New efforts!

[Goddangit]

Obviously you never read all of the Lore AMAs... the way in which the well worked was discussed in much more detail, and I am confident in saying that it actually did NOT change anyone's origin by having the well involved.  What the problem was, was that the information that was released to us was in a slow trickle, and we never got to see the larger picture in-game, which would have been quite illuminating.  Our information, in addition to being slowly given was also all filtered through the perspective of an NPC who had his own ulterior motives and wasn't being completely honest with us, the players.  These factors combined to form an image of the Incarnate System and it's storyline that wasn't entirely accurate and left a bad taste in many players' mouths.

I learned to get over it, and integrate the powers into my back-stories as much as possible, I even chose my Lore Pets and such based solely on how I could integrate them into my character's existing powers.  For instance, I used Polar Lights pets due to the fact that they could be construed as miniature singularities in use by my Gravity Controller.

Just so you can be sure to see it: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA

No, I haven't read them, and thank you for the link.  When the first Ask Me Anything came out I was too depressed to read it.  If the sale is successful I'll read up before the relaunch.  In any case, all that came out after the closing of the game.  If they meant it to be an enhancement to a character's present power origins instead of a replacement, all I can say is I wish they would have made that plainer from the outset instead of trying to be clever.

[MWRuger]

That depends on the particulars of the project, of the nature of the return, etc. Too many variables to know at this point.

Kinda what I expected. You're right of course. I guess if i was still active on CoT I wouldn't know how to take this news. I guess we'll all find out.

[Golden Girl]

You aren't alone.  I hope I can remember how to respond to a tell.  I've forgotten so much.  But it will be fun relearning.

Backspace, type, enter :P

[Golden Girl]

I'm of the opinion, though, that I24 should be released, then CoH 2 should get going.

So we get the game back, but it goes into maintenance mode?

[Brigadine]

So I've seen a lot of bickering about balance related stuff. I have never seen an MMO that is truly 100% balanced. This game probably was one of the best, but obviously could be better. That being said... are we there yet?

[Golden Girl]

I have never seen an MMO that is truly 100% balanced.

It's not possible, and too many devs spend too long trying to be the first ones  to do it - and it's especially silly when a game is focused on PvE.

[Kaos Arcanna]

I am definitely hoping the successor efforts are not going to give up.

Even if COH DOES come back (and I am still thinking people are not just counting their chickens before they hatch; they're counting them before they've even been laid) its closure had taught me not to count on any game lasting forever. I'd much rather have several options for a type of game I greatly enjoyed rather than just one, even if the one was the original.

[JanessaVR]

I'm of the opinion, though, that I24 should be released, then CoH 2 should get going.

The problem is, I23 was up and stable, I24 was still being tested and debugged, and you know what the game was like right after a new issue went live, for at least a week or so until the first patches for the new issue came out.  Without a full dev team that truly knows the code, sticking with I23 would be the safer call.

Not that I don't really want I24.

[chuckv3]

It's not possible, and too many devs spend too long trying to be the first ones  to do it - and it's especially silly when a game is focused on PvE.

GG, with all due respect (lots, of course!), balance in regard to PvE is NOT silly and it is completely possible, and in fact I think CoH nailed it. That's why it was compelling enough for us die-hard fans to want it back. Good PvE balance is just this: no obvious or simple formula, while not frustratingly hard or cryptic. I think CoH eventually had it pretty good from 1 through 50+++ (with some obvious warts that could still be smoothed over).

As pointed out numerous times in this very thread, every other MMORPG falls into either the simple formula (holy trinity), too easy, or frustratingly-hard category. That's exactly why we want our well-balanced and well-thought-out game back.

[roribeedm]

GG, with all due respect (lots, of course!), balance in regard to PvE is NOT silly and it is completely possible, and in fact I think CoH nailed it. That's why it was compelling enough for us die-hard fans to want it back. Good PvE balance is just this: no obvious or simple formula, while not frustratingly hard or cryptic. I think CoH eventually had it pretty good from 1 through 50+++ (with some obvious warts that could still be smoothed over).

As pointed out numerous times in this very thread, every other MMORPG falls into either the simple formula (holy trinity), too easy, or frustratingly-hard category. That's exactly why we want our well-balanced and well-thought-out game back.

The PVE balance in CoH was great...if they would have just left it alone. The problem was the PVP balance was bad, as it is with every single MMO ever released. Because of that imbalance the PVP players kept complaining, the devs kept tweaking and messing up what the PVE players were enjoying.

I really wish devs would set up separate stats for PVP and PVE. Skill x does y damage in PVE and z damage in PVP. Oh it's overpowered in PVP? Tweak z and leave y alone. Give the PVPers the constant balance tweaks they demand, let the PVEers enjoy the skills the way they want without having to worry that the complaining of the PVPers is going to screw up their builds.

[Mistress Urd]

So I've seen a lot of bickering about balance related stuff. I have never seen an MMO that is truly 100% balanced. This game probably was one of the best, but obviously could be better. That being said... are we there yet?

It took a long time and a lot of arm twisting to get the devs to admit to the shortcomings of Dominators and Stalkers. The changes were much needed.

[sindyr]

I strongly support keeping I24 in and debugging as we go.

I24 was the perfection of CoX - we should not lose it. :)

[Golden Girl]

GG, with all due respect (lots, of course!), balance in regard to PvE is NOT silly and it is completely possible, and in fact I think CoH nailed it.

I'm talking about the ridiculous nitpicking over small details - that some power sets/ATs are a bit weaker/stronger than others - which is especially silly in a comic book game, where so many choices are made because of character concepts rather than getting maximum performance.
For example, we all knows there's only one reason that CoH had a claws power set - so as long as claws aren't hugely under/overpowered compared with other melee sets, then they're fine - people will pick them for the cool factor and suitability for their character concepts. Another example would be travel powers - the mechanical purpose of a travel power is to move the player from one point to another faster than running/sprinting - in which case, super speed is quite a lot better than flight - but in a comic book game, flight's still going to get picked a heck of a lot.
Complaining that one power set has a combined recharge time that's 1.3 seconds slower than another set, or that one set has an overall 4% better DPS rate than another set is totally missing the point of the game - you're not competing with anyone, so as long as the majority of players are having fun with their chosen ATs and power sets and aren't finding them a struggle to play through the content with, then it's fine.

[Reiraku]

The PVE balance in CoH was great...if they would have just left it alone. The problem was the PVP balance was bad, as it is with every single MMO ever released. Because of that imbalance the PVP players kept complaining, the devs kept tweaking and messing up what the PVE players were enjoying.

I really wish devs would set up separate stats for PVP and PVE. Skill x does y damage in PVE and z damage in PVP. Oh it's overpowered in PVP? Tweak z and leave y alone. Give the PVPers the constant balance tweaks they demand, let the PVEers enjoy the skills the way they want without having to worry that the complaining of the PVPers is going to screw up their builds.

Yeah, it wasn't really happening like that. PvP players mostly complained about bugs (particularly the arena) and lack of options to PvP. The only power to receive a change because of PvP was Hurricane, which Castle felt was possibly too strong even after it was changed. Everything else was primarily PvE driven or in the case of i13, completely half baked and broken.

[LaughingAlex]

Yeah, it wasn't really happening like that. PvP players mostly complained about bugs (particularly the arena) and lack of options to PvP. The only power to receive a change because of PvP was Hurricane, which Castle felt was possibly too strong even after it was changed. Everything else was primarily PvE driven or in the case of i13, completely half baked and broken.

So he's the reason hurricane became useless in pvp against stalkers?  Sigh, no wonder I couldn't have fun with pvp.

[Mageman]

I think everyone is counting their chickens before they're hatched. First things first. Get the game back up and running. Worry after on what to do next. I don't care if we go back to I1, I just want to get into Paragon City and play. I really would prefer to play a Mastermind (my favorite - you were your own team which made PvE very easy as you progressed). Maybe get the devs to allow a Mastermind to have /Kinetics - now that would be amazing!

Still, we need to wait until we get back online. Then you can argue about what comes next. I'm still trying to find a post from Iron Wolf.

[Fanta]

I think everyone is counting their chickens before they're hatched. First things first. Get the game back up and running. Worry after on what to do next. I don't care if we go back to I1, I just want to get into Paragon City and play. I really would prefer to play a Mastermind (my favorite - you were your own team which made PvE very easy as you progressed). Maybe get the devs to allow a Mastermind to have /Kinetics - now that would be amazing!

Still, we need to wait until we get back online. Then you can argue about what comes next. I'm still trying to find a post from Iron Wolf.

If we go back to I1 there won't be any MMs.  ;)

[Reiraku]

So he's the reason hurricane became useless in pvp against stalkers?  Sigh, no wonder I couldn't have fun with pvp.

Sort of. You see, in base raids, hurricane could repel tick people through holes and off the map. It was effectively broken in that capacity. The change you might be referring to though was separate in that AoE debuffs no longer would interrupt Assassin's Strike, which happened close to the same time. Hurricane was still an effective debuff against stalkers, but you had to keep moving or you elevated your own risk.

[Mageman]

If we go back to I1 there won't be any MMs.  ;)

I know this. However, this would remove ED and the Fire/Devices Blaster would again be ultimate in awesome! If I'm not mistaken, in I1, you were also limited to level 40....

[Fanta]

I know this. However, this would remove ED and the Fire/Devices Blaster would again be ultimate in awesome! If I'm not mistaken, in I1, you were also limited to level 40....

No fire/fire tank? I didn't start playing until January 2005.