New efforts!

[Serpine]

My only big concern is with time-sensitive/exclusive unlockables that we had access to.

The CoV Collector's Edition version of the Arachnos logo comes to mind: I can't recall what other collector / preorder bits hadn't been just made vet rewards by that point but that logo in particular has a soft spot in my heart, as having that logo on a t-shirt in game got a comment from a dev running around as Ghost Widow one time.

Though honestly I wouldn't have an issue with things like that becoming available to everybody in a relaunch situation, as long as they *were* available in some manner.

[Fanta]

Please understand - if/when the deal goes through - the new owners will not have screwed over ANYONE.

They are working with NCSoft to get as much back as possible. It won't be easy to unpack what NCSoft shutdown. The game at this stage is not on one DVD or even in one collected form that you can just load on a server and fire up. Some of the tools were custom made, account data is just about a - not going to happen at this stage, Character data is a maybe. The new group had nothing to do with how NCSoft shutdown the game or in how or what they retained.

Please also realize the group doing this is trying as hard as they can to get the game back. It maybe that Issue 24 is the farthest CoH1 will go because it may be faster and easier to make CoH2! There are many obstacles. We are still fighting and trying and that is all we can do. The pressure is very heavy and I KNOW they feel the deep responsibility to the Community. They will get the game back in the best possible form if it is possible.

If it was easy - why would you need Heroes?

This is very much a response to the general train of thought of some within the thread that "take the easiest path" and don't make waves. We all understand, and want the game back, whatever it takes, but some of us refuse to settle for anything less than what is possible. No offence to the new team. We all know they didn't shut the game down, and expect they want the best for the game and community. Lots of luck to us all!

[Thirty-Seven]

[...]but some of us refuse to settle for anything less than what is possible.

Maybe I am being overly dense here... but what does that mean, exactly.

I mean, assuming the game comes back, we have exactly two options: settle for whatever they give us and don't play at all.  Also, why would they give us less than is possible?  Doesn't it behoove them to give us as much as they can?

I know I have been a vocal proponent of starting over (mostly because that's the most likely scenario anyway) but what?

[The Fifth Horseman]

I also tend to assume that all the AE content is trashed and will need to be rebuilt or built differently (assuming AE isn't some sub-system that will need its own restoration just to run in the first place, heck assuming WENTWORTH's isn't some sub-system that will need its own restoration)

I'd expect AE to be sufficiently separate from account data as to be useable regardless whether or not the "owning" account is present. May be wrong, though.

To start the game as it was when it closed, would they have to buy the physical servers the game was loaded on?

Could all that data conceivably be stored somewhere else, and then NC used those servers for something else?

I have no idea how all this works.

1. I remember rather clearly several mentions that the servers in question were all virtual machines running. Hence no, since there are no physical servers. (also, it's not one server - the authentication server was an entirely separate beast)
2. From what Ironwolf writes, I gather that the data has been spread between multiple systems. Which makes things harder, since there's a reasonable concern that not all of the software needed, in the versions that are needed, may be available any more.

[Fanta]

Maybe I am being overly dense here... but what does that mean, exactly.

I mean, assuming the game comes back, we have exactly two options: settle for whatever they give us and don't play at all.  Also, why would they give us less than is possible?  Doesn't it behoove them to give us as much as they can?

I know I have been a vocal proponent of starting over (mostly because that's the most likely scenario anyway) but what?

Of course people are gonna play if all else fails, but so many have been pushing for a new start like lemmings we feel the need to express our desire to retrieve characters. Please do what makes you happy, just don't think I should follow! 

[kiario]

I say, launch the game without char and account data and wih issue 23. This is the easiest option for the new owners to get it up runnig as fast as possible. There will be enoug obsticles just to get the game up and running.

[Thirty-Seven]

Of course people are gonna play if all else fails, but so many have been pushing for a new start like lemmings we feel the need to express our desire to retrieve characters. Please do what makes you happy, just don't think I should follow!

Who's "pushing for it"?  I mean, I am very positive about the prospect because I think there are some advantages, but " pushing" to the exclusion of exploring other options?  I don't think so.

Just because folks are being realists doesn't mean we are on the attack of the folks fighting to make it known at every possible turn (and turning this thread into a bizzarre debate that is probably two months too early in the process) that they WANT THEIR STUFFZ.

I mean, where did this go somewhat beligerant here?  Sure, some folks are more pleased than others about starting over, but people are starting to really dig in and make this into an argument.

There is no argument.

No one thinks that it'd be good to deprive folks of their stuff if it is possible to restore it just to be a malicious douche.  Not even me, and I'd almost prefer a restart if only for all the names to be freed up and so I'd actually be able to get in on the ground floor this go-round (I didn't start until around i10 originally).

Oh, and I only "think you should follow" in that its probably good to think about how you'd deal if you have to start over.  And because its the likely outcome.  Not because I need you on my non-existant team to fight the power of the evil "Character Wanters."

Join me, on the dark side... We are the... um... "Clean Slaters-?  No, that's dumb.  " Re-starters." That's worse... You get the idea.

[MWRuger]

I don't think a handful of people is "so many".

I think the majority, by far, want to get as much as they can. I know I do. I want it all back.

BUT

I'll take what I can get. It might not be optimal, but what we have now, nothing, is so far worse. My sister lives with me and loves the game. When I told her she was giddy with excitement. When i told her we might have to start from scratch, she frowned and "But I get to play, right?"

I think that sums it up.

It would be nice to have everything, but the only thing we have to have is the game.

I understand the time thing and how people's lives have changed. So maybe instead of stable of I/O'ed level 50 characters, we only have a few. It won't make it any less fun to play the ones we have. If it takes 20 years to build them all back, how old will you be in 20 years if you don't?

i say I'm gonna make all my toons again as soon as I log in, but the reality is I probably won't be able to afford all the slots I need to do so. I had over 100. Even cutting out copies on other servers there were at least 80. But over time I'll get them all back.

[Super Firebug]

I honestly don't see why the discussion is taking place. You can hope to get A, B and C along with getting the game back, but arguing about what we SHOULD get won't change what we DO get. Just make separate plans for your toons for whatever happens, and then wait to see what happens. It's like planning your day off: you make plan A for if it's sunny, and plan B for if it's raining. No need to have the claws out (or whatever your favorite attack power is).

[Thirty-Seven]

I think it's due to a natural human proclivity to divide and separate everything into mutually exclusive categories.  Unfortunately, that doesn't really apply here so well.

Especially since the two "camps" don't really exist, and in fact everyone here belongs in the same camp: the "I really wanna see CoH return" camp but also the "I hope my characters are there too so it feels more like home, but I'll deal if they aren't" camp.

[Solitaire]

Oh for the love of...

Can we just get back to being excited?

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

Agree, I'm just excited that we may get the game back, I'm not that bothered if we have to start over, or get our characters back, I just want to be able to play the game again. Can't people just be happy that there is a possibility the game could return?

[Thirty-Seven]

Can't people just be happy that there is a possibility the game could return?

I don't understand this PoV.  Just because we are arguing, doesn't mean we aren't also excited!  Why would we bother to argue about that which we aren't also passionate?

I mean, if anything, this whole thing makes me happy because it reminds me of the pointless discussions on the official forums!

[JaguarX]

I don't understand this PoV.  Just because we are arguing, doesn't mean we aren't also excited!  Why would we bother to argue about that which we aren't also passionate?

I mean, if anything, this whole thing makes me happy because it reminds me of the pointless discussions on the official forums!

indeed.

 It's also exciting to see the different aspects of what is making a person excited. Some yearn for their characters they spent lot of time creating and leveling up and some would gladly start over even if all their toons returned. I'm sure even some of the people that isn't too keen on starting over if they don't have to would do if they must if it means getting to play again. In the meantime, the different viewpoints are interesting.

[Antovaras]

Oh for the love of...

Can we just get back to being excited?

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

I never stopped being excited... I just spent the last two days up to my neck in Mids

[Solitaire]

I don't understand this PoV.  Just because we are arguing, doesn't mean we aren't also excited!  Why would we bother to argue about that which we aren't also passionate?

I mean, if anything, this whole thing makes me happy because it reminds me of the pointless discussions on the official forums!

I can understand that, but from what I'm reading there is arguing over stuff that hasn't come to pass yet, so I don't understand the PoV of arguing over stuff at the moment, once the deal is signed and the game is bought, then unleash the dogs of war  Maybe it's just that i'm to laid back.

[Odimodus]

I know there is a lot of hope for obtaining old accounts, and of course everyone agrees that 1st is 'Get the game'.

  If everyone had to start over from scratch though, I believe it would in the long run build a stronger community. The major downside of that, though, would be the potential loss of names. Everyone would be in a mad dash to make characters just for the names. But other than that, there would be a flurry of activity with people making new supergroups and leveling up together. I didn't have a 50, so I don't have as much skin in the game as most of y'all.

 

[FloatingFatMan]

I can understand that, but from what I'm reading there is arguing over stuff that hasn't come to pass yet, so I don't understand the PoV of arguing over stuff at the moment, once the deal is signed and the game is bought, then unleash the dogs of war  Maybe it's just that i'm to laid back.

I just want the game back. Anything after that is gravy.

[Thirty-Seven]

I can understand that, but from what I'm reading there is arguing over stuff that hasn't come to pass yet, so I don't understand the PoV of arguing over stuff at the moment, once the deal is signed and the game is bought, then unleash the dogs of war  Maybe it's just that i'm to laid back.

Well, until the deal is inked, we don't know anything for sure.  And, in the lack of knowledge, all we can do is speculate.  Some, are taking the speculation a bit more seriously than others, and some are arguing about it because they like their speculation better, etc. ad nauseum.

I mean, it's not like we can talk about the actual game really... oh wait, we could.    (Of course, that'd get us WAY off-topic... which we are already just to keep this thread jumping.  But, now that it's pinned/stickied, there isn't any need to bump it or anything really.)

[Ironwolf]

I know for my own part - I am trying to explain that the game if the deal going through is coming back piece-meal bit by bit.

It was not stored in perfect condition to fire it back up. It was stored to retain the basic game and engine. They are finding out now that getting the game itself up and going at Issue 24 (it was only a week away from release) may be the only option at the start. I pointed out in an earlier post - there are problems once it starts. It may not be possible to easily develop it going forward. I likely am not explaining it well but the game as a game is workable. All the other parts of it are completely uncertain.

Personal financial account data (at this point) is completely out of the question. Existing Charater data maybe available but how do you retrieve it and match it to what player? Databases are great unless the tools to work with them were all custom made or the financial data they are tied to is not immediately available. These are the sort of problems they are having to cope with. It helps in some ways as it allows the price to be reduced as the game is not easily able to be improved from the beginning.

Now the game engine itself - the purchase or leasing may not be in place from the start or may not be reasonably negotiated - again let me highlight at this point. The game can be up and running in a reasonable time, but all the other things you may want are going to be either nearly impossible or a thing added on at a later point.

This is why I am saying that Issue 24 may be the last step in CoH1. Depending on the success of the future efforts it might be a year before you get the engine rights to develop the game. So then do you buy the engine or advance to CoH2? It would seem at the start the game would be better served to go forward with CoH2 and port to UnReal4 game engine. Apparently the game itself is on the block but the engine - the part where you can alter the game is harder to get.

I know this will spawn more questions but as the talks go forward more information will come out. Let's try this as an example - the figures and such are not the actual prices I don't know the real ones - this is an example of what they face:
You speak to NCSoft and they say the game, the part that you can get up and running is say $1 million, the Engine to lease is another $1million and to buy is another $6 million. You then find out that most of the tools used on the engine are custom made and NCSoft does not have them!

What do you do? If you just get the game running it costs you $1 million. If you lease the 12 year old game engine that doesn't have any tools to work with it - you pay another $1 million for something that may take you 2 years to develop. You can quickly see some of the decisions are not easy but are logical. It may be the best spent money to get the game - start it up and let people play. Then as things move forward you try and add more things in as NCSoft releases them.

I hope this makes sense? In spite of folks saying well if NCSoft brings it back........they won't. They also do not have in their hands all of the stuff either. They themselves could not just turn it on and would also have to weigh the costs versus the rewards. I am writing this so you understand - this deal is hard to make, this is not just a get the stuff and let's go problem. It has layers on layers of trouble. I hope I have explained this all correctly as I have been given the information. It is not simple and it is not straightforward.

It is a hot mess as someone once said. The good part is getting the game up and running seems more likely as things progress - the thing is the form that game takes is what we just don't know.

[HEATSTROKE]

 Thanks Ironworf. That does help to understand that this is a monumental effort that is going to require time, diligence, patience and good fortune.

 I have always believed that a huge part of the negotiation isnt just CoH but the future.. CoH2 and the rights to develop that game as well.

 My thought was always that they would release a CoH Legacy.. hopefully with Issue 24 and then work to transition as much as possible to a new engine... which would be developed further...

 STEP ONE.. GET THE GAME...