City of Heroes - New Dawn Kickstarter project is drafted and can be previewed

[TonyV]

*raises hand...

I might have talked to TonyV once or twice...

Like others have said in this thread, I think your heart's in the right place, but I think this is premature.  We have definitely talked about crowd funding, but this is a medium-term activity.  Right now, we are focusing on more optimal solutions that involve getting City of Heroes transferred into the hands of another development studio and/or publisher.  IF those plans fall through, then we will continue down the list of options, which includes the possibility of crowd funding some sort of development effort to either reverse engineer and recreate City of Heroes (minus any IP rights we are unable to obtain) or development of a new game.

These options are further down in our priority list for two main reasons:  First, we have a lot more time to consider and discuss these options, whereas getting City of Heroes in the hands of, for example, the former staff of Paragon Studios needs to happen now if it can happen at all.  Second, the time and costs to develop a new game from scratch are extremely intensive.  The original City of Heroes took something like four years (maybe longer) to develop, and that was just for the very first VERY scaled down version compared to today.  Today's version has been under continuous development for over TEN years.  If another game is to be developed, we'd be looking at a 2017 release date and millions of dollars, and even that might be optimistic.  I'm not saying that it won't happen, but I am saying that we need a lot more of our ducks in a row before we even consider any kind of crowd funding.

Also, I've looked into Kickstarter specifically, and I do not believe that this project would be approved.  I could be wrong, but after having read the guidelines, this doesn't sound like a project to me.  I'm almost positive that stated goal of "Let's obtain the rights to operate the City of Heroes MMO ourselves" would cause it to be rejected.  I'm not trying to be negative, but the only way I think this would get off the ground is if we use Kickstarter to propose an entirely new game.  Even then, I think we would have to do some initial prep work have having developers, artists, and writers ready to get started on it to ensure any chance of success.  If we do launch a crowd funding effort, unless it's a totally new game, I think we'll probably go with another more general crowd funding site like IndieGogo.

The reason I haven't put any kind of crowd funding effort together so far is because we are currently going through our list of options in a methodical manner.  Frankly, we don't even know what the goal of our crowd funding effort will be until we get further down the list.  Will Paragon Studios need a crowd funding effort to help them acquire the game?  That's extremely different from a crowd funding effort to create a spiritual successor to City of Heroes.  By holding off until we have more information, we risk confusing people and looking like we don't have a plan when, in fact, we do.

I don't want to stop members of the community from kicking off their efforts; neither TonyV nor the Titan Network have a monopoly on community efforts to save the game.  However, we can't really encourage this right now, and I think we need to wait before starting such an effort.

[Segev]

Or a Nemesis plot by NCSoft to split up the group and take our steam away?

We don't know, and honestly I suggest this effort be ignored. When it's time for this, TONY WILL START A CROWDFUNDING EFFORT. Whether that time comes or not, it certainly won't be so soon as this.

Even Nemesis wants to save CoH; after all, he keeps his stuff there.

</light hearted tone>

[Teege]

"Wut?"

[Ampithere]

Even Nemesis wants to save CoH; after all, he keeps his stuff there.

</light hearted tone>

Hmm...perhaps he can be recruited to "acquire" CoH. 

[Kheprera]

No offense to the OP, but I'm with the others here.  The crowdfunding idea has already been tossed around and the idea of an MMO being set up as a non-profit sets my IRS Sonar on full alert.

I'll back TonyV.

[jacknomind]

Yeah, I guess I'm a bit wary of anybody's name who's like "TOTALLY LEGIT KICKSTARTER MAN".

Aww, but how can you dispute something like,

I am more than trustworthy, I am a corporate compliance professional. Ensuring corporate trustworthiness is my job description.

[Segev]

Tony,

Before I did anything else, I looked at Kickstarter's requirements and was concerned with that element. I messaged them to ask if it was viable, and the response was non-negative. It was not whole-heartedly positive, but they did not indicate that it was something unworth at least submitting for approval.

I would like to speak with you and others involved in the various efforts you have underway on these "optimal solutions." The goal of getting it into another studio's hands sounds exactly liek what I'm trying to do; I just happen to want that "other studio" to be a wholly-purchased Paragon Studios owned by a company whose primary purpose is to keep the game going. I think that a new one wherein trusted people with an interest in delivering on promises to the community is the best way to achieve this, since anything else can put us right back here next year if another studio makes a business decision like NCSoft's.

The only requirement of a company formed expressly for this purpose would be that it make more money than it costs to run, because, well, it has to or the game cannot survive, period.

Anyway, please either pm me or look for a pm from me this evening; I would like to get a bit more involved with this effort on an organizational and informational level.

Thanks,
Segev Stormlord

[Osborn]

You might not say you have a monopoly on leading this effort, but I honestly wish you did have a monopoly on organizing the effort, considering that the idea of doing Plan A, then Plan B, then Plan C is a lot better than "All 100,000 of us throw 10 dollars into 100,000 separate Kickstarters, oh wait that's called what already exists" and dividing up our attention and focus.

That and the fact you've been so far extremely capable in your ability to handle this situation as well as being capable of working with Paragon Studios so far gives me confidence you'll continue to be able to do so.

I'm 100% absolutely certain that if I didn't see all this work centralized in one area (and good work being done at that), I would had assumed I was the only one that cared about the game and already moved on.

Aww, but how can you dispute something like,

Oh well if he says he's totally legit then complaint rescinded I guess because there's absolutely no way somebody painted free candy on a van and didn't mean it.

[laufeyjarson]

I'm strongly opposed to any funding effort that isn't directly coordinated by TonyV and the Titan Network. They have been leading all other efforts so far, and have provided indications that they will support those of us who wish to build a new home in the worst case scenario through the creation of "Plan Z."

I think a crowdfunding effort right now is poorly timed - especially one that divides the community.

You are probably well meaning OP, but your efforts at this time could actively undermine our chances of saving the game. Paragon Studios still appears to be negotiating with NCSoft, and we have just recently gotten NCSoft to acknowledge our existence with the email campaign. We are making progress. Please don't diverge from the group and split our efforts. When the time comes for a crowdfunding project, Tony will tell us and Tony will run it. A perfect example is the Dinner's On Us campaign he ran.

Moreover, the tone of your posts indicates to me that you may not be fully aware of what efforts already are underway or completed. You seem to have only recently discovered the shutdown and made an immediate jump to crowdfunding. I apologize if that's incorrect, but it is the impression you have given me.

Whether you like it or not, we have literally no reason to trust you with our money or with the delicate negotiations this would entail. Tony has done an excellent job leading us so far, and I plan to stick with him.

Pretty much this.

Right now, we have your word that you're a trustworthy.  You've not been involved in the discussions, have not shared any information we could verify, and have come in and asked for money.

Let's compare for a moment to TonyV: using his real name, given out a phone number, e-mail address, and Skype contact repeatedly.  I don't know him either, but between the two presentations of the personality, he's done a lot more to earn my trust.

Secondly, there's been lots of people saying, "Don't break up the momentum into smaller groups."  A second or premature crowdfunding issue will do exactly that.  Please don't.  Please work with TonyV.  (He hasn't gotten back to you?  Give him 24 hours.  I've never had any message to him ignored, and usually responded much more quickly than that.)

Please take the time to read what we've already discussed and to join the current effort instead of just jumping in and trying to start your own.  That really won't help.

And no, I haven't read your proposal; I'm at work, and can't take the time.  I think Kickstarter is probably the wrong crowdfunding provider, and you'd have known the reasons why if you'd done your homework here before starting out.  It's got the cachet and name recognition, but there are plenty of other tools to do just that which may be a much better fit for what we may need.  And we don't know what we need until we get some response.

If you don't even know what "Plan Z" is, how can you reasonably expect to fund it?

[downix]

The main concern I have here is if the CoH dev team is in negotiations, such a project would increase the price by creating an inadvertant bidding war.

[Victoria Victrix]

Before I trust ANYONE coming on and posting as "trust me I am a professional" I want your real name, address, phone number, CV, and business history. 

Sorry, buddy, but my money stays in my pocket, and my interest and energy are going to other efforts, until I know who you really are and what your credentials are.

[Segev]

Downix raises a good point. I honestly would like to see Paragon Studios working WITH whatever efforts there were. They will have a lot of the business-side expertise we would need anyway.

As for "not for profit," I do not support that, personally. It's doomed to failure, because the laws surrounding not-for-profits are insane and discourage making enough to sustain yourself. We need this to be self-sustaining.


As for real names and such...I put my linkedIn on another post, but it seems to have vanished. I'll get back with that stuff after discussing with TonyV in more depth.

(I'm not the OP; he just had a similar-looking idea to mine, so I'm posting in this thread to discuss it.)

[Osborn]

Before I trust ANYONE coming on and posting as "trust me I am a professional" I want your real name, address, phone number, CV, and business history. 

Sorry, buddy, but my money stays in my pocket, and my interest and energy are going to other efforts, until I know who you really are and what your credentials are.

But he already told us his totally legit name of David

aka New Dawn Crowdfunder, Virtue Server, L1 Defender, Empathy / Sonic

aka TeraBolt, Virtue Server, L35 Electricity / Electricity Blaster

I mean he got to level 35 and everything.

Edit: I love that level 1 guy being mentioned there, I mean you could at least punch the Giant Shivan twice and pop to level 2.

[Segev]

Okay, seriously, picking on the OP is a bit uncalled-for. People are leery of trusting "some guy on the internet" with their money, and have encouraged him to speak with Tony. Those are valid points. Further mockery is derailing an otherwise-serious (if sometimes misguided) discussion, and really doesn't help any of our goals.

[TonyV]

Guys, this thread is getting really nonconstructive really fast.  I just want to say again that I don't doubt the OP's intentions or his trustworthiness, but this is just a little over the horizon for us and I too feel like he's being picked on unnecessarily for trying to help the game.  Whether you agree with what he's doing or not, please recognize that we're all on the same team.  I'm going to take it off to PMs to talk to him and lock the thread.