New efforts!

[Arcana]

I wouldn't consider any of these 'core' aspects of the game.

Subtract all of that and you'd be playing Zork.

[Aggelakis]

I wouldn't consider any of these 'core' aspects of the game.

The game, at launch, was really awful in terms of playing it. People kept playing it because it was a novelty, totally unique in the MMO field, and promised to get better. That it did get better is a testament to our developers, but it wasn't a guarantee. Probably a good 75% of that list is required to have a legitimate late-age (e.g. last couple years available, as opposed to late-game, e.g. high level) City experience. Shave off another 25% of the list and you'd get a reasonable facsimile but no one would call it City. Get rid of the entire list and chances are really good that people playing at the end would not play that particular version.

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

The game, at launch, was really awful in terms of playing it. People kept playing it because it was a novelty, totally unique in the MMO field, and promised to get better. That it did get better is a testament to our developers, but it wasn't a guarantee. Probably a good 75% of that list is required to have a legitimate late-age (e.g. last couple years available, as opposed to late-game, e.g. high level) City experience. Shave off another 25% of the list and you'd get a reasonable facsimile but no one would call it City. Get rid of the entire list and chances are really good that people playing at the end would not play that particular version.

i concur. CoH was my first MMO and i started playing a few weeks after launch, so by the time i really started getting the hang of the game Issue 1 was on the test server. By the time i started delving into combat mechanics and reading up on them on the forums Issue 2 was on its way. For me that was quite lucky because i can guarantee that if the game had stayed in its launch state during that interval i probably would've dropped it shortly after from boredom and annoyance. Perhaps i'm easy to please, but i came to embrace every major, enduring change to the game even if i didn't necessarily think they were all the best solution or choice. Even ED, at least in part because it put some challenge back into the game, although most updates/issues were experienced as a holistic event, so i expect that CoV, and all the additions that came with it, significantly cushioned the impact of ED for me.


That and teaming with players who considered pushing the limits of what characters could do and finding ways to overcome every new challenge the goal of playing CoH made ED more of a minor challenge to work around than anything else. We were still ROFLstomping almost all of the content after ED went live with a few build tweaks anyway. Playing with people who approached everything as a "hold my beer and watch this" moment made even the short-lived Boss/AV buff more of a source of amusement than frustration.


That said, the last two years of CoH were the ones where i felt the devs had finally gotten it mostly right. My biggest regret is never having the chance to experience i24 on the live servers.

[Noyjitat]

You left out one of the big ones, Enhancement Diversification.  Given how much that affected the way people built their characters, pre-I6 and post-I6 really are different games (to say nothing of pre-ED and post-IOs).

Many are core to I23, which is what we're all hoping to get back.  I won't lie, I wouldn't be thoroughly disappointed to get the launch game back (especially since I started playing in I5, so it would still be a novelty to me), but I definitely wouldn't get nearly as much enjoyment out of it.  CoH would not have survived without many of these changes, so in that sense they certainly are core features.

I really try to avoid ignoring people on forums and in chat rooms if at all possible because it usually results in a discontinuous experience (i.e., missing parts of a conversation) that is more disruptive than the blockee is annoying.  In the case of forums though it's actually often the opposite situation, as the blockee often gets quoted by other people anyway.  A person generally needs to be either extremely obnoxious or actively harassing me in order to get blocked.

Actually quite a lot of them.  Really very a lot.  DLC doesn't even make sense for some games.

What you describe has become more common of course, and in some situations game companies do take advantage of it.  But your example (which I'm not quoting for brevity's sake) of Mario 64 isn't analogous, because once you beat Super Mario 64 that was it.  In order to add, say, a 4-player game mode, the game had to be re-released with that functionality, which guess what -- requires you to buy it again!  Same effect as DLC.  Expansions for PC games work the exact same way and have been sold for ages.

You're right that companies "baking in" paid DLC for their game releases is a problem, but it's far, far from universal, and in many cases allows a game to extend its shelf life.  A good example in my own experience is Goat Simulator (wait, where are you going, hear me out).  The first two game updates (Goat City and Goat MMO Simulator) were free, but the latter two (GoatZ and PAYDAY) are paid DLC...and I'm guessing they had to charge for them in order to justify their development.  Remember, game development isn't free, so there are legitimate cases for it.  If your argument is "it should just be part of the full game", well then, enjoy your higher game costs, because most of that time that's exactly what you'd be getting.

</END POST>

But the game wasn't re-released it was always a sequel. Sonic, sonic2 sonic 3, sonic and knuckles, Final fantasy 7, 8, mega man 1, 2 3, 4, 5, 6 and all of it's bazillion titles,  I can list tons of games. All were complete games with different bosses and stages and once your bought them that was it! If you run out of lives you don't have to buy more you just reload your save file enter or enter a password.  There was no pay 15$ to get this item it was already included with you 40 or 60$ purchase of an ENTIRE COMPLETE GAME.

[darkgob]

But the game wasn't re-released it was always a sequel. Sonic, sonic2 sonic 3, sonic and knuckles, Final fantasy 7, 8, mega man 1, 2 3, 4, 5, 6 and all of it's bazillion titles,  I can list tons of games. All were complete games with different bosses and stages and once your bought them that was it! If you run out of lives you don't have to buy more you just reload your save file enter or enter a password.  There was no pay 15$ to get this item it was already included with you 40 or 60$ purchase of an ENTIRE COMPLETE GAME.

Because you quoted my entire post that contained responses to several other posts, I'm not exactly sure which game you're referring to.  Mario 64?  That was essentially just a re-release I believe, I never played the 3DS version but I think all they really did is add in functionality to facilitate player switching and such, it was basically still the same game.  As for the rest, I'm honestly not sure what point you're trying to make.  You're referring to microtransactions now I think(?) and somehow implying that modern games no longer possess save file functionality???  You're all over the place here.  Can you maybe give me a concrete example of bad DLC for a specific game?

[MM3squints]

Can you maybe give me a concrete example of bad DLC for a specific game?

Elder Scroll 4 Oblivion. Horse Armor dlc for $2.50 at the time. How bad was that dlc? It has its own meme.

[darkgob]

Elder Scroll 4 Oblivion. Horse Armor dlc for $2.50 at the time. How bad was that dlc? It has its own meme.

That's pretty bad*, but not at all representative of the entirety of modern games.  Does anybody have any examples of (non-mobile) games where you have to pay for more lives, as Noyjitat described?

*Although tbqh having a meme is really a very low bar and should not be used as a meaningful measure of anything.

[avelworldcreator]

Just for the record I'm in VERY direct contact with Nate and I make sure not to bring the subject up or otherwise take advantage of the relationship. Given that I wrote Missing World Media's first IP and NDA agreements I'm kind of sensitive about that stuff. (I'm a CoT senior developer and one of the company's principle co-founders). I know it's frustrating but right now all we can do is wait. I, for one, want this to go through. There is stuff I'm sure ALL the development groups would love to do but can't due to legal risks (heck it's bad enough that we can't use the term "super hero" - thank you Marvel and DC!) But if it came to fruition would I abandon our project? No. Too much time, effort, and energy already invested to just drop everything. CoH/CoV was wonderful but even Paragon studios was aware that the engine was becoming too dated and were planning a successor - and they were chafing under the level cap. It's best to take what was done right, add to it, and move on. Would I love to play my old toons? Yes, I really wanted to take my level 50 toon and get every possible badge and enhancement I could but even if we get that IP I've still lost everything and probably forever.

Edit: Damn! Has it really been that long since I posted here? I need to fix my profile and sig!

[Azrael]

The game, at launch, was really awful in terms of playing it. People kept playing it because it was a novelty, totally unique in the MMO field, and promised to get better. That it did get better is a testament to our developers, but it wasn't a guarantee. Probably a good 75% of that list is required to have a legitimate late-age (e.g. last couple years available, as opposed to late-game, e.g. high level) City experience. Shave off another 25% of the list and you'd get a reasonable facsimile but no one would call it City. Get rid of the entire list and chances are really good that people playing at the end would not play that particular version.

I wasn't there at launch.  I'll blame myself for not keeping an eye on it after reading of it in a games magazine and also my Duo-Partner (who was in the Beta...) who kept it to himself until just after launch.  So while I don't have vivid memories of Issue 0 or 1.  I do remember the novelty of it.  It was fun.  Wandering around this virtual hero world.

Trying out the costume creator.  Trying out the different character types.  Negotiating the 'endless' zones without getting myself killed or pressed against a chain link fence.  Wandering around missions getting lost and yes, trying to find your way back out again.  Charging into colour coded mobs as a blaster or a MA scrapper and wondering why I'd face plant versus a mob of eg. anything. 

And for me, this is the 'core' game.  The interface, the costume creator, the 'types' you can roll, the zones, the mission content, yes, 'some' teaming (impeccably implemented), the immortal 'colour coded' combat (which was the bedrock of the game) and powers with the level ladder (Seemed 'tough' going at certain plateaus.  But I took it as it was at the time...)

It wasn't until Issue 2 that I had more of an idea of what was going on.  And knew comfortably where the 'shops' where to 'buy' TOs, DOs and eventually the SOs.  Even trying some tactics with outdoor mob sweeps.

I didn't get my 1st L50 after just after ED (which had 'broken' my En/En blaster.)

After that?  You could roll an 'Epic' type and have an individual storyline.  (A clue there in terms of how they could have 'built' on the 'core' of the game.)

...and after your 2nd L50?  Altitis?  Yes.  Do it with a tank.  Do it with a Controller or Defender or Scrapper.  Try out the myriad power build combos.  etc.

Ie.  You could repeat the 'core' of the game.

I'd say that was City of Heroes problem then and at closure.

The 'novelty' of it could wear thin.  (Fun in the same way eating burgers and chocolate can be 'fun' for a while.)  That's why some (myself included) would take a break (but keep our account running) and try other things (I didn't but my Duo Partner did.)  And I don't think anything on Arcana's list of naval gazing additions helped expand the player base by the Developers who seemed blinded to how to add to the 'Core' of the game.

And that's why many left.  When they'd realised CoV was 'more of the same' game the 'game' was up.  Sure, the die hards stayed right until the end.  However, many had bolted out the stable doors over to Guild Wars 2 or they now play 'City of Tanks.'  A substantially amount of players had got 'bored' of the 'narrative.'  (Another clue?)

Subtract all of that and

*snip and I wouldn't really miss any of them.  They could have put their efforts into expanding the 'Core' of the game.  Not sideways efforts such as CoV, Going Rogue and the fractured Incarnate system which, funnily enough, didn't save the game.

I was very amused by 'the list.'  The amount of stuff on that didn't move the 'core' game forwards.  I don't see the 'narrative' in any of those additions.  Save for one.  The one thing off your list, LUA scripting, I guess was being implemented just before the game ran out of time.  Perhaps this could have been used to make missions more interesting instead of 'rinse and repeat' 'same old.' 

Familiarity brings contempt?  Perhaps.  It was like an 'old friend' by the end. 

Azrael.

PS.  *(I guess the 'core' of the game was pretty good to have lasted 8 years!  Pick up and play heaven.)

PPS.  For the record...

- The purple patch (which didn't exist at launch)
- multiple builds (meh.)
- Icon costume editing (Live without it.)
- the arena  (Never tried it.  Couldn't see the point.)
- supergroup bases  (Little return for the amount of work devoted to it by developers and players alike.)
- global chat (I liked 'Tell, Local and Team' chat.  Didn't bother with the rest.)
- sidekicking system (Used it 'occasionally.')
- exemplar system - Rarely.
- mastermind pet controls - I tried a mastermind in the last year of the game.
- Issue 7 critter accuracy scaling - ok.  I just remember being hit before Issue 4 and after Issue 4.
- The Invention system - For nerdy nerds noodling.  I could live without it.  Though I'll give props to your Turbo Charge En/En blaster.  I only got into this by the last year or so.  It wasn't part of the 'core' game so I never bothered with it.  'Nice' but I could have lived without it.  My 'nerd headed' Duo-Partner liked it.  He showed it to me.  He explained it to me.  Many.  Many times.  However, I couldn't see the point.  It wasn't very intuitive.  It was 'hard' work and worlds away from the 'pick up and play' nature of the game.  A real, brain aching time sink.  All that 'crafting'...  Meh.  Why not just have more expensive plain Jane IO sets which could balance your power sets with a bonus.  A standard set for each archetype to address 'weaknesses.'  Done.  Sorted. 
- The player markets - Superheroes play the stock market.  Sure, it made earning coin (influence) without respeccing 'dead' enhancements on a respec mission easier.  Made the game less challenging.
- dynamic zone events - boring and overblown most of the time.  I couldn't wait until they were over.  I was busy seeing contacts and getting into missions.
- newspaper style mission queues - I did like this.  An attempt at a 'hero' style of narrative...  It was my favourite way of doing missions in the end...
- day job system - I suppose it was an 'attempt' at adding to the narrative.  But far too superficial.  Didn't really did into the the narrative core of the game.
- server transfer - 'Nice' but not essential.
- power appearance customisation - I really wanted this.  Rarely used it.
- weapon customisation - likewise.
- dynamically switchable costume slots - 'Nice' but not essential.
- PvP diminishing return mechanics - PVP.  Blurgh.*  'Running around like headless chickens.'  My Duo-Partner liked it.  I loathed it.
- The mission architect - An 'auto' mission building button/random generator (like on costumes) might have helped people who struggle with 'narrative.'  Could have been implemented better to add to the game's 'narrative'.  A massive missed opportunity to involve the developers and community to build out narrative in the CoH Paragon City world, create new mission tiles, tailored mission arcs to add L50 'narrative diversification' for individually archetypes.  *See my Peacebringer 'post 50' content hint.
- mission phasing - *looks blank.
- turnstile mission queues - *looks blank.
- The veteran reward system - Fluff.
- ouroboros flashback - Very, very clever.  But why not just roll an alt and play it again? :P
- The incarnate system - Design disaster.  Nothing like CoH at all.  Dreadful, drill deep interface.  Some nice power ideas.  '+' level shift nerd smack talk.  Pick up and play?  Hell to play more like.  Where was the solo content?  One or 'two' nice solo arcs.  Some nice mission design.  But not nearly enough.  Emphasis on 'Legion of Superhero' grind 'task force' battles.  Overblown.  Terribly implemented.  An alpha slot.  Nice idea to fill the 'hole' in your characters De-buff, Shields, -res etc.  But they could have used the standard interface for all that.  After I'd wrapped my head around the 'unnecessarily' complicated IOs, they bolt on this train wreck interface.  Why not use the standard interface?  Like they did for Epics, remember?  Terrible disconnect to the 'pick up and play' core of the game.  If there was one thing I could tear out the game and replace it would be this.  A proper L50-60 End Game along the 'ITF' with IOs rewarded (superior Task Forces for 'built out heroes...) lines with loads of Narrative Solo content to use those...shiny L40-50 too-expensive to buy' IO enhancements on.  And/or just give IOs for solo content arcs.  That way you have a point to being a 'superior' hero.  Sound like some of the Incarnates intentions?  Noble intentions.  Sure.  Why not.  Let's give the 'incarnate' system (a great idea to have 'Statesman' like uber Hero level of power) a crumb to that horrible 'end game'.  But nothing that couldn't have been done far better with the standard game interface.  We already had the best MMO interface in the game and sound Task Forces.  Why waste time trying to fix something that didn't need fixing?  The 'alpha' slot and the tiers could have been slotted using the standard interface.  An addition section below the 'Epic' stuff.  A Hamidon or basic IO variant idea.  Slots for the various tiers.  Or just as addition 'Epic' or auxiliary style power pools.  Poor developer leadership on this one.
- The Paragon Market - Superheroes meet 'Wall Street.'  *Looks at the sky.  While they 'pick pocket' the villains for loot.
- LUA scripting engine - Ah.  Something narrative...what took so long...
- leveling auto-inspirations - Nice to float your boat and pop your cork.  But I lived an died without it.

The one thing left off that list?  Ultra Mode.  How the game looked was core of the game.  But the race was on.  They were behind.  And they shiny crowd had moved on a while back.  'Too late.'

The other thing off your list?  The ITF.  Paragon Studio's finest hour.  A glowing testament to what could be done by the developers.  Cleaner level design.  Superior narrative.  Great battery of gameplay using the 'core' aspects of the game.  The interface.  The archetypes.  The combat.  The teaming.  The graphics (they'd clearly improved their tech' for that...)  All using the game's standard 'pick up and play' interface...(not some 'if we were designing City of Heroes 2' incarnate nerd-i-face.)  For me, they saw the light too late.  But this was their true swan song.

I look at that list and wonder what the developers were doing to the 'Core' of the game in 8 years.  It might be simplistic to say big investments in CoV, Going Rogue didn't pay off in player base retention but along with 'the list' you have a lot of hard work that didn't take the game 'forward.' 

My point?  If Paragon have done more work of the caliber of 'ITF' and diversified content (not just new zones...but filling out different paths amongst the established zones...) including solo narrative for all archetypes upto and post L50 as had been shown by the 'promise' of the PB and WS arcs...broke their necks to get their tech together for the core of the game sooner...and been more aggressive with incorporating the archetypes from CoV (the one thing they did right with that expansion...fixing the 'flawed' archetypes of CoH...) then the 'core' of the game would have been better served.

That added to the promise of LUA...

(Instead of a naval gazing list of things that only seemed to appeal to either a vocal or hard core sub-section of the casual pick up and play 'player base.')

[Brigadine]

If any of you are looking for a new game 'naval action' just went in to early access on steam. Oh sweet lord, its eve online meets pirates of the Caribbean...

[Hagoroth]

Can you maybe give me a concrete example of bad DLC for a specific game?

I don't know if you ever played the latest Tropico 4(it's kinda like a city builder). But they caught a lot of crap for releasing DLC after the game came out that was essentially 1 factory building that was stripped from the game before release. They got caught because all the DLC was on the original CD when it was shipped, it just had locked codes until you purchased it for 10$ a piece. Each DLC came with 1 mission map, 1 building and 1 costume for your dictator. It was pretty bad.

[Shibboleth]

For those of you not there in the early days you missed the joys of the late game grind (so bad that a lot of people made no push for max level characters) and the joy of running out of missions. The game at close was different in tons of ways from the early game. Heck, the reactor mission in Terra Volta when introduced wasn't  just failable, you actually had to have a pretty good team to stand a chance at completing it (making it perversely difficult for people who needed a respec to get one).

So to all the people saying how miserable all other modern games are, I have to wonder when CoH became playable, because what was there at first was significantly different from what was there at the end.

Edit: Stupid auto correct

[Azrael]

Just for the record I'm in VERY direct contact with Nate and I make sure not to bring the subject up or otherwise take advantage of the relationship. Given that I wrote Missing World Media's first IP and NDA agreements I'm kind of sensitive about that stuff. (I'm a CoT senior developer and one of the company's principle co-founders). I know it's frustrating but right now all we can do is wait. I, for one, want this to go through. There is stuff I'm sure ALL the development groups would love to do but can't due to legal risks (heck it's bad enough that we can't use the term "super hero" - thank you Marvel and DC!) But if it came to fruition would I abandon our project? No. Too much time, effort, and energy already invested to just drop everything.

Yes.  We all want it to go through.  *fingers crossed and heaps more patience.  All we can do is wait.  Better that than a definite 'no' or oblivion of having no hope at all.  We have Paragon Chat in the meantime which has just added Ninja Run and SuperJump! :D

As for not being able to use the term 'super hero' - let Marvel and DC 'have it.'  What they going to do next?  Trademark the generic term 'hero'?  Copyright all Greek Mythology?

CoH/CoV was wonderful but even Paragon studios was aware that the engine was becoming too dated and were planning a successor - and they were chafing under the level cap. It's best to take what was done right, add to it, and move on. Would I love to play my old toons? Yes, I really wanted to take my level 50 toon and get every possible badge and enhancement I could but even if we get that IP I've still lost everything and probably forever.

I'm sure they were chafing under the level cap.  But I did like the way, successfully or not, they pushed against the engine's 'constraints'.  (I loved the ITF and Ultra Mode...) And they were picking up a head of steam regarding the game's development just before closure.  A shame we didn't get Issue 24.  That's the blaster in me talking. 

As for City of Titans or any successor.

Map.  Interface.  Combat.  Zones.  Chat.  Teaming.  City of Heroes set the bench very high.  8 years of pick up and play.

They get points for trying to pick up the torch and being creative.  It's constructive.  As is the attempt to try and buy the CoH ip and issue 23.

Azrael.

PS. 

Heck, the reactor mission in Terra Volta when introduced wasn't  just failable, you actually had to have a pretty good team to stand a chance at completing it (making it perversely difficult for people who needed a respectable to get one).

So to all the people saying how miserable all other modern games are, I have to wonder when CoH became playable, because what was there at first was significantly different from what was there at the end.

It was sublimely playable the moment I started playing it.  The combat was 'canon.'  I didn't view 'finding me way out of the mission' as a problem.  The addition of rag doll mechanism was nice but I liked it just as much before.  The game didn't get any more playable with the addition of PVP or Arena or Vet perks.

The game DID get more playable with the addition of CoV archetypes or the 'combo' system with the dual blade scrapper.

Sure, they 'humanised' the Hollows and they 'smoothed' off the levelling.  But it didn't make the game more(!) playable to me.  Just 'easier.'

As for 'Volta' respect.  Yes.  You needed a 'good' team to get your respect.  A balanced one.  Which was part of the challenge.  There were quite a few 2 dimensional teams trying to 'wing and a prayer' it.  And they failed.  I was on one or two of those.  (No jokes, please.)  The sting of failure made you try harder 'next' time... ;)

I remember getting my first L50 and thinking, 'What do I do now?'  (badge hunting?  Roll a PB?)  I do recall it took getting on a 'this is how we roll' team.  Had a good tank, an excellent healer, a scrapper with a death wish, a blaster who thought he could tank (that would be me...) and...a couple of others.  Good times.  Challenging.  Took some doing getting to L50 in the early days.  But fun.

Getting to L50 was much easier in the latter days of the game...

[Shibboleth]

It was sublimely playable the moment I started playing it.  The combat was 'canon.'  I didn't view 'finding me way out of the mission' as a problem.  The addition of rag doll mechanism was nice but I liked it just as much before.  The game didn't get any more playable with the addition of PVP or Arena or Vet perks.

The game DID get more playable with the addition of CoV archetypes or the 'combo' system with the dual blade scrapper.

Sure, they 'humanised' the Hollows and they 'smoothed' off the levelling.  But it didn't make the game more(!) playable to me.  Just 'easier.'

As for 'Volta' respect.  Yes.  You needed a 'good' team to get your respect.  A balanced one.  Which was part of the challenge.  There were quite a few 2 dimensional teams trying to 'wing and a prayer' it.  And they failed.  I was on one or two of those.  (No jokes, please.)  The sting of failure made you try harder 'next' time... ;)

One of the last times I was there (I liked stockpiling respecs, even if I had no plans to use one) was on a Tanker Tuesday with a team of nothing but Tankers. That would probably have been a bad idea originally.

I remember getting my first L50 and thinking, 'What do I do now?'  (badge hunting?  Roll a PB?)  I do recall it took getting on a 'this is how we roll' team.  Had a good tank, an excellent healer, a scrapper with a death wish, a blaster who thought he could tank (that would be me...) and...a couple of others.  Good times.  Challenging.  Took some doing getting to L50 in the early days.  But fun.

Getting to L50 was much easier in the latter days of the game...

Easier than 40 at release.

[MM3squints]

That's pretty bad*, but not at all representative of the entirety of modern games.  Does anybody have any examples of (non-mobile) games where you have to pay for more lives, as Noyjitat described?

*Although tbqh having a meme is really a very low bar and should not be used as a meaningful measure of anything.

While not the life itself (eg to play the game) is not an issue, H1Z1 business model is essentially pay to win. You need to pay a micro transaction to get an air drop in which you may or may not even get because if someone else intercepts the package (because the game will alert everyone a airdrop will be coming) before you, your are SOL. The airdrops gives military grade weaponry, while everyone else is using crud bow and arrows. Again you technically can play the game, but once someone gets the airdrop it pretty much turns into the guy with the airdrop pickup rolling their face on the keyboard and win.

[Soul Resonance]

I don't think it's as black and white as "one signature".  Also if you dislike every other game so much why would you want them to STOP trying to get the only game you like back.  That would just make it a definite "No" instead of a possible "No".  So you don't have to live with the suspense or ambiguity of getting the game back anymore.  Instead you have to live with knowing that the last and closest attempt so far was abandoned because of.....impatience?

Honestly I think some of this forum really needs to cut Nate some slack.  He doesn't have to be doing this, and if I were him quitting would have crossed my mind at several different point's.  But this isn't about one person its about a community of people.   He doesn't owe us anything, and we aren't entitled to anything.  What he is doing is a personal project on his own time.  The fact anyone say's anything other then "Thank's for trying, keep up the good fight" is baffling to me.  Same goes to Iron Wolf.

If I could give you a medal made out of your favorite cookies.. :P

[Vee]

Subtract all of that and you'd be playing Zork.

So coh was too simple at first but it grue on you?

[avelworldcreator]

As for City of Titans or any successor.

Map.  Interface.  Combat.  Zones.  Chat.  Teaming.  City of Heroes set the bench very high.  8 years of pick up and play.

They get points for trying to pick up the torch and being creative.  It's constructive.  As is the attempt to try and buy the CoH ip and issue 23.

Azrael.

Thank you.

CoT's map is HUGE. 25kmx25km. I'm one of the people who's working on that.

Interface? I'm one of the lead people on that. If you check our forums and look at the draft designs of the color picker I designed you will see more than a nod to City of Heroes but "on steroids". We've dumped the color restrictions for one thing.

Combat... Wait and see.  ;)

Zones? Well, no "war walls". Zones may be virtually non-existent, but the city does have for game play purposes various districts and divisions.

Chat. I'm the guy designing the chat UI and the code. I also picked the protocol we'll be using (XMPP). In fact we already have fully functioning chat server that we have been using internally for our own communications for a year. You will see some new and old features in the chat system.

Teaming? Of course. And Supergroups too. Expect some improvements here.

[worldweary]

. CoH/CoV was wonderful but even Paragon studios was aware that the engine was becoming too dated and were planning a successor - and they were chafing under the level cap. It's best to take what was done right, add to it, and move on.

You say dated like it's a bad thing.There is a reason people like classic stuff.Classic novels,old cars and classic movies and music.New does not always mean better.I am glad we have modern medicine and technology and all that goes with it and because of that we can enjoy what has come before it.Good luck with your game but speaking for myself I'll stick with the older stuff rather than move on.

[Codewalker]

Paragon studios was aware that the engine was becoming too dated

*cough*Minecraft*cough*

There are tons of very successful games released in the last 10 years built on way, way worse engines than the COH one. Shiny isn't everything.