NCSoft obviously doesnt care about us

[JaguarX]

 It all boils down to what metric is being used to determine your rewards.  And frankly we have a tendency to reward the wrong behavior while punishing the right.

As an aside, I found this study interesting.

Yup.


Wasa topic that I chose to write a report about that in a psy. class. Found some interesting stuff on it and had to do some interviews of people about this. One answer that I still remember till this day about why a person is suspicious of someone offering help. They  said well "it have become the norm that everyone is trying to rip you off or use you to get over so when somone come along that is trying to help more than likely they are looking for something in return. These days, no one does good deeds to do good deeds." That got me thinking has society fallen so much that you cant even help one another without looking irregular? While other answers was relatively the same, none was really as in depth to the reason.

[Rust]

I'd argue there are plenty of people who do good for the sake of doing good, they just are never called attention to. The Mass Media of our age has become so violent and petulant ("If it bleeds, it leads." as my old instructor used to say) that getting a positive story out on the airwaves is frankly a rarity any more.

That, in turn, has shaped public perception of reality to be a far darker, abysmal place then it actually is. It still is dark, but the kindness of strangers is not a dying art. Just a quiet one.

[JaguarX]

I'd argue there are plenty of people who do good for the sake of doing good, they just are never called attention to. The Mass Media of our age has become so violent and petulant ("If it bleeds, it leads." as my old instructor used to say) that getting a positive story out on the airwaves is frankly a rarity any more.

That, in turn, has shaped public perception of reality to be a far darker, abysmal place then it actually is. It still is dark, but the kindness of strangers is not a dying art. Just a quiet one.

yup.

[Mantic]

Until the 1980's, the thought of a company without concern for its customers or employees was enough to force companies out of business.

But we have been educated. That started around the 1950s -- the educational push to transform Americans especially into corporate capitalist cheerleaders ready to line up in defense of companies that do anything possible within the law to maximize returns.

Of course, the modern publicly traded corporate entity has been the same for much longer; every time an independent human entrepreneur built a major company and allowed it make this transformation it became a beast, subjugating or forcing out the founder(s) and their families and divorcing itself from any humanity that it's lucrative "brand" may have been built on. Most people in our grandparents' and great-grandparents' generations were wise to the problem, because they were educated to prize humanity over fiscal optimization. But then, after WWII, the major corporations took advantage of ties they'd gained with the government during the war to push a soulless fiscal philosophy on wide swaths of young people in the name of 'business.'

I may not have a great deal of affinity with the hippie movement, but I can see why they rebelled against that indoctrination at the time. Of course, I can also see that most of those who "dropped out and tuned in" in the late 1960s still wound up selling out and buying in by the 1980s. There was only one Ralph Nader, and I suspect being the Don Quixote for so long might have driven him insane...

So it's hard to have a lot of faith in the current generations turning decades of pro-corporate education around, now that probably a majority of the population grew up in the wake of the '80s. Heck, most of the new major companies our generation has spawned start out behaving no differently. It seems more likely the human herd will only become better manipulated and better managed by it's corporate masters for centuries to come.

^^^
Not particularly speaking about NCSoft and CoX, though Kim's decision does reflect the sort of cold business that gets more knee-jerk cheerleading than criticism these days.

[FatherXmas]

"If it bleeds, it leads" has been around forever in the press Rust.  It's just now if there isn't anything local we'll go national and imply in the headline or bump before commercial that it is local.  The news media only purpose isn't to convey the facts about an event but also to make money or at the very least break even.  It that means we will present the facts in such a way to sell more papers, keep viewers watching or cause someone to click on a headline, then so be it.

What WWII did for manufacturing was to find ways to optimize production to maximize goods for the war effort.  And that meant in some cases cutting corners and a blind eye was turned.  It's tough to go back doing things "properly" once all your current metrics indicate that "properly" means lower output and higher cost.

Corporate management went from trained from within to taught at universities where it didn't matter what you were managing because you're taught to manage by the numbers.  That every business's processes can be distilled into cold hard numbers without the need to be knowledgeable about your customers, employees or product.  And these jerks have taken over.  CFOs instead just being head of accounting, again being promoted from within, becomes someone who's trained in fiscal tricks to maximize apparent value so the stock analysts are happy, even if these tricks damages the company's fiscal condition in the long term.

[Pinnacle Blue]

They do - the fact that so many of them think that they don't is the reason so many people feel such contempt for big business.

Thank you.  Maximizing profit without regard to your consumers can (and does) verge into sociopathic territory.

[Pinnacle Blue]

Pretty sure nobody ever said they are a shareholder in NCSOFT, at least not currently.

Then perhaps you should check the "Stockwatch" thread.

As to the rest of it, I don't give one tenth of a rat's ass whether or not NCSoft had a moral obligation to keep a profitable game open or sell it.  The sum total of my position is not doing so was a gigantic dick move, and I can't see subjecting myself to that kind of thing in the future from the same damn people.

Edit: To further clarify:  I can't see why anyone who was subjected to the aforementioned dick move would do so either, and I am-- once again-- not interested in an answer from someone with something to gain from that kind of stupidity.

Do we need to take a poll and grab the numbers about who here would and would rather not give NCSoft one more dime for anything NOT CoX?

[JaguarX]

Thank you.  Maximizing profit without regard to your consumers can (and does) verge into sociopathic territory.

yup.


But then again, if thier regards in maximizing profits is not the consumer but another group then by definition they are not socipathic. Just like many feed their family but dont give two thoguhts about the guy that is starving four blocks away. Although the moral responsible thing to do would be give him  plate each meal. But people feel they are morally responsible for some groups but not always all groups and dont deemed themselves sociopathic, or else really we all would be by definition sociopathic.

a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

[Pinnacle Blue]

Okay, I'm not quite sure what happened there, but whatever. 

[Aggelakis]

Okay, I'm not quite sure what happened there, but whatever. 

You hit quote instead of modify I fixt it for you!
(I usually do the opposite...no idea how many times I've almost obliterated someone's post because I modified it instead of quoting. I've actually obliterated a couple posts, but it's been a long time since I did that because I'm much more careful now! lol)

[Turjan]

That, in turn, has shaped public perception of reality to be a far darker, abysmal place then it actually is. It still is dark, but the kindness of strangers is not a dying art. Just a quiet one.

Damn right

One of the biggest offenders in skewing public opinion like that is the emergence of 24hr rolling news stations. They have time to fill, and while nature may abhor a vacuum, it's got nothing on a news channel! If there's a hole in their programming they fill it immediately with wild speculation, repetition, and hyperbole.

What a lot of people tend to forget (or perhaps never considered in the first place) is that almost by definition, stories appearing on tv news are 'aberrant'. News media isn't in the business of giving column inches or airtime to the mudane and everyday, they want sensationalism, they want it NOW, and if there isn't any around they'll just make some up.

You don't see news articles saying "A lady dropped her credit card today while shopping. Fortunately a helpful person found the card and handed it in to the store staff who were able to contact the lady and she was reunited with her card within minutes." - because small acts of kindness like that happen all the time, so they're not newsworthy. In fact I was the 'helpful person' in that exact scenario just a couple of days ago in my local supermarket. Such acts of kindness are the very glue that keeps society together.

How do I know? Because people continue to live in cities and towns and to go about their business every day. And every day is much like the day before, and the day after will be much the same as today.

And it's perhaps because of this that no one would want to read a book that started with the phrase "And they all lived happily ever after". People prefer to watch news stories about crime, car chases, war, health scares...basically the same kind of exciting stuff they'd find in a novel or action film.

Because they're not watching the news for information, they're watching for entertainment.

The trouble comes when people allow the media to fill their desire for such entertainment at the expense of their objectivity. When too many people subjectively believe that what they see on tv news is actually representative of reality, then the aberrant becomes the norm - it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

However - never forget that if the world was really as dark as the media try to paint it, there'd be no civilisation, no communities, just anarchy.

So here's the most ironic part - in a way I'm actually happy for the media to keep vomiting out their black bile.
Why?
Because as long as their dark stories draw viewers, it means they still are aberrant. If the dark really was the norm, no one would watch the dark news stories because they'd be boring and mundane.

So the mere fact the news is dark reassures me that humanity itself is not.

[Pinnacle Blue]

You hit quote instead of modify I fixt it for you!
(I usually do the opposite...no idea how many times I've almost obliterated someone's post because I modified it instead of quoting. I've actually obliterated a couple posts, but it's been a long time since I did that because I'm much more careful now! lol)

Thank you, kind Administrator being!  Question:  does this forum allow for polls?

[JaguarX]

Damn right

One of the biggest offenders in skewing public opinion like that is the emergence of 24hr rolling news stations. They have time to fill, and while nature may abhor a vacuum, it's got nothing on a news channel! If there's a hole in their programming they fill it immediately with wild speculation, repetition, and hyperbole.

What a lot of people tend to forget (or perhaps never considered in the first place) is that almost by definition, stories appearing on tv news are 'aberrant'. News media isn't in the business of giving column inches or airtime to the mudane and everyday, they want sensationalism, they want it NOW, and if there isn't any around they'll just make some up.

You don't see news articles saying "A lady dropped her credit card today while shopping. Fortunately a helpful person found the card and handed it in to the store staff who were able to contact the lady and she was reunited with her card within minutes." - because small acts of kindness like that happen all the time, so they're not newsworthy. In fact I was the 'helpful person' in that exact scenario just a couple of days ago in my local supermarket. Such acts of kindness are the very glue that keeps society together.

How do I know? Because people continue to live in cities and towns and to go about their business every day. And every day is much like the day before, and the day after will be much the same as today.

And it's perhaps because of this that no one would want to read a book that started with the phrase "And they all lived happily ever after". People prefer to watch news stories about crime, car chases, war, health scares...basically the same kind of exciting stuff they'd find in a novel or action film.

Because they're not watching the news for information, they're watching for entertainment.

The trouble comes when people allow the media to fill their desire for such entertainment at the expense of their objectivity. When too many people subjectively believe that what they see on tv news is actually representative of reality, then the aberrant becomes the norm - it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

However - never forget that if the world was really as dark as the media try to paint it, there'd be no civilisation, no communities, just anarchy.

So here's the most ironic part - in a way I'm actually happy for the media to keep vomiting out their black bile.
Why?
Because as long as their dark stories draw viewers, it means they still are aberrant. If the dark really was the norm, no one would watch the dark news stories because they'd be boring and mundane.

So the mere fact the news is dark reassures me that humanity itself is not.

Good stuff.

Yeah overall, society is mundane and quiet, but there are some people's lives are stranger than fiction. I know a guy who always had a bleak out look on the world. I wondered why so one day I did the unthinkable, I actually simply asked why instead of making up my own reasons and assumptions. He basically told me that every single week for the past 5 years someone he knows is either being buried after getting shot or off to jail for shooting. And yeah his world, it's bleak.  Ad ironically none of those cases even made it to the news. It was so common that the news didnt bother with it. But someone shoots up a theater, they are over it. People expect people to get shot in certain places but who expects to get murked at a movie theater?

[Captain Electric]

Thank you, kind Administrator being!  Question:  does this forum allow for polls?

Don't be in too much of a hurry. A lot of people here dived immediately back into NCSoft's arms following the closure. I don't bring this up because I think those people are terrible human beings, I'm bringing it up because I think these people would love to show up in your poll as an unwelcome surprise. The only thing I know for sure about those folks is that it's their life, their money, their lessons, their business. Not yours or mine.

[JaguarX]

Don't be in too much of a hurry. A lot of people here dived immediately back into NCSoft's arms following the closure. I don't bring this up because I think those people are terrible human beings, I'm bringing it up because I think these people would love to show up in your poll as an unwelcome surprise. The only thing I know for sure about those folks is that it's their life, their money, their lessons, their business. Not yours or mine.

yup.

[FatherXmas]

Then perhaps you should check the "Stockwatch" thread.

There are 30 posts with the word "stockholder" in it in that thread.  None that said or implied the poster was a stockholder.  Same is true with the word "own".  Perhaps you should check that thread and link to the post where someone says they own NCSOFT.

If you can't provide proof then don't accuse.

[Aggelakis]

There are 30 posts with the word "stockholder" in it in that thread.  None that said or implied the poster was a stockholder.  Same is true with the word "own".  Perhaps you should check that thread and link to the post where someone says they own NCSOFT.

If you can't provide proof then don't accuse.

Look at the post immediately above yours (the one Pinnacle quoted) in this. JaguarX says in the second paragraph that he bought stocks, apparently a decent amount of them from multiple previous comments on the topic. :p

[JaguarX]

Look at the post immediately above yours (the one Pinnacle quoted) in this. JaguarX says in the second paragraph that he bought stocks, apparently a decent amount of them from multiple previous comments on the topic. :p

yup.

[Pinnacle Blue]

Don't be in too much of a hurry. A lot of people here dived immediately back into NCSoft's arms following the closure. I don't bring this up because I think those people are terrible human beings, I'm bringing it up because I think these people would love to show up in your poll as an unwelcome surprise. The only thing I know for sure about those folks is that it's their life, their money, their lessons, their business. Not yours or mine.

For the record, I don't think they're terrible people either-- but if Lucy takes their football away-- excuse me, realigns her focus-- when they go to kick it, what are they going to say?  That they really thought she wouldn't this time, no matter what her past actions indicate?

That said, I'm not expecting it to be three or four people who say they would give NCSoft money again.  I don't have expectations here.  A poll would be just that: a poll.  If it skews in a way I personally don't like, I can deal with that.  But I would at least like to know where the community stands, or at least where the portion of them that answered the hypothetical poll stands.

[Pinnacle Blue]

There are 30 posts with the word "stockholder" in it in that thread.  None that said or implied the poster was a stockholder.  Same is true with the word "own".  Perhaps you should check that thread and link to the post where someone says they own NCSOFT.

If you can't provide proof then don't accuse.

Minimal investigation is all it would have taken you to find this out, as this is on the very last (i.e., most recent) page of the stockwatch thread:

looks like it's going up today some compared to Friday.

Did the math on what my friend invested in way back in 2009, 4,000 shares, then andn ot sure nor didnt ask how many they bought recently but just by that 4,000 shares from 2009, and if they sold today they would pocket about a decent sum of money. Still wished I put in way back then. If my math is correct about $500,000 odd for their about $180,000 investment.

But me, I'm still in the red by about $8-$9 a share.

Apart from the link in the quote, here's the link to said page of that thread: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,5250.2100.html

Also please note that the illustrious Mr. JaguarX never denied owning any shares, as that would have been ludicrously disprovable, and an admin is backing me up as having seen same.  I believe we can move on from this now.