New efforts!

[FloatingFatMan]

The Blue Death Screen Makers?  That does not compute!   :P

No. :p The other BDSM community! ;)

[Harpospoke]

You are definitely reading way more into what he's saying than is necessary.  He's expressing his opinion on why a "clean slate" might benefit the game/players.  Nowhere does he say "I demand a clean slate".  Which is what you keep reading into it, even though it's been said numerous times, that is not what he's saying.

I used his exact word.  Not "demand"...he said he hoped for a clean slate.   That is hoping that I lose my characters.

I realize he has not given any thought to how his hope will effect me...but it would have a very profound negative effect on me.

But you have lost your characters.  Unless the character/account data returns with the game, you have.  Nothing changes that.

I understand that.   I hope we get our characters back.  Notice how my "hope" does not have a negative effect on your playstyle?

[Harpospoke]

I agree... He literally said the words "I don't care how other people play," so I don't see how that is presenting any sort of "demand" that people should do exactly what he wants. He "hopes" it's a clean slate, because he feels there won't be any PL'ing going on (which I disagree with--mainly because people will be who they are no matter how they start), but he's not making any sort of "rule sheet" others have to follow.

I used the word "hope".  (the word "demand" was put in by a different poster and then attributed to me?)  He hopes I lose my characters.  That's the truth.   He may not be thinking about the full extent of what he is hoping for, but that does not change the result of this "hope".

That said, I'm sure we ALL want our characters back...

Not true.  There have been several people in this very thread who have expressed a hope that we all lose our characters.  I know they don't word it that way...but that is indeed what they are hoping for.

If anything, I think this thread could be used as reference material for the new devs when they want to see what "general consensus" the more dedicated members of the CoH community have arrived at in terms of what they want.

I agree.  That's why I feel a need to speak up.

[Fridgy Daiere]

So just for fun, on what page do you folks think we will get the info -game aquired-?  :)

According to my calculations it should be on page 554.

LOL, shall we create a pool and bet on the page?   ;)
Losers have to join the winner's SG for -x- levels to boost his/her prestige to astronomical levels right out of the gate?

[BadWolf]

If EVERYTHING is a blank slate there won't be much PLing the first few days and even if there is SOME ... I think there will still be more people who missed the game who actually just want to play the game by running content.

Honestly, I think that PLing will be far more prevalent if everyone starts from scratch. If we get our old characters back, then the people who want to play the endgame content will do just that, and the people who want to play the old levels will make a new character for that specific purpose. If we all start from scratch, then there is going to be a sizeable contingent of players who see their first job as getting back to where they were at sunset, and they will recreate and PL all their old characters to 50 in rapid succession. And when other players see them do that, they'll join in, because hey, it's a lot easier to decide not to PL than it is to turn down an offer to bump your character to 50 right now. :)

Obviously, this is all a moot speculation, because we have no power to affect the outcome. It's all up to the Powers That Be, and all we can do is wait for more Ironwolf updates (about which, thanks for the latest one!) But I think that a blank slate will see at least a temporary surge in PL activity.

[Harpospoke]

I dunno what you're reading, but it sure as hell isn't anything posted by Burnt Toast...

Let's review it then.

What I would hope for with a clean slate is more people WILLING to do some of the low level content.

What does this mean?

First, he is definitely hoping for a clean slate.  That means he is hoping I lose my characters.  Let's not sugar-coat what that means.

Second, he is hoping more people are willing to do something he wants them to do.   Tell me what your interpretation is.

If EVERYTHING is a blank slate there won't be much PLing the first few days and even if there is SOME ... I think there will still be more people who missed the game who actually just want to play the game by running content.

Maybe you missed that part?   Is that not an attempt to define what "playing the game" is?   Tell me your interpretation.

[Deadflame2]

I used his exact word.  Not "demand"...he said he hoped for a clean slate.   That is hoping that I lose my characters.

I realize he has not given any thought to how his hope will effect me...but it would have a very profound negative effect on me.I understand that.   I hope we get our characters back.  Notice how my "hope" does not have a negative effect on your playstyle?

He "hoped" for a clean slate.  You are taking it negatively and personal, which is rather silly.  Regardless, his entire "hope" seems to be more so directly related to the assumption data would be unavailable.  You are reading more into it than necessary.

[Luna Eclypse]

At this point nothing has changed and due to the nature of the deal - it will take a while to finish. NCSoft does not at this point - appear to have the original source code. Other data like that for users is a maybe. What it appears they have - at this point - is a disk image of the final issue 24. NCSoft also does not appear to have any documentation or development tools - at this point.

None of these issues is a deal killer and in fact helps reduce the price as work will have to be done to be able to get the game running again.

Folks like Codewalker, Downix or Arcana may be able to explain what would be needed to reverse engineer this into a working game. I know Downix said he was thinking it might take 6-12 months to get this going - at this point.

I keep saying - at this point because it could change, NCSoft may find more or another source may have something they were sitting on. The team has said in messages that this could be an ongoing things where NCSoft finds more stuff as time passes. Obviously all of these things affect the price and conditions of sale. If suddenly NCSoft hits the jackpot and finds everything - a year from now - what happens? This is not an easy deal and just remember - this game was not shutdown with the intention of selling it later. It was in storage. I really think if we could have hindsight of what we know now a deal could have been done far earlier and not trying to find a 2 year old closed games backup data.

For your own sanity just hang in there as it is very likely the next real movement will be a yes or no - or possibly both. In a deal like this NCSoft may go the way of Cryptic/NCSoft sale and ask for a 2 year deal or some other condition. That is what both sides are working out now. It will take a while to work through each step. Just remember it is easier for NCSoft to do nothing, they are showing respect for our community for even bothering to make a deal. It has been a while since a serious offer was made on the game. I believe it was completely off the NCSoft radar.

I will monitor this thread and chip in when possible - but it is going to take a while at this stage for anything to happen. I do know if NCSoft was going to try and republish CoH - it would not be easy and they would have to spend time and money to get it going as well. In spite of people thinking - it is simple just turn it on! The servers will have been wiped and reused long ago. All that is left is backups. Try not to drive yourself crazy and enjoy the ride, something like this is not completely new but I do believe it will send ripples all over the gaming world.

Thanks for the update, Ironwolf. I'm totally cool with having to start over if necessary. I said in a previous post, it's about the journey more than the destination. And I mean, for how LONG ago Luna had hit level 50 (Issue 5, maybe?) and remembering the different ways I've respec'd her over time, I'll definitely be able to do it smarter than before.

If NCsoft can't find any documentation or backup account files, thanks for looking anyway and we appreciate it. I reckon a large portion of our community will be able to help the new devs out with reverse engineering anything and what not. And maybe some former Paragon devs might have some personal backups kicking around at home they wouldn't mind contributing.

[gypsyav]

Honestly, I think that PLing will be far more prevalent if everyone starts from scratch. If we get our old characters back, then the people who want to play the endgame content will do just that, and the people who want to play the old levels will make a new character for that specific purpose. If we all start from scratch, then there is going to be a sizeable contingent of players who see their first job as getting back to where they were at sunset, and they will recreate and PL all their old characters to 50 in rapid succession. And when other players see them do that, they'll join in, because hey, it's a lot easier to decide not to PL than it is to turn down an offer to bump your character to 50 right now. :)

Obviously, this is all a moot speculation, because we have no power to affect the outcome. It's all up to the Powers That Be, and all we can do is wait for more Ironwolf updates (about which, thanks for the latest one!) But I think that a blank slate will see at least a temporary surge in PL activity.

Yep, this is how I see it too. It would also set an example for new players as to being how the game is played. Imagine someone who's never played before starting the game and finding a sizable chunk of people racing to 50 and not taking the time to get to know the story. They may think that's the expected way to play and miss out on a lot they may otherwise enjoy.

If everyone starts with their old accounts then there will be fewer examples of people power leveling and new players will be less likely to be influenced by it.

[adarict]

I know there are a number of people here who are or have worked for software development companies.  I currently work for one, though not as a coder.  Something that has boggled me throughout this project is, how can NCSoft not have the source code?  We still have the source code for our old DOS version of our program from the late 80s, as well as our 16-bit Windows version.  It wasn't until the last couple of years that we started using SourceSafe to check in all of our code.  In the old days, code was stored all over the place, but always had everything in at least one place, and we have maintained it through the years.  Granted, the company I work for is a multi-national software company in a pretty narrow field, and we do have some regulations we have to follow that is a bit more strict than what a game company would have, but still.  Is it really so common for established development groups to NOT maintain copies of all of their source code?  I would think, just for purposes of copyright enforcement, they would want to keep copies.

Just to clarify, I am not trying to start an argument, or say that NCSoft is lying, or whatever.  I am genuinely curious if this is something common.

[Harpospoke]

He "hoped" for a clean slate.  You are taking it negatively and personal, which is rather silly.  Regardless, his entire "hope" seems to be more so directly related to the assumption data would be unavailable.  You are reading more into it than necessary.

A person is hoping that I lose my characters and you are surprised I am taking it personally?   ;D   

Assuming the data isn't available is not going to effect what a person hopes for.   

[Super Firebug]

Well, it seems that it'll still be a few more weeks before any actual deal is finalized and signed. And then, after that, several months before the game can be brought online again. So I, for one, can get back to what real-life stuff has been waiting while I've been glued to my computer (and, thereby, avoid sorting through another long argument). And not just real-life stuff: I've downloaded Paragon Wiki's info on each of the ATs and their power sets, and the info on SG bases and base items, so I can plan my base rebuild, plot out builds for new characters, etc. After spending almost two years in Champions, that should help to break the rust off of my memories, and re-acquaint me with how CoX works.

[Codewalker]

Something that has boggled me throughout this project is, how can NCSoft not have the source code?

Ironwolf's first post on the subject was that the code and/or character data "might not be available". While it's a subtle distinction, that phrasing doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as not having it.

[FloatingFatMan]

Let's review it then.
What does this mean?

First, he is definitely hoping for a clean slate.  That means he is hoping I lose my characters.  Let's not sugar-coat what that means.

Second, he is hoping more people are willing to do something he wants them to do.   Tell me what your interpretation is.Maybe you missed that part?   Is that not an attempt to define what "playing the game" is?   Tell me your interpretation.

Again, you're not reading his words.

"What I would hope for with a clean slate is more people WILLING to do some of the low level content."

That WITH makes ALL the difference. What he's saying is, IF we have a clean slate, he hopes more people will be willing to do low level content.  You're missing the WITH and that completely changes the sentence.

And his HOPE is not projecting a demand on anyone. He's merely hoping people would be willing to do the low level content instead of power levelling.  That's a perfectly reasonable hope, and by NO means, a demand.

[Angel Phoenix77]

Again, you're not reading his words.

"What I would hope for with a clean slate is more people WILLING to do some of the low level content."

That WITH makes ALL the difference. What he's saying is, IF we have a clean slate, he hopes more people will be willing to do low level content.  You're missing the WITH and that completely changes the sentence.

And his HOPE is not projecting a demand on anyone. He's merely hoping people would be willing to do the low level content instead of power levelling.  That's a perfectly reasonable hope, and by NO means, a demand.

I personally love the low to mid level range myself :) even some of the mid to high level content is good.
I wont mind starting over as long as I can spend money on costumes, character slots, and powers :), oh and vet power badges.

[Samuraiko]

So just for fun, on what page do you folks think we will get the info -game aquired-?  :)

According to my calculations it should be on page 554.

Since I have 50 posts per page as my default, and we're up to 126 now...

According to my settings, I'm guessing 350-375.

That factors in Ironwolf's updates, the RAMPANT speculation that starts as a result of each update, the explanation of each update, the conspiracy theories from each update, the "thank yous" that result,  the new arguments, the occasional mod post reminding people to stop arguing, the DELETION of said arguments, the resuscitation of various arguments, the continuation of various arguments...

Yeah, 350-375.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

[Deadflame2]

A person is hoping that I lose my characters and you are surprised I am taking it personally?   ;D   

Assuming the data isn't available is not going to effect what a person hopes for.

Let's put this into perspective here.  You are taking it personally and he never once said he hopes you lose your characters.  This negativity is something you've attached to the whole conversation.

[Angel Phoenix77]

So just for fun, on what page do you folks think we will get the info -game aquired-?  :)

According to my calculations it should be on page 554.

If I can get in on this, my guess would be page 425

[FloatingFatMan]

Let's put this into perspective here.  You are taking it personally and he never once said he hopes you lose your characters.  This negativity is something you've attached to the whole conversation.

All from skipping over a single word (several times!) that completely alters the meaning of the sentence...

[mrultimate]

It's also used by the BDSM community. :p

TMI :P