because - CoH ran on the Cryptic engine and had different names for its characters. Making your own game with similar gameplay is not illegal.

If we did this (due to not getting the game), would having zones that look exactly the same (as in Atlas Park Revival) be a problem, even if we named the zone something else? I'm not sure how "copyright" stuff works within games...
"What COH did was to show [developers of other] MMOs what they could be like if they gave up on controlling everything in the game, and just made it something great to play."  - Johnny Joy Bringer

opprime2828

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1211 on: September 05, 2014, 08:09:15 PM »
FWIW, the CoT policy on Voice work is "If you can't do it right, you shouldn't try"  and we're choosing not to risk it. Superhero dialog teeters VERY corny making it difficult to pull off straight even by frontline talent.  If we had a more universal theme, like, say Freedom Force, it's a lot easier.

This actually really saddens me. First, because with my set up reading long boxes of text becomes a bit tedious and takes me OUT of the game world, but more importantly...
 
To me it's a sign of a game that will already feel "dated" by design in ways new players might find unpalatable.  I work with teenagers and can tell you that this younger generation sees games where all dialogue is text based as outdated to the point of being "quaint."  It seems rather like the mindset Nintendo took with HD graphics and Dialogue in the last generation console wars, and we see how that turned out.  At least the 200 or so of us who have a Wii U do. Not keeping up with the direction of the medium REALLY hurt Nintendo badly.  To the point that they may never recover, even after releasing and entirely new console to try and make up the losses.
 
Of course, as someone with an extensive background in writing, I wholeheartedly disagree with your comments on super hero dialogue.  Have you ever watched ANY of the current Marvel Universe cartoons on Disney?  Or any of the JLU series? The reason that dialogue is "good" while the 1980 Superfriends dialogue is "bad" has nothing to do with the medium itself, it has to do with expectations. 
 
Good dialogue is good dialogue. Bad dialogue is bad dialogue. If you're writing "corny" dialogue that's not because of the genre, it's because of bad writing or because the assumption is that somehow it "should" be corny.  That was the expectation in the 60s, 70s, and 80s for Super Heroes, both in style, story line, and dialogue. They were campy and over the top.  It isn't the expectation any more, and unless you want to pull a Champions Online, which pursued that antiquated view of Super heroes to its detriment, then your writing shouldn't have any dialogue bordering on "corny", so it shouldn't need Morgan Freeman to pull off.
 
Just my 2 cents.   
 

Angel Phoenix77

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1212 on: September 05, 2014, 08:20:35 PM »
I have an open question, where there is an update will it be posted in this thread or Iron Wolf's? Also want to say thank you for trying to get this game back :)
One day the Phoenix will rise again.

Nightmarer

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1213 on: September 05, 2014, 08:27:08 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster

Heck, I do remember that and I was just 7 years old. It was way beyond the terrorism we were starting to get familiar with on those days.-

Ironwolf

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1214 on: September 05, 2014, 08:30:37 PM »
If we did this (due to not getting the game), would having zones that look exactly the same (as in Atlas Park Revival) be a problem, even if we named the zone something else? I'm not sure how "copyright" stuff works within games...

They will not be the same. While the project to make the same zones is happening - they will not be pixel perfect copies. Some other enviromental things will be added. Do yourself a favor and go look at any CoH video and then search for an UnReal 4 engine demo - they will be light years in difference.

Codewalker

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1215 on: September 05, 2014, 08:42:53 PM »
They will not be the same. While the project to make the same zones is happening - they will not be pixel perfect copies. Some other enviromental things will be added. Do yourself a favor and go look at any CoH video and then search for an UnReal 4 engine demo - they will be light years in difference.

It's still a direct copy of the zone layout, and much of the geometry and quite a few textures are being ripped from the client. That's a clear copyright violation if the IP deal doesn't go through. It doesn't matter if you clean them up first, the fact that you started from it as a base makes it a derivative work.

You'd have to not only use completely different zone layouts, but also create all your assets from scratch (or buy/find free ones to use) to be in the clear.

Edit: Look at it this way. Creating a Mickey Mouse character in Unreal and making a game around it, even if you didn't directly get it from somewhere, still violates Disney's copyright.

CrimsonCapacitor

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1216 on: September 05, 2014, 08:44:45 PM »

This actually really saddens me. First, because with my set up reading long boxes of text becomes a bit tedious and takes me OUT of the game world, but more importantly...
 
To me it's a sign of a game that will already feel "dated" by design in ways new players might find unpalatable.  I work with teenagers and can tell you that this younger generation sees games where all dialogue is text based as outdated to the point of being "quaint."  It seems rather like the mindset Nintendo took with HD graphics and Dialogue in the last generation console wars, and we see how that turned out.  At least the 200 or so of us who have a Wii U do. Not keeping up with the direction of the medium REALLY hurt Nintendo badly.  To the point that they may never recover, even after releasing and entirely new console to try and make up the losses.
 
Of course, as someone with an extensive background in writing, I wholeheartedly disagree with your comments on super hero dialogue.  Have you ever watched ANY of the current Marvel Universe cartoons on Disney?  Or any of the JLU series? The reason that dialogue is "good" while the 1980 Superfriends dialogue is "bad" has nothing to do with the medium itself, it has to do with expectations. 
 
Good dialogue is good dialogue. Bad dialogue is bad dialogue. If you're writing "corny" dialogue that's not because of the genre, it's because of bad writing or because the assumption is that somehow it "should" be corny.  That was the expectation in the 60s, 70s, and 80s for Super Heroes, both in style, story line, and dialogue. They were campy and over the top.  It isn't the expectation any more, and unless you want to pull a Champions Online, which pursued that antiquated view of Super heroes to its detriment, then your writing shouldn't have any dialogue bordering on "corny", so it shouldn't need Morgan Freeman to pull off.
 
Just my 2 cents.   
 

Play CO for about 30 minutes.  They have voice talent.  It's bad.  As in pure sliced Velveeta cheesy bad.

Why spend the money for the voice acting if it's going to be... bad? 

TSW does OK voice acting.  It's via cutscenes and works well.  But it's rather jarring to be walking towards a contact and suddenly, "WHAM!" cutscene.

I don't have a problem with reading dialog boxes (and I'm not saying that settles it.)  Often, in voice overs, I miss what is said...
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Super Firebug

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1217 on: September 05, 2014, 08:55:46 PM »
Play CO for about 30 minutes.  They have voice talent.  It's bad.  As in pure sliced Velveeta cheesy bad.

Yeah, that ought to be long enough to include the treat that is Kevin Poe's scenery-chewing monologue.
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Burnt Toast

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1218 on: September 05, 2014, 09:07:26 PM »

30 minutes that's about how long I played CO lol!

Play CO for about 30 minutes.  They have voice talent.  It's bad.  As in pure sliced Velveeta cheesy bad.

Why spend the money for the voice acting if it's going to be... bad? 

TSW does OK voice acting.  It's via cutscenes and works well.  But it's rather jarring to be walking towards a contact and suddenly, "WHAM!" cutscene.

I don't have a problem with reading dialog boxes (and I'm not saying that settles it.)  Often, in voice overs, I miss what is said...

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1219 on: September 05, 2014, 09:25:40 PM »
DCUO Super Speed is one of the best things ever. SUPER fun to run up the side of a building, and leap into the air off of it!
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