New efforts!

[BadWolf]

Now, it's happening on here: first with someone stating that I didn't have any "hope" for the game being revived because I was a skeptic, and then with someone completely misunderstanding that I wasn't talking about this effort (the one that was started in this thread), I was talking about reverse-engineer efforts. Now, suddenly I don't have any hope for this effort? Or any effort?

I understood perfectly that you weren't talking about this effort, but about SCORE's effort. But by your own admission, you have no idea who's involved, how much progress they've made, what assets they have at their disposal in terms of original code, or even when they started. Speculating in the absence of facts is foolish. Particularly when you are talking to people who are in a position to know more than you do. (I should clarify that this isn't me, it's the people in this thread who are involved with the effort.)

Now, I don't particularly care if you want to look foolish, but I felt like someone should let you know that to a disinterested observer, you're pretty much arguing from a position of ignorance with people who are arguing from a position of knowledge, and that's just never a good idea--especially when it doesn't freaking matter in any meaningful sense whether you're wrong or right. Nobody involved in SCORE is asking you for money, time, or any kind of commitment in any sense. Pretty much the first that I expect to hear about it, assuming other efforts don't pan out, is when people I know who play say to me, "Psst...private server at this IP, here's how to connect, don't pass it on." I, and the rest of the CoH community, lose nothing by SCORE's efforts. Why badmouth it? What on earth do you gain from badmouthing it? What on earth do you lose by letting them do their thing without bugging them about it? That's what I don't get about your posts. Why do you care this much about something that is either beneficial or irrelevant?

[mrultimate]

My true feeling is that you don't want to get your hope up because it hurts when they are dashed. It is easier and safer to be skeptical, but it is a short step to cynicism when nothing but absolute proof, certified by accountants or personal experience are necessary for you to have any hope that what might happen, could happen. It's tough to to face emotions, especially for men, and that makes us loathe to discuss it or even admit that we have an emotional reaction.

Queue the Morris Albert tune. :P

[MWRuger]

Queue the Morris Albert tune. :P

Had to google that one.

[blacksly]

Which is why I don't think much of any development time will be spent on CoH if it re-launches.  It just wouldn't be wise use of time and money to try to make a 12 year old game look and run like it isn't built on an out-dated mess of spaghetti code.

That's not at all right.
SOME types of development time would be, possibly, a poor return on investment compared to spending it on COH2.

But there are lots of other types of development that would add stuff to the game for a long while, and not require much code hacking:
New animations, new powersets, new maps, new monsters, new missions, new zones (just using features similar to existing zones such as Croatoa), etcetera.

The types of developers working on those would not necessarily be working on graphics rendering. Sure, you might not be able to develop an entirely new way to manifest a power like the timed-toggle AoE Phase Shifts, but you can do quite a lot with existing power-design features to add new powersets.

[AlienOne]

Speculating in the absence of facts is foolish.

Speculate is what people do who don't have all the information.

SCoRE has not provided that.

Any questions?


I'm not sure how to get much clearer than that.

I am allowed to hold the opinion that (and I will repeat it...again) I have more faith in this effort than I do the SCoRE effort.

I am sorry that you seem to have a problem with that and are attributing "bad mouthing" to stating the fact that, yes, indeed, we do know nothing. If "bad mouthing" is defined as making a true statement, then absolutely yes. I am bad mouthing.

If not... Then you are not only seriously mistaken, you didn't fully read my last post (located just one page over) where I posted quotes from SCoRE threads over a year ago.

Still don't believe that I haven't been following it?

Still have a problem with my opinion?

I got nothing for ya, man.

In years past (especially on CoH boards), people would go to someone's post history to check and see if they had a history of being a troublemaker.

I invite you to do the same.

[The Fifth Horseman]

I lean more towards "I'll believe it when I see it" than "you said that it's true? Ok! I'll believe you right away!"
I think it's much better to have a healthy dose of skepticism about most things, because that causes people to find things out for themselves and believe facts over fiction.

True.

Now, let's take SCoRE. There is no evidence, no facts, and no strong consensus that there is even a slight bit of shred of accomplishment by a group of any sort.

Look at it from a "Producer" angle. Would you throw your money at a project that was able to show you pre-visualizations, a script, a plan/vision, and/or actor/actress name attached, or would you throw your money at a dude that says "yo, man, I got this thing....this thing that I'm working on...it's gonna be HUGE...I don't have anything to show you, but trust me, it's SO COOL"?

The former, of course.
In my opinion the available evidence of their capability and advancement in research (keeping in mind that reverse engineering is anything but fast or easy) is sufficient to make me reasonably confident in their ability to create the final product. No, it does not show what's their progress on the matter, nor does it guarantee completion (much less a release deadline). They appear to know what they're doing, so it may be worthwhile to wait and see what happens.
If you noted, SCORE is relatively low key - their announcements amount to "We exist. Working on it. Will release when ready.". They're not doing it for anyone's admiration, hence no hype (including progress reports) or clamoring for our attention. Oddly enough, I find I can respect that more than a team that would produce plenty of meaningless or simply trivial progress reports.

[mrultimate]

Really guys just agree to disagree and drop it.

[AlienOne]

Really guys just agree to disagree and drop it.

I have no problem if he disagrees or has a different viewpoint about SCoRE.

The only times I feel the need to reply is when language is used that implies I am creating trouble (I.E., "badmouthing"). At that point, I feel it necessary to explain myself and reiterate my viewpoint in the hopes that "maybe they'll get it this time."

Then again....maybe they won't.

[Felderburg]

What would CoH2 be?

For me, the key to CoH2 would be something that's more innovative in terms of power set design and mission structure. At the beginning of the game, missions were much more of the "kill X, go here, find a thing" linear paths. Newer missions had choices, and much more innovative design. Same with power sets. Claws was in the game at the beginning, and it had a bunch of damage attacks. Compared to, say Dual Blades, which had combos, or Staff Fighting, which had different forms and built up bonuses as you attacked. It's my understanding that some sort of programming language (who's name escapes me at the moment) was going to be added in I24, which would have made scripting missions a lot easier and more innovative. Honestly, with improvements to graphics and more innovative gameplay (in both powers and missions), that's all I need.

But if a CoH2 were introduced, I would assume it would be in some sort of engine or software that had great graphics, and allowed for the innovative gameplay I mentioned. The biggest concern for me would be story. I agree with a poster above, just updating the graphics but keeping the same story and gameplay and slapping "CoH2" on it would be a poor choice. But would CoH2 it be the same story as CoH, up to the first Rikti War, and then they take it from there, all new? Would it be the same story as CoH, except with different characters? Would it be a "reality barfed for a few years, here's an all new city"?

I guess a cool thing to do would perhaps focus on another city entirely - maybe on the west coast, or something, or base it more on worldwide heroes, rather than the one city. That would allow them to keep the existing lore completely intact, without having to invent some sort of plot device to explain any differences in story or timeframe from CoH 1. It would also allow them to tell whole new stories and build on existing lore without directly contradicting what came before. I think it would be cool to see what happened to other cities during the Rikti War, or when Mot rose up (the game mentioned Chicago had been swallowed - what about other cities, and their fight against Mot?).

No, I didn't miss that.  But I think it's bad form to try to resell us things that they didn't even have a hand in making.

...That's sort of a weird stance to take about specific items in the game, when the entire game could be something they didn't have a hand in making. Although I guess some of the people involved were devs of NCsoft higher ups, so... they did have a hand in making it? I mean, I get where you're going, and I would prefer - assuming account info isn't sold - that all or much of the store stuff be given for free or early vet-type rewards, and the new studio makes their own stuff to sell / reward later, but this statement, by itself, just struck me as very odd and contradictory to your statement that you're fine with them making money to maintain the game itself.

[Tyrannical]

I agree, let's put this behind us. This isn't the place to debate or justify one or more person's opinions or a project unrelated to the one here.

So let's move swiftly on, I have a list of plausible topics here;
1 - What flavor of Hero O's is your favourite?
2 - Who would win in a rap battle? TonyV or Ironwolf?
3 - How many midget clones of yourself could you fight and win?
4 - How many aliens have invaded by this point? sheesh
5 - What happened to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Column?

[MWRuger]

I agree, let's put this behind us. This isn't the place to debate or justify one or more person's opinions or a project unrelated to the one here.

So let's move swiftly on, I have a list of plausible topics here;
1 - What flavor of Hero O's is your favourite?
2 - Who would win in a rap battle? TonyV or Ironwolf?
3 - How many midget clones of yourself could you fight and win?
4 - How many aliens have invaded by this point? sheesh
5 - What happened to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Column?

1 - Snorgleblossom flavor!
2 - TonyV seems to have the necessary "Oh yeah!?!"
3 - All my midget clones...they might be giants.
4 -  At least OneAlien (sorry couldn't resist)
5 - They were left holding the building.

[Golden Girl]

'But would CoH2 it be the same story as CoH, up to the first Rikti War, and then they take it from there, all new? Would it be the same story as CoH, except with different characters? Would it be a "reality barfed for a few years, here's an all new city"?

Battalion/Coming Storm could be a kind of bridge between CoH 1 and 2, causing changes to the city, and also providing a post-war story backdrop with a similar feel to the first Rikti war.

[sindyr]

Color me prey. I'd repurchase everything, from the client, monthly account fees, bonus packs, free to play material whatever.

Let me at it.

(Throws money at the screen)
"Shut up and take my money!"

Me too!

[healix]

1.- Sugar Scrappies or Toastie Tankies
2.- Tony V, because the shine from his crown would blind Ironwolf...
3.- midget clones of me...*shudders at the thought*
4.- none...my midget clones scared them off
5.- They all formed a rock band named 'Beethoven's Fifth'

[Mageman]

Third of all, where do you get off claiming that there as been nothing that's come of it? Have you played around with Icon at all? Do you consider that "nothing"? That program came directly out of client-side reverse engineering efforts, and given that you wouldn't even be able to get into the costume editor without it, being able to actually get into and wander around the city is, in my humble opinion, hardly "absolutely nothing".

I have played around with Icon, and I find the costume creator fun to play, but once I enter the game it's like walking around a morgue. Everything is dead. There is no life here, no fun here.

[Blackstar5]

Thanks for clearing things up, TonyV. It's kinda nice intake of confidence knowing this is a for-real-deal.

as for SCoRE? I know little about them, but I know they're doing a damned good job at their goals, and from what it seems are a good insurance plan should things not go so well, not that I think they won't, I'm actually pretty enthusiastic and positive about this project!

City of Titans however... I like their initiative, and the effort they're putting into for a successor to the game. Even if both get launched, the Superhero MMO market is roomy enough for two, given that the only competition here is CO, DC and Marvel.

If I had to pin my hopes on anything though, definitely this. Heck, I know it's early, but we could do with getting the news out eventually, build a gathering, mh? Marketing would certainly up the player count, and bring flesh blood rather than just all us old vets~

Already trying to recruit N00BS from work for the (hopeful) relaunch.

[SpectaPhantom]

I think a relaunch would bring in more people or about the same amount there was when it was first announced CoH was closing. Specially if marketed correctly. That would go down as time goes on I would think though.

[Tyrannical]

I think a relaunch would bring in more people or about the same amount there was when it was first announced CoH was closing. Specially if marketed correctly. That would go down as time goes on I would think though.

CoH and WoW were both released around the same time, the reason why WoW had a more successful gathering is simply because they had a larger marketing budget. The idea of throwing this game onto Steam comes to mind, should that idea sound plausible, address the PC gaming community at large.

If not? well, plenty of content that could be used for advertising from the get go, even if it's a mash-up of the old reveal cutscenes and issue updates.

[TonyV]

Speculate is what people do who don't have all the information.

People speculating doesn't bother me so much, unless I know they're just making shtuff up.

People expectorating, on the other hand, bothers me quite a bit.

[Takinalis]

Good thing I didn't recruit any of you for Fight Club....
Damnit! I just broke Rule #1!

I hate you guys.

If there was a Fight Club by the way, this is the worst possible thread to even think of mentioning or talking about it on.

Very very very naughty.