New efforts!

[CG]

A simple question though, why would they want to keep the engine? Was it in case they decided to do something with it later?

That would be my guess.  Unlike the IP, the engine can be re-used for different games. 

[Ironwolf]

The reason for why they wanted the game engine and not the IP I can only speculate on.

When they bought the game from Cryptic it included both the IP and engine. The only actual hard asset they got from the deal was the engine. The IP only has worth within the 1 game. The engine may be used for other MMO's or to change the engine to update it.

I can see why you would sell the IP and game for peanuts and yet hold the engine for several million.

[alphajaybo]

So the plan is to get someone to either buy Just the IP for CoH or simply just lease it from them?

For some reason i feel really happy and optimistic about this, sure its a longshot. But its better than simply just giving up and letting the game stay dead!

[Ironwolf]

The idea is to explain that the game is still viable. Explain the Earth and Beyond effort and the agreement they have with EA.

Show the $600,000+ that was raised by the community for an unseen Spiritual successor.

Explain it is certain that at some point a reverse engineered game may appear. Then show the value of having the original game released and having the game engine leased for a nominal fee.

I like capitalism and there would be incredible good will and millions of dollars of free advertising for such a move by NCSoft.

[Styrj]

Not to mention the tens of thousands of ecstatic ;D CoHV players to get their city back!  And, it would shed a totally different light on NCSoft.

[Kaos Arcanna]

Hm. I think my post didn't make it.  :-[

I thought that Cryptic just leased the engine to NcSoft for COH as well as gave them the right to use it in another game.

If NcSoft had plans to use the engine in another game you'd think they would have kept the studio that was expert in using it ... 0.o

Still, my doubts aside, I would be happy to get our game back in one form or the other. :D

[alphajaybo]

Getting the game back is gonna be awesome! We just need to find the perfect game plan, once we get that then we should be set,

I have, myself, full confidence that if all do their duty, if nothing is neglected, and if the best arrangements are made, as they are being made, we shall prove ourselves once again able to defend our Island home, to ride out the storm of war, and to outlive the menace of tyranny, if necessary for years, if necessary alone. At any rate, that is what we are going to try to do. That is the resolve of His Majesty's Government-every man of them. That is the will of Parliament and the nation. The British Empire and the French Republic, linked together in their cause and in their need, will defend to the death their native soil, aiding each other like good comrades to the utmost of their strength. Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

Winston Churchill^^

[Thunder Glove]

I'm definitely looking forward to this.  I hope NCSoft will get over themselves and see that this is a good idea for everyone.

[Ironwolf]

Where the pitch is at:
1.   Made an approach to the Earth and Beyond folks to find out how they managed to get EA's approval.
2.   Have a name at NCSoft – but I am hoping to get the name of the person they contacted on the original attempt to buy the game. So if Quinch, VV, Ammon, Brian Clayton or Matt Miller can be reached to contact me with the name that would be great.
3.   Started writing the pitch and could use some help on research for those with good Search Fu. The search would be on games now being run by players to help show successful precedence.
4.   Ideas on how we would administer, develop and market the game. Obviously if we did get the game back up there would be an initial surge that would mean we really, really, really need to have everything right once out of Restore Beta. The last possible thing we want is to get the game up and have it be a hot mess.

I am acting and planning as if it would be a natural thing for them to say yes. We need to plan for the chance they step back and say – ok – how are you going to do it? I have 2 folks that have volunteered to help that are not normal posters but lurkers that have been waiting for a chance to help.

[Mister Bison]

Meh, if this works I'll be damned... Because it seems phony and more a longshot than anything (my opinion). Shouldn't we, like, ask if they are open for discussion, before working on anything?

But I'll repeat what I told a long time ago. If it's a matter of running a game, we can do it. If it's a matter of reimplementing the game in an engine, we can do it. If it's a matter of recoding the engine, we can do it. Hell, I even have started doing the last one alone, in a week the framework was nearing completion as much as being able to load 90% of the powers in the latest City Power Database (although in a Titan-particular format). Even if it was only considering mechanics of i7 and prior, and nothing geometric or physics-related, it's still something.

Again, my opinion.

[Ironwolf]

Phony?

I had spoken to some of the original team a few times. All of them slowly left, except Rae. I spoke to her about it and she gave me some inside information that I have passed on without violating things I was asked to keep out of the public. Let's say I get a name to contact and I publically mention it - now 500 people spam the person - how will that look?

You want details of who I am? I am just a system admin at State Farm Insurance. I am also known as Sir Michael Au Cluin of House Ironwolf in the SCA.
http://chivalry.midrealm.org/peer_new.php?input=152

All of my personal data is there. I have nothing to hide, make no promises and will continue whether you agree or not. I have asked for one thing - help or potential help if it works. You say just talk first and if you go in without a plan and without a clue - the game will remain shut. Other people have done this before and I have asked some of them for help in how to approach it.

I want no money. I don't want to run the game personally as I just bought a house built in 1871 and a barn built in 1890. They both need work to restore. However if it means I use some of my time to get the game back and find skilled peope to run it and maybe continue development - awesome.

If they laugh at me and say what an idiot, I still tried. I waited, I watched and I checked the site several times a week. Nothing was happening and now "something" is however lame or far-fetched it is from my heart and I will try.

[Styrj]

Mister Bison:  This may well be a longshot, but phony? I seriously doubt it! Why you would take a personal wack at someone's integrity like that is beyond me. 

[Drauger9]

Agreed, the worst thing that could happen is NCSoft says "No."

That's it, he's only asking if people are willing to help IF we're giving the green light by NCSoft.

I for one applaud his efforts and if I had the time. I'd offer to help, I mean if the game was up and running. I could help with in game stuff like getting people unstuck or something. I guess, since most of what I did in game was farm and it'd be nothing for me to exit mission. Go to another one, teleport someone across the map, then go back to farming. :P

[r00tb0ySlim]

A few thoughts:

• Will an LLC be planned or started in order to facilitate the IP sale/lease and subsequent operation of the game (servers, marketing, development, etc...)?
• Is a detailed business plan being formulated that includes intent and viability?
• Will the pitch include the above information?
• Has fundraising been taken into consideration to cover the IP sale/lease and game operation or will corporate backers be courted?  If an existing company is to be utilized for spearheading, wouldn't it be a better idea to pitch said existing company and then to NCSoft with said company spearheading?
• If the pitch or resulting terms/contract require NCSofts continued involvement to any degree as overseers they will more than likely want compensation and as a result this endeavor will need to generate money.  How much money they will require is yet TBD and ideas as to how the game will generate money will need to be included in the pitch.

Please don't get me wrong, I love the idea and it could get traction, but IMO it requires an LLC or existing company to be included in the planning and subsequent pitch.

[Ironwolf]

A few thoughts:

• Will an LLC be planned or started in order to facilitate the IP sale/lease and subsequent operation of the game (servers, marketing, development, etc...)?
• Is a detailed business plan being formulated that includes intent and viability?
• Will the pitch include the above information?
• Has fundraising been taken into consideration to cover the IP sale/lease and game operation or will corporate backers be courted?  If an existing company is to be utilized for spearheading, wouldn't it be a better idea to pitch said existing company and then to NCSoft with said company spearheading?
• If the pitch or resulting terms/contract require NCSofts continued involvement to any degree as overseers they will more than likely want compensation and as a result this endeavor will need to generate money.  How much money they will require is yet TBD and ideas as to how the game will generate money will need to be included in the pitch.

Please don't get me wrong, I love the idea and it could get traction, but IMO it requires an LLC or existing company to be included in the planning and subsequent pitch.

This is exactly why I am trying to search out other groups who have restored games. I want to write to the NCSoft representative and have a plan in place. Not every detail figured out but some of the main obvious things addressed. Look if we can get some people involved how are skilled in handling this type of negotiations - I would be happy to exit stage left.

I have been thinking about the game and its future for quite a while now. In reality the game has little monetary value. It is however, to me like a work of art or a statue and has intrinsic value of its own. I applaud the new games being built and hope they pan out and all 3 have some level of success - having said that I think having City of Heroes running as a reference is valuable.

[Ironwolf]

I sent an email to a former officer of NC Interactive explaining our goals and to ask his opinion on this effort.

I also asked for permission to post his reply, for good or ill. Hopefully he will answer and let us see what possible hope there is in trying this longshot.

[LadyShin]

Maybe the reply might look like...

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=vsrteam.power-heberg.com%2FNCSoftLove.jpg


....


But seriously though, there's no harm in asking. :)

[alphajaybo]

Iron wolf i Pm'd you some things that may be useful. I'm not sure if it sent though, sent it through my phone which is playing up at the moment

[silvers1]

As a plan B, could you also float the option to them of just purchasing the IP?  We have 3 ongoing projects that could possibly be modified
to be CoH2 and I would really like to have our old villain groups back.  (assuming/hoping  the devs are willing of course to shift directions storywise )

[Ironwolf]

I wrote to Chris Chung former CEO of NC Interactive Inc. and this is why I continue to try - we have friends in places that we aren't even aware of.

My email and his reply follow (editted to omit personal data):

Good afternoon to the folks at Motiga!


I have a question I would like to direct to your CEO - Mr. Chris Chung on a game that was closed during his time at NCSoft. It isn't a criticism or complaint! It was to get his viewpoint on an effort some former players of City of Heroes are considering making to find a way to restore the game back to the public.


I know you have a lot on your plate heading a new company and as a gamer I wish you the best of luck! If I can have just a moment of your time it would be greatly appreciated and if you approve I would like to share your response to the CoH community (yes, one does still exist!). Our thought was to approach NCSoft with an offer to restore the City of Franchise to life in similar fashion as Earth and Beyond has been by the actual players. We would want NCSoft to have all IP rights and privileges and would never wish to violate those. We don't have a lot of ready cash on hand to offer to buy the game (however a spiritual successor of former players raised over $600,000 on Kickstart http://www.missingworldsmedia.com/home ) our thought was to see if we could try and restore the game as a new way to keep older software alive.


What we would like to do is to run the game and pay for all server and hosting costs via donations. We would also like to if they agreed, approach a few universities to continue development of the game via the use of students. We would also use students to accomplish other tasks such as marketing and in game support. This would allow the community to continue to play a game we love and also give a boost to the careers of future programmers, developers and other staff.


Any and all profits raised beyond actual running operations would be returned to NCSoft and all staff positions would be volunteers.


I know you have past experience with the operations of NCSoft and NC Interactive and would appreciate any advice you could give even if it isn't favorable.


Speaking on behalf of the Hail Mary Task Force community,



Mike Brafford

Cell: xxx-xxx-xxxx


Step by step walk the thousand-mile road.

Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men.

Miyamota Musashi 1580


From: Chris Chung [mailto:xxxxxx@motiga.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 05:19 PM
To: Mike Brafford
Subject: RE: A question on the past


Hi Mike,


I am very happy for your passion for City of Heroes. It's a game that's dear to my heart as well.


The decision to close the game was made well after I left the company. I left NCsoft in mid-2009, while the decision and the actual closure of the game happened in 2012.


I was one of the key decision makers when the opportunity to purchase the IP outright was presented to NCsoft. I thought it was a no brainer and I was happy to convince NCsoft to acquire it. When I heard of the announcement of the closure in 2012, I actually brought a buyer to work with the development team to purchase the game from NCsoft so the studio could continue to service it. When the deal didn't go through, I was as heartbroken as anyone on the team. I did that even though I was crazy busy running my own company. The reason I did that was because I loved the game, the development team headed by Brian, but most of all, I loved CoH community.


I also want you to know that I am an early pledged supporter of City of Titans. When I heard about this project, it literally brought tears to my eyes. I wish I could've helped even more but I put all my life savings in to the company that I am building. However, what you guys are doing reaffirmed everything I believed about the strength of CoH community.


On the City of Franchise, I am not sure this could be done with NCsoft. I frankly don't know the direction the company wants to take with the IP. The people that I was close to in the company have all left so I don't hear any "insider scoop" any more. J


I am not sure how much I can do to help but, if you need any advice, please feel free to reach out.



Thanks,

Chris