Why CoH over other Superhero MMOs?

[JWBullfrog]

My two cents ( for all they are worth, allowing for inflation)
 
CoH worked.
 
Sure it had it's flaws and odd patches. But, by and large, it worked. Not only did it work mechanically (as I expect all published games to do) but it worked for the players as well.
 
In the six years I played the game I saw every possible character idea wander through the city. Cowboys, Knights, Pirates, Shinigami, Magical Girls, Soldiers, Saints, Savants, Aliens, Mutants, Madmen, six foot Pink Bunnies... and absolutely none of them felt foreign to the game. All of those wildly disperate ideas fit together in a way I havent seen any other game match.
 
I saw a community that was (and is) one of the most tolerant and open in gaming. It was a community that, on the whole, accepted every playstyle, every character quirk, newbies and veterans. We didn't care as long as people didn't break the unspoken rule of 'live and let live.'
 
I've yet to find another game where characters stand in the same position for hours because the people behind them are just...talking. If you wanted to hammer away at a TF for the 500th time, it was cool, you could find someone to join you easily enough, but if you just wanted to talk, Atlas Park and Pocket D were always there.
 
I could fly. Or run, or Teleport, Or leap tall buildings, or be a Coyote or a ninja to get around.
 
Our city was beautiful. It had a vibrancy all it's own. It was alive in a way that few other games match. The city was a character all by itself, not just a place to sell stuff.
 
It all worked.

[Pinnacle Blue]

My two cents ( for all they are worth, allowing for inflation)
 
CoH worked.

<snip snip snippity snip>

This post right here.  YES.

[JaguarX]

My two cents ( for all they are worth, allowing for inflation)
 
CoH worked.
 
Sure it had it's flaws and odd patches. But, by and large, it worked. Not only did it work mechanically (as I expect all published games to do) but it worked for the players as well.
 

+1 this for sure.



Although the downside, it worked so well for that particular kind of player, now that it's gone, it will be hard to recreate that random magic, and two in the meantime, there isn't a replacement.

The average WoW player can jump from fantasy game to fantasy game and probably will never run out of games within a lifetime. (Guess)

COX players and what they come to expect in a game, COX was it. Besides COX coming back in it's past form, although I doubt it will stay that way due to dev difference and vision difference that vary among devs (i.e look at how much the game changed and vision changed between when States was in charge and when Posi was in charge and they worked together for a long time. Imagine devs that never worked on COX before let alone played it.), but hopefully the successors out of the three will be close in some manner that ideally all COX players can find what they are looking for more closely within those three choices (of course there is DC, CO, and Marvel for some that set up shop there already and found what they are looking for that may add the future count up to six).

And of course this not including any emulator, private server or what ever name is assigned that may or may not be in the works as the idea flip flops between being there is one to "oh we are not working on one. I know of no such thing." depending on the situation and one of those things that cant even be counted until it shows up.

[corvus1970]

My two cents ( for all they are worth, allowing for inflation)
 
CoH worked.
 
Sure it had it's flaws and odd patches. But, by and large, it worked. Not only did it work mechanically (as I expect all published games to do) but it worked for the players as well.
 
In the six years I played the game I saw every possible character idea wander through the city. Cowboys, Knights, Pirates, Shinigami, Magical Girls, Soldiers, Saints, Savants, Aliens, Mutants, Madmen, six foot Pink Bunnies... and absolutely none of them felt foreign to the game. All of those wildly disperate ideas fit together in a way I havent seen any other game match.
 
I saw a community that was (and is) one of the most tolerant and open in gaming. It was a community that, on the whole, accepted every playstyle, every character quirk, newbies and veterans. We didn't care as long as people didn't break the unspoken rule of 'live and let live.'
 
I've yet to find another game where characters stand in the same position for hours because the people behind them are just...talking. If you wanted to hammer away at a TF for the 500th time, it was cool, you could find someone to join you easily enough, but if you just wanted to talk, Atlas Park and Pocket D were always there.
 
I could fly. Or run, or Teleport, Or leap tall buildings, or be a Coyote or a ninja to get around.
 
Our city was beautiful. It had a vibrancy all it's own. It was alive in a way that few other games match. The city was a character all by itself, not just a place to sell stuff.
 
It all worked.

While I agree with the OP itself, THIS post right here really sums up my experience.

COH just worked for me. It clicked right-away from go, and just got better as it went along, especially after Paragon Studios took over.  And even after playing over 7 years, I still had a lot of new experiences to enjoy because of the depth of content.

COH felt good, it felt right. It was a world that I could immerse myself in and thoroughly enjoy. And enjoy it I did up until the end.

I really miss COH.

[Eoraptor]

+1 this for sure.



Although the downside, it worked so well for that particular kind of player, now that it's gone, it will be hard to recreate that random magic, and two in the meantime, there isn't a replacement.

The average WoW player can jump from fantasy game to fantasy game and probably will never run out of games within a lifetime. (Guess)

COX players and what they come to expect in a game, COX was it. Besides COX coming back in it's past form, although I doubt it will stay that way due to dev difference and vision difference that vary among devs (i.e look at how much the game changed and vision changed between when States was in charge and when Posi was in charge and they worked together for a long time. Imagine devs that never worked on COX before let alone played it.), but hopefully the successors out of the three will be close in some manner that ideally all COX players can find what they are looking for more closely within those three choices (of course there is DC, CO, and Marvel for some that set up shop there already and found what they are looking for that may add the future count up to six).

And of course this not including any emulator, private server or what ever name is assigned that may or may not be in the works as the idea flip flops between being there is one to "oh we are not working on one. I know of no such thing." depending on the situation and one of those things that cant even be counted until it shows up.

I wouldn't go this far. I would not say that there can never again be a City of Heroes or that it was a fluke of time, place, and circumstance. I think the game worked because it worked. And it worked because great care was taken with it. All the pieces (or 90% of them) dovetailed smoothly into each other. The Auction system was a part of the narrative, with ubiquitous Wentworth's all over the world where you could go and buy/sell. The crafting system likewise was centered around a grande old college in the heart of the city that said "hey here is where we come to learn and experiment" The alignment system made sense, and gave you story-based choices about how or why you might change sides (such as when you're fist given the choice to arrest a mobster or burn his ass alive). AE my have been a farm, but it was a farm which was rooted in the game's mythos and one which allowed you unlimited creativity. The teaming mechanic worked because it allowed you to play with friends and meet people even if you were a lowly lvl5 and they an incarnated 50+3 and it did so both through mechanics, and through the idea of telling you you would be mentor or a sidekick. And most importantly of all, the game was open form. From the costumes to the contacts you could choose how and where you wanted to play, not be herded from one zone to the next following one or two rigid story lines.

It could easily be made to happen again. The problem is, most game developers don't want to put in that level of effort. In fact, they've gone to great pains to actively train their players to not want it either. We call it the grind, but it's more than that; its a carefully laid out mechanic on getting someone addicted to button clicking rather than getting them involved in a story. As you say... if they shut down Wow on Nov1, everyone would go and find the next Swords-and-Sorcery epic to grind away in. But a year later here we all are, kvetching about our lost home and fighting hard on numerous fronts to resurrect it.

[corvus1970]

Well said, Eoraptor.

[healix]

No other online game has given me the desire to invest my time and feelings like CoH. I tried other 'similar' things, but nothing will replace it. 'but it's just a game!'........yah, right.

[JaguarX]

It could easily be made to happen again. The problem is, most game developers don't want to put in that level of effort. In fact, they've gone to great pains to actively train their players to not want it either. We call it the grind, but it's more than that; its a carefully laid out mechanic on getting someone addicted to button clicking rather than getting them involved in a story. As you say... if they shut down Wow on Nov1, everyone would go and find the next Swords-and-Sorcery epic to grind away in. But a year later here we all are, kvetching about our lost home and fighting hard on numerous fronts to resurrect it.

Yup. I possibly could, but business wise there havent been a major success that demostrates that the method actually works while there is many success with the old grind thing.

Now many people say the yhate grind dont want grind, just as many people say they dont want Bieber. Yet, both sale in great numbers. The business runners are probably not actually listening and fishing forums and boards and video game online mags to find out opinion. They probably looking at numbers. They see  "Hey grind game- 2 million plus players.  Hey game with no grind and cool looking stuff but it only got 150,000 people. Well guess what the next game is going to be? Grind!" I think more people actually like thegrind stuff and being "led" down specific paths than we realize. Look at the complaints with freeform and about the freedom of choice in powers it gives people that CO catches which is potentially more freedom of choice than ATs of COX was. Yet many here are uncnfortable with it. And probably the same feeling with people that like grind look at COX, which we over all see as a good thing.

All it will take is one good one with COX features to break that 1-2 million mark and every other game will be made just like it within the next 5-10 years after.

I think COX was good but shot itself in the foot. Most people didnt even know it existed until after it got closed. And unfortunately that means people that know about the closing didnt get to play and may hear about the features but then go and say, well it didnt help the game any. Note to self do not do what COX did. Even though we know it was a lot deeper than that. To most other people it's another game that wasnt making enough money and got shut down. It was plenty if NCSOFT was an indie studio (which in hindsight I wish COX was made by an indie studio and stayed on the indie studio ownership.) but for major corporation where they are used to and aiming for at least 250,000-300,000 min. subs, it was pennies and stuck around until they was ready to do some trimming, and the pennies always go first even if it really dont save anything it's about image. It looks like they are doing something to cut back. It seems to be the way of the world. Get a man in a suit and people will believe them compared to someone sayign the same thign that may look a bit dissheveled. Appearance is nearly everything these days. Even with the closing. Look at the conclusions made and NCSOFT didnt even give much reason one way or another. But people got angry and quick to make up their own reasons and went with the appearance that it was some corporate suit sitting in a comfy chair smoking a cigar laughing at the pain and anguish he chose to cause that day by shutting down the game because he didnt like American players and want to see them crushed.

[LaughingAlex]

There are people I talk with, who admit they never got to play CoX, but wanted to, and still want to try it out if it did get on it's feet again.  There are those who cry it'd be to hard from what CoX players say(thats mostly on the basis of healing being not so useful and mob damage being high, but it also may be that CO players expect "I WIN AUTOMTICALLY' gameplay that CO has, yes I think that of CO players cause thats how some of them talk), but honestly CoX, it had that feeling of "just right" in terms of difficulty and making you feel important in the game world.  In CO your mary sue, litterally, because the developers made it almost impossible to lose on normal, and even elite mode most content can be beaten, and there isnt enough of an increase in reward on elite anymore.  In CO the entire thing is YOU YOU YOU, and the difficulty reflects it, theres no challenge.

CoX yeah, you were challenged, alot, but the world didn't center around you.  There were moments of failure, such as sister psyche getting killed, due to you, the player, not seeing everything, but that is story telling.  In CO instead, sister psyche and statesman would have won and the whole evil thing wouldn't have happened at all, and no consequences would have occurred.  I can't say CoX had the best story at times but still I feel it was better then CO and everything always centering on you a little to much.  Of course I constantly hear of DC online's bad habit of doing the opposite; making you at best Robins sidekick.

And CoX as I've said many, many times, it's support mechanics worked better then other mmo's cause they allowed so many different strategies.  CO just doesn't allow for that.

[General Idiot]

The problem is, most game developers don't want to put in that level of effort.

One big example I always use: In any MMO, eventually you're going to die for some reason or other. In CoH, you respawned at a hospital (Or SG base), and there was lore and everything regarding the mediporters that accomplished the task. Later in the game's life they were even involved in a story arc. In almost any other game I've played though, it's almost never explained how and why you can respawn. Champions is especially notable in that there's just random respawn points in conceptually nonsensical places half the time where you just poof back into existence for no reason at all.

That to me is a big part of what made CoH great. Everything made sense and fit into the world. Heroes could respawn not just because game mechanics demanded it be possible, but because someone reverse engineered Rikti technology to make it possible.

[srmalloy]

The average WoW player can jump from fantasy game to fantasy game and probably will never run out of games within a lifetime. (Guess)

...and never have to learn any play styles beyond the "holy trinity" of tank/dps/heal and the requirement of having the right mix of each in a group...

[JaguarX]

There are people I talk with, who admit they never got to play CoX, but wanted to, and still want to try it out if it did get on it's feet again.  There are those who cry it'd be to hard from what CoX players say(thats mostly on the basis of healing being not so useful and mob damage being high, but it also may be that CO players expect "I WIN AUTOMTICALLY' gameplay that CO has, yes I think that of CO players cause thats how some of them talk), but honestly CoX, it had that feeling of "just right" in terms of difficulty and making you feel important in the game world.  In CO your mary sue, litterally, because the developers made it almost impossible to lose on normal, and even elite mode most content can be beaten, and there isnt enough of an increase in reward on elite anymore.  In CO the entire thing is YOU YOU YOU, and the difficulty reflects it, theres no challenge.

CoX yeah, you were challenged, alot, but the world didn't center around you.  There were moments of failure, such as sister psyche getting killed, due to you, the player, not seeing everything, but that is story telling.  In CO instead, sister psyche and statesman would have won and the whole evil thing wouldn't have happened at all, and no consequences would have occurred.  I can't say CoX had the best story at times but still I feel it was better then CO and everything always centering on you a little to much.  Of course I constantly hear of DC online's bad habit of doing the opposite; making you at best Robins sidekick.

And CoX as I've said many, many times, it's support mechanics worked better then other mmo's cause they allowed so many different strategies.  CO just doesn't allow for that.

yeah, but I wished that COX centered around the player a little bit more. It seemed like the player was an errand boy/gal for the big dogs and doing other's bidding and or unfolding the contact's story while playing a bit part. Then when it did focus on player's actions, later in the Story Arc set, things always seemed to end up bungled up anyways as if "well hell, I was better off doing nothing at all if they are goign to die anyways." On the other hand Co do have the Vibora bay arc where the play inadvertantly causes the "end of the world" and have to fix it and free Dr Destoyer so he can return and try to take over current MC and the alternative reality when he is finished with his home world (maybe in the future they will expand upon that).

I feel the opposite. I actually feel more powerful and important in CO than I did in COX. In COX, I felt like I was merely doing things for the most parts of the game that "conned gray" to the big dogs and couldnt be bothered with. A glorified sidekick.

On the same token, CO could use some work on the difficulty scaling. Keep normal as is, as it seems some are already complaining it's too hard with certain ATs and builds that make it difficult to play (even on this forum), but should actually make the upper level difficult levels more...well difficult. The drops for increased difficulty levels, well to me personally that dont matter as when I increase difficulty I'm usually doing it merely for the increased personal challenge. Some or rather many see differently, they want or need incentive to do the more difficult settings like better drops. Without it, they wotn do it, regardless if it was actually challenging or not. Just like some people dont team, even though they actually can when every they want and there is nothing stopping them, without either being forced by game mechanics or soem other incentive. Many of those same people speak that they want the freedom and teaming for comraderie and the good talk but when they have it they flip and say they wont do it because they are not forced into it or there isnt better drops. Which reveals that they dont want difficult material or team for comaderie, they want the goodies and expect the goods for doing so and will do the lowest difficulty for the most efficient means to get them, which if the drops rates is the same across the board they wont increase their difficulty or team even though they have the power and means already to do so whenever they please.

[JaguarX]

...and never have to learn any play styles beyond the "holy trinity" of tank/dps/heal and the requirement of having the right mix of each in a group...

Of course. People overall seems to like familiar things. Look at how many people even here cant get into other games because it's not like COX and what they were used to getting and playing in COX.

[corvus1970]

I feel the opposite. I actually feel more powerful and important in CO than I did in COX. In COX, I felt like I was merely doing things for the most parts of the game that "conned gray" to the big dogs and couldnt be bothered with. A glorified sidekick.

Yeah, I don't agree with that personally, and never really felt that way. But as with all things, your mileage may vary.

[Eoraptor]

I agree with Corvus, in CO I feel like the cops are pancaking lazy and want me to do their jobs for them "go bust the mafia" for 15 freaking levels.

[Kyriani]

yeah, but I wished that COX centered around the player a little bit more. It seemed like the player was an errand boy/gal for the big dogs and doing other's bidding and or unfolding the contact's story while playing a bit part. Then when it did focus on player's actions, later in the Story Arc set, things always seemed to end up bungled up anyways as if "well hell, I was better off doing nothing at all if they are goign to die anyways." On the other hand Co do have the Vibora bay arc where the play inadvertantly causes the "end of the world" and have to fix it and free Dr Destoyer so he can return and try to take over current MC and the alternative reality when he is finished with his home world (maybe in the future they will expand upon that).

I feel the opposite. I actually feel more powerful and important in CO than I did in COX. In COX, I felt like I was merely doing things for the most parts of the game that "conned gray" to the big dogs and couldnt be bothered with. A glorified sidekick.

On the same token, CO could use some work on the difficulty scaling. Keep normal as is, as it seems some are already complaining it's too hard with certain ATs and builds that make it difficult to play (even on this forum), but should actually make the upper level difficult levels more...well difficult. The drops for increased difficulty levels, well to me personally that dont matter as when I increase difficulty I'm usually doing it merely for the increased personal challenge. Some or rather many see differently, they want or need incentive to do the more difficult settings like better drops. Without it, they wotn do it, regardless if it was actually challenging or not. Just like some people dont team, even though they actually can when every they want and there is nothing stopping them, without either being forced by game mechanics or soem other incentive. Many of those same people speak that they want the freedom and teaming for comraderie and the good talk but when they have it they flip and say they wont do it because they are not forced into it or there isnt better drops. Which reveals that they dont want difficult material or team for comaderie, they want the goodies and expect the goods for doing so and will do the lowest difficulty for the most efficient means to get them, which if the drops rates is the same across the board they wont increase their difficulty or team even though they have the power and means already to do so whenever they please.

We were actually getting into the phase of player being the big dog right before COH shut down. The new signature story arc was about the Phalanx coming to US (the player) for help cause they lost some of their big guys and there were big problems happening. They NEEDED YOU cause they couldnt do it without you. Unfortunately we didnt get to see that line of story building come to fruition due to the shutdown

[Nealix]

Another thing that will haunt me!  I hate that there was so much content coming that we will now likely never see.  I was also really looking forward to air control.  After water blast I couldn't wait to see what they would do with air control.

[healix]

Corvus, are you the one who created those wonderful shiny icons that replaced the insp/power icons???

[corvus1970]

No, I was not. I've made some avatars and banners, but never any icons

[LaughingAlex]

We were actually getting into the phase of player being the big dog right before COH shut down. The new signature story arc was about the Phalanx coming to US (the player) for help cause they lost some of their big guys and there were big problems happening. They NEEDED YOU cause they couldnt do it without you. Unfortunately we didnt get to see that line of story building come to fruition due to the shutdown

I enjoyed that to.  My thoughts on it; CoH at the lower levels, yes you were the "glorified sidekick" because, well, your starting out and new, but even then, your still getting to save the world, as alot of story archs have you doing just that.  Like the missions in faultline(do ignore Penelope yins presence there a second), or the vahzilok missions you do in Skyway city, for example, both have you saving paragon city or even the world from nasty takeover.  But it balanced out; they knew you were a startup hero, not a veteran.  But as you got to higher and higher levels, so did the stakes in alot of area's(save the 30-40 range, but even that got fixed later in the games life).  In CO your the center of the world in day one practically, and I end up feeling like mary sue for it at times.  It doesn't have the same feel because, well, it's given to you, not earned.