New efforts!

[Number9]

business plan was laughably unrealistic, and he assumed that simply playing video games made him an expert in the video game industry.[/url] )

This may yet prove to be a quite prophetic statement.

Regards Schilling, Ive followed the story closely as I think its one of the most interesting stories about the gaming industry ever.  If Schilling had been able to secure the last batch of investment he needed (which he would have IMO) without being sabotaged by Chafee then we'd all probably be singing his praises and proclaiming him a Preston Tucker of MMOs.

The whole point of me raising the 38Studios story was to illustrate how complex and challenging a business MMO development is and how easily things can go south.  All the more reason to have realistic expectations for any CoH successor projects.  Securing the IP and maintaining/expanding the player base via i23 servers will help.  My hope is that this will draw in outside investment to one of the successors to give them the cash to see their project through.

[duane]

So, what exactly has Positron been working on, all this time?

The Masked Hero rides again!

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Aw.  Sadly I think this is just a statement.  It made my lunch really interesting for 5 minutes.  Sadly I think his COH days are behind him.  I would love to be wrong.

[BadWolf]

This may yet prove to be a quite prophetic statement.

Regards Schilling, Ive followed the story closely as I think its one of the most interesting stories about the gaming industry ever.  If Schilling had been able to secure the last batch of investment he needed (which he would have IMO) without being sabotaged by Chafee then we'd all probably be singing his praises and proclaiming him a Preston Tucker of MMOs.

I kinda doubt it, to be honest; the article lays out pretty clearly why a) he wasn't getting the investment money he needed, and why b) his revenue projections were so out of line with the expectations for a new MMO that he probably would have failed even if his game had been released and had been commercially successful. He'd blown through too much capital for any single game to be able to save his bacon, especially one as risky as a brand-new MMO designed to go head-to-head with WoW.

And while there's no way of knowing whether CoT will succeed--neither one of us has a crystal ball--they're definitely not making the same mistakes that Schilling made. They're not hiring tons of middle management in order to meet artificial hiring quotas, they're not constantly retooling the game based on the whims of the owner (at least, not as far as we know) and they're not spending cash freely on perks and benefits that don't translate to performance. Those were, at least from what I've heard, Schilling's cardinal sins and the biggest reasons why the company failed.

[Ironwolf]

I have a question.  Is the first post in this topic still going to be used as a sort of info clearinghouse / summary of the efforts to date?  Some folks don't have time to chew through the eleventy billion posts in the main threads to stay current on the actual progress of the actual team to acquire the actual game.  I missed a few days of the forum because of IRL crap to find that all topics had been unpinned and some had been locked.  I no longer feel up to date on where Missing Worlds is in their efforts.  Perhaps there have been no significant updates since the "And the mask comes off" thread debuted, but I'm no longer certain.

If Ironwolf's opening post in this thread won't be used for that purpose, what will?  How about a mods-only sticky thread devoted solely to the news that's fit to print?  It'd be nice to have a central info location that is free of conjecture, speculation, and fan theories about NCSoft's fiendish plot to come to our houses and personally kick all of our dogs.  Just the facts, that's what I want the most.

I will update it later this evening if you like.

[Sinistar]

So, what exactly has Positron been working on, all this time?

The Masked Hero rides again!

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I think he does articles for MMORPG and doesn't he also work at Cryptic now?
I'd like to see him back as a dev or even part time Dev for CoH but that is wishful thinking.

Just keep Jack out.

[Ironwolf]

Exactly my thoughts that the APR people should be the ones to run the i23 servers and use that revenue to fund development on 1.5.

I would expect the servers to be run by NCSoft or an affiliate. If you read Downix on the Mask off first post - he said they were transferred to the VP of Partnerships. NCSoft will be deciding who gets licensed and for how much, I would imagine. They may spin that work off to Arenanet or someone like that to do the day to day server work. If so it likely would be one of the best outcomes. With almost no staff and a stable game it could run indefinitely as long as it paid for itself.

[CrimsonCapacitor]

I think he does articles for MMORPG and doesn't he also work at Cryptic now?
I'd like to see him back as a dev or even part time Dev for CoH but that is wishful thinking.

Just keep Jack out.

I'm pretty sure he's doing content for STO.  I seem to recall him having a major hand in something.. klingon-y.  A tutorial there?  I've never set virtual foot in that game, so I don't know exactly what he's doing there. 

[Waffles]

One thing i'm skeptical about regarding APR, how the flying hell are you going to port CoH to a whole new engine?

You can't just copy game assets.  It'd honestly be easier to just rebuild the game from scratch and even then, How is the team going to REVERSE ENGINEER an ENTIRE ENGINE?

[Neutron-Star]

I will update it later this evening if you like.

Ironwolf,

Is it possible for you to start a brand new thread as a re-cap of "official" info and who provided it?  Maybe with quotes or references to specific posts.  That would help re-set the flow of info since this thread has grown soooo large.

As TonyV mentioned in his post from last week, it is hard to know what is first-hand info, what is second-hand, third and then just reaction and speculation.  We might also benefit from some kind of list of who speaks for which project and what name they go by here on these forums.  For example, we know that downix is a dev for Missing Worlds Media and Irish Girl is a dev for Atlas Park Revival.  Others seem to be speaking for these projects as well and its hard to know who really should be.

Just wishing to track good solid info and separate it from fun reaction and speculation.  Thanks for all your work keeping the game alive and keeping us all informed!

[Remaugen]

Ironwolf,

Is it possible for you to start a brand new thread as a re-cap of "official" info and who provided it?  Maybe with quotes or references to specific posts. 

Not a bad idea, best if it was locked so that only the "Officials" could make posts to prevent the rest of us from drowning out the message. . . :-[


We're almost there!   ;D

[Bitters]

One thing i'm skeptical about regarding APR, how the flying hell are you going to port CoH to a whole new engine?

You can't just copy game assets.  It'd honestly be easier to just rebuild the game from scratch and even then, How is the team going to REVERSE ENGINEER an ENTIRE ENGINE?

This is something that concerns me as well. Leasing the IP would allow you to copy assets I assume and anything else, but does it allow you to extract them directly from the game piggs?

[Kaos Arcanna]

I must admit to some confusion now.

Is the plan to lease the IP from NcSoft rather than purchase it? If that's the case, then I can see why Heroes and Villains and Valiance Online would chose to eschew any formal link to COX. The chance for the rug being pulled out from under your feet is a risk I wouldn't want to take.

[Waffles]

This is something that concerns me as well. Leasing the IP would allow you to copy assets I assume and anything else, but does it allow you to extract them directly from the game piggs?

I doubt it'll effect the image, but as far as APR is concerned, let's just say some friends of mine "Doubt it'll work like that" when it comes to a "Engine port"

[epawtows]

One thing i'm skeptical about regarding APR, how the flying hell are you going to port CoH to a whole new engine?

You can't just copy game assets.  It'd honestly be easier to just rebuild the game from scratch and even then, How is the team going to REVERSE ENGINEER an ENTIRE ENGINE?

The idea- this is a VERY TENTATIVE idea, mind you- is that MWM will finish their game, CoT.  The IP in it would be all (or mostly all) MWM's.   

APR would then license CoT's 'build' and modify it, as necessary, to resemble CoH more closely.  Then put their own CoH-based maps and IP into it.  A lot of work, sure, but much less than building an entire game from scratch.

[epawtows]

I must admit to some confusion now.

Is the plan to lease the IP from NcSoft rather than purchase it? If that's the case, then I can see why Heroes and Villains and Valiance Online would chose to eschew any formal link to COX. The chance for the rug being pulled out from under your feet is a risk I wouldn't want to take.

The hope- this is all still tentative, subject to change, but assuming all goes well- is to purchase the CoH IP from NCSoft outright.  Not license it, so NCSoft could not pull it from anyone.

What is being proposed to be licensed from them is the I23 game code.  If this all goes through whomever runs that code would have to license the CoH IP from the entity that bought it (even NCSoft would have to license the CoH IP at that point, if they wanted to do anything CoH related).

[Bitters]

The hope- this is all still tentative, subject to change, but assuming all goes well- is to purchase the CoH IP from NCSoft outright.  Not license it, so NCSoft could not pull it from anyone.

What is being proposed to be licensed from them is the I23 game code.  If this all goes through whomever runs that code would have to license the CoH IP from the entity that bought it (even NCSoft would have to license the CoH IP at that point, if they wanted to do anything CoH related).

My question is, since NCSOFT would still own the game code is it legal to rip assets from it even if you lease the IP? As in APR.

[Aggelakis]

The assets are part of the IP, they're buying the IP. APR licenses the IP from the new company and can do anything with any of it (within reason, obvs).

The MECHANICS are what NCsoft'll be licensing to the new company. APR won't be using the mechanics. APR will be licensing CoT's mechanics and altering it to better fit CoH.

* subject to change before release. :p

[Waffles]

The assets are part of the IP, they're buying the IP. APR licenses the IP from the new company and can do anything with any of it (within reason, obvs).

The MECHANICS are what NCsoft'll be licensing to the new company. APR won't be using the mechanics. APR will be licensing CoT's mechanics and altering it to better fit CoH.

* subject to change before release. :p

Okay, So how exactly are they (Irish Girl and Co) going to port the game to a whole new engine for APR?

That's not exactly something you can just do, you can rebuild the maps, but assets/game mechanics/scripts can't just be so easily replicated.

[Aggelakis]

Okay that's nice, So how exactly are they going to port the game to a whole new engine for APR?

That's not exactly something you can just do.

The assets are part of the IP, they're buying the IP. APR licenses the IP from the new company and can do anything with any of it (within reason, obvs).

The MECHANICS are what NCsoft'll be licensing to the new company. APR won't be using the mechanics. APR will be licensing CoT's mechanics and altering it to better fit CoH.

[Waffles]

That still doesn't answer my question, at all.

HOW are they going to do that? You can't just copy/paste things. It doesn't work like that.