NCSoft obviously doesnt care about us

[houtex]

This isn't that pile of tapes/floppies/Zip disks/DVD-ROMs/Blu-Ray ROMs that you have laying around your home or office that says "BACKUP <data> 1 of X" on it.

My floppies don't don't say that... Wait, are we talking the 3.5" or the 5.25" ones?  Maybe those 5.25" ones do... Hm.  Haveta go look...

[Phaetan]

Mine just say, "Hey, remember when you could double your storage capacity with a holepunch?"

They're weird that way.

[Botzo]

They're likely keeping something, but to be honest I remember going back to the sunset page and noticed that they had said the shutdown was permanent. I don't remember seeing that when the Sunset page originally went up.

"After hosting the final heroic battle between good and evil, the City of Heroes servers shut down permanently on November 30, 2012.

The Heroes and Villains have taken to the skies of City of Heroes for the last time, but the game and community will forever remain in our memories and hearts.

We thank our fans for their years of support. We couldn't have gone this far without you."

Yeah. I pulled this from the front page. Hard to believe  it has been so long since November 30th. But I have faith in the Teams working on the new projects. Just a bit antsy. All good things take time.

[Blondeshell]

They're likely keeping something, but to be honest I remember going back to the sunset page and noticed that they had said the shutdown was permanent. I don't remember seeing that when the Sunset page originally went up.

If it didn't say "permanently" right away, it was changed within the first week (at least by December 6):

http://web.archive.org/web/20121206015610/http://www.cityofheroes.com/en/sunset.php

[Captain Electric]

After hosting the final heroic battle between good and evil, the City of Heroes servers shut down permanently on November 30, 2012.

Why so serious, NCSoft? 

[CoyoteSeven]

My floppies don't don't say that... Wait, are we talking the 3.5" or the 5.25" ones?  Maybe those 5.25" ones do... Hm.  Haveta go look...

8" floppies. My most recent backup of my CP/M system.

[houtex]

Man those were HUGE.  I was always afraid I'd bend them putting them in the drives.

Quick story about 8" floppies...
I wasn't yet with the company, but they told it so good that I remember all the details.  One of our guys kept getting a call from this woman who was using the database software we sold.  She had an interesting accent too.

"Dave, I keep typsin this stuff in, and back it up to that floppy on Friday, and then when I come in Monday, it's all GONE."
"Huh.  Well, Mary, try backing it up tonight and see what happens."
"Ok."

This continued for a few calls, and she has to reformat the floppies every time this happens.  Finally, Dave decided to go there and see what the fuss was all about (she was in town, and was HELLA mad at this point.)

"Ok, Mary, show me what you do."
"Awrighty.  See here, I just types this stuff in... and then I save it to that floppy like y'all say..."
"Ok, hold on, Mary.  Let me have a look."

Dave proceeds to verify the data is good.  He then dismounts the drive, then mounts it again... checks the data on it... yep, all is good.

"Ok, well that looks ok.  Hm.  Ok, what do you do with the floppy when you back it up?"
"I take it out of the floppy drive, put it in the sleeve, and then put it up against this here file cabinet."

Whereupon she does this very act, and plonks a big magnet right on top of the floppy disk, and voila, handy storage.

Needless to say, back then, it was a HOOT to hear this story.  And of course, the problem was solved, she got taught about magnetic media and how not to store floppies.

/Fracking magnets.  How do they work!?
//Aand I'm sorta showing my age, but I fail to care these days. Heh.

[Pherdnut]

They pissed away ten million-ish a year and alienated everybody who ever liked COH for reasons that are still a mystery to all. Why would you expect reason, intelligence or competence from such people? And yes, absolutely scorch that Earth. I don't know about the rest of the world but if Americans weren't such wusses about wielding their spending habits like a weapon, we wouldn't get half the abuse from the corporate world that we do. I will never ever play another NCSoft game. Why would I? I might like it a lot and it might get shut down for no discernible reason whatsoever.

[JaguarX]

They pissed away ten million-ish a year and alienated everybody who ever liked COH for reasons that are still a mystery to all. Why would you expect reason, intelligence or competence from such people? And yes, absolutely scorch that Earth. I don't know about the rest of the world but if Americans weren't such wusses about wielding their spending habits like a weapon, we wouldn't get half the abuse from the corporate world that we do. I will never ever play another NCSoft game. Why would I? I might like it a lot and it might get shut down for no discernible reason whatsoever.

yup.

[Pinnacle Blue]

Why on earth would you WANT to?

There is no answer (other than, "I wouldn't," that is) that will ever make sense to me if it comes from a former CoH player.  I want nothing but bad luck and trouble to visit their HQ until they have to release the IP.

[JaguarX]

There is no answer (other than, "I wouldn't," that is) that will ever make sense to me if it comes from a former CoH player.  I want nothing but bad luck and trouble to visit their HQ until they have to release the IP.

well sometimes people figure it was coming, or they knew it could happen, or maybe they feel its just part of the risk of playing an MMO, and or they think the next NCSoft game is worth the risk, or they dont feel like thye got burned, or it even could be that they didnt put their heart and soul into it and possible other games and think it's just another game, or various other reasons.

Even as it stand other game companies can still shut down their games at any time. Some people after this is put off from MMO period maybe do that reason, some moved on to other games, where the possibility of that game getting shutdown some time in the future is tsill there. Some people refuse to play any mmo now. Others, just went to the nearest super hero mmo port in this storm. While others still cant bring themselves to play anything  any game. There isa reason for everything and with every reason there is some that dont see the reason and or understand the reason. Neither is wrong just different views feelings and ways of dealing with what happened.

Me personally, if NCsoft came out with a game I'd like to play I would gladly do it as I have before playing COX after learning they had a penchant for shutting down games, and even when other games not COX got shut down. It didnt stop me then, it wont stop me now. It's a risk I was aware of for a long time before even playing COX. But then that was based on my experience and my view. With another it will vary. Some didnt know and it hit them like a ton of bricks and they wont play another ncsoft title ever again. While some wont play another title ever again unless ncsoft somehow release COX again and some will be right back in game like nothing happened and like they never said they will never play another ncsoft title again. It's their way of dealing with it and view based on their experiences.

[Pinnacle Blue]

well sometimes people figure it was coming, or they knew it could happen, or maybe they feel its just part of the risk of playing an MMO, and or they think the next NCSoft game is worth the risk, or they dont feel like thye got burned, or it even could be that they didnt put their heart and soul into it and possible other games and think it's just another game, or various other reasons.

Even as it stand other game companies can still shut down their games at any time. Some people after this is put off from MMO period maybe do that reason, some moved on to other games, where the possibility of that game getting shutdown some time in the future is tsill there. Some people refuse to play any mmo now. Others, just went to the nearest super hero mmo port in this storm. While others still cant bring themselves to play anything  any game. There isa reason for everything and with every reason there is some that dont see the reason and or understand the reason. Neither is wrong just different views feelings and ways of dealing with what happened.

Me personally, if NCsoft came out with a game I'd like to play I would gladly do it as I have before playing COX after learning they had a penchant for shutting down games, and even when other games not COX got shut down. It didnt stop me then, it wont stop me now. It's a risk I was aware of for a long time before even playing COX. But then that was based on my experience and my view. With another it will vary. Some didnt know and it hit them like a ton of bricks and they wont play another ncsoft title ever again. While some wont play another title ever again unless ncsoft somehow release COX again and some will be right back in game like nothing happened and like they never said they will never play another ncsoft title again. It's their way of dealing with it and view based on their experiences.

Spoken like one of their admitted shareholders.

CoX was a profitable game.  They never considered selling it-- they just took it away for no humanly discernible reason (unless you want to believe the bullshit line they fed us).  There is NO justification they can give for this move.  It defies logic and sanity and most of us have no interest in Lucy's promise that the football will be there when we arrive to kick it.

Hardly anyone here is interested at all in what one of NCSoft's admitted shareholders has to say about why we should want to give them any money.  By definition, you have a stake in this happening.  I have no such stake, and therefore wish the aforementioned bad luck and trouble to visit their HQ daily.

Understand this:  Neither me nor anyone else who is still upset over this senseless act of corporate stupidity is interested in any after-the-fact justifications or reasons to continue trusting NCSoft.  That kind of misplaced trust benefits you.  In the meantime, I'm hoping the company is revealed to have been engaging in the kind of shady accounting practices that came to light with Enron.  If that or anything remotely similar happens, you better believe I am going to throw my own personal Mardi Gras over the fact that NCSoft is dead.  I am literally going to drink champagne and bake a huge friggin' king cake and dance in the god damn street.

If that means you lose your whole investment, well, your loss would just be collateral damage, and I can live with that.  In the meantime, please be advised that your constant defending of NCSoft is as boring as it is transparent.

[thunderforce]

Spoken like one of their admitted shareholders.

Are they really? That explains a lot.

[JaguarX]

Spoken like one of their admitted shareholders.

CoX was a profitable game.  They never considered selling it-- they just took it away for no humanly discernible reason (unless you want to believe the bullshit line they fed us).  There is NO justification they can give for this move.  It defies logic and sanity and most of us have no interest in Lucy's promise that the football will be there when we arrive to kick it.

Hardly anyone here is interested at all in what one of NCSoft's admitted shareholders has to say about why we should want to give them any money.  By definition, you have a stake in this happening.  I have no such stake, and therefore wish the aforementioned bad luck and trouble to visit their HQ daily.

Understand this:  Neither me nor anyone else who is still upset over this senseless act of corporate stupidity is interested in any after-the-fact justifications or reasons to continue trusting NCSoft.  That kind of misplaced trust benefits you.  In the meantime, I'm hoping the company is revealed to have been engaging in the kind of shady accounting practices that came to light with Enron.  If that or anything remotely similar happens, you better believe I am going to throw my own personal Mardi Gras over the fact that NCSoft is dead.  I am literally going to drink champagne and bake a huge friggin' king cake and dance in the god damn street.

If that means you lose your whole investment, well, your loss would just be collateral damage, and I can live with that.  In the meantime, please be advised that your constant defending of NCSoft is as boring as it is transparent.

Well then all you have to do then is ask the people that did return to theg ames like GW series. I believe there is a whole thread about people asking "who else is playing GWs" right here on this forum. If thier reason and Logic and sanity is so beyond your understanding, then why not just and ask them. You dont have to take it from me.

And I bought their stock afetr the shut down, which I was going to do either way regardless of the shut down or not. Business is business. Altough I should of did what my friend said and did and got into it way back in 2008-2009 period, but better late than never.

And in that post I wasnt defending NCSoft at all. You asked why someone would go to those games after this I gave reasons. Some are what others told me some are just guesses, nothing to do with NCSoft.

I was one of those that years back said that NCSoft have a tendency to close games, I said that MMO can close, be careful, and guess what, people like you refused to listen. Now look at ya. MAd at the world and think everything is about defending NCSOFT. What's boring is your contant putting down of NCSOFT because they took your game, a game you dont even own by the way. When years ago, when Itold about NCSOFT business practices, people like you completely ignored, the same business practices that put you in a fit right now as we speak. So I figured well either they already know the risk or dont care and left it alone. Now dont come back at me with defending NCSOFT when you asked the question why people still play NCSOFT because you are personally pissed at them and wish to not play. The true answer is because that is what they choose to do and if you choose not to. Fine, but those that do doesnt make them insane or illogical. It's insane to expect everyone now to leave because now you are just now catching on to what I been saying for yeasr since they closed down Auto assault and again when they shut down Dungeon Runners and once more when they shut down Tabual Rasa. You aint have a single regret or ill feeling towards their business practices then and now you cant expect everyoen to jump on your bandwagon because NOW you have a problem with it, something they been doing for years prior to COX shut down.

As I said, you want to know the reason, go ask the players that decided to move on to another game like GW and other NCSOFT offerings instead of choosing ot be like you and trun everything into about NCSOFT and getting on anyone case that isnt drinking your kool aid. I want COX back, it was profitbale it shouldnt have been shut down. But it has. Now what? I'm hoping these three replacements fill that void now. Not everyone is going to carry that hate and anger like you forever against NCSOFT. For someone that dont care about them you sure do talk about thwem alot. You think NCSOFT give a crap about you? Nope. Think they give a crap if they never get another dime from you?> Nope. So be mad, stay angry, dont play MMOs every again for all I care and probably for all NCSOFT care. Your problem not mine, not NCSOFT and not anyone else that choose to play another game NCSOFT or not. Deal with your anger before it consumes you.

And I guess it never even occured to you that as I invest, that mean as a shareholder I can actually bring up the issue of COX closing down at the annual meeting? Might be able to shed some light to other stockholders and get their view on it and go from there and question their business practices and see if it's good for business or not. From what I gather from the other few that I know in the states that I came across, they have no idea about you, how you feel about it, the community here, or even ever played COX. They might not even give a crap. But they cant care about something they do not know about and quite frankly you are not giving me anything to work with besides "you hate NCSOFT and everyone else is supposed to also now that you do" but prior to the announcement you probably would have and probably was one that defended NCSOFT all day and night even when it was told about their business practices towards games they no longer want. So now because you are pissed I am and everyone is supposed be too? Get over yourself. You're pissed that is fine and that is your decision. And others have made theirs. Some decided to partake in other games like GW, some have not. Some hold no animosity towards NCSOFT for that shutdown some do. Get over it. It's called real life. What you do, is your choice. If you decide to stay angry forever until you die, fine with me and many others, I wont shed a single tear or try to convince you as I have never done, to partake in another one of those games. But dont try to convince me to be all of a sudden pissed at them just because you are.

Unlike you I am able to separate my emotions from business mindset. With your mindset where anger and emotions rules your every move, you might want to stay out of the business world, in fact stay out of the MMO world because the truth is that any of them can be shut down anytime any where for any reason NCSOFT game or not. I'm sad that COX is gone, emotionally but it wont stop me from looking at it from a business stand point too. That is more feeling many people I know that also played COX have for it. Some dont give a crap that it got shut down it was another MMO that got closed due to lack of business in their minds.

[FatherXmas]

Pretty sure nobody ever said they are a shareholder in NCSOFT, at least not currently.

While the game generated $10 million in sales it wasn't a lot compared to their other properties.

They decided that the costs they had supporting the game would be better used to support newer games with much higher short term sales potential.

IMO their action is equivalent to a restaurant removing a rarely ordered item off the menu and replacing it with one that is likely to be considerably more popular.  Sucks if you went there for the item they removed but in the long run they are willing to lose your business if it means replacing you with 5 new customers.

Was NCSOFT "morally" obligated to keep it open regardless?  Or sell it?  Of course not, businesses are only obligated to their owners, keeping the customer happy is merely a nicety along the way to the true goal which is increasing profits.  They saw no growth in profitability in the game or potential for a new source from the studio and they decided to take those resources and invest them into projects and games they thought had better short and long term potential for profits.  So that means we and Paragon got the short end of the stick.  Guess what, that's how large businesses work.  Bigger picture, not individual projects or customers.  If a company is smaller, wasn't public which would allow the owners to include other considerations other than profits in their decision making process it may have been a different story.  It's not, it wasn't, they killed the game, the studio and locked up the IP for a rainy day or simply to deny a competitor.

Guild Wars stayed alive because of the investment they had made toward the development of Guild Wars 2.  Paragon Studios didn't have a successor (just another MMO, didn't need to be CoH based) that NCSOFT thought was worth developing further.  If they did then in all likelihood CoH wouldn't have been shut down.

Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa never had a big enough following to pay back the development quick enough so were shut down.  Dungeon Runners was another case of too little income to be bothered with keeping it running.

So again if you believe that a corporation has any obligation to their customer, employees, community where they are located beyond what's necessary to maximize profit then you might as well live in an MMO surrounded with other mythical creatures.  Say hi to the unicorns, elves and dragons for me.

[JaguarX]

While the game generated $10 million in sales it wasn't a lot compared to their other properties.

They decided that the costs they had supporting the game would be better used to support newer games with much higher short term sales.

IMO their action is equivalent to a restaurant removing a rarely ordered item off the menu and replacing it with one that is likely to be considerably more popular.  Sucks if you went there for the item they removed but in the long run they are willing to lose your business if it means replacing you with 5 new customers.

Was NCSOFT "morally" obligated to keep it open regardless?  Or sell it?  Of course not, businesses are only obligated to their owners, keeping the customer happy is merely a nicety along the way to the true goal which is increasing profits.  They saw no growth in profitability in the game or potential for a new source from the studio and they decided to take those resources and invest them into projects and games they thought had better short and long term potential for profits.  So that means we and Paragon got the short end of the stick.  Guess what, that's how large businesses work.  Bigger picture, not individual projects or customers.  If a company is smaller, wasn't public which would allow the owners to include other considerations other than profits in their decision making process it may have been a different story.  It's not, it wasn't, they killed the game, the studio and locked up the IP for a rainy day or simply to deny a competitor.

Guild Wars stayed alive because of the investment they had made toward the development of Guild Wars 2.  Paragon Studios didn't have a successor (just another MMO, didn't need to be CoH based) that NCSOFT thought was worth developing further.  If they did then in all likelihood CoH wouldn't have been shut down.

Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa never had a big enough following to pay back the development quick enough so were shut down.  Dungeon Runners was another case of too little income to be bothered with keeping it running.

So again if you believe that a corporation has any obligation to their customer, employees, community where they are located beyond what's necessary to maximize profit then you might as well live in an MMO with other mythical creatures.  Say hi to the unicorns for me.

Basically.

Peopel forget that the point of a business is business. Not to please their every single desire and make business decison on every other product except the one they like.

[Golden Girl]

believe that a corporation has any obligation to their customer, employees, community where they are located beyond what's necessary to maximize profit

They do - the fact that so many of them think that they don't is the reason so many people feel such contempt for big business.

[downix]

They do - the fact that so many of them think that they don't is the reason so many people feel such contempt for big business.

This is quite right GG. Until the 1980's, the thought of a company without concern for its customers or employees was enough to force companies out of business.

[JaguarX]

They do - the fact that so many of them think that they don't is the reason so many people feel such contempt for big business.

Probably. But the way to show approval and disapproval is with money. A person can hold contempt for a corporation all they want but it do no good if they give them money unless they want it to stay the same where corporations dont care and they continue to hold contempt. Remember most corporation decision makers dont put too much time in reading review sites and such. They see charts and graphs. As long as it looks good to them, as far as the yare concerned they are doing an excellent job.

When those lines start going down and below expectations, then someone is not doing a good job and someone is about to get fired if things dont turn around.

Like EA and Bank of America. Known on review sites of not giving two craps about their customers, to many reviews out there, yet they bring in big money each month. For all the hate for BOA, still their Q1 profits rose by 2.3 billions. As far as those people look at that and make the decisions, their practices are working and just. Ground level is it? From the customer reviews it doesnt seem so. But opinions dont put food on the table. Money do.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/17/bank-of-america-q1-2013-earnings_n_3099126.html

[FatherXmas]

Well in the case of BoA, like other megabanks the average customer's checking and savings is a pittance compared to what they really make their money on.  We really need to go back to the day where investment banks and commercial banks were two separate entities again.  That's when banking went south, when they allowed investment and commercial banks to merge as well as insurance companies.

GG, as for corporations, generations of management taught and reinforced with rewards based on simple dollars and cents.  Is it better for a car company to recall a model line for a defect or settle with the families that the defect help kill a family member?  Is it cheaper to offer health insurance or switch over to part time employees that don't qualify under the ACA?  Is it cheaper to properly dispose of industrial waste or hire some shady guys to dump it in an old quarry two towns over?  And all of that because stock market analysts expect the impossible goal of yearly sales and profit growth and will savagely beat your stock price down if you didn't meet their expectations.  And as a public company your owners are stock holders and most likely they include senior management and the Board of Directors.

 It all boils down to what metric is being used to determine your rewards.  And frankly we have a tendency to reward the wrong behavior while punishing the right.

As an aside, I found this study interesting.