City of Heroes - New Dawn Kickstarter project is drafted and can be previewed

[CoH New Dawn Crowdfunder]

Hello everyone here. I'm a former CoH retail purchaser / subber / VIP (main TeraBolt E/E Blaster, Virtue server). I didn't hear the news about the shutdown right away, so I didn't get this rolling as quickly as otherwise.

But I have gotten it rolling now. The Kickstarter project to raise money to save or resurrect CoH after shutdown is in draft form here - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/515959211/213827601?token=1d181098.

I believe I have a proposal to let us players have the rights to operate CoH which will fulfill NCSoft's business needs and offer them a way out of the customer relations mess they've created. But after that, it's going to take a couple of month's worth of money to ensure the game keeps running / gets back up on other servers while things transition over, hence the Kickstarter.

I need help with the work though, and I'd like to ask for any you folks care to give.

First, I need opinions on the way I've presented this. Kickstarter will not approve projects to "start a business", they must be creative projects with a clear deliverable. Which is fine, because in the hands of players and devs not chained to the corporate approval process, we WILL be creative with the game. We can take the game forward faster and farther than any other MMO owners, and with a completely collaborative process.

But if they shoot it down, I will have to transition to Indiegogo, which will allow any kind of project, but doesn't get anywhere near the attention Kickstarter does. Still, it'll work if we make it work.

Second, I need help with the proposal video. I'm seeing a lot of videos coming out, so I'd like to ask if I can get help creating one, perhaps using some of something that's in the works, or if it's right, all of it. The video is incredibly important, and I have NO creative skills in that area (argg).

Third, I need help with proposal artwork. One of the rewards everyone gets is a hero or villain forum badge which can also be downloaded for signature use. The badges are of different levels, from Visiting Hero / Wandering Villain all the way to Savior of the City / Evil Emperor, so I need unique artwork for each. A headshot with label and caption (I've written one for each badge) should be sufficient as long as they're nicely done.

Fourth, I need MORE help with artwork. Interspersing graphics in the proposal is excellent for punching it up. I'd like to see about heading each section with an appropriate screenshot so people can see the player commitment, not just read about it.

Fifth, I've purchased the domain names cohnewdawn.com (and cohnewdawn.org in case things go non-profit) and am setting up the website today. But of course, then I'm going to need help with artwork for visual design. It never ends :D

So if there's anyone who has a constructive opinion, video or artwork help to offer, please step right up and offer it! Now that I've gotten this far, it's time to get more people involved so that this crowdfunder has the best chance of success.

Thanks for any help!

David

aka New Dawn Crowdfunder, Virtue Server, L1 Defender, Empathy / Sonic

aka TeraBolt, Virtue Server, L35 Electricity / Electricity Blaster

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[Jerlstrom]

I love your proposal!  So long as you support the Macintosh OS, I will support you.  Unfortunately, I'm not an artist.

NCSoft will want lots of details, not to mention lots of money.  I look forward to seeing the details.

Best of luck!

[Olantern]

I don't have time at the moment to read the proposal (hoping to do so later), but ...two really critical suggestions for you.

First, contact TonyV before continuing on with this.  Once money becomes involved, we get basically one shot at this sort of thing, and it's critical that everyone be on board with the same effort, rather than having one person start it off on his own, no matter how well-intentioned he is.

Second, read through the Legal Considerations thread, especially the earlier part, where other people and I discuss what "the rights to CoH" are and what would need to happen for an entity to buy them to be created.

[billymailman]

Yeah, I'm in support of the idea of players crowdfunding a purchase/revival, but honestly, I have no idea who you are, have no reason to trust you with my money, and have no idea if you've looked into the legal issues needed. For all I know, you're some random person looking to buy up the CoH IP and sit on it.

You're probably a very well-meaning player, who just doesn't want to see the game die, but now is NOT the time for something like this, and you're not the person to be running it. If/when the time does come, and the game does need us to pool money together to save it, we need to make damn sure that there's only one effort collecting money, and that it happens only once, so we don't spread ourselves thin. And by that time, we need to have a company formed, we need to have sought legal advice, and we need to know for a fact that NC is actually willing to sell the game. After all, they might well just see a revived CoH as a potential competitor to their games, and decide that killing it permanently is worth any bad PR.

Honestly, your heart's probably in the right place, but if we do this, we need to do it right. And I only really see that happening as part of a proper, official effort by the Titan Network, not a kickstarted effort by a player who hasn't thought it all through. Rest assured, this idea has been considered, just not moved forward on yet.

[Segev]

I had actually posted a similar idea last night, and have the project half-underway, but now I cannot find the post I made. I thought it was #118 in the "contact NCSoft directly" thread.

I am, admittedly, away from my computer that has access to the email to which my account on this forum is connected. Perhaps it was deleted and the notification is waiting for me at home. I do not know why it would have been.

The obstacles I was asking for aid with are similar to yours, and included a list of possible reward incentives. I should have the post still in my browser at home and will repost it here. Perhaps we can collaborate on this.

I firmly believe that the best way to get NCSoft's attention and save this game for its fans is to show that the fans will put the money and effort together to fund a bid for the game. Petitions are wonderful, but companies care about profits more than almost anything else, and if they've made a business decision that they no longer wish to invest the time, energy, and money into this, then the approach proposed in this thread is the best chance of getting attention.

I can't look at the proposal here, but I will do so this evening.

Collaboration will definitely be superior to competition; the goal is to raise the money, not to split it apart.

As for your concerns: Kickstarter expressly forbids money to "start a business" because that's an ongoing proposal. There's not "finish" date. The project, as I had outlined it, is (in very short form) to "buy CoH." That is a well-defined project with a definite completion. It is done when the new company has ownership of Paragon Studios, CoH/CoV, and all associated properties.

Actually running the business is not the project, any more than actually selling the games and other creative projects that Kickstarter has helped fund.

Please feel free to pm me; I will get back to you through here if I can, or this evening. I am pleased somebody else has thought of this, and I hope to be able to work with you on it so that more heads can get this thing off the ground.

[Segev]

Yeah, I'm in support of the idea of players crowdfunding a purchase/revival, but honestly, I have no idea who you are, have no reason to trust you with my money, and have no idea if you've looked into the legal issues needed. For all I know, you're some random person looking to buy up the CoH IP and sit on it.

You're probably a very well-meaning player, who just doesn't want to see the game die, but now is NOT the time for something like this, and you're not the person to be running it. If/when the time does come, and the game does need us to pool money together to save it, we need to make damn sure that there's only one effort collecting money, and that it happens only once, so we don't spread ourselves thin. And by that time, we need to have a company formed, we need to have sought legal advice, and we need to know for a fact that NC is actually willing to sell the game. After all, they might well just see a revived CoH as a potential competitor to their games, and decide that killing it permanently is worth any bad PR.

Honestly, your heart's probably in the right place, but if we do this, we need to do it right. And I only really see that happening as part of a proper, official effort by the Titan Network, not a kickstarted effort by a player who hasn't thought it all through. Rest assured, this idea has been considered, just not moved forward on yet.

Valid points, but there is nothing wrong with getting it started. The goal and trick is to avoid starting multiple competing ones. Starting it before NCSoft will even converse is not counter-productive, but it is a bit of a...gambit. Not "gamble," but gambit.

Primarily, it will likely get their attention, and allow the effort to be taken seriously, if it gains proper momentum.

You have good points on "starting a company" and all that; that takes money and investment that do turn this into a gamble, however. The beauty of a Kickstarter is that it starts as a pledge effort; only when it meets its goals is anything charged. So we set the minimum at a high enough level that it won't be trivially met - which, honestly, is going to be the case for any reasonable bid for this property. Even "$1 million" is likely just a "we're serious about this" amount, not a final offer.

The other thing that this effort does is enable us to form a formal entity and seek out other corporate partners. Running a business is no mean feat, and getting experts into the management positions - all the way up to a board of directors and CEO, etc. - is crucial.

I have business goals in mind for CoH, should this go through.


The final concern you raise - a revived CoH being seen as a potential competitor for their other games - is the biggest. But no effort to buy it from them will cause them to kill it with prejudice greater than they already have shown; NCSoft has likely already concidered CoH as a competitor with their other projects internally. If that is their concern, then it will likely be reflected in price negotiations, if nothing else. They must be taking a hit, just closing down a property like this. Defraying their costs by selling it off will be attractive, if it is taken seriously. Measuring it against future projects and competition is only another concern when considering whether to recoup the sunk costs. So our job will be to ensure that they see it as a net positive.

Which, again, requires that we be taken seriously. The sooner a show of how well-supported this effort will be in serious, real-money terms gets going, the better chance there is of there being a whole product to buy, rather than a half-gutted studio which will require still further investment before it can even get back to nominal functionality. It is this time crunch that convinces me we need to work together on this front now. These things take time to get going. And CoH is running out of it.

Personally, I want the transfer to go smoothly, which means before the lights go out.

[Scott Jackson]

I did read (most of) the kickstarter proposal, and have the following two recommendations:

1) As others have said, make sure TonyV is aware of your interest in joining the Titan effort.  The proposal itself should come from within the Titan community at the right time, to get full player support and trust.

2) The actual wording of the proposal, and rewards offered, what the future development process can do (such as the level of player involvement and the new gameplay ideas set forth) all depend heavily on factors which are not yet known or decided.  For example - structure of the business entity that will buy/license the IP rights from NCSoft, the negotiated amount of startup money and ongoing fees requested by NCSoft, the number and skill level of the developers who may be interested and affordable, the game code itself and any limitations that future development may face as a result.

[billymailman]

The other thing that this effort does is enable us to form a formal entity and seek out other corporate partners. Running a business is no mean feat, and getting experts into the management positions - all the way up to a board of directors and CEO, etc. - is crucial.

I have business goals in mind for CoH, should this go through.

Nonetheless, I know that I, personally, wouldn't be willing to fun anything run by some random player; we need to combine together as much as possible our efforts, and the Titan Network folks are the best single banner we can band together under. If you want to help, contact TonyV, contact the other Titan folks, and help pitch in. Trying to raise money just to show NC that we're serious... is an honestly silly thing. At this point, between the various e-mail campaigns, including sending e-mails to the heads of NC itself, I think they've got a good idea that we're serious. If they really do want to know our money-gathering power, then there's the Dinner's On Us, where we raised a thousand dollars in just a few hours, in the middle of a workday, when people weren't likely to be at their computers.

We have a massive number of people already trying to do everything they can to keep this game alive. We need to unify our efforts, keep our voices loud and together, instead of drowning each other out. And if/when gathering money is the right thing, we need to have at least some semblance of a plan together, beyond just "1. Get Money. 2. ????. 3. Revived CoH!".

[Segev]

Oh, it absolutely requires more than 1, 2 ???, 3 profit!

I actually have tried to get in touch with TonyV, but have not heard back from him. I will do so again. My interest is in getting this thing running and in helping to see that the interests of all who contribute to it are represented. I know I am just some random guy to all of you; I have not been around here and had not had an interest as a player in years. My interest is business-related.

That said, I appreciate the suggestion to speak with TonyV and "the other titans." I have a lot of networking work to do, but I do agree, a unified front and voice is the way to go.

[Teege]

Yeah personally I think it'd go over better having Titan Network be behind any Kickstarter not only because of the name recognition, but they've been the group that stepped up to the plate to handle organizing our efforts from the start. And if I remember correctly Tony stated a while back that he was reluctant to start a Kickstarter until we had a viable, stable plan and reason in place. I'm not sure we're at that point yet, but as always it's something to keep in mind.

[CoH New Dawn Crowdfunder]

Yeah, I'm in support of the idea of players crowdfunding a purchase/revival, but honestly, I have no idea who you are, have no reason to trust you with my money, and have no idea if you've looked into the legal issues needed. For all I know, you're some random person looking to buy up the CoH IP and sit on it.

You're probably a very well-meaning player, who just doesn't want to see the game die, but now is NOT the time for something like this, and you're not the person to be running it. If/when the time does come, and the game does need us to pool money together to save it, we need to make damn sure that there's only one effort collecting money, and that it happens only once, so we don't spread ourselves thin. And by that time, we need to have a company formed, we need to have sought legal advice, and we need to know for a fact that NC is actually willing to sell the game. After all, they might well just see a revived CoH as a potential competitor to their games, and decide that killing it permanently is worth any bad PR.

Honestly, your heart's probably in the right place, but if we do this, we need to do it right. And I only really see that happening as part of a proper, official effort by the Titan Network, not a kickstarted effort by a player who hasn't thought it all through. Rest assured, this idea has been considered, just not moved forward on yet.

Great, a doomsayerr right off the bat. Didn't I say "this is a draft" and put "constructive advice" in there? Yes I did, and yet this is what you come out with.

Fine, here you go. For reference, this is my only post on the topic. I will not defend myself against baseless accusations. 

Ahem.

Allow me to point out that everything you said about me is a) ad hominem, and b) could just as easily apply to you all. Nothing about belonging to a web network gives you any credentials or qualifications to do this at all, I don't know who you are, you could easily steal all the money and run off like this was Eve Online, blah blah.

For my part, none of your concerns are in any way valid.

I am more than trustworthy, I am a corporate compliance professional. Ensuring corporate trustworthiness is my job description. I am paid to make sure they're not playing Enron in the back office, and moreover, that they're competent to manage the IT thereof so they don't cost investors money from screwups.

That right there makes me a top candidate for this job. But I am also as right a person as any to do this, because a) anyone has the right to do it, and b) I am doing it. If you don't want to be a part of it, that's your choice. I however am willing to collaborate with anyone who has the same goal. The worst thing we could do is divide our efforts.

Lastly, nothing I posted said anything about "buying" anything. NCSoft does not sell its former games, and even if they were to, we're not talking small change here. I would estimate 10 million as the ante here. It is possible to Kickstarter that, BUT - not likely.

IMO, my way has the best chance to succeed for everyone.

As for use of funding, the money raised from this Kickstarter will be used to start a non-profit/not-for-profit entity, get over the sunsetting, enable us to build a rocking player-developer collaboration system, and pad out payroll for development / operations.

And, I have made provisions for failure of the effort. Did you even read that far? Allow me to quote from the current draft:

>>
PLEASE READ - IF THE NEW DAWN PROPOSAL DOESN'T WORK OUT

I hate to think it, but there is the possibility that even with enough player support, we may not be able to save the City of Heroes MMO for reasons beyond our control. For instance, NCSoft may not accept a player-driven proposal, or may perceive even more value from a complete shutdown of the game.

But even if our New Dawn proposal does not succeed, your support will be honored as best we can. Here's how.

Should the New Dawn proposal fail, you will be able to choose from one or more of the following reward options on the website:

    Fulfillment of one or more of your item rewards
    Adding your funding to a not-for-profit entity started by us to create a true successor to CoH
    A refund of the unexpended amount of your pledge

While this crowdfunding platform specifies a "no guarantees" approach, these guarantees will be written into the Terms of Service of the CohNewDawn.org website. (Terms of Service are a legal contract, so we can use them in reverse to create a contractual guarantee from us to you. So once you have created a website account and accepted the Terms of Service, your choices for the disposition of your funding are legal and enforceable without involving the crowdfunding platform in any way. Clever, aren't we :) ).

Any costs incurred for services and expenses will be shared by everyone in proportion to your pledge amount. I doubt that the amount will be significant for anyone, even those who pledge the minimum amount.
>>
End response.

Like I said, only post on the subject. Back to doing positive things. Got a website to set up, a proposal to NCSoft to polish, etc.

[Segev]

Can't hurt to have the Kickstarter structure set up, at least, so that if Titan goes with supporting it, all that really needs to be done is a couple minor edits and "submit" being pressed.

Still, I need to talk to Tony. So I'll pm him again this evening, and hope he sees it this time. ^^;

Because you're right; Titan seems to have the reputation and name recognition, which will give much-needed weight to any efforts along these lines. While I'm all too happy to help in organizing, building, contacting, and even trying to pull in what resources I have, I do not have Mr. V's clout in this realm nor his experience with this community, so he sounds like the man to whom to bring the plan.

Now, in trying to build that "viable, stable plan," I feel much more competent, and am eager to seek out the other experts that will be needed to coagulate it.

[CoH New Dawn Crowdfunder]

I don't have time at the moment to read the proposal (hoping to do so later), but ...two really critical suggestions for you.

First, contact TonyV before continuing on with this.  Once money becomes involved, we get basically one shot at this sort of thing, and it's critical that everyone be on board with the same effort, rather than having one person start it off on his own, no matter how well-intentioned he is.

Second, read through the Legal Considerations thread, especially the earlier part, where other people and I discuss what "the rights to CoH" are and what would need to happen for an entity to buy them to be created.

Thanks Ol. I did read the thread earlier. I'll contact TonyV and see what the deal is. I scanned the forums and saw nothing about any efforts underway (I guess Plan Z is it? but I can't really tell) hence my approach here.

[CoH New Dawn Crowdfunder]

I had actually posted a similar idea last night, and have the project half-underway, but now I cannot find the post I made. I thought it was #118 in the "contact NCSoft directly" thread.

I am, admittedly, away from my computer that has access to the email to which my account on this forum is connected. Perhaps it was deleted and the notification is waiting for me at home. I do not know why it would have been.

The obstacles I was asking for aid with are similar to yours, and included a list of possible reward incentives. I should have the post still in my browser at home and will repost it here. Perhaps we can collaborate on this.

I firmly believe that the best way to get NCSoft's attention and save this game for its fans is to show that the fans will put the money and effort together to fund a bid for the game. Petitions are wonderful, but companies care about profits more than almost anything else, and if they've made a business decision that they no longer wish to invest the time, energy, and money into this, then the approach proposed in this thread is the best chance of getting attention.

I can't look at the proposal here, but I will do so this evening.

Collaboration will definitely be superior to competition; the goal is to raise the money, not to split it apart.

As for your concerns: Kickstarter expressly forbids money to "start a business" because that's an ongoing proposal. There's not "finish" date. The project, as I had outlined it, is (in very short form) to "buy CoH." That is a well-defined project with a definite completion. It is done when the new company has ownership of Paragon Studios, CoH/CoV, and all associated properties.

Actually running the business is not the project, any more than actually selling the games and other creative projects that Kickstarter has helped fund.

Please feel free to pm me; I will get back to you through here if I can, or this evening. I am pleased somebody else has thought of this, and I hope to be able to work with you on it so that more heads can get this thing off the ground.

Sounds great Segev. Are you also in contact with TonyV? If not, we should all get together to make sure things don't fall apart ;)

[CoH New Dawn Crowdfunder]

I did read (most of) the kickstarter proposal, and have the following two recommendations:

1) As others have said, make sure TonyV is aware of your interest in joining the Titan effort.  The proposal itself should come from within the Titan community at the right time, to get full player support and trust.

2) The actual wording of the proposal, and rewards offered, what the future development process can do (such as the level of player involvement and the new gameplay ideas set forth) all depend heavily on factors which are not yet known or decided.  For example - structure of the business entity that will buy/license the IP rights from NCSoft, the negotiated amount of startup money and ongoing fees requested by NCSoft, the number and skill level of the developers who may be interested and affordable, the game code itself and any limitations that future development may face as a result.

As for the player-developer interaction, I did trim out some of the explanation during edits for length, but I thought I had enough in there to make it clear - feature by feature description, discussion and voting system. I'll take a look at it again to make sure it's clear to everyone how we'll work together.

[Segev]

As I noted in a later post in this thread, I've not yet been able to get him to respond to me, but I will try again this evening.

I haven't yet read your proposal, but your second post on it makes me think we may have slightly conflicting ideas; we should probably take this to pms to discuss it further and see where we agree and where we differ. (After I've had a chance to get home this evening and read your proposal, I should have a better idea how we can work together and what goals we share, but my design is to seek full purchase of the game and all rights; that NCSoft apparently "doesn't do this" is discouraging, but there's a first time for everything.)

[Ampithere]

I'm strongly opposed to any funding effort that isn't directly coordinated by TonyV and the Titan Network. They have been leading all other efforts so far, and have provided indications that they will support those of us who wish to build a new home in the worst case scenario through the creation of "Plan Z."

I think a crowdfunding effort right now is poorly timed - especially one that divides the community.

You are probably well meaning OP, but your efforts at this time could actively undermine our chances of saving the game. Paragon Studios still appears to be negotiating with NCSoft, and we have just recently gotten NCSoft to acknowledge our existence with the email campaign. We are making progress. Please don't diverge from the group and split our efforts. When the time comes for a crowdfunding project, Tony will tell us and Tony will run it. A perfect example is the Dinner's On Us campaign he ran.

Moreover, the tone of your posts indicates to me that you may not be fully aware of what efforts already are underway or completed. You seem to have only recently discovered the shutdown and made an immediate jump to crowdfunding. I apologize if that's incorrect, but it is the impression you have given me.

Whether you like it or not, we have literally no reason to trust you with our money or with the delicate negotiations this would entail. Tony has done an excellent job leading us so far, and I plan to stick with him.

[Osborn]

Is this even a real thing, or is this some guy asking me for my money and account name/password sort of thing, scamming people?

[Ampithere]

Is this even a real thing, or is this some guy asking me for my money and account name/password sort of thing, scamming people?

Or a Nemesis plot by NCSoft to split up the group and take our steam away?

We don't know, and honestly I suggest this effort be ignored. When it's time for this, TONY WILL START A CROWDFUNDING EFFORT. Whether that time comes or not, it certainly won't be so soon as this.

[Osborn]

Or a Nemesis plot by NCSoft to split up the group and take our steam away?

We don't know, and honestly I suggest this effort be ignored. When it's time for this, TONY WILL START A CROWDFUNDING EFFORT. Whether that time comes or not, it certainly won't be so soon as this.

Yeah, I guess I'm a bit wary of anybody's name who's like "TOTALLY LEGIT KICKSTARTER MAN".