Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1712676 times)

Shard

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #280 on: September 02, 2014, 02:24:11 AM »
-Whispers back to Surelle- Pssssssst, IDK who works on SCoRE! and I think what SCoRE and I are doing are kinda on different paths. But, I don't think they should give up either! (If SCoRE does exist, and one of the people who may or may not be working on it feel like getting in touch with me...)

If SCoRE is the group I am aware of I do not think, in good concious we could cooperate.  I'll have to doiuble check, I may have my "They who shall not be named" crossed up.
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ukaserex

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #281 on: September 02, 2014, 02:25:54 AM »
Folks, I think many of these comments are putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. There's nothing cast in stone. Nothing in writing. Just an offer on the table. Nothing more, nothing less.

First, this licensing entity must be formed, right?

Then they have to get the rights to CoH so that they can license it to whomever would wish to make use of the lore, characters and such.

Then there's the matter of this Hail Mary team getting the game up and running from some binary copy - whatever that may mean. Uncompiled? <shrug> I'll leave that to you folks that know a lot more about it than I do. I'd be lucky to compile a "hello world" sucessfully.

My guess is that there will be at least another 3 months minimum under the best of conditions to get things running again. More likely 6 to 9 months - if the planets are all in alignment.

And that's okay. It's a better scenario than what we had before. Now, we have a glimmer of hope.

As for MWM and the Phoenix project - please continue your efforts on that project. It's what we paid for. This CoH deal may never come to pass.
I certainly hope it will, but it may not.

As for Atlas Park Revival - um...I know I took a break from the forums for a bit - but I'd never even heard of this before. Today's the first time I've seen it mentioned anywhere. Guess this was another effort that escaped my attention.

My guess is that our Sentinel files are still pretty much useless under this scenario?
Those who have no idea what they are doing genuinely have no idea that they don't know what they're doing. - John Cleese

HEATSTROKE

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #282 on: September 02, 2014, 02:26:31 AM »
 Can someone explain this in plain english..

 To me it looks like..

  NC Soft sells IP to another company or sets up another company who will run CoH in maintenance mode..

  APR will work to transfer current Issue 23 CoH into Unreal Engine 4 so it can update CoH effectively making in CoH 1.5

  MWM will continue to develop City of Titans.. and effectively City of Titans since I will be able to licence the IP no longer making it a " spiritual successor " but an ACTUAL successor with the possibility of importing the CoH 1.5 ???

 Is that close ??

blacksly

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #283 on: September 02, 2014, 02:26:37 AM »
I just want to say something. This is partially an expansion of my last post on the previous page. But hear me out.

People on this thread and elsewhere seem to be focussed on the technical aspects and "when can I log in again"?

Issues with the game engine and source code and the like pale into insignificance compared to freeing the IP from NCSoft.

Read the following again:

Old clunky game engine? Incompatibility with Win 9?

DOESN'T MATTER.

It's the IDEAS and the Intellectual Property that is the real heart and soul of City of Heroes - and if THAT part of the deal goes through as described, then that part of the game - the concepts - the background stories - the characters - the NPCS - the visual design...

THAT PART will have been put in the hands of people who actually CARE about it!

Eventually the game engine will HAVE to change, one way or another. But moving it to Unreal Engine - and allowing other games to be part of the City of Heroes story and reference it..

GOOD GOD... That's HUGE.

Do you know what this means? SERIOUSLY? Have you thought it out to the extreme?

I just have. And it boggles my mind.

Imagine not one or two - but perhaps a DOZEN games - all in the same overall universe story-wise.

IF... IF this is not just NCSoft yanking people around again. If they really allow the IP to go. Then game engines don't matter. CODE doesn't matter.

The Story and the World of City of Heroes can live on even if the original game engine is (or has to be) discarded.

City of Heroes?

Imagine WORLD OF HEROES as a FRANCHISE.

I'm having a hard time being too interested in that. City of Heroes was a great GAME. As a world it was only good, and many of the creative minds that worked on it, or played in it, could create another very interesting world. But keeping the particular world alive is more important and relevant for financial reasons, than for reasons of imagination.

On the other side, I've read lots and lots of books. Many of them were set in great universes (Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Star Trek, Star Wars)... and many of the books were just bad. Getting a dozen games, of different types, all related to City of Heroes... means next to nothing, if the games are bad. And if they're good, they could be good whether they're tied into CoH or not. I am not in the slightest bit hopeful that a related game is going to be a great game just because it's set in the CoH world. It could be great, yes, but if a team makes a great game... they would have made a great game whether they set it in the CoH or the CoT world.

The game itself (code and design) are what matter to me, because they are a clearly superior product.

Shard

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #284 on: September 02, 2014, 02:34:44 AM »
I may have missed this when I read through the thread but I have 3 questions.
1. Why is the source code off the table? Is it;
a) NCsoft don't have it
or
b) NCsoft don't want to part with it

It's a little more complicated.  There are weird ownership issues and what is and is not transferable from an entity that may or may not legally exist, etc. It's a rats nest and it kills things.

2. Why are the existing user database and characters not part of this arrangement? Wouldn't it be good business practice to try and get as many ex-players back as they can. The prospect of players being able to recover beloved characters and SG bases etc would be a very powerful draw. There must be some way to invite players back.

Largely this has to do with back end storage and the way that NCSoft chose to do it making it very difficult to yank out.

3. Was any thought given to finishing and using i24?

No Comment.
[/quote]
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Hyper Ai

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #285 on: September 02, 2014, 02:34:50 AM »
I for one am extremely glad I backed MWM on kickstarter. If the community didn't pool together like they did to support one of our successors, this may never have happened.

It's sad to hear they probably wont get our data or the source code for updates ect., but all in all I'm really excited. I can't wait to see what unfolds with all of this great news. I really appreciate all of the hard work you guys put in getting us our game back. I can't thank you enough.

The CoX community truly is a great one.

WolfSoul

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #286 on: September 02, 2014, 02:34:55 AM »
That's what I've been thinking about. Frankly, I could just plotz!  ;D


I just want to say something. This is partially an expansion of my last post on the previous page. But hear me out.

People on this thread and elsewhere seem to be focussed on the technical aspects and "when can I log in again"?

Issues with the game engine and source code and the like pale into insignificance compared to freeing the IP from NCSoft.

Read the following again:

Old clunky game engine? Incompatibility with Win 9?

DOESN'T MATTER.

It's the IDEAS and the Intellectual Property that is the real heart and soul of City of Heroes - and if THAT part of the deal goes through as described, then that part of the game - the concepts - the background stories - the characters - the NPCS - the visual design...

THAT PART will have been put in the hands of people who actually CARE about it!

Eventually the game engine will HAVE to change, one way or another. But moving it to Unreal Engine - and allowing other games to be part of the City of Heroes story and reference it..

GOOD GOD... That's HUGE.

Do you know what this means? SERIOUSLY? Have you thought it out to the extreme?

I just have. And it boggles my mind.

Imagine not one or two - but perhaps a DOZEN games - all in the same overall universe story-wise.

IF... IF this is not just NCSoft yanking people around again. If they really allow the IP to go. Then game engines don't matter. CODE doesn't matter.

The Story and the World of City of Heroes can live on even if the original game engine is (or has to be) discarded.

City of Heroes?

Imagine WORLD OF HEROES as a FRANCHISE.

epawtows

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #287 on: September 02, 2014, 02:35:46 AM »
I may have missed this when I read through the thread but I have 3 questions.

1. Why is the source code off the table? Is it;

a) NCsoft don't have it

or

b) NCsoft don't want to part with it


2. Why are the existing user database and characters not part of this arrangement? Wouldn't it be good business practice to try and get as many ex-players back as they can. The prospect of players being able to recover beloved characters and SG bases etc would be a very powerful draw. There must be some way to invite players back.

3. Was any thought given to finishing and using i24?

Any one of a number of reasons for not going for the source code.  What if NCSoft used bits of CoH code in other games?  Or, heck, programmers who worked on CoH code worked on other games, who may or may not have used bits of earlier jobs in newer ones?  Even NCSoft might not be able to figure out *how* to sell the old source without creating legal issues for their still-active games.  Or, at least, not without spending so much time and effort onto documenting what went where that would cost far more than they're likely to get out of this deal.   

Ice Trix

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #288 on: September 02, 2014, 02:37:05 AM »
The game engine matters far more than the IP to me. Both would be great & I do love the lore, but if I had to choose one or the other, it would be the game engine.

BadWolf

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #289 on: September 02, 2014, 02:44:03 AM »
Thanks to everyone involved in this for the wonderful news so far, and I hope to hear more wonderful news in the days and weeks to come!

One quick request to the forum administrators: Now that the people involved are formally announcing who they are, can we get some sort of designation of their status (whether a title, icon, what have you) in order to differentiate their presumably-official posts from speculation by people like me? Thanks!

DarkCurrent

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #290 on: September 02, 2014, 02:44:49 AM »
My problem is with the word license.  That sounds to me like ncsoft willstill have their claws in the ip.  Not just for coh, but for successors who use any of it. 

Why on earth would those three projects agree to that when they are creating their own worlds?

Blondeshell

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #291 on: September 02, 2014, 02:45:31 AM »
It's a rats nest and it kills things.
That you said this to someone named Cobra Man made me chuckle a little. :)

lapucelle

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #292 on: September 02, 2014, 02:48:47 AM »
The game engine matters far more than the IP to me. Both would be great & I do love the lore, but if I had to choose one or the other, it would be the game engine.

Remember, the engine is different from the game. The engine is simply what renders and runs the game. The game itself, the rules and art and everything, are IP.

Surelle

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #293 on: September 02, 2014, 02:50:41 AM »
My problem is with the word license.  That sounds to me like ncsoft willstill have their claws in the ip.  Not just for coh, but for successors who use any of it. 

...

I'm glad you said it and not me.  But I have been thinking it!  Let's hope there wouldn't be mandatory income levels required or else NC is free to shut down the IP-based games and the backup of CoH again too....  But alas, it sounds like they are quite far away from a concrete deal anyway and it's been almost a year of contacting them already.  So in the end none of this may matter.

SCoRE, I put my faith in you!  Please don't give up! 

AlienOne

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #294 on: September 02, 2014, 02:51:45 AM »
My problem is with the word license.  That sounds to me like ncsoft willstill have their claws in the ip.  Not just for coh, but for successors who use any of it. 

Why on earth would those three projects agree to that when they are creating their own worlds?

This is a great point. Personally, I don't mind if NCSoft is affiliated. However, wouldn't that mean that all three games would have to pay licensing fees to NCSoft forever? Wouldn't that have a major impact on whether or not their respective games could stay alive, should it get to a point (God forbid) that any of the teams have money problems? Couldn't that potentially shut down all three games if NCSoft decides to pull the license?
"What COH did was to show [developers of other] MMOs what they could be like if they gave up on controlling everything in the game, and just made it something great to play."  - Johnny Joy Bringer

Cobra Man

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #295 on: September 02, 2014, 02:53:35 AM »
That you said this to someone named Cobra Man made me chuckle a little. :)

I did have a wry smile but the question wasn't really answered.

Is it the case that NCsoft have chosen not to release the source code or do they simply not have it anymore?


ObsidianPhoenix76

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #296 on: September 02, 2014, 02:56:26 AM »
The game engine matters far more than the IP to me. Both would be great & I do love the lore, but if I had to choose one or the other, it would be the game engine.

But...  The only problem with that is the game engine is pretty specific to City of Heroes.  Thus if we do not get the IP, the engine will not make much of a difference.

Blondeshell

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #297 on: September 02, 2014, 02:58:49 AM »
Remember, the engine is different from the game. The engine is simply what renders and runs the game. The game itself, the rules and art and everything, are IP.

Correct. Without the IP, you may still have a melee-based character who uses a sword and is highly resistant to damage, but you'll never again run an ITF on your fully-IOed Kat/Inv Scrapper. It's the content that makes City of Heroes what it is, not just the mechanics.

Zombie Hustler

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #298 on: September 02, 2014, 03:01:58 AM »

AlienOne

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #299 on: September 02, 2014, 03:03:56 AM »
That's not how I read Nate's post. What it sounds like is the IP will be sold, lock, stock, and barrel, to a new "City of Heroes" company that will own it. They will be able to license the IP to others to use for various things (games, publishing, etc.), but they, in turn will be licensing the game engine from NCSoft so that a maintenance mode CoH game can be provided.

Obviously, not a part of the team myself, so I could very well be misunderstanding, but that is the way the OP reads to me.

Ah, well... That sounds like a MUCH better deal.
"What COH did was to show [developers of other] MMOs what they could be like if they gave up on controlling everything in the game, and just made it something great to play."  - Johnny Joy Bringer