New efforts!

[mrultimate]

Here's a question for all:

Let's say the game does come back, but NCSOFT still has some involvement with the game.......would you still come back?

For me the answer would be dependent on just how involved they would be, since it was them that killed the game in the first place.  Also I tried Wildstar for 5 minutes until I remembered it was NCsoft's game

Hopefully if this goes through it will be a complete sale and NCsoft walks away with their cash.

I'd come back pay my 3 subs and spend money in the store as well to be able to enjoy COH to the fullest.

[Ironwolf]

Here's a question for all:

Let's say the game does come back, but NCSOFT still has some involvement with the game.......would you still come back?

For me the answer would be dependent on just how involved they would be, since it was them that killed the game in the first place.  Also I tried Wildstar for 5 minutes until I remembered it was NCsoft's game

Hopefully if this goes through it will be a complete sale and NCsoft walks away with their cash.

I don't have inside information on this just some personal thoughts - I would not be surprised to see them do a similar things to what was done with Cryptic - a profit sharing to lower the purchase price and also to make sure the game was in good hands with NCSoft to have a clause with an option to buy the game back at $XXXX dollars upon some pre-determined failure point.

If I were them and I was selling the game, I would want a chance to be able to take the IP back if things went south. That is just common sense business wise and not an effort to screw anyone over. I can't change the way folks feel about NCSoft but I know my attitude changed when I have seen that they did offer to sell and it fell through due to some personality issues. Then again others approached them with money but no real plan on running the IP and were turned down.

Others could not get through the maze of NCSoft purchasing to get to the right guy. This led people to think they would not sell. In fact they would sell if the price and team buying is right and if the due diligence was done in finding the right contact. This was one of the things I said to the team from the start is to have patience. I work for a big company and threading your way through the corporate maze is time consuming.

You pretty much have to be either a huge company yourself to gain their attention - or know someone. Well, we knew someone! I do criticize the poor communication by the prior management but I also again work for a big company and they have their own rules. Let me give you a perfect example:

My work laptop was stolen from my car this spring. We are doing a rollout now to replace the older laptops, they messed up and thought I still had the old one and sent me a new laptop (HP 840g). Now the one I have now is not due to be replaced until next spring. I have the new laptop but they won't let me replace the one I have now - even though in 5 months it will be replaced anyways - because the one I have now is not in the scope of the project.

What I am saying is the closure of the game may not have been possible to avoid once scheduled because those working on the shutdown did not have the power to SELL the game - it was out of the scope of the project they were working on. In large companies this is definitely normal. You would have to get to the head of Acquistions/Sales or some other such person to buy the game. Those closing it would not have the juice to sell it.

We had this also happen to us where we were told an office was closing on xx date and then the property sales department - sold it 6 months early and we had to pay an extra month of T1 charges as we could not get the data shutoff in time.

[Waffles]

The question is: What is their definition of "Going South"?

If they honestly expect us to be as good as we were pre-sunset, What chance do we have?

[Power Gamer]

The question is: What is their definition of "Going South"?

If they honestly expect us to be as good as we were pre-sunset, What chance do we have?

Can never really be sure, but one thing is for certain.

The resurgence CANNOT be mediocre or moderate.  :P
Companies of this size, putting forth this kind of effort, resources and money are expecting a DAZZLING, RUN-AWAY success.

If on re-opening (and a short sweetheart timeframe) the community fluffs it by not promoting and gaining large amounts of new subs (in addition to the former subs) then it will "go south".

You can hardly expect less. This is what we have been waiting for. The reset button will have been pushed. The team in place with all the tools to maintain and develop the game we say we love.

So if it concerns you that the hope of the game returning is failing, I have a suggestion.

Recruit new players now. Get them involved now. And lets show the powers holding all the cards that we really do want CoX back that much. 

[ivanhedgehog]

Can never really be sure, but one thing is for certain.

The resurgence CANNOT be mediocre or moderate.  :P
Companies of this size, putting forth this kind of effort, resources and money are expecting a DAZZLING, RUN-AWAY success.

If on re-opening (and a short sweetheart timeframe) the community fluffs it by not promoting and gaining large amounts of new subs (in addition to the former subs) then it will "go south".

You can hardly expect less. This is what we have been waiting for. The reset button will have been pushed. The team in place with all the tools to maintain and develop the game we say we love.

So if it concerns you that the hope of the game returning is failing, I have a suggestion.

Recruit new players now. Get them involved now. And lets show the powers holding all the cards that we really do want CoX back that much.

I am waiting for the message that the deal is done. I dont imaging that we will hear anything till the ink is dry and done.

[Power Gamer]

I am waiting for the message that the deal is done. I dont imaging that we will hear anything till the ink is dry and done.

Very correct  8)

[Ankhammon]

What I am saying is the closure of the game may not have been possible to avoid once scheduled because those working on the shutdown did not have the power to SELL the game - it was out of the scope of the project they were working on. In large companies this is definitely normal. You would have to get to the head of Acquistions/Sales or some other such person to buy the game. Those closing it would not have the juice to sell it.

While I agree with most everything you put down here IW. Having worked for Sprint (my NDA is long over so I can admit this :) ) I do realize how detached upper management can be from the company they lead and the people who are affected by their decisions.

I don't know if the people who made the decision about the CoH closure were ever gamers or understood the type of unique culture (even by MMO standards) we have forged. I'm fairly sure they didn't have an understanding of the scope of outcry that decision made. Companies take it seriously when they have egg on their faces as it does affect their bottom line. All companies trade partly on their good name and they want to keep it as pristine as possible.

In the case of CoH, it's starting to sound as if Paragon Studios was spending much of its resources on developing this other game. I suspect (others have too) the closing of CoH was wound up in this.

Was NCSoft being held financially responsible for this other game?

If this is so, then any decision surrounding CoH would have been tied to this game as well. It is a rather large investment in company resources (both financial and physical) to create another game.

It then becomes quite possible that NCSoft didn't think much of that games potential and that played a large part in the decision to close the CoH title. It's also possible to think that NCSoft just didn't have confidence in Paragon Studios ability to churn out another title.

[duane]

The question is: What is their definition of "Going South"?

If they honestly expect us to be as good as we were pre-sunset, What chance do we have?

Just my opinion, good to always say that: the project and/or worse the company acquiring the product at any point in the process from conception to production is no longer viable to fulfill the contractual obligations to all parties involved whether that is financial or other responsibilities.

[BadWolf]

Regarding all time crappy Atari 2600 games;  no mention of Indiana jones?  I remember it just be impossible to control him.

Even the Nazis couldn't control Indiana Jones, and they had an army. What hope do you have?

[Ankhammon]

The question is: What is their definition of "Going South"?

If they honestly expect us to be as good as we were pre-sunset, What chance do we have?

I seriously doubt that would be the case.

Are you suggesting the old switcheroo? NCSoft gets some group to buy the title and then immediately closes the game (due to a loophole) when it doesn't immediately have the same amount of users?

No matter what you think of NCSoft, believe that they want the best for themselves. They already don't want to deal with anyone from Paragon because of the embarrassment over the closure of CoH.

[Sihada]

I am waiting for the message that the deal is done. I dont imaging that we will hear anything till the ink is dry and done.

I wouldn't bother recruiting people today when there's no clue as to when anything is going to happen, and there's not even a guarantee that anything is going to happen.

When there's actually somewhere to go and something for people to see, that's the time to recruit people.  Until then, it's all theoretical and speculation.

[Serpine]

But whatever became of the Philosopher's Stone, the Crown, and the Sword of Ultimate Sorcery?  Do they still exist, and if so, who has them?

I was aware of the mystery, but the rest of your post has me thinking that the pursuit of what happened to those would make for the basis of an interesting documentary, much as the one being made about cartridge landfill. I love those sort of movies / shows.

The resurgence CANNOT be mediocre or moderate.  :P
Companies of this size, putting forth this kind of effort, resources and money are expecting a DAZZLING, RUN-AWAY success.

I think if anybody has expectations that a CoH maintenance relaunch will even have 50% of the old playerbase they will be sorely disappointed. Sure there are those of us who will support it but a lot of older players will just shrug at its return remembering fun they once have or just check in once out of nostalgia and then file it away. Newer players might find the level of character creator options interesting but the old rigs still look very dated.
CoH2 is where any the dazzling successes would happen. The best CoH can really hope for is to pay the bills while CoH2 is developed.

[Ohioknight]

Recruit new players now. Get them involved now. And lets show the powers holding all the cards that we really do want CoX back that much.

Yeah, I'm afraid trying to recruit new players now may well be counter productive. 
Since we have no word on ANY actual developments, the deal could disappear tomorrow or take place 6 months from now...

trying to bring in fresh blood in those circumstances is more likely to turn off potential players than gain devotees.

[Sugoi]

Would I play the game if it were revived and NCSoft was a part of the process?

YES!!!  I've always had respect for NCS in taking a chance on distributing the game in the first place, and bucking the trend in daring to bring out a non-traditional fantasy-based MMO.  They kept it running for quite a while, and I have to admit I got personally upset when the closure announcement was made.  And even though I spent thousands of dollars during the run of the game for subscriptions, updates and various trinkets tied to the in-game experience, I always felt it was money well-spent for the enjoyment received.

If the new development team is planning on spending most of their efforts on CoH2, I'll give it a try, but if I don't find it as enjoyable, I'll be back on CoH, enjoying the game I had come to play more than any other computerized game since the early 70s.  The most important factor in game enjoyment to me isn't the latest, slickest shiniest graphics, but the fun of playing the game itself.

Once the formal notification of the game's restoral has been announced, then I'll start on making it known to my friends, both locally and on the net.  I don't think we'll have a problem getting people to try it out that didn't realize it existed prior to the shutdown notice and the public discussion that occurred due to that event.  Prepare to open your arms wide to welcome and guide a whole new flood of newbs who will be confused by an entirely different environment than they've gotten used to, floundering thru the swamp of mediocre fantasy MMOs that make up a majority of the modern day gaming environment.

Next Year in Paragon City!!!

[General Sherman]

Next Year in Paragon City!!!

Here, here!

[Luna Eclypse]

Next Year in Paragon City!!!

If I drank, I'd drink to that!  ;)

In the meantime, I got a Closed Beta invite to ArcheAge which I'm downloading for the fourth sodding time because this game launcher of theirs is rubbish.

[Eskreema]

The question is: What is their definition of "Going South"?

If they honestly expect us to be as good as we were pre-sunset, What chance do we have?

Ya this really.  Im interested in definitions of "successful" or "viable" and projected growth.  Difficult things no doubt, but if Coh doesnt do well again, Im glad it was a long ceremony cause it may be a short honeymoon.... Heh heh heh *chokes on hot coffee*

[Ironwolf]

I again don't have insight to NCSoft's boardroom - however looking back in hindsight you see a merger with Nexon going on right as they close City of Heroes and Paragon Studios was losing money - on paper.

If you were going to merge with a HUGE company and looked down your list of properties that would be studied under the merger and you saw 1 - just 1 title losing money. What would you do? Remember when they merged with Nexon they would have to EXPLAIN - all of their business decisions. I can see the conversation now:

Nexon: Why are you keeping this title going? This studio is losing money.
NCSoft: well it has 100,000 customers.
Nexon: Your next lowest title has more than 3 times that many customers. Why are you keeping that open when you closed Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa and other titles?
NCSoft: I guess due to company reallocation of assets we need to cut this one off.

I would bet that this conversation or one very much like it happened. If there was no merger the game may have stayed afloat a bit longer. With no CoH2 in the works though the days of Paragon were numbered.

[Sinistar]

I don't have inside information on this just some personal thoughts - I would not be surprised to see them do a similar things to what was done with Cryptic - a profit sharing to lower the purchase price and also to make sure the game was in good hands with NCSoft to have a clause with an option to buy the game back at $XXXX dollars upon some pre-determined failure point.

If I were them and I was selling the game, I would want a chance to be able to take the IP back if things went south. That is just common sense business wise and not an effort to screw anyone over. I can't change the way folks feel about NCSoft but I know my attitude changed when I have seen that they did offer to sell and it fell through due to some personality issues. Then again others approached them with money but no real plan on running the IP and were turned down.

Others could not get through the maze of NCSoft purchasing to get to the right guy. This led people to think they would not sell. In fact they would sell if the price and team buying is right and if the due diligence was done in finding the right contact. This was one of the things I said to the team from the start is to have patience. I work for a big company and threading your way through the corporate maze is time consuming.

You pretty much have to be either a huge company yourself to gain their attention - or know someone. Well, we knew someone! I do criticize the poor communication by the prior management but I also again work for a big company and they have their own rules. Let me give you a perfect example:

My work laptop was stolen from my car this spring. We are doing a rollout now to replace the older laptops, they messed up and thought I still had the old one and sent me a new laptop (HP 840g). Now the one I have now is not due to be replaced until next spring. I have the new laptop but they won't let me replace the one I have now - even though in 5 months it will be replaced anyways - because the one I have now is not in the scope of the project.

What I am saying is the closure of the game may not have been possible to avoid once scheduled because those working on the shutdown did not have the power to SELL the game - it was out of the scope of the project they were working on. In large companies this is definitely normal. You would have to get to the head of Acquistions/Sales or some other such person to buy the game. Those closing it would not have the juice to sell it.

We had this also happen to us where we were told an office was closing on xx date and then the property sales department - sold it 6 months early and we had to pay an extra month of T1 charges as we could not get the data shutoff in time.

you make some very interesting points.  Granted my knowledge of the full reasons for the shutdown are lacking, I'm mainly looking at it from the viewpoint of being a well paying customer that had their product yanked away with minimal reason given. 

A bit of a myopic point of view, but still a valid one. 

Now as to the Going South thing, well that depends on NCSoft's definition of Going South.  Not everyone is going to return on the first day of any relaunch, though of course that would be nice.  I would also expect that not all the servers are coming back at the time of relaunch and that server consolidation prior to relaunch would be more likely, after all I can think of one or two servers that could be described as Dead Zones in terms of their population.

Then of course there are some other questions that would need to be answered prior to relaunch, for example:

1. Subscription costs if any
2. Will it be the VIP/Free Player system again or back to the old subscription system for all?  Some people I played with were a bit miffed after going F2P that they lost usage of IO's unless they bought an inventor license for 30 days.

3. Did our accounts and characters survive or is it start all over again? For some this could be a make or break decision factor.   If our characters didn't survive, we did have that XML downloader to download all our character data, could we use that to restore them?  I think I heard a tale that there was an error with the costume data but that can be fixed with some time in the tailor shops, the main thing is the character back with their powers, IO's, incarnate powers, character name, etc?   

Note that I said that for some this could be a make or break factor, for me I'd be back. I can farm/PL as well as the next person it's just I'd have 100 characters to rebuild......takes a bit of time :)

4. Do all the servers return? If not and all our characters survived can we transfer the ones from the non returning servers to the active servers?

5. Supergroups and Bases: I'd expect these did not survive, if they did that's great if not no big deal.  Perhaps a limited time offer of starting a base with a few million prestige and one of the base badges would excite people.

As to whether the new team can make new content, as long as the AE is operational I suspect that many will entertain themselves with that as a new content builder.

Then some people will of course make suggestions for tuning up or adjusting certain things.  Will powers be altered at all?  New powers brought in?  Power customization for Khelds and Granite armor?  Just some examples.

Heh....I know if I were on a new team for CoH I would happily open up the data files for Peacebringer and Warshades and make a few minor tuneups......giving Warshades and PB at their creation the ability to choose flight or teleport for their travel power, and especially ripping knockback out of all PB powers.....
Also super speed would need a tune up, maybe see if adding the ability to run on walls so that walls and bumps in the road aren't a problem any more....Also granite armor, I would try to give that power a facelift as it were....

Just some thoughts....

[Ironwolf]

Ya this really.  Im interested in definitions of "successful" or "viable" and projected growth.  Difficult things no doubt, but if Coh doesnt do well again, Im glad it was a long ceremony cause it may be a short honeymoon.... Heh heh heh *chokes on hot coffee*

Again - I am not saying this is in the negotiations - I am saying I would be VERY surprised if it wasn't.

I mean how would it look if NCSoft does sell it and 6 months later the studio is belly up and the IP is in recievership? This sort of thing does happen.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/04/04/gamespy-multiplayer-closure-battlefield/

While not a game the Gamspy shutdown affected a LOT of the backend server listings on multiple games. I am not saying it will happen here - I am saying it DOES happen to companies who have great talent and a great product. So hang in there and let us see what happens! I am happy that at least we have an effort underway!