Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1712131 times)

HEATSTROKE

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #320 on: September 02, 2014, 03:29:26 AM »
Ill throw in some cash to help someone go "find" character data  ;D

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #321 on: September 02, 2014, 03:30:27 AM »
Correct. Without the IP, you may still have a melee-based character who uses a sword and is highly resistant to damage, but you'll never again run an ITF on your fully-IOed Kat/Inv Scrapper. It's the content that makes City of Heroes what it is, not just the mechanics.

With an in-depth enough knowledge, mechanics can be replicated. Fairly easily. If I know that a Fire blaster, using Flares does, we'll say 6 DPS at level 1 without enhancements...then I can simply tell Unreal that a Level 1 Flares, with no enhcs, does 6 DPS.

But, without the I.P....I can't make that Fire Blaster.

There's a touch of misunderstanding going around, that moving to Unreal means that something about the gameplay will change. That's simply not true.
Is it likely that adjustments to certain things will be made during Beta? Yeah, just like during CoH. The devs would test, and adjust.
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MM3squints

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #322 on: September 02, 2014, 03:30:50 AM »
On the bright side, static binaries means no more nerfs ;)

O rly? Challenge accepted xD

Shifter

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #323 on: September 02, 2014, 03:34:49 AM »
Have no fear, I'm pretty sure I can fish up the binary offsets for the Regen powers in order to reduce their effectiveness periodically.

O rly? Challenge accepted xD

You two are EEEEEEVIL, LOL.
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Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #324 on: September 02, 2014, 03:36:00 AM »
That's my read on things, although getting CoH 1.5 in Unreal will be an undertaking in and of itself. The good thing about that though would be that it could be expanded upon (in theory), which a maintenance mode i23 can't.

A fairly large undertaking, as I've learned. Not an entirely unpleasant one however.
Also, Expanding on it is the plan. Perhaps not exactly how Positron would have... ;P Since everyone knows what his plan was now.
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LaughingAlex

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #325 on: September 02, 2014, 03:36:46 AM »
O rly? Challenge accepted xD

*Gives an evil eye towards scorpion shield, then a little angel says maybe buff up the other ancillery pools to allow them to match up to mace, also please don't nerf power build up you'd make the ancilleries it's in useless(especially in the face of mace mastery)*
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sindyr

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #326 on: September 02, 2014, 03:38:27 AM »
Let me come right out and admit that the apparent loss of the i24 perfection patch has hit me harder than expected. So let me ask, is there a way to get i24? I would move a lot of mountains to get i24 back. Is it a money thing? I am so in mourning for it I would donate quite a bit to get us that issue - perhaps other people would too.

Do we have to give up on i24 CoX now, or is there a way?

AnElfCalledMack

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #327 on: September 02, 2014, 03:38:56 AM »
Would someone be kind enough to PM and explain what SCoRE is.  I think I know, and Ive found a blog site by that name associated with CoH.  But if someone could be kind enough to hook me up with the 411 on this Id appreciate it ... see I no longer have CoH installed ...
SCoRE (I thought it stood for Source Code Reverse Engineering?) is a rumoured attempt to reverse-engineer the source code of the game, and construct a functional server without buying or licensing anything. I know of no evidence that the project is even occurring, but it's something of an urban myth either way. The idea of reverse-engineering was brought up around the closure, but as it operates in very shady legal areas, any detailed discussion took place in private.

Legally, the EULA prohibited reverse-engineering, but there's an argument that NCSoft terminated the EULA and TOS by shutting down the servers. Regardless, this reverse-engineering would be gross copyright breach if used for a commercial purpose, and is in very unclear territory even if used free-of-charge and by not-for-profit organisations, depending on the jurisdiction it's judged in and the degree to which creating a private server for a no-longer-available game constitutes "fair use" of the IP and code, since the owner isn't actually losing subscription fees. There's very little precedent here. Honestly, the only one I can think of is the VCR decision - that designing technology that changes the parameters (such as time), but not the content, on a household scale counts as "fair use" under US copyright laws.

It has nothing to do with replacing your client - like I said, the license from the new CoH holding company would almost certainly include a license to distribute the game client to players.

ivanhedgehog

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #328 on: September 02, 2014, 03:42:15 AM »
Purchase IP, license engine.

they probably use that engine in other places and dont want to sell it outright

AnElfCalledMack

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #329 on: September 02, 2014, 03:49:32 AM »
Let me come right out and admit that the apparent loss of the i24 perfection patch has hit me harder than expected. So let me ask, is there a way to get i24? I would move a lot of mountains to get i24 back. Is it a money thing? I am so in mourning for it I would donate quite a bit to get us that issue - perhaps other people would too.

Do we have to give up on i24 CoX now, or is there a way?

Negotiations are ongoing, and very little is off the table. However, we are not in the room and we aren't sure how unwilling NCSoft is to budge on it. For example, they may not have a binary of i24 - only source code for the patch. Thus, they'd have to give the team the full source code (something they are very unwilling to do, it seems) and allow the new company to compile the i24 server. And while money will help change minds, sometimes, there is only so far they are willing to move. In the end, we have to trust the people doing the negotiating - for many of them, these sorts of deals are their job, and they know how to get as much as they can and when something is truly off the table.

The deal isn't closed, so we don't have to give up on anything right yet. i24 isn't part of the package right now, but that might shift - perhaps as a concession to some other demand, or for a price the group can meet. But nothing is signed, and pushing too hard could mean we get nothing. So hope by all means, but be prepared that we may well not get it.

ParagonKid

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #330 on: September 02, 2014, 03:53:35 AM »
Not to sound unappreciated of the efforts, because I absolutely do respect all the hard work everyone has put in, but the outcome, as I understand how it currently stands, seems unappealing to me. The last thing I ever wanted to see is City in maintenance mode. Doubly so with all data wiped. The returning community will be a shell of what it once was, the game itself a walking corpse that will never see improvement, never grow, never change, for however long they can keep the server(s?) going, which may not be long. While I had no issues paying a subscription back in the day, ditto for buying stuff on the market, I did so knowing I was supporting a team that was constantly growing the game, which everyone thought would be around for many many more years.

I simply have no desire to pay for, or have faith in, a game that has no real future. so I probably wont return if pay to play is on the table, or anything in the market costs anything, which it most certainly will be the case since I know even running a game in maintenance mode isn't free.

YMMV, however, and I do not besmirch anyone who just wants the game back. So do I, but just not at all costs.
To quote Stephen King's Pet Sematary: "Sometimes dead is better."

Never say never though, and call me if ever 'City of Heroes 2' is entering closed beta.
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Shifter

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #331 on: September 02, 2014, 03:55:31 AM »
Regardless, this reverse-engineering would be gross copyright breach if used for a commercial purpose, and is in very unclear territory even if used free-of-charge and by not-for-profit organisations, depending on the jurisdiction it's judged in and the degree to which creating a private server for a no-longer-available game constitutes "fair use" of the IP and code, since the owner isn't actually losing subscription fees. There's very little precedent here.

Hmm... If you add a couple of pads to "fight club", is it now "kickboxing", a legitimate legal sport?
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Jade77

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #332 on: September 02, 2014, 04:00:38 AM »
Been along time since I popped in here (not that I was by a whole loot to begin with).  This is great news and I await the final results.  Kudos to all the hard work done to get this far.

Will any of the former staff of Paragon Studios be jumping on board to get this up and running when (fingers crossed) it happenes.

Really hope we can get the character data back too.  :)
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AnElfCalledMack

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #333 on: September 02, 2014, 04:04:17 AM »
Hmm... If you add a couple of pads to "fight club", is it now "kickboxing", a legitimate legal sport?
In some jurisdictions, probably. Or you might need a ref and some waivers as well. The weird thing about doing stuff on the internet, though, is that you never know whose laws you'll be judged by for sure.

Illusionss

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #334 on: September 02, 2014, 04:06:07 AM »
The last thing I ever wanted to see is City in maintenance mode. Doubly so with all data wiped.

I do not doubt the validity of your feelings. However, they are not shared by many others. Manymany others.

Quote
To quote Stephen King's Pet Sematary: "Sometimes dead is better."

If you don't want to play in maintenance mode, no one is forcing you to. However, many others feel quite differently.

We've had two years of death. That is more than enough for me, and no I did not find it "better." Not one day went by when I did not miss the game. Many of us have mourned for the whole two years.

If you don't want to play, then don't. Fair enough. I just want my world back.

Black Gold

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #335 on: September 02, 2014, 04:06:53 AM »
That's not how I read Nate's post. What it sounds like is the IP will be sold, lock, stock, and barrel, to a new "City of Heroes" company that will own it. They will be able to license the IP to others to use for various things (games, publishing, etc.), but they, in turn will be licensing the game engine from NCSoft so that a maintenance mode CoH game can be provided.

Obviously, not a part of the team myself, so I could very well be misunderstanding, but that is the way the OP reads to me.

EDIT: Specifically-

That latter paragraph, also, reads as if the spiritual successors may be exempt from licensing fees as part of this arrangement (though other successor games not in current negotiations probably would not).

Again, I may be reading too much between the lines.

 I can't see how you interpreted any of that from what was written. I read it as this 3rd party company would license it from NCSoft and be able to lease it out.  And saw nothing at all about exception from fees.

Zombie Hustler

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #336 on: September 02, 2014, 04:08:36 AM »
Mind, too, that maintenance mode isn't what is currently foreseen as the last stages of the game.

Zombie Hustler

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #337 on: September 02, 2014, 04:10:15 AM »
I can't see how you interpreted any of that from what was written. I read it as this 3rd party company would license it from NCSoft and be able to lease it out.  And saw nothing at all about exception from fees.

That latter part was perhaps my reading into things, yes. As for the former part, check out this post from Nate.

Shard

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #338 on: September 02, 2014, 04:11:41 AM »
I did have a wry smile but the question wasn't really answered.

Is it the case that NCsoft have chosen not to release the source code or do they simply not have it anymore?

My understanding is it is not on the table, a no go.  My recollection of the way is a mix of they won't and they can't.
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Illusionss

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #339 on: September 02, 2014, 04:12:46 AM »
Negotiations are ongoing, and very little is off the table. However, we are not in the room and we aren't sure how unwilling NCSoft is to budge on it. For example, they may not have a binary of i24 - only source code for the patch. Thus, they'd have to give the team the full source code (something they are very unwilling to do, it seems) and allow the new company to compile the i24 server.

Forgive a no doubt really ignorant question, but why would they be so fierce about the source code for a game from 2004...? they cant possibly still be basing one of their current games off of it, this just seems kind of bonkers to me. How could that code be anything other than a curiosity in today's gaming world?

[Except to us, natch.]