Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7602725 times)

Burnt Toast

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13480 on: December 01, 2014, 09:03:25 AM »
As the founder of the SG Fruit Salad... I will chime in.


I see both points here...
1. It is not my place to tell anyone how to play their game.
2. I do not personally believe in attack-less (or minimal attacking) Empaths.


It has been proven ad nauseam that Empaths are more effective by using their buffs and attacks instead of just their healing powers. An "arrested" baddie does not do damage...and the best way to arrest a baddie??? Contribute to attacking him/her. So what does this mean?? Absolutely nothing. Why?? Because if you choose to run an attack-less Empath...that is your choice. If that's what is fun for you...then go for it. Now I will say this:


When I ran into attack-less Emps... I always tried to politely explain why SOME attacks are better than none. I would also coach them on their builds if they so asked...especially one's without Fortitude. What they did with that guidance/information was up to them.


What all this boils down to is do what you want to do with your toons... to have fun. But... I also think it is ok to try and educate people in a VERY polite way about builds and effective teaming; especially with Empathy toons. When you come across as arrogant...demanding...rude... people won't listen to you degrade their play-style...no matter how correct you are in your statements.


My Empathy Defenders:
Fixxer
Fixxer Upper
Fixxee
Fixxie
Fixxalicious


My Empathy Controllers:
Pharmacist
Dr. Rockhard
Control Phreak
Fall Down Go Boom








Triplash

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13481 on: December 01, 2014, 09:31:27 AM »
What I found really awesome about City was that there were *so many* options for what you could do.

Wanna stick to the Holy Trinity? Hey, if that's your thing then go to town. Wanna make a character who really does only use Brawl? There's a guy who actually did that, and you should hear him describe what he could do with that character. Wanna make an attackless Emp? You sure could! They'd heal like a champ. And how about making an Emp who's not just *fun* to solo, but can take on a +5 boss and his gang with just a few insps and win? I know for a fact that was possible, because I did it myself. Petless Masterminds... Humanform Khelds... those maniac blappers... catgirls who never RPed... the city was chock full of incredible things that should never have worked, and in any other game they probably wouldn't have. But in our city, they weren't merely *possible*... with enough effort, they could be stunningly powerful.

One of the many amazing facets of City was that, not only were weird and crazy ideas possible in the first place... not only were they functional against default difficulty settings... but some of them could be turned into utter monsters. Take support ATs for example - your control and buff/debuff types. The original design said they should be some of the squishiest characters around. So what did the players go and do? They figured out a way to make those ATs some of the strongest possible characters in the entire freaking game. ATs with a full arsenal of debuffs and controls were the ones who could do things like solo Giant Monsters, and Archvillains at +4.

THAT'S what made City awesome to me. THAT'S what made me feel like I was superpowered, and that I was surrounded by people who were superpowered too. It wasn't just that you could do whatever activity you liked. It was that you could take practically any character concept you wanted, no matter how bizarre thematically or mechanically, and bring it to life. You could make it look the way you wanted, and while some cases took more effort than others, you could usually make it playable and fun. Yes, there were limits. Of course there were. But compared to other games, those limits were sky-high.

Nyghtshade

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13482 on: December 01, 2014, 01:12:43 PM »
What I found really awesome about City was that there were *so many* options for what you could do.

THAT'S what made City awesome to me. THAT'S what made me feel like I was superpowered, and that I was surrounded by people who were superpowered too. It wasn't just that you could do whatever activity you liked. It was that you could take practically any character concept you wanted, no matter how bizarre thematically or mechanically, and bring it to life. You could make it look the way you wanted, and while some cases took more effort than others, you could usually make it playable and fun. Yes, there were limits. Of course there were. But compared to other games, those limits were sky-high.

THIS is what, in my opinion, set COH above any other MMO out there, then and now.  THIS is what I miss. 

OK, this, and the phenomenal community of players.   :)

Ironwolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13483 on: December 01, 2014, 02:02:19 PM »
I've kinda stopped talking about how awesome it will be to get it back... I know the reasons for it, and I fully agree with them, but the continued lack of news is just getting too painful to bear!  One can only keep ones hopes up for a limited time you know... I've kinda reverted back to how I was back in July, before all this kicked off publicly;  quietly wishing I could play again, but resigned to not being able to.

Having been in the hot seat FFM - I can tell you it sucks even more to know things and not be able to say a word.

I am sure Nate knows we are hanging on his every word and parsing it to smithereens to find some hidden meaning in it. I would be certain at this point they would either be under a "gentleman's agreement" to say nothing or an NDA and they can't even tell you they are under an NDA.

I don't know anything you don't and I am letting the reins stay loose and letting the folks work. It moves ever so slowly forward and that is the best news.

Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13484 on: December 01, 2014, 02:09:21 PM »
Playing the only Defender on the team, I frequently resorted to not using any attacks because I was busy using my primary power-set to the exclusion of all else. The few times I could actually take a breath from healing/buffing I would occasionally toss out an electric attack. But that was very rare.

That was with my Emp/Elec Defender, or course. My Rad/NRG Defender used most everything. Same with my Dark/Dark, Sonic/Archery, and the other dozen Defenders I had.

My main controller (Ill/FF) tended to tank and scrap more than control. I used to say that he was a Conscranker. I will probably say that again when we get to play again.
Hope never abandons you, you abandon it. - George Weinberg

Hope ... is not a feeling; it is something you do. - Katherine Paterson

Nobody really cares if you're miserable, so you might as well be happy. - Cynthia Nelms

Ironwolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13485 on: December 01, 2014, 02:14:58 PM »
My favorite character was a Sonic/Ice blaster. She was so incredibly overpowered that is wasn't funny. I didn't even have a single debt badge on her! So much fun.

pinballdave

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13486 on: December 01, 2014, 02:36:00 PM »
One thing I miss about the old CoH was the multiple build feature. I could have one build for survival/solo leveling, another for PuG content. I can't recall  :'( a third build for Raids?

blacksly

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13487 on: December 01, 2014, 02:42:00 PM »
The best argument I could make to help prove my point would to just be quote your post.  You are missing my point.

I don't care how people play the game.  I'm a min/maxer with crazy OCD about it.  You don't have to worry about the builds I made that wasn't the issue for me.  I also agree a pure healer in CoH isn't necessary.  I also agree the Holy Trinity isn't necessary in CoH either.  But I would have played with a pure healer who did nothing but run in circles until (s)he died of a heart attack.

My point is you can't seem to accept any other playstyle then your own.  The very thing you complain about on this board almost exclusively. Just let people play and enjoy the game anyway they want.  I don't care how you played CoH.  I care that you are always telling people how to NOT play CoH.  If PowerGamer had a pure healing character then that's fine.  If you don't want to play with a pure healer, then that's fine.  Telling PowerGamer not to make a pure healer.  That's not fine.

Word. And...

"I accept a wide variety of playstyles, but I do not accept the attackless empath." <-- exactly the point. You DON'T ACCEPT someone playing the game in a style that you consider wildly suboptimal. Because, of course, CoH was so difficult that one member of the party not playing optimally could cause team wipes, yes?

PsiBug

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13488 on: December 01, 2014, 02:52:31 PM »
As the founder of the SG Fruit Salad...

You had me at Fruit Salad! When the game returns, Rad Banana, Walter Melon and a few of my other alts will be lining up to request a membership application.

Power Gamer

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13489 on: December 01, 2014, 02:56:05 PM »
I am amazed at how controversial a non-conforming build is.

Or maybe it is just trolling.

Either way, complaining about different builds is missing out on the enjoyment of diversity.

Basically it boils down to "If you don't build it my way, it's wrong. And I won't let you on my team" (As if that's a punishment)Then if you get on the team, "You're not playing right. Here let me tell you what attacks to use." Might as well let the other guy have your account.

IMHO if a person has to 'win' in their own way all the time, then losing must be their natural state in life.
It takes a village to raise a child. And it takes a villain to explain the value of lunch money.

-Random CoHer: "Why does the sky turn green during Rikti invasions?"
-Me:"Rikti Monkey farts"
-Random CoHer: "I'm going to you for all my questions from now on!"

Ironwolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13490 on: December 01, 2014, 03:53:39 PM »
I was once playing with a guy who was occasionally getting slaughtered on his tank. I mean really hammered. I looked through his build and said to him you don't have all of your shields?

He said - I don't? What do those shields do? I just chose my powers by the names that sound good.

I said - if you are having fun carry on - if you want some help to toughen up the tank let me know.

The point is - its a game. CoH was built on Fun first. If the player is doing crazy things you can embrace the crazy or don't play with them. If a player came in who was disruptive to me or made me angry - I just said see you later folks I have some other things I need to do - take care and left.


GN2

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13491 on: December 01, 2014, 04:02:05 PM »
My main problem with people having "non-optimized" or "fun" builds wasn't that they had them and enjoyed playing them, it was when they tried to do very difficult content with them, and as a result got plastered, then proceeded to whine and cry about the mean Internet bullies when people try to suggest how to improve their build to them. (The "Petless MM" fad that was going on for a while when Thugs first came out because it was the only way to wield dual pistols comes to mind.)

Conversely, CoX was never a very hard game as far as MMOs go, so builds that were well and truly unplayable and a liability to any team they were in were VERY rare unless you were doing the *absolute* most difficult content, such as some of the challenge badges in iTrials, and as such, people who insisted on an *optimized* group for every single random mission/BAF farm were equally as ridiculous.

AmberOfDzu

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13492 on: December 01, 2014, 04:12:27 PM »
- snip a lot of good discussion of builds -

CoH had plenty of room for play styles; but players sometimes didn't. Still, I think there was a happy medium of fun, tolerance, and respect that most people were willing to work with.

I had a petless mastermind myself. I was even on a static team of all petless MM's in Praetoria. But I also had a "fully-petted" build ready to go if I was with a more performance minded group. I would join a pick-up group, and offer to play either build as the group preferred. Sometimes they wanted to see how petless worked, if at all. Sometimes they wanted the pets from the start. Sometimes they'd ask to see the other option half-way through a session.

Gorvi Guile

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13493 on: December 01, 2014, 04:32:59 PM »
Slightly off the current build discussion. I used to love annoying my good friend with the intentional "mistells". i.e. No, I won't tell them you have phase shift on your tank.  Sorry MT. Then the fun part of getting the private tells from her saying people were really going to start to believe she had phase shift. It's fun being the pain in the A**.

Power Gamer

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13494 on: December 01, 2014, 05:43:11 PM »
Slightly off the current build discussion. I used to love annoying my good friend with the intentional "mistells". i.e. No, I won't tell them you have phase shift on your tank.  Sorry MT. Then the fun part of getting the private tells from her saying people were really going to start to believe she had phase shift. It's fun being the pain in the A**.

Funny
It takes a village to raise a child. And it takes a villain to explain the value of lunch money.

-Random CoHer: "Why does the sky turn green during Rikti invasions?"
-Me:"Rikti Monkey farts"
-Random CoHer: "I'm going to you for all my questions from now on!"

Ankhammon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13495 on: December 01, 2014, 05:43:55 PM »
That was with my Emp/Elec Defender, or course. My Rad/NRG Defender used most everything. Same with my Dark/Dark, Sonic/Archery, and the other dozen Defenders I had.

Always great to hear about someone else who enjoyed the Defender/Offender lifestyle.

Not that you other people are all bad. :)
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

Power Gamer

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13496 on: December 01, 2014, 05:47:11 PM »
Yup, in this case being a bit psychotic is not a bad thing.  :)
It takes a village to raise a child. And it takes a villain to explain the value of lunch money.

-Random CoHer: "Why does the sky turn green during Rikti invasions?"
-Me:"Rikti Monkey farts"
-Random CoHer: "I'm going to you for all my questions from now on!"

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13497 on: December 01, 2014, 06:02:38 PM »
I have actually never even made an Empathy.  The one defender I had was a Time/Sonic.  Never made it very far I was always playing my main or one of my main alts(If thats a thing).  I had a Dark/Kin Corruptor that I loved though.  Second favorite character without a doubt.  He was just a debuff/buff machine.  Permahasten which resulted in perma FS.  Not to mention ID and SB for everyone.  And Immob and -tohit for mobs.  It was so much fun it should be illegal.

But CoH is a casual and, I don't mean this in a bad way, easy game to play.  It somehow was able to appeal to lots of play styles and be fun to all of them.  It was literally the only game I have ever seen where you could play any way you wanted to it and be relatively successful at it.  Because the over all goal of CoH was always just to have fun.

Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13498 on: December 01, 2014, 06:10:28 PM »
I am amazed at how controversial a non-conforming build is.

Or maybe it is just trolling.

Either way, complaining about different builds is missing out on the enjoyment of diversity.

Basically it boils down to "If you don't build it my way, it's wrong. And I won't let you on my team" (As if that's a punishment)Then if you get on the team, "You're not playing right. Here let me tell you what attacks to use." Might as well let the other guy have your account.

IMHO if a person has to 'win' in their own way all the time, then losing must be their natural state in life.

My philosophy was to give advice on builds and accept advice from others as well, as long as it was advice. Whenever someone gave me the attitude of "build your characters the way I say or else....." my response was "unless you are paying for my account, then you can drop the attitude"
In fearful COH-less days
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Groundbreaker

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #13499 on: December 01, 2014, 06:15:16 PM »
I had an Empath that mainly healed. He had other powers but the only time I really played him was when we were desperate for a support role in our team so usually I was the only troller/defender there.

My main grief has always been with Blappers, Scrankers, Blasterapperankerenderollers, etc. When they were done right they were ok but plenty of times I saw blasters step forward to prove they could tank, when they really couldn't.

That being said I never really criticised anyone for their build (other than my brother)... oh wait there was this one time:

I was playing Reva my Claws/Regen Scrapper. I was in a full team, mixed bag, and there was a Blapper, can't remember his name. Anyway he kept dying so I ended up taking on myself to babysit him and take the aggro off him. He was so impressed he ended up literally down on one knee proposing to me. I think my reply was something along the lines of "I could never bring myself to marry such a feeble, squishy blaster"
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