New efforts!

[Sugoi]

Data or not, if the game isn't around...it just doesn't matter.

QFT

[The Fifth Horseman]

"Gimp" is also a real-life slang term, generally regarded now as offensive, for someone who is crippled. So to gimp a character is to build it so that it's crippled (as gameplay goes) and ineffective. My namesake, one of my first CoX characters, was definitely gimped until I learned how enhancements worked, and was able to respec him. (A good illustration of why you should consider your first couple of characters in a game as disposable "test dummies" to learn the game on.)

It's also used for something... else
"Gimp suit".
See: http://superredundant.com/?p=331

[LaughingAlex]

You mean...that isn't L337? :D

No, no it is not :).

[Burnt Toast]

OK since everyone else has clarified what I thought was already pretty clear (my stance/personal wishes). Here is what I want... for me... yep for me I am greedy.


I would love it if the game came back and I had all my stuff. I had a 20+ level 50's who were maxed with Purples and PVP IOs... each toon worth billions of inf.


I had (at last count) over 72 mules each carrying 2 billion influence on servers I never played on....


My main toon had slightly over 1000 badges including MO of every TF and trial that ya could MO (It took me around 15 times to get the fricking AVOIDS GREEN STUFF badge to get my MO Keyes).


Do I want my stuff back.. ABSOLUTELY! But... you know what I want back more than all those billions and badges.. City of Heroes.


So IF it comes back and IF I have to start as a blank slate.. YIPPEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could care less about the badges and influence and everything else.... I JUST want my game back any way I can get it.
If it comes back and I have my toons, inf, badges, SG and all my base had... WOOT WOOT WOOT MOFO WOOT!


Now.. PLEASE READ CAREFULLY.


If we get the game back and we start with a clean slate of no character information.. I would hope that more people wouldn't be in a huge rush to get to 50 right away and we as a community could enjoy the game more from 1 to 50... revisiting those arcs that maybe we never did or ones we have fond memories of doing a few years ago (I love Frostfire and Atta). There's a lot I miss about CoH... everything from DfB to BAF. I loved the incarnate system which is why both of my main accounts at close were VIP. I could have easily went freemium, but the incarnate system and maxing my toons out was one of the best parts of the game for me. If we start with a clean slate.. I will probably only do the 1 to 50 "grind" on my main toon and simply power level the other ones so that I can enjoy the end game on those as well.


This is my wish... I am not thinking of you...or you..or you... I just want my game back... any way I can get it. If we get it with everything...I will probably think of a new toon to make and experience the game all over from 1 to 50 if I can find like minded people who are wanting to do the same thing; because I LOATHE soloing. Whenever I farmed people...I had one rule...they had to interact with me..talk to me and keep me company while I got them from 1 to 50 in 5 or 6 hours hehe.


Anyways.. . I hope that clears up what I want.... Thanks to those (who do not even know me...) for defending me and clarifying my personal wishes...while I wasn't here :)


*** The bad part.... I uninstalled CoH and have absolutely no idea what my usernames were (I had 3 accounts..one was just a free account).


(edited for a typo)

[Ironwolf]

Wolf I have a question if the team doesn't know how to fix the image, another member of this board brought this up (sorry if I don't remember who) said they could ask the former devs to see if they could fix the missing image inlue of not have documentation.

Oh, we talked about that already. They aren't worried about that stuff - yet. They are very intent on getting the game first everything else can be worked out. You have already seen Downix and Samuraiko say they used to do those exact jobs unwinding the reverse engineering and making documents. I have had other folks volunteer to work for free and some looking for jobs. I think there will be no lack of folks who want to help.

Someone, somewhere has the code. I don't know this for a proven fact but I find it very hard to believe someone doesn't have it. In the days of $15 - 32gb flash drives, someone has it or at least enough of the tools and stuff to unwind it.

[primeknight]

I know there are a number of people here who are or have worked for software development companies.  I currently work for one, though not as a coder.  Something that has boggled me throughout this project is, how can NCSoft not have the source code?  We still have the source code for our old DOS version of our program from the late 80s, as well as our 16-bit Windows version.  It wasn't until the last couple of years that we started using SourceSafe to check in all of our code.  In the old days, code was stored all over the place, but always had everything in at least one place, and we have maintained it through the years.  Granted, the company I work for is a multi-national software company in a pretty narrow field, and we do have some regulations we have to follow that is a bit more strict than what a game company would have, but still.  Is it really so common for established development groups to NOT maintain copies of all of their source code?  I would think, just for purposes of copyright enforcement, they would want to keep copies.

Just to clarify, I am not trying to start an argument, or say that NCSoft is lying, or whatever.  I am genuinely curious if this is something common.

Losing the source code is completely uncommon from my point of view.  Every company I've worked with has their specific code on a server backed up every day.

My only thoughts are this:
1. The company working on the product (Paragon Studios) was disassembled / the servers were recommissioned and their memory wiped for their new use
2. The game was never going to see the light of day again so any software and hardware required would not be needed for the game.
3. The server backups with the data were reused with for more current data after a certain time period had elapsed. 

These reasons are the only things that make sense to me as to why they wouldn't have any of the data.  From a software standpoint I would have kept at least a backup of the Paragon Studios work.  Like I said in a previous post:  all the work and effort were paid for and I would consider that valuable enough to store the information. 

I'll hold my tongue on the rest of my opinions for now.

[Angel Phoenix77]

Oh, we talked about that already. They aren't worried about that stuff - yet. They are very intent on getting the game first everything else can be worked out. You have already seen Downix and Samuraiko say they used to do those exact jobs unwinding the reverse engineering and making documents. I have had other folks volunteer to work for free and some looking for jobs. I think there will be no lack of folks who want to help.

Someone, somewhere has the code. I don't know this for a proven fact but I find it very hard to believe someone doesn't have it. In the days of $15 - 32gb flash drives, someone has it or at least enough of the tools and stuff to unwind it.

Thank you Wolf for clearing this up for me :), I didn't make the connection of Downix and Samuriko and their reverse engineer things.

[Ironwolf]

Thank you Wolf for clearing this up for me :), I didn't make the connection of Downix and Samuriko and their reverse engineer things.

Not saying they are doing the work - just saying there are a lot of folks out there who can do it. Obviously if they get paid to do it - others must have similar issues where the source is lost.

I can honestly say - I don't know why NCSoft doesn't have it available now - but that was the word I got that at this point its not there. I know it sounds silly but I can imagine a huge warehouse (datawise) that looks like the huge one in Indiana Jones where the Ark was left. Somewhere next to the Holy Grail and the real cross nails is the CoH source glowing softly blue and red in the night.

[Von Krieger]

It's also used for something... else
"Gimp suit".
See: http://superredundant.com/?p=331

I do so adore The Spank. From a distance, mind you.

http://superredundant.com/?p=688

[Serpine]

Obviously if they get paid to do it - others must have similar issues where the source is lost.

One of my previous bosses used to love saying something like "If the previous people our customers employed for IT actually did their job right we'd hardly have any business."

Someone, somewhere has the code. I don't know this for a proven fact but I find it very hard to believe someone doesn't have it. In the days of $15 - 32gb flash drives, someone has it or at least enough of the tools and stuff to unwind it.

One question that would help reinforce if that is the case is if any of the programming staff did work from remote (aka home). The odds that random tools / documentation / source files end up on a local drive because you were trying to hop something between uncommunicative servers, use a personal tool that isn't available on the dev system, or study some materials while offline dramatically increase when the work/home barrier is broken. :)

[Codewalker]

I can honestly say - I don't know why NCSoft doesn't have it available now - but that was the word I got that at this point its not there.

To me, "not available" is a way of sugarcoating "We have it but are not going to even discuss giving it to you."

If that is the case, depending on how the contract is written, the mystery buyers might be forbidden from using it even if a copy were to surface from someone else.

[MWRuger]

Losing the source code is completely uncommon from my point of view.  Every company I've worked with has their specific code on a server backed up every day.

My only thoughts are this:
1. The company working on the product (Paragon Studios) was disassembled / the servers were recommissioned and their memory wiped for their new use
2. The game was never going to see the light of day again so any software and hardware required would not be needed for the game.
3. The server backups with the data were reused with for more current data after a certain time period had elapsed. 

These reasons are the only things that make sense to me as to why they wouldn't have any of the data.  From a software standpoint I would have kept at least a backup of the Paragon Studios work.  Like I said in a previous post:  all the work and effort were paid for and I would consider that valuable enough to store the information. 

I'll hold my tongue on the rest of my opinions for now.

And they very well may have it. This is just what the team was shown after what was probably a cursory search. In time I suspect they could and would find much more. But when and what will it push the cost to? The search itself will have to be figured into the cost.

[MWRuger]

To me, "not available" is a way of sugarcoating "We have it but are not going to even discuss giving it to you."

If that is the case, depending on how the contract is written, the mystery buyers might be forbidden from using it even if a copy were to surface from someone else.

Really hope you are wrong about this. I could foresee issues with developing new tools if they were too similar to old ones. Let's hope not.

[FloatingFatMan]

To me, "not available" is a way of sugarcoating "We have it but are not going to even discuss giving it to you."

If that is the case, depending on how the contract is written, the mystery buyers might be forbidden from using it even if a copy were to surface from someone else.

Whilst not impossible, I really can't see any reason why they wouldn't want to sell the source too when there's someone who really wants to buy it.

It's not like it's any use to them, and they'd hardly need it as a future bargaining chip when they can just bargain NOW for it...

[Ironwolf]

To me, "not available" is a way of sugarcoating "We have it but are not going to even discuss giving it to you."

If that is the case, depending on how the contract is written, the mystery buyers might be forbidden from using it even if a copy were to surface from someone else.

Speculation on my part follows not any inside info:

This is quite possible. I mean let's work this through logically as a business would.

1. I sell you the snapshot of the game at Issue 24 and the IP rights for say $1 million
2. If you want the game engine rights to develop and the source code along with everything else that you can get the game running immediately and can start possibly competing with US - well that we may not have available as an option right now. If later after you unwind the game and get it running with a growing player base and a COH2 ready for release, now we might offer it to you.

While not directly - they are competing for customer entertainment dollars. If they delay the release of the game for 6-12 months and know CoH2 is 2 years out, then they can reassure their superiors that this is no threat to the NCSoft bottom line. You have to remember all companies have politics. We don't know the forces involved and if parts of the company may be resisting or stonewalling the data release.

This kind of intentional incompetence is very widespread and maybe the data recovery manager can't stand the Financial dude cutting the deals. You really can't tell if it is willful or just a political statement by someone in the company.

[BadWolf]

And they very well may have it. This is just what the team was shown after what was probably a cursory search. In time I suspect they could and would find much more. But when and what will it push the cost to? The search itself will have to be figured into the cost.

In a lot of ways, it's similar to the ongoing search for missing episodes of Doctor Who. Nobody is saying that what's already been recovered is all that is out there--but the BBC knows they don't have copies in any of the obvious places to look, so they're saying that it's not available.

[chuckv3]

LOL, shall we create a pool and bet on the page?   ;)
Losers have to join the winner's SG for -x- levels to boost his/her prestige to astronomical levels right out of the gate?

I'll guess page 400 for the "we got it" announcement, and page 1000 (I'm guessing 4 to 6 months later) for "here's where to download a new client to start playing"

[FloatingFatMan]

I'll guess page 400 for the "we got it" announcement, and page 1000 (I'm guessing 4 to 6 months later) for "here's where to download a new client to start playing"

We'll be at page 1000 in a couple of weeks at the current rate (with default page view settings).

[Angel Phoenix77]

I'll guess page 400 for the "we got it" announcement, and page 1000 (I'm guessing 4 to 6 months later) for "here's where to download a new client to start playing"

I agree with most of what you said. but I think 1000 pages is a abit low the announcement of go here to download the downloader, ,I would say for that page 2500 going at the rate we are :).

[Codewalker]

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