I'm kinda torn here

[Blue Pulsar]

Traitor is kind of a strong word there especially when dealing with the ideology of City of Heroes.

Traitor feels like a strong word because people think its name calling. But it really isn't because it's not derogatory, it's just going by definition. In fact, I don't really think there is a derogatory word for such a person, and that's probably why it has the feel it does. However, it is also not trying to sugar coat. For example, someone who has sex for money:

Whore: derogatory
Prostitute: definition
Call girl: sugar coating

Anyone who betrays in any way, a person or an ideology that they once held in regard is technically a traitor.

As far as the "intent" issue, I think what you are trying to say is "All actions being equal, intent matters not." And with this I agree. However, if one person holds malice for NC$oft and is waiting for CoH to come back, and another does not and wants to continue with GW2, but both play the game, it would be ridiculous to think that they both will follow all the same actions given the same choices.

...if being a traitor to a game is merely just happening to play another game...

That was never said, bro. Playing an NC$oft game and actively supporting them would be traitorous to this community... at least in the eyes of some here.

WHat I'm saying that definition of traitor of ideology to a game is not a very good one and sounds a bit disturbing and kind of fall into what people been already been saying with this movement and people here acting a bit cultish and "us vs them" attitude or rather with us or you with NCSOFT"  attitude.

I ran out of breath reading that aloud.

Just because you don't like the definition of traitor doesn't mean it's not a good definition. There are people that have very harsh feelings about NC$oft, and I am leaning towards that side. You don't have to though.

[JaguarX]

Traitor feels like a strong word because people think its name calling. But it really isn't because it's not derogatory, it's just going by definition. In fact, I don't really think there is a derogatory word for such a person, and that's probably why it has the feel it does. However, it is also not trying to sugar coat. For example, someone who has sex for money:

Whore: derogatory
Prostitute: definition
Call girl: sugar coating

Anyone who betrays in any way, a person or an ideology that they once held in regard is technically a traitor.

As far as the "intent" issue, I think what you are trying to say is "All actions being equal, intent matters not." And with this I agree. However, if one person holds malice for NC$oft and is waiting for CoH to come back, and another does not and wants to continue with GW2, but both play the game, it would be ridiculous to think that they both will follow all the same actions given the same choices.

That was never said, bro. Playing an NC$oft game and actively supporting them would be traitorous to this community... at least in the eyes of some here.

Well I guess there are many views and definition of traitor. I dont think anyone who choose to play a game NCSOFT or not is a traitor at all, to the game nor community. As you said "Anyone who betrays in any way, a person or an ideology that they once held in regard is technically a traitor." If they hold that ideology of playing or being part of the COX community now means they must hate NCSOFT and must not partake in any of NCSOFT games, then yeah playing GW2 would be a traitorous act regardless of intentions. But if they view it more as the community is a bunch of people with different views some hate NCSOFT now some dont, and dont hold the ideology of they must hate NCSOFT, then if they play GW2 for example, there is nothing traitorous about it. Thus since they must hold in regard that they are supposed to hate NCSOFT, if they dont hold it in regard now or then, then they are not betraying anything, unless they hold that view in regard then they might be betraying something. And given that the people that run this forum said many times iirc, the ideology of this fourm is not to hate NCSOFT and to forbides anyone from playing any of NCSOFT game, well especially that they have other game section with GW2 come to think of it, then even if a person do play GW2 or other NCSOFT games, they are not even a traitor to this community. Maybe to a few people eyes, but then if the "traitor never held them in regards, by your definition, then they are still betraying nothing.

I just dont think that definition of traitor fits with this circumstance. WHat is a person betraying? People that hate NCSOFT? Were they ever in allegiance or pledged to that person to begin with? The community? This here is only part of the community and not the entire or even majority of the community nor I dont think the people here can speak as THE community. Titan NEtwork community maybe so, but as mentioned earlier, it has been said that there is nothing wrong with playing NCSOFT games and there is eve a section for it, for peopel that moved on. In order to be a traitor, and apply that definition, something has to be betrayed in the first place. While you may feel that you are betraying something, yourself, or some other person you pledge your allegiance to not play any NCSOFT game, that word do not apply to that circumstance as the COH community and probably the Titan Network community as a whole as you are trying to apply it to. Either way, if you dont want ot be a traitor as you put it, the solution is easy, do not play GW2 or any NCSOFT games. And you may have harsh feelings towards NCSOFT but that doesnt mean words get reassigned as if the community is something people pledged to and is a traitor for playing the other games. Just because you dont like NCSOFT doesnt mean people that may not hold that strong hate or may not like them but like GW2 are traitors since I doubt anyone pledged any allegiance to you or anyone else here.

The choice is yours. Play or dont play. If you feel like a traitor than so be it. But anyone that play or dont feel negative strongly as you towards NCSOFT doesnt mean they are betraying anything.


and by definition a call girl may be a type of prostitute as in all prostitutes are not call girls. Thus it's not always an interchangeable term nor a sugar coat way of saying prostitute.

[FatherXmas]

I got into CoH because real life friends were playing it.

I got into GW2 because real life friends were playing it.

Some of these GW2 friends played CoH and gave up because lack of free time plus subscription wasn't attractive to them.  Others couldn't get into CoH because they were more high fantasy oriented than superhero oriented.

Sorry, RL friends trump online community if push comes to shove.  None of you were wingmen for me in college.  None of you were there for me when I was in the hospital with my stroke.  None of you will be there when inevitably I bury my parents.  So if you push me to choose between RL friends and you but only if give up being a "traitor", well guess which group wins.

[Graydar]

I pride myself on not trying to not be a consumer and instead be a customer. I have demands and needs off of the company, and if they don't meet my expectations, then I just don't bother with them. NCSoft is one of these companies. Their handling of CoH was personal, as well. I refuse to give them any money, regardless of whether or not I can't play a game with friends. I have plenty of other games to play with them instead. and if I do need that game, I'll buy a game key from a dodgey chinese store or an account from a third party.

[Blue Pulsar]

No offense, Jaggy, but you really, really, REALLY need to work on your TL;DR. Try forming concise sentences and breaking ideas up into paragraphs while cutting down on repetitious statements.

Well I guess there are many views and definition of traitor.

Um... No. In fact, there are very few.

Traitor:
a: one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty, or b: one who commits treason

Your next bit was hard to follow for me.

I dont think anyone who choose to play a game NCSOFT or not is a traitor at all, to the game nor community.

Kinda clear.

As you said "Anyone who betrays in any way, a person or an ideology that they once held in regard is technically a traitor." If they hold that ideology of playing or being part of the COX community now means they must hate NCSOFT and must not partake in any of NCSOFT games, then yeah playing GW2 would be a traitorous act regardless of intentions.

You just did a 180. First you say those who play another NC$oft game are "not a traitor at all" then you say that "playing GW2 would be a traitorous act regardless of intentions."

But if they view it more as the community is a bunch of people with different views some hate NCSOFT now some dont, and dont hold the ideology of they must hate NCSOFT, then if they play GW2 for example, there is nothing traitorous about it.

And then a 360, with which you lost me. Also, no one ever said you have to hate NC$oft. Some have suggested that supporting them would be insulting to the CoH community and game.

Thus since they must hold in regard that they are supposed to hate NCSOFT, if they dont hold it in regard now or then, then they are not betraying anything, unless they hold that view in regard then they might be betraying something.

First of all, I never said anything about holding an action, that we may/may not take, in regard. My earlier example (not definition) of traitor was someone who betrays a person or ideology they held in regard.

Second, you're arguing a point that was already made within my example. "betraying something we held in regard." That goes without saying that if we didn't hold it in regard, if we were never part of something or supported that thing, we can't be a traitor to it.

And given that the people that run this forum said many times iirc, the ideology of this fourm is not to hate NCSOFT and to forbides anyone from playing any of NCSOFT game, well especially that they have other game section with GW2 come to think of it, then even if a person do play GW2 or other NCSOFT games, they are not even a traitor to this community. Maybe to a few people eyes, but then if the "traitor never held them in regards, by your definition, then they are still betraying nothing.

I'd love to see this post where the admins state the ideology of this forum. However, this forum is not the sum of the CoX community. Nor does allowing people to talk about other games (NC$oft or otherwise) constitute treason.

Not to mention, I never said that playing an NC$oft game would constitute treason. I was simply looking for peoples opinions. I'd like to say I understand your position, but you flip-flop like a fish on land within the confines of a paragraph. Not to mention repeat yourself...

I just dont think that definition of traitor fits with this circumstance. WHat is a person betraying?

"That" definition? There is no other definition.

In order for betrayal to exist, you first have to have a sense of honor, duty, and loyalty. Those things are largely lost on youth today. It used to be that if someone wronged you, you wanted the wrong to be made right in some way before you had any more dealings with that person. NC$oft wronged us. And for many here, we would like that wrong to be righted in some way.

Now-a-days, it seams that kids will just flock to whatever makes them happy for the moment regardless of consequences or past. I fear we live in a generation that is becoming increasingly devoid of allegiance and integrity, so "traitor" simply becomes a pejorative with little meaning. Or maybe to harsh of one.

People that hate NCSOFT? Were they ever in allegiance or pledged to that person to begin with? The community? This here is only part of the community and not the entire or even majority of the community nor I dont think the people here can speak as THE community.

I think a single person can speak as the community, or at least a small part of it. It is individuals that make up the community. But, this doesn't mean that the community as a whole shares the same views. I am an American, and I can speak as such. Many Americans see eye to eye with me on a lot of stuff. Many don't. That doesn't mean I can't express myself as part of the communities I am in.

Titan NEtwork community maybe so, but as mentioned earlier, it has been said that there is nothing wrong with playing NCSOFT games and there is eve a section for it, for peopel that moved on. In order to be a traitor, and apply that definition, something has to be betrayed in the first place. While you may feel that you are betraying something, yourself, or some other person you pledge your allegiance to not play any NCSOFT game, that word do not apply to that circumstance as the COH community and probably the Titan Network community as a whole as you are trying to apply it to. Either way, if you dont want ot be a traitor as you put it, the solution is easy, do not play GW2 or any NCSOFT games. And you may have harsh feelings towards NCSOFT but that doesnt mean words get reassigned as if the community is something people pledged to and is a traitor for playing the other games. Just because you dont like NCSOFT doesnt mean people that may not hold that strong hate or may not like them but like GW2 are traitors since I doubt anyone pledged any allegiance to you or anyone else here.

Man, and I thought I was a bad rambler. You put me to shame. How often do you have to replace your keyboard? This was all more repetition.

The choice is yours. Play or dont play. If you feel like a traitor than so be it. But anyone that play or dont feel negative strongly as you towards NCSOFT doesnt mean they are betraying anything.

Again, this was clear before. If you don't feel a sense of loyalty to the game or community, then you're right. There's no betrayal. But my original topic was in the context of those who are.

and by definition a call girl may be a type of prostitute as in all prostitutes are not call girls. Thus it's not always an interchangeable term nor a sugar coat way of saying prostitute.

Actually, it most definitely is a sugar coated way of referring to a prostitute. Technically, a call girl is a prostitute that you can call by phone for appointments. However, the term has a much softer connotation than prostitute and is often used interchangeably when trying to be nice. And whore is considered a pejorative.

[JaguarX]

No offense, Jaggy, but you really, really, REALLY need to work on your TL;DR. Try forming concise sentences and breaking ideas up into paragraphs while cutting down on repetitious statements.

Um... No. In fact, there are very few.

Traitor:
a: one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty, or b: one who commits treason

Your next bit was hard to follow for me.


Kinda clear.

You just did a 180. First you say those who play another NC$oft game are "not a traitor at all" then you say that "playing GW2 would be a traitorous act regardless of intentions."

And then a 360, with which you lost me. Also, no one ever said you have to hate NC$oft. Some have suggested that supporting them would be insulting to the CoH community and game.

First of all, I never said anything about holding an action, that we may/may not take, in regard. My earlier example (not definition) of traitor was someone who betrays a person or ideology they held in regard.

Second, you're arguing a point that was already made within my example. "betraying something we held in regard." That goes without saying that if we didn't hold it in regard, if we were never part of something or supported that thing, we can't be a traitor to it.

I'd love to see this post where the admins state the ideology of this forum. However, this forum is not the sum of the CoX community. Nor does allowing people to talk about other games (NC$oft or otherwise) constitute treason.

Not to mention, I never said that playing an NC$oft game would constitute treason. I was simply looking for peoples opinions. I'd like to say I understand your position, but you flip-flop like a fish on land within the confines of a paragraph. Not to mention repeat yourself...

"That" definition? There is no other definition.

In order for betrayal to exist, you first have to have a sense of honor, duty, and loyalty. Those things are largely lost on youth today. It used to be that if someone wronged you, you wanted the wrong to be made right in some way before you had any more dealings with that person. NC$oft wronged us. And for many here, we would like that wrong to be righted in some way.

Now-a-days, it seams that kids will just flock to whatever makes them happy for the moment regardless of consequences or past. I fear we live in a generation that is becoming increasingly devoid of allegiance and integrity, so "traitor" simply becomes a pejorative with little meaning. Or maybe to harsh of one.

I think a single person can speak as the community, or at least a small part of it. It is individuals that make up the community. But, this doesn't mean that the community as a whole shares the same views. I am an American, and I can speak as such. Many Americans see eye to eye with me on a lot of stuff. Many don't. That doesn't mean I can't express myself as part of the communities I am in.

Man, and I thought I was a bad rambler. You put me to shame. How often do you have to replace your keyboard? This was all more repetition.

Again, this was clear before. If you don't feel a sense of loyalty to the game or community, then you're right. There's no betrayal. But my original topic was in the context of those who are.

Actually, it most definitely is a sugar coated way of referring to a prostitute. Technically, a call girl is a prostitute that you can call by phone for appointments. However, the term has a much softer connotation than prostitute and is often used interchangeably when trying to be nice. And whore is considered a pejorative.

Lately been holding my tongue towards you but I see your game now, I'll play along for a bit. As far as you are concerned in your view everyone that dont hate NCSOFT or play a game you dont like or support that game is a traitor and you seem to act like you speak for the entire community. Ok. Sorry to burst your bubble, but your type are the minority and like it or not, majority of the community have moved on and not sitting around ranting and raving and calling people traitors for playing certain games.


But if I was indeed repeating myself and you still didnt get it, then maybe the problem lies with your reading skills.  Oh I forgot that cant be it, you are perfect and righteous and cant even be wrong even when you think all prostitutes are call girls. lol. You're a funny guy.


Well there is no flip flopping going on. You're just over looking the keywords. Like I said, IF one to hold the belief you had, aka, that thier loyalty lies with the ones that think playing an NCSOFT game is an act of treason by your definition of treason you are going by, then yeah that can be viewed by treason. Also I said that it depends on the view of treason and where their loyalty and pledge of loyalty lies. If they made no pledge then they cant commit treason. If they pledged to follow the hate NCSOFT crowd and never to support them in anyway and that is their stance belief and their obligation to duty in their eyes, then by that definition, your definition, it can be treason, using your definition.

My definition of treason, playing a game one chooses is not treason at all in any manner as I didnt make no pledge to not partake in certain games or what not.

It's not rambling it's all part of making the point and it's apparent it was too long for you to read as it's very apparent since you only half read it, you missed a lot of the points and tried to fill in the blanks, and did a piss poor job at it. There are paragraphs. If you cant read those paragraphs of that length, I guess it's safe to assume you never wrote a research paper that more than a page in length or read anything more than a page in length.

And playing GW2 is not insulting to the COX community. Maybe insulting to a few people here, and that is mostly their problem but cant be said for the community as a whole and what is actually insulting to the community is the acting as if they are the whole community and or representative of 60,000-100,000 plus people when the number here probably number about 25,000 at the most. And even including those 25,000 people, many play GW2, and many dont hold that strong of a view to thing merely playing a game is a form of treason to the community here.

If you take the time to actually read what I'm saying instead of trying to pick an arguement you will realize the point I'm making. Serious read firt, respond second. It will be easier for you. If you cant take the time to read and rather resort to insulting snark, then dont bother and simply dont play GW2 if you think it's treason to your group of people. Unfortunately for you, not everyone in the world hates NCSOFT. Get over it. And many will choose to play GW2 or any other NCSOFT title that they choose regardless of what you or anyone else think is a treason like act. But maybe it's best you do the GW2 community a favor and stay away from it and stay within your finger pointing traitor calling group. Dont need people like you messing it up and definately dont need that type of attitude there or in any game. Bad for business and fouls a community's image. Yeah dont play GW2, that may be the best choice.

And sure you can express yourself as part of the community, but you seem to be coming off as if you are speaking for the entire community. As if playing GW2 is somehow betraying the community and if they are showing strong hate for NCSOFT is also treason by your definition.


Prostitute-sex worker who usually perfomr sex acts for money.

Call girl-sex worker that usually perform sex acts for money that is contacted through telephone that may or may not work for escort agency.

Simple example- A prostitute may also be a street walker, aka, not a call girl. And thus as i said before they are not always interchangable. What you are saying is basically like saying that a square is rectangle and all rectangles are squares. Which is not true. How about doing some research on it before making assumption and learning what a call girl actually is first before arguing a point where you used an analogy completely wrong and seem to blind or afraid to confess you messed it up.


The short version. Really, you are not looking for opinions. Your mind was already made up when you started this thread. So here is a direct simple question for you, as more than likely, I probably wrote more beyond your reading skill level again and since their is no pictures you probably wont get it again. Either play GW2 or not. No one gives a crap really. If you are worried about people calling you a traitor, then simply dont play and follow that group. If you are brave enough to make your own decision, make it and stop clowning around and calling or insinuating that people that decide to play certain games are traitors. Although you are free to think such thoughts, but that is your illogical thought process anly you can solve. If there is not enough hate for NCSOFT here, I'm sure there are plenty of other places where you can get your fill of NCSOFT hate.

By the way I never said the admins said anything about treason. You're the one that is viewing it as treason to play certain games or not. I said they allow and dont banish people, like your kind of self righteous people probably would do if given the power, for playing other games. In the other game section their is a thread title called GW2. That shows that many here, actually already play GW2. Guess that mean in your eyes, there are lot of traitors to the community huh. Oh well. Tough. Now live with it. Your move. Are you going to play GW2 or not? And if playing a game make me a traitor in your eyes, then so be it. I really dont give a rat's behind. You can take that at face value. What are you going to do about it? Nothing but call names and miss points and jump to assumptions and twist stuff around? You are very good at that. Almost expert level really. Oh yeah, no offense. Kinda torn my butt. More like, "If you play GW2 you are a traitor to the community." If you was torn about it, then you wouldnt have bothered to insinuate that playing GW2 is a treasonous act in the first place. You know nothing about treason. You know nothing of taking an oath to serve this country and see a person betray that and put lives in danger but have the audacity to come in here and insinuate that playing a certain game is on that same level.


Lastly while ya throwing around the tldl stuff, my post you replied to was 625 words and your reply to it was 649. So before saying something is too long, count your own words. It makes you look idiotic to say one is too long but write one that is even longer because you didnt read it all to get the point and dont like it so you look for something to argue about and insult and ignore the points. If it's really too long for you to read, although apparently your length rule you want to enforce on others dont apply to you in your eyes, then take your time and read it before replying wiht nonsense and missing the points, boy. 




Aggelakis
July 09, 2013, 12:08:24 am This forum isn't forbidden from use by people who enjoy NCsoft's other games or people who don't think NCsoft are a giant pile of horse pockey. This forum isn't forbidden from use by people who enjoy bukakke either, but that toes the line a little over the "PG13" atmosphere we *try* to keep around here.


Now show me where any admin said that playingother games especially of the NCSOFT sort was treason against the ideology of this community or even this website?

[Blue Pulsar]

Well there is no flip flopping going on. You're just over looking the keywords.

Well, I admit that your horribly unclear way of trying to make a point may have been misconstrued as flip-flopping when in actuality you were simply not making much sense. I'm not saying that you don't have a valid point, and I'm sorry,  but you aren't that great at making clear points.

My definition of treason, playing a game one chooses is not treason at all in any manner as I didnt make no pledge to not partake in certain games or what not.

I'm sorry, I don't go by individual people's definitions, but by the ones listed in actual dictionaries. And, again, if you never felt an obligation or duty to the game, then that is the case. We agree on that. Why you keep saying it like we don't, I have no idea.

It's not rambling it's all part of making the point and it's apparent it was too long for you to read as it's very apparent since you only half read it, you missed a lot of the points and tried to fill in the blanks, and did a piss poor job at it. There are paragraphs. If you cant read those paragraphs of that length, I guess it's safe to assume you never wrote a research paper that more than a page in length or read anything more than a page in length.

It is rambling if you repeat yourself and use run-on sentences. Which you just did.

It's not so much that I can't read long paragraphs. It's that, again no offense intended, your grammar is lacking, your spelling is distracting, and your typos are abundant. All making it difficult to read.

As far as writing, I have several stories under my belt. My current novel is sitting at 15k words, and my current screenplay is at well over 25k. Brevity is not exactly my strong suit either.

And playing GW2 is not insulting to the COX community. Maybe insulting to a few people here, and that is mostly their problem but cant be said for the community as a whole and what is actually insulting to the community is the acting as if they are the whole community and or representative of 60,000-100,000 plus people when the number here probably number about 25,000 at the most. And even including those 25,000 people, many play GW2, and many dont hold that strong of a view to thing merely playing a game is a form of treason to the community here.

Every single thing you said there was based on assumption.

If you take the time to actually read what I'm saying instead of trying to pick an arguement you will realize the point I'm making. Serious read firt, respond second. It will be easier for you. If you cant take the time to read and rather resort to insulting snark,...

How could I respond to nearly every sentence and not read it?

...then dont bother and simply dont play GW2 if you think it's treason to your group of people. Unfortunately for you, not everyone in the world hates NCSOFT. Get over it. And many will choose to play GW2 or any other NCSOFT title that they choose regardless of what you or anyone else think is a treason like act. But maybe it's best you do the GW2 community a favor and stay away from it and stay within your finger pointing traitor calling group. Dont need people like you messing it up and definately dont need that type of attitude there or in any game. Bad for business and fouls a community's image. Yeah dont play GW2, that may be the best choice.

Pardon me....

Sorry, had to clear all the words out of my mouth that you just put in there.

I never once said I hate NC$oft. My opinion of them is easy to guess, but your attributing statements to me that I didn't make. I also never specifically said it was traitorous to play GW2. I said I was considering playing it and asked the community for input.

(Sheesh, and you said I was insulting you...)

And sure you can express yourself as part of the community, but you seem to be coming off as if you are speaking for the entire community. As if playing GW2 is somehow betraying the community and if they are showing strong hate for NCSOFT is also treason by your definition.

Again, you repeat yourself. No, I never said that playing another game is a betrayal. I was asking for opinions on if others thought it was. And show me where I said "the entire community hates NC."

Prostitute-sex worker who usually perfomr sex acts for money.

Call girl-sex worker that usually perform sex acts for money that is contacted through telephone that may or may not work for escort agency.

Simple example- A prostitute may also be a street walker, aka, not a call girl. And thus as i said before they are not always interchangable.

I understand that you are probably quite young and don't understand the elasticity of certain words in the modern English language. I don't like it, but it's a fact. Call girl and prostitute may not be 100% synonymous, but they are interchangeable.

What you are saying is basically like saying that a square is rectangle and all rectangles are squares. Which is not true.

Um... no, I was totally not saying that.

How about doing some research on it before making assumption and learning what a call girl actually is first before arguing a point where you used an analogy completely wrong and seem to blind or afraid to confess you messed it up.

Completely wrong? You were at least two more wronger... (Sorry, had to throw in a joke. If anyone gets the reference, props to them.)

I already know what the definitions of each are, and I know I'm right. It's common knowledge that the term "call-girl" can be used as a nice way to refer to nearly any prostitute. I find it very strange that you going on a rampage such as this because I said call girls are prostitutes.

The short version. Really, you are not looking for opinions. Your mind was already made up when you started this thread.

Well, crap. Since you can obviously read my mind and know what I want better than I, I should have just PMed you.

So here is a direct simple question for you,

Oh, goody. Question time. Lay it on me.

as more than likely, I probably wrote more beyond your reading skill level again and since their is no pictures you probably wont get it again.

Seriously? More mindless insults?

Either play GW2 or not. No one gives a crap really. If you are worried about people calling you a traitor, then simply dont play and follow that group. If you are brave enough to make your own decision, make it and stop clowning around and calling or insinuating that people that decide to play certain games are traitors. Although you are free to think such thoughts, but that is your illogical thought process anly you can solve. If there is not enough hate for NCSOFT here, I'm sure there are plenty of other places where you can get your fill of NCSOFT hate.

Wait, where was the question? All I saw was you repeating things you've already said before.

By the way I never said the admins said anything about treason. You're the one that is viewing it as treason to play certain games or not. I said they allow and dont banish people, like your probably would do if given the power, for playing other games. In the other game section their is a thread title called GW2. That shows that many here, actually already play GW2. Guess that mean in your eyes, there are lot of traitors to the community huh.

Again... When did I ever call people out as traitors? Hmm? All I said was that if you held yourself to an ideology and then went back on it, you are, by definition, a traitor. It's not me. It's Merriam-Webster. If you don't feel comfortable with that, that's your problem.

Oh well. Tough. Now live with it. Your move.

Wow... just... wow.

A What are you going to do about it? Nothing but call names and miss points and jump to assumptions and twist stuff around? You are very good at that. Almost expert level really.

Wait, so first I'm an unintelligent person who can't read a long paragraph and needs pictures, and then I'm an expert at twisting words?

Oh yeah, no offense. Kinda torn my butt. More like, "If you play GW2 you are a traitor to the community." If you was torn about it, then you wouldnt have bothered to insinuate that playing GW2 is a treasonous act in the first place.

I miss my friends that went to the game and would like to see them. But on the other side of the coin, I don't really want to support anything that NC$oft does. You are taking the whole "traitor" thing waaaaaaay out of proportion. It was one tiny remark in my original post.

You know nothing about treason. You know nothing of taking an oath to serve this country and see a person betray that and put lives in danger

Are you sure you want to make that assumption?

but have the audacity to come in here and insinuate that playing a certain game is on that same level.

Show me where I said that playing GW2 is on the same level as high treason to ones country. I used the word traitor with it's core definition in mind. You are the one elevating it to something that I never intended. That's your problem, Jag.

Lastly while ya throwing around the tldl stuff, my post you replied to was 625 words and your reply to it was 649. So before saying something is too long, count your own words. It makes you look idiotic to say one is too long but write one that is even longer because you didnt read it all to get the point and dont like it so you look for something to argue about and insult and ignore the points.

Congratulations. My post was about the same size as yours. However, I was not necessarily referring to that specific post, but to your general style of posting. It would seem 90% of your posts are literally hundreds of words long. This one, for instance is well over 1k.

I never suggested that you were less than an intelligent person (as you have done many times to me), I only suggested that you are not great at getting your point across. And, at the same time you are saying I do a piss poor job of understand you, you seem to think I am calling people traitors for playing when the very reason I considered the game is because my friends are there. You see the irony?

Look, Jag. I have no problem with you. We obviously don't see eye to eye, and that's just fine. I am not calling anyone a traitor. I guess I just feel a strong loyalty to the ideology of CoX and it's community. Sure, the community makes the game, but the game also makes the community. NC$oft wronged us, and I am not happy about it. If I have to betray my own personal feelings about them to see my friends, I just might. That is why I am torn.

I came here looking for opinions, and I accepted the answers to my question as what they were, even the ones I don't necessarily agree with. What I did take offense to is a few people in the thread suggesting my premise was wrong. That is why I argue.

[Blue Pulsar]

I just noticed that you came back and added another few hundred words to your post. And they are...

Lately been holding my tongue towards you but I see your game now, I'll play along for a bit. As far as you are concerned in your view everyone that dont hate NCSOFT or play a game you dont like or support that game is a traitor and you seem to act like you speak for the entire community. Ok. Sorry to burst your bubble, but your type are the minority and like it or not, majority of the community have moved on and not sitting around ranting and raving and calling people traitors for playing certain games.

Aggelakis
July 09, 2013, 12:08:24 am This forum isn't forbidden from use by people who enjoy NCsoft's other games or people who don't think NCsoft are a giant pile of horse pockey. This forum isn't forbidden from use by people who enjoy bukakke either, but that toes the line a little over the "PG13" atmosphere we *try* to keep around here.


Now show me where any admin said that playingother games especially of the NCSOFT sort was treason against the ideology of this community or even this website?

I ask you once again... Please, please, please show me where I said that anyone playing GW2 is a traitor.

[Mistress Urd]

Blue: I think people will make their own choice(s) on the matter. I'd like to be the customer lost forever for the poor handling of the shutdown.


I'd say more with less sugar coating, but at this point some folks don't want discussions to go to "that level" so I'll stop here.

[JaguarX]

Well, I admit that your horribly unclear way of trying to make a point may have been misconstrued as flip-flopping when in actuality you were simply not making much sense. I'm not saying that you don't have a valid point, and I'm sorry,  but you aren't that great at making clear points.

I think my point was very clear. If they wasnt instead of going straight for insults, you could have simply asked me to make it a bit more clear for you. But you didnt.

I'm sorry, I don't go by individual people's definitions, but by the ones listed in actual dictionaries. And, again, if you never felt an obligation or duty to the game, then that is the case. We agree on that. Why you keep saying it like we don't, I have no idea.

Because you keep saying like it is treason.

It is rambling if you repeat yourself and use run-on sentences. Which you just did.

Guess you cant see the periods. They are there. Look closer.

It's not so much that I can't read long paragraphs. It's that, again no offense intended, your grammar is lacking, your spelling is distracting, and your typos are abundant. All making it difficult to read.

More insults?  Again as I said, yes guess what I'm repeating myself, if you cant understand the point or its that difficult to read, the proper thing to do it just simply ask for the point to be made clearer but you seem to cant do that and instead go for insults instead. When you throw out insults like you did, then sometimes a person may reply in kind. Just because you dont agree with a point doesnt mean an insult is needed.

As far as writing, I have several stories under my belt. My current novel is sitting at 15k words, and my current screenplay is at well over 25k. Brevity is not exactly my strong suit either.

If brevity is not your strong point either, then dont look down your nose at my posts saying they are tldr even thought the dr part is probably true. What? Only you are allowed to make long posts? And any that may be longer than yours is against the rules? Is it in the dictionary too that you are the final say in how long or short a post should be? Last I check, I dont recall you being in that section. You seem to have a problem with replying in a very condescending tone to any opinion, even after asking for them as you stated many times, that you dont agree with. It make it looks like you are fishing for agreements and ready to attack any that you dont agree with. 

How could I respond to nearly every sentence and not read it?

You didnt respond to every sentence and your reply made it apparent you didnt read every sentence. You chose some, took it way out of context. Talking about flip flopping first you said you couldnt read it, now you're saying that you read every sentence. Which one is it. Not to mention didnt you reply as part of your previous post tldr, which means too long didnt read? Did you read it or not. One sentence and or reply you said you did. The next, it was too hard for you to read or was too long.

(Sheesh, and you said I was insulting you...)

Again, you repeat yourself. No, I never said that playing another game is a betrayal. I was asking for opinions on if others thought it was. And show me where I said "the entire community hates NC."

Show me where I said you said that the entire community hates NC? I said that the entire community dont hate NCSOFT, but did I say that you said that? If I did show me.

I understand that you are probably quite young and don't understand the elasticity of certain words in the modern English language. I don't like it, but it's a fact. Call girl and prostitute may not be 100% synonymous, but they are interchangeable.

And I'm probably not young as you think and I understand words just fine. And again another insult.  First with treason you talk about you only go by the definition that is written in the dictionary. Now you want to twist the term call girl as meaning, to you, your made up definition of it, to mean all prostitutes and argue that not all prostitutes are call girls, by actual definition.  So as I said, you are still saying that all prostitutes are call girls. You're seem to have a problem with the dictionary definition.

Defintion of call girl-
a prostitute with whom an appointment may be made by telephone.


As I said, not all prostitutes make appointments by telephone and the example i gave was streetwalker. Which by webster-merriam definition is not a call girl.

Oh, goody. Question time. Lay it on me.


Wait, where was the question? All I saw was you repeating things you've already said before.

The question was, are you going to play GW2 or not. Decide already and get on with it.



And as I said in my first reply about traitor. Not everyone hold that ideology. So why do you insist on trying to argue that part? If you read my statements instead of reading only bits and pieces you could have got that. If you hold that ideology, fine, but not everyone do. It seems you're the one with a problem with those that dont hold that ideology.

Wow... just... wow.

Wait, so first I'm an unintelligent person who can't read a long paragraph and needs pictures, and then I'm an expert at twisting words?

Yeah. Instead you take bits and pieces and a very small section and twist it around instead of readingf the whole thing and maybe getting a clearer picture of what I'm saying. And again, if you cant get the clear picture, you could have simply asked. Did you do that? Nope. Again, insults, ignoring the points, and twisting a few pieces to have something to argue about.

I miss my friends that went to the game and would like to see them. But on the other side of the coin, I don't really want to support anything that NC$oft does. You are taking the whole "traitor" thing waaaaaaay out of proportion. It was one tiny remark in my original post.


Show me where I said that playing GW2 is on the same level as high treason to ones country. I used the word traitor with it's core definition in mind. You are the one elevating it to something that I never intended. That's your problem, Jag.

Did you not say treason is treason? That was the point I was making with the definition of treason. Depending on view it may not be the same. You was adament to say that all treason is the same. even by posting the actual definition. I dont think I have to show you anything. You keep asking for evidence from me. I showed you evidence that the admin said that this forum isnt for only NCSOFT haters. Yet you didnt show me a post where they said that playing GW2 is against the ideology of this community. Even on community level, that treason word should not even have been elevated to there. In fact it probably shouldnt even been part of the equation like you made it at all.

Congratulations. My post was about the same size as yours. However, I was not necessarily referring to that specific post, but to your general style of posting. It would seem 90% of your posts are literally hundreds of words long. This one, for instance is well over 1k.

So no one is allowed to make posts longer than yours? Show me a dictionary or rule book for that matter that states that?

I never suggested that you were less than an intelligent person (as you have done many times to me), I only suggested that you are not great at getting your point across. And, at the same time you are saying I do a piss poor job of understand you, you seem to think I am calling people traitors for playing when the very reason I considered the game is because my friends are there. You see the irony?

Never suggested I was less than intelligent person? Son, you did so many times, even within this most current reply. Then if you dont think it's treason, or even could be considered treason, then why even ask if it is treason to play GW2 if you already know it's not, which is the point I was making. You basically nullified your entire point and finally get the netire point I was making. Playing GW2 is not treason. But you decided to argue by defintion in the dictionary it is treason against the community.

I'm not saying your question is wrong. I'm saying that you thinking that playing or thinking that playing GW2 could be is or might be treason is wrong. You introduced treason into the equation. And if it has nothing to do with chooseing of the game or the context of what you are saying then why even bother introducing it into your statements as if playing an NCSOFT game is wrong? An answer without insults would be appreciated if you dont like being insulted. And if you dont understand something, just simply ask. It aint going to to kill you nor is a form of treason to  not assume, attack a person, insult them instead of simply asking them to clarify.

yeah you asked for opinions I gave it, especially on the treason part and what you do? Ignore most of the points, insult me,  and focused more on grammar and length. And I replied in kind. Even with the other posts some are long, but I can guess that I didnt break no record here in length. Either way, I dont think the length is the issue and that is a cover and it's that you dont agree thus you ignore all the points and use length as a scapegoat instead of again simply asking for clarification. I'm not sure what you expected but if you attack me, I might attack back. Dont attack me and act civilized then you'll get that from me as well.   

Look, Jag. I have no problem with you. We obviously don't see eye to eye, and that's just fine. I am not calling anyone a traitor. I guess I just feel a strong loyalty to the ideology of CoX and it's community. Sure, the community makes the game, but the game also makes the community. NC$oft wronged us, and I am not happy about it. If I have to betray my own personal feelings about them to see my friends, I just might. That is why I am torn.

Yeah not seeing eye to eye is fine with me. But when you jump into insults then that make it seems like you have a problem with me. Then when it seems you have a problem with me, I might then have a problem with you. Dont insult me I wont insult you. Come at me with a condencending tone, I might reply in kind. And there you go, again with the ideology of the community. Maybe I'm looking at it from a different way than you. I'm looking at that statement as you say as saying that there is one ideology of that community and one have a strong loyalty to that ideology which playing GW2 a NCSOFT game can be treasonous to that ideology. And in reply to that I'm saying I dont think there is one ideology of this community in that regards but more so individual ideology. 

In the end, either way, you have to decide what is more important, friends or you own ideals. Only you can make that choice. Is betraying your own personal feelings, your own words-  "betray my own personal feelings", just in case you forget, worth being with friends? If so, go for it. If not, see them in some other game. The worse it is treason to your own, I repeat, your own beliefs, not to the community or the ideology of the community. 

[Nebularian]

WOW.

Looking at all the posts here, I see many good arguments for both sides.   I guess it does all boil down to what your own convictions tell you.

I played GW1  and thought it was okay...and was actually looking forward to at least trying GW2....before they closed COH.

Since then, I have decided to vote with my wallet.  For myself, my convictions will not let me support NCSoft in any fashion.   And Yes, I do hope that enough people would join in with that.  And yes, even hurt (financially) any organization that works with NCSoft like ArenaNet (perhaps that would warn others off dealing with the asses).

In the final analysis, it comes down to what your convictions are.  Just be aware that your participation in the game does help NCSoft.  It may be a drop in the bucket....but it is a drop that would not be there if you stayed away.

I would not go so far as to say that a COH'er playing GW2 is a traitor.  Wrong maybe, but not a traitor.

Each person should make up their own mind about it....with the understanding that not everyone will agree with your final decision.   But that's okay.....even friends don't always agree on things    But they stay friends

[Aggelakis]

Okie dokie. So. I'm locking this thread now. It's basically run its course about six times over.

Play GW if you want. Don't play GW if you don't want. Curse NCsoft until your dying days if you want. Remain neutral regarding NCsoft. Praise NCsoft. We can't tell you to do or not do something regarding patronage. You have to decide whether you want to do that yourself, and use YOUR OWN reasons - don't cop someone else's reasons and do something, because that makes you a sheep, not a thinker.

Playing GW2 doesn't make you a traitor (except in GG's eyes, but one person doesn't count). Not playing GW2 doesn't make you a saint (except in GG's eyes....again, one person doesn't count).

Choose for yourself what you will do.