New efforts!

[Antovaras]

Bottom Line.. i already spent thousands of dollars over 8 years.. if it was 50 or so bucks to get all my toons and my wife's toons back...

I couldnt give you my money fast enough...

Pretty much the same, though for me even if they didn't have the account info I'd still invest my money in a game I love.

[Tyrannical]

Thanks for clearing things up, TonyV. It's kinda nice intake of confidence knowing this is a for-real-deal.

as for SCoRE? I know little about them, but I know they're doing a damned good job at their goals, and from what it seems are a good insurance plan should things not go so well, not that I think they won't, I'm actually pretty enthusiastic and positive about this project!

City of Titans however... I like their initiative, and the effort they're putting into for a successor to the game. Even if both get launched, the Superhero MMO market is roomy enough for two, given that the only competition here is CO, DC and Marvel.

If I had to pin my hopes on anything though, definitely this. Heck, I know it's early, but we could do with getting the news out eventually, build a gathering, mh? Marketing would certainly up the player count, and bring flesh blood rather than just all us old vets~

[Harpospoke]

Just a bit of trivia for reference, the Unreal engine started out 18 years ago in a much more primitive state than the COH engine ever was. :)

Just goes to show how far you can take something by continuously improving and cleaning it up.

Now that's interesting.   Maybe cleaning up CoH is the way to go.

I hear the "it's so much work you might as well make CoH2".   Maybe that's true...but we are getting CoT for that, right?   The only difference is they have to use different names for everything.

[Harpospoke]

For me the the game is not level 50, I just want to breath the air in the city again and inhale the atmosphere :)

Wish it worked that way for me...I wouldn't worry about my old characters so much.

The upside used to be that I didn't have to worry about "no endgame content" like some people did.   Lvl 50 was where I had fun.   But now this situation makes it a big downside.

[Harpospoke]

Hehe, remember magic desks?  I have to wonder whether they were a complete freak of programming or done on purpose...and who was OCD enough to figure out what they were capable of?

That's a great question!   ;D

I still remember reading about it on the forums and then getting it to actually work in the game.   Made me high-five myself.

[MWRuger]

Okay, first of all, this is precisely why I don't say a lot about the efforts going on in this arena, because I don't want the hassle of continually having to answer questions about it, especially since I'm not really a key player in its development.

Second of all, it hasn't been three years.  Three years ago, not only was the game still up and running, but it was still three issues away from closing down.  SCoRE didn't really kick off in earnest until a few weeks after the shutdown notice, and even then, it was a mad rush to collect network traces and dissect API information.  Actually thinking about coding something up to implement that stuff didn't occur until a few months after that.  In other words, SCoRE has really only been working on this as a project for a little over a year.

Third of all, where do you get off claiming that there as been nothing that's come of it? Have you played around with Icon at all? Do you consider that "nothing"? That program came directly out of client-side reverse engineering efforts, and given that you wouldn't even be able to get into the costume editor without it, being able to actually get into and wander around the city is, in my humble opinion, hardly "absolutely nothing".

If I come off as defensive, it's because I'm in a long-running chat session with the folks who are working on this stuff, and I see the amount of time they're putting into it.  Hardly a day goes by when there's not some serious discussion going on about how to implement some server-side functionality. What I think might be lost on some people is that this stuff is hard. Like, really hard. City of Heroes wasn't built on a well-known and documented game engine, it was built from the ground up. There is no public information on how the game works internally, and trying to recreate a black box like that from scratch is extremely time-consuming.

Even the low-level network protocol used to communicate between the client and the server was designed from scratch, a variant of UDP. And it's not like there's just one monolithic piece of code that has to be replicated, either. There are account servers, authentication servers, database servers, map servers, chat servers, etc., all of which have to be implemented and working for stuff to function correctly. In other words, it's not just reverse engineering one program, but like eight or ten, each one pretty durn complex.

If you want to give up on SCoRE, then that's fine, give up on SCoRE.  Will CoT launch before it's finished?  I don't know, probably.  Will CoH relaunch before it's finished?  Maybe, but even if so, that won't be the end of SCoRE, as the people working on it have expressed to me that they don't want to be caught flat-footed if the game shuts down again in the future.

But rest assured that just because we don't post a stream of messages about the project, it's not dead, and the hyperbole about it being three years with nothing to show for it really rubs me the wrong way.

Like I said before, you don't owe us a damn thing. This team is spending a huge amount of time to do something that may benefit us in future. I don't know enough about programming but I do know how complicated systems can be.

I'm a historian by training and I can tell you that what you are doing is exceptionally difficult. Imagine it like this, as a historian, you come across some ancient text and you can recognize only every 10th word or so even the alphabet is recognized. In fact, you discover that it is a written language based on a spoken language you don't know and can't identify. (Think Linear A or Etruscan) From that you have to try and decipher what it is saying.

You'll let us know when you are ready. I promise, we'll be grateful.

[Harpospoke]

Here's the thing about the database that's probably going to indicate it's not going to happen, even if it's available:

>Prove you're you.<

It may sound or feel like this is a simple thing from us individually, but think about the other side... thousands of accounts to slog through.  And somehow, someone has to ensure that person A really is person A and not person 7 who is trying to get in a fully set up, lots of inf, lots of 50s, lots of this or that account.

Think of the backlash a few of those might have.  "MY EX STOLE MY ACCOUNT!!!"  is the first kind that comes to mind.  If you think it won't happen, well...

I mean, I had a pissant account compared to some of those out there.  And while I wouldn't dare dream of actually trying to grab the account... some of the people "out there" would.

So while it's completely possible... the sheer numbers of potential fraudulence might just make it an unworthy time/money sink for the new owners.  It'd be safer to not offer it, not do it, than risk the potential can of worms that restoring the months mothballed accounts might be.

I would think if that was something that would discourage them, they would never have any accounts at all....

....cause that used to happen when the game was running and is no doubt going to happen again if it comes back.   It would just be new accounts getting stolen by ex'es.

[Harpospoke]

If you want to give up on SCoRE, then that's fine, give up on SCoRE.  Will CoT launch before it's finished?  I don't know, probably.  Will CoH relaunch before it's finished?  Maybe, but even if so, that won't be the end of SCoRE, as the people working on it have expressed to me that they don't want to be caught flat-footed if the game shuts down again in the future.

That's awesome to hear.

[Harpospoke]

Which is why I don't think much of any development time will be spent on CoH if it re-launches.  It just wouldn't be wise use of time and money to try to make a 12 year old game look and run like it isn't built on an out-dated mess of spaghetti code.

We know from many many reports from folks like Positron, Castle, BaBs, Pohsyb, Arbiter Hawk, etc. that the game often times breaks when things are adjusted, often in totally unrelated areas.  The system that was in place to create cut-scenes IIRC, was described as "something I wouldn't want to wish on anyone."  We love the game, we love the memories and we loved the Devs because THEY loved the game and us... but the best thing that could happen to us right now, is for someone to get the IP sold to them with or without the actual game so that they can actually make a REAL successor, in a REAL studio.

This is going to sound insulting to the Devs....   :-\

Is this a little bit like an auto mechanic complaining that the work he did on your car is making it harder for him to work on your car?

[Fridgy Daiere]

This is going to sound insulting to the Devs....   :-\

Is this a little bit like an auto mechanic complaining that the work he did on your car is making it harder for him to work on your car?

LOL, more like a mechanic at Napa complaining because previous mechanics at the same Napa garage didn't fix things the "normal" way and then didn't keep notes, receipts, purchase orders, etc. so that he/she can fix your car efficiently today.   ;D

[Codewalker]

Like I said before, you don't owe us a damn thing. This team is spending a huge amount of time to do something that may benefit us in future. I don't know enough about programming but I do know how complicated systems can be.

You'll let us know when you are ready. I promise, we'll be grateful.

Well, since Tony can't seem to remember that the 'S' is for 'Secret', the reason nobody's heard anything is because they got the ITF working, and then all development on finishing the rest came to a sudden an unexplained standstill. :o

I kid, I kid, but the people who are actually involved in it aren't interested in discussing it. You haven't (and won't) see anything posted by anyone beyond rampant speculation. There are reasons for this:

1. Because they don't want people bugging them every 5 minutes for status updates.
2. Because they don't want to get people's hopes up for something that may or may not come to fruition.
3. Because they want to do it right the first time.
4. Because if someone doesn't like that approach, they're welcome to give it a go themselves.
5. It's off-topic for this thread anyway, which is supposed to be about a rumored buyout possibility.

In other words, "It doesn't exist, nothing to see here, move along."

[Fridgy Daiere]

...the reason nobody's heard anything is because they got the ITF working, and then all development on finishing the rest came to a sudden an unexplained standstill. :o

That's probably the first time chocolate milk has come out of my nose since grade school.

[AlienOne]

I have no idea how I seem to have this incredible talent to piss people off via being completely misunderstood and misquoted or my ideas misrepresented. It happened on the CoH boards (in the Warshade section) for years before people finally understood that I didn't have any ill intentions against their personal viewpoint (and that it's ok to have your own viewpoint).

Now, it's happening on here: first with someone stating that I didn't have any "hope" for the game being revived because I was a skeptic, and then with someone completely misunderstanding that I wasn't talking about this effort (the one that was started in this thread), I was talking about reverse-engineer efforts. Now, suddenly I don't have any hope for this effort? Or any effort?

Ok, I'll bite. Let's see....Where shall we begin?

Hey... If Hellgate: London can get bought and revived, City of Heroes DEFINITELY can.

Hmmmm.... Does that sound like hope? That was posted in 2012.

I got it to connect and said hello...

Thanks!

This is me posting in a SEGS thread over a year ago. That indicated that, although I'm a skeptic, I was willing to check out/try out what they were working on to give some feedback/talk to them about it.

Why? Because I was hopeful.

I'm hoping really hard as well... I miss my Warshade, which I spent almost 2,000 hours on. :/

Hmmm... Looks like "Mr. Cynical" actually used the word "hoping" here.... What was he thinking? What was he even responding to? Ohhhh, he was responding that he was hoping that the SCoRE project worked out...in a thread about SCoRE.

Ehhh...must not be the same guy.

This is the best idea I've heard about the future of this game since the game shut down...

Having gone through about half of my Master's degree in Game Design now at this point, I can see HUGE potential for a case in this area, if we could get any of the colleges (like the one I go to) to latch on to it and provide some kind of backing or merit to the case that it is something that should be preserved (much in the same way the "historical society" of any given town preserves certain older buildings in the town).

Here, this "AlienOne" guy was talking about making City of Heroes Abandonware in that same SCoRE thread. Also, it appears he's working on his Master's degree in Game Design? That means there absolutely NOTHING he could contribute in terms of expertise on game design, right? What, are they giving those degrees out like candy these days?

I'm very excited that there's some movement on this issue, and I REALLY appreciate you putting us in the loop. After so long, I'm just...a little cautious.

Here's part of the first post I made in this thread back on....page 27. Why would someone who had no hope whatsoever of this game ever coming back be so.....excited? That's weird.

That's what I'm hoping as well... I've been gaming since 1988, and I have boxes full of classic PC games, my Steam collection is somewhere around 200 PC games, several games on Origin, a Wii, a PS3, and a collection of games for those....and with ALL that gaming, I have not found ONE game that comes close to what playing a Warshade made me feel like.

I for one am keeping my fingers crossed that it is everything.

What? MORE hope? In the same thread even? HERESY.

I am hoping beyond all hope that my ability to build my Warshade the way I was before (and created a guide for) will be essentially the same.

My worries are that Kheldians will be the first option to "scrap" when a game is remade (IF the game is remade), because they were certainly the most complicated (and in my opinion most interesting) way to build a toon in CoH.

Wait....It's not just hope, it's "hoping beyond all hope" now? What the hell is going on here?!?!?

As long as we all know there is SOME kind of effort happening, we won't stop checking in.

Why would someone who had no hope of this game ever being brought back even SAY all this stuff? Who IS this guy?


Sooo.... Let's take a look at this "skeptic" phenomenon that seems to bring SO MUCH "negativity" (I prefer practical reasoning) to these boards.

Could it be that he's the ONLY one that posts such horribly cautious viewpoints?

Until I know who we are dealing with, and see what their final intentions are, I don't see a reason to just blindly trust they are looking out for us.  Yes, I get that they are attempting to get the game working again, and investing their money to do it, but I also understand that the game (should it re-launch) is a business, and they do indeed need to recoup their costs somehow.

Until we know they have gotten anything at all, and also how they plan to monetize it, well, I will reserve my trust until that moment.  In the mean time, all of this thread is so much speculation an whooey anyway.

Plus, I, unlike a lot of people I find, like to argue and speculate and spar with folks in forums.  No one should take it personally or some kind of affront to an undisclosed "company"'s honor.

Oops...nope. I guess not.

*shrug*

Now, that said, I think it's important to reiterate (yet again--do I really need to post all the quotes of me repeating myself?) that there is a difference (at least in my perception) between the SCoRE effort and the effort talked about in this thread:

This effort has a vetted "spokesperson" keeping the public updated on progress. SCoRE does not.

Now, you may say:

Amazing that apparently its not understood that the first letter in SCoRE stands for

SECRET !!!

But, I would respond with:

se·cret
ˈsēkrit/Submit
adjective
adjective: secret
1. "not known or seen or not meant to be known or seen by others."

If this project is indeed "secret" (as you say), then....How in the WORLD do we know about it??

Aren't the rules...

First rule of SCoRE is we do not speak about SCoRE.

Second rule of SCoRE is we do not speak about SCoRE.

???

Here's the thing... If you want something to remain a secret (like, say, a "secret" project to create server emulation), then.....you keep it a secret. You don't "let the cat out of the bag" until you're ready to talk about it. You just don't. If you do, it's like a toddler that states he/she has a secret, but they can't tell you what it is. It's juvenile, and it accomplishes nothing but aggravation for BOTH parties (see Tony V's "oh, God, I hate responding to stuff like this" post). Neither party benefits. At all.

Until SCoRE decides to get someone who's amiable as IronWolf as spokesperson who actually gives some sort of official "state of the union," I don't see my attitude/skepticism/cynisism/whatever-you-want-to-call-it about the project changing about it. The inevitable response is, "we don't owe you anything." While you may be right, that again begs the question, "why let the cat out of the bag?"

If it really IS "secret"...why isn't it a secret?

SCoRE is still working on a community server/emulator/whatever. It's moving forward. AFAIK it's nowhere near ready, but AFAIK neither is SEGS - and SEGS is going for OldAssIssue SingleDigitSomethingOrOther, whereas I think SCoRE is going for I23 or I24. I'll just say it here: I do not look forward to the SEGS server, simply because of the OldAssIssue SingleDigitSomethingOrOther mechanics. :/

Also, SCoRE has been around since before the game was shut down. A few months, I think, maybe more.

This is already more information in one post that I've learned about SCoRE than in over a year of following these boards. Thank you for your time.

See? Is it THAT hard?

Okay, first of all, this is precisely why I don't say a lot about the efforts going on in this arena, because I don't want the hassle of continually having to answer questions about it, especially since I'm not really a key player in its development.

Ah, well.... Yes, I guess it is.

I suppose it's hard to come up with a pinned thread or locked post with "current updates," especially if you've posted over 2,175 times just on these boards (not to mention the amount of work you've done on Paragon Wiki and the number of posts you've made on the original CoH boards--yes, I've followed you for that long). My fingers would be tired too!

My apologies.

You're all awesome, and I am sorry that I am who I am.

[P51mus]

Isn't "prove you are you" technically just your login name and password assosiated to that account. Same as it would be still live today? Maybe its more complicate :)

Or access to the e-mail address it's registered under.

[Kaos Arcanna]

I'm sure there are many people who may have forgotten the passwords to their COX accounts.

If I hadn't written mine down, I could see myself having forgotten after almost 2 years.

[mrultimate]

I know both of my 2 accounts and my wife's by heart!

[TonyV]

If this project is indeed "secret" (as you say), then....How in the WORLD do we know about it??

Because there are various levels of "secret".  The fact that people are working on this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, especially since I've mentioned several times in the past that I know folks who are working on this.

But that doesn't mean that the people who are doing it or what exactly they're doing at any given time is open to public disclosure or discussion.  And there are good reasons for that.  In addition to what CW mentioned above, there's the fact that we're being funded by Mexican drug cartels, and we're trying to escape being noticed by the watchful eye of the DEA and Justice Department.  But that plan is probably shot now (along with five people in retribution), so I hope you're happy.

[drmanbot]

Also your profile information and the method of payment information could be used to verify your identity, as well as email, blah blah blah.

I don't think that will be a big stumbling block.

[Reiraku]

Because there are various levels of "secret".  The fact that people are working on this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, especially since I've mentioned several times in the past that I know folks who are working on this.

But that doesn't mean that the people who are doing it or what exactly they're doing at any given time is open to public disclosure or discussion.  And there are good reasons for that.  In addition to what CW mentioned above, there's the fact that we're being funded by Mexican drug cartels, and we're trying to escape being noticed by the watchful eye of the DEA and Justice Department.  But that plan is probably shot now (along with five people in retribution), so I hope you're happy.

So, some guys showed up at my house and asked if I knew what SCoRE was. When I said no, they took my thumbs.

Any idea what that's about?

[MWRuger]

AlienOne, you don't really expect people to be familiar with everything you have ever posted on this board do you?

People only respond to the immediate things you or anyone posts. They probably won't even see everything you posted in this thread.

To me, you seemed more cynical than skeptical, the whole bit with "I'm from Missouri" makes it seem like you take nothing on faith or in this case, the good faith of the people posting here. But lacking so many contextual clues it is very possible that you aren't. I'll take you at your word that you aren't and just assume that I misunderstood.

My true feeling is that you don't want to get your hope up because it hurts when they are dashed. It is easier and safer to be skeptical, but it is a short step to cynicism when nothing but absolute proof, certified by accountants or personal experience are necessary for you to have any hope that what might happen, could happen. It's tough to to face emotions, especially for men, and that makes us loathe to discuss it or even admit that we have an emotional reaction.

Like I said, you deal with it however you like. Your way is probably less painful. But in my view it is better to be hurt once in a while then to feel nothing at all.