Author Topic: The Community Server Shouldn't Be Central; Shouldn't be Massive Multiplayer  (Read 18339 times)

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
I actually only rejoined about a week or two before the drop of i22, and I was able to get through every TF, trial, and iTrial. Got some of the SFs done redside, but I never really had a redside toon I fell in love with. People were there to do the weirder content if you reached out to people and stepped outside of your comfort zone. My Doctor Q ended with 5 people still there, but we persevered. I can confess I never got the bomb badge from the UG, no matter how many times I tried, but I think that's just the breaks.

Having it so people could make their own servers, while still trying to make one more centralized to me feels like the best idea. Clearly if they want to they can go after any servers anywhere, legitimate of them to do so or not, so it feels best to make it so people can never lose access to creating them... but at the same time, we are a community. The game is a multiplayer game, even if it solos sweetly.

It would be a shame if we lost that preemptively.
well I always reached out. Every TF I did I had to form the team. It just that it seems I wasnt there when you was where the people that was interested in doing thta stuff was. And by the time they logged, there wasnt much interest. Many times especially the Dr Q we had to call it quits because just no one responding or itching to join at that time and space and period I was on and able to do it or any time period I was able to get on, All day weekends, well after 5 on weekdays due to work, and usually the team only call it after about 1.5 to 2 hours of trying to recruit. So it definately not because I wasnt reaching out or not trying that seems to be automatically assumed when people say they couldnt form teams to do the TF. I mean, besides that, it was not exactly there were people lining up 24/7 to do the shard TFs and advertising they are forming a team or else I wouldnt have had to form the team everytime I wanted to do a TF that wasnt the usual ITF or farm thing. It was even worse for redside.

And that is why, given that the population probably will be even smaller than it was in sept 2011, there will be even less people to do those tfs that are not farm centric or the FoTM and thus hope they open up the TFs to solo players that may not be lucky enough to run into people that glad jump on the non-farm non FoTM TFs/Trials and not be hindered because of so. Because then what would be the point of joining any server if it's less secure than before but the same old missions again, and those missions that havent been done yet still cant do them due to lack of people or not having the perfect timing of running into bunch of people itching to do things like Dr Q. I dont think even though it's been over a year, another round of the usual kill CoT, talk to this person across the map talk to that person in that zone, Go across IP for this one little mish, when the stuff I'm interested in still cant be done because it's still team gated. I might as well stay in CO. Not much is team gated and if there is not enough interested in something, outside alerts, you still can dive right on in with what ever you got. Instead of being punished because the focus is farm and FoTM and bad timing of not coming across the few that also like to do that TF at that particular time. It's like the game basically said "Farm like everyone else! Do what every else want to do! You need 8, cant get 8 to do something different? Tough. Now go farm like everyone else?" And as much I wish the private server or what every game succeed no matter what route even with the usual team locked stuff, I personally wont even bother even partaking not a single day again. I aint going back to that every again especially when something offers an alternative that doesnt seem to frown upon solo play for those that either dotn have luck to come across people interesting that particular task, or not social bugs. And before anyone ask "Why play an MMO?"  first no where in MMO does it says teaming is a must. it's multiplayer doesnt say anything about You must team with people all day all the time. Two, if they made console version or PC single player versions that is where I be. Seeing how they didnt or dont, here it is. Three I enjoy the game that doesnt mean I enjoy having to be surrounded by people 24/7 all day all night everytime I want to fight something that involved something more complicated than retrieving a book for Azuria or killing all of a certain group in a cave.

Captain Electric

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 674
  • Crime doesn't pay, evildoers!
    • CoH Faces Profile
I was wrong about not having anything else to add.  :P

You all shouldn't see a local server as a solo server, and nothing in the OP even brings up the idea of "solo servers". The idea that you could solo on your private server if you wanted to is a given, but the idea that you could solo on Freedom at peak hours was also a given. Basically, nothing's changed in that sense. If you have an Internet connection and can invite people to come play with you, you're golden. Go find a team. I'm sure the community could find or invent tools to make this easier on everyone, while keeping the game world itself decentralized.

Essentially, a central server would deliver a larger amount of convenience for a larger amount of risk: In return for never having to organize a team over instant messenger, VOIP, Steam or some other method for you or your friends private server, you would be agreeing to paint a huge target on your forehead; on all of our foreheads.

Before you decide that such a risk is worth the convenience--not just speaking for yourself, but for all of us who may not relish the thought of having the game taken away a second time--please don't kid yourself that a central City of Heroes server would ever see peak numbers like the good old days anyway. Some of the damage that NCSoft dealt is permanent. Those good old days are gone for good. I started tinkering with private servers (for personal use) over a decade ago, and it has introduced me to many emulator communities along the way, and I know what I'm talking about. A few hundred concurrent users at peak hours would be the proportional equivalent of Freedom. One day (when a central server is worth the risk hopefully) you'll learn to be happy about it. You'll learn to be happy with 200 concurrent players--at peak time, maybe. Don't get too many stars in your eyes. You'll only be disappointed.

I would be totally willing to use instant messaging tools or a private forum to organize teams on someone's server. I'd even be willing to throw a dedicated server box together and tell my friends about it and some of their friends. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I would be totally willing to use The Sentinel+ Extractor method (if there was a tool available for private server operators) to make sure my friends were playing with current versions of characters from their own private servers, and I'd even be willing to give them whatever resources they lost in the transfer, provided screenshots or heck, maybe just a typed list (bit of "honor system" here, but that's just how I'd do it). I guess that's not much different, actually, than the way people use the same character across multiple campaigns and gaming groups in pen and paper role-playing games.

What I would not be willing to do is leave it running when I'm out of town, create a publicly accessible website about it, announce it to the entire world, rack up thousands of dollars in "server donations".

Yes, I'd be willing to give up, for a while at least, a 100% central and persistent world in order to ensure our game's absolute safety.

Frankly, I think there's a degree of selfishness implicit in asking all of us to take an unnecessary risk alongside you, and play on a central server with you, so that you don't have to put as much effort into organizing a team for yourself.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 12:43:03 AM by Captain Electric »

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
I was wrong about not having anything else to add.  :P

You all shouldn't see a local server as a solo server, and nothing in the OP even brings up the idea of "solo servers". The idea that you could solo on your private server if you wanted to is a given, but the idea that you could solo on Freedom at peak hours was also a given. Basically, nothing's changed in that sense. If you have an Internet connection and can invite people to come play with you, you're golden. Go find a team. I'm sure the community could find or invent tools to make this easier on everyone, while keeping the game world itself decentralized.

Essentially, a central server would deliver a larger amount of convenience for a larger amount of risk: In return for never having to organize a team over instant messenger, VOIP, Steam or some other method for you or your friends private server, you would be agreeing to paint a huge target on your forehead; on all of our foreheads.

Before you decide that such a risk is worth the convenience--not just speaking for yourself, but for all of us who may not relish the thought of having the game taken away a second time--please don't kid yourself that a central City of Heroes server would ever see peak numbers like the good old days anyway. Some of the damage that NCSoft dealt is permanent. Those good old days are gone for good. I started tinkering with private servers (for personal use) over a decade ago, and it has introduced me to many emulator communities along the way, and I know what I'm talking about. A few hundred concurrent users at peak hours would be the proportional equivalent of Freedom. Learn to be happy about it. Learn to be happy with 200 concurrent players. Don't get too many stars in your eyes. You'll only be disappointed.

I would be totally willing to use instant messaging tools or a private forum to organize teams on someone's server. I'd even be willing to throw a dedicated server box together and tell my friends about it and some of their friends. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I would be totally willing to use The Sentinel+ Extractor method (if there was a tool available for private server operators) to make sure my friends were playing with current versions of characters from their own private servers, and I'd even be willing to give them whatever resources they lost in the transfer, provided screenshots or heck, maybe just a typed list (bit of "honor system" here, but that's just how I'd do it). I guess that's not much different, actually, than the way people use the same character across multiple campaigns and gaming groups in pen and paper role-playing games.

What I would not be willing to do is leave it running when I'm out of town, create a publicly accessible website about it, announce it to the entire world, rack up thousands of dollars in "server donations".

Yes, I'd be willing to give up, for a while at least, a 100% central and persistent world in order to ensure our game's absolute safety.

Frankly, I think there's a degree of selfishness implicit in asking all of us to take an unnecessary risk alongside you, and play on a central server with you, so that you don't have to put as much effort into organizing a team for yourself.

Aint we already kind of announced to the entire world about it? SEGS :p

All kidding aside, yeah the teaming and low numbers, but was wondering if the stuff will still be team gated or be a way to ungate it. Even if using instant messager with a pool of possible 200 and assuming you manage to get ahold of their contact and then assuming you do assuming they are available at that time, it sounds like the days in the exact way that COX was when it kicked bucket, the days of incarnate trials, most TFS, Trials, and anything gated for a team is over and there for decoration unless ya happen to be a social media maven.

Captain Electric

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 674
  • Crime doesn't pay, evildoers!
    • CoH Faces Profile
Not necessarily Jaguar. But you made me think.

Maybe the best scenario is one that gives players a choice. Just like Paragon Studios liked to do for us. Give us our choices.

I still think that's the scenario in the OP.

The way I figure it, for every several people like me, there'd be at least one person who set up a 99% persistent box or server rental, flung open its doors to say, "COME GET YOUR PERSISTENT SERVER, RIGHT HERE. COME GET YOUR INCARNATE TRIALS."

That would happen. I guarantee you it would happen. Eventually (like happens), people would converge onto the server(s) that had the best management. I'd even go make characters on a server like that (or transfer my characters to them if it were allowed).

But my main character copies would reside locally or at least on a smaller-scale, invite-only persistent server, where I'd know they were safe. For the immediate future, given NCSoft's (at best) unpredictability with regards to c&d's, that's the safe route. The underground route.

Plus, the big public servers would do people like me a huge favor. They'd ensure my underground server's peon status.

And not only would it take the heat off smaller servers, it would take some of the scent off the people coding the server. I absolutely don't think the people coding the server should be the ones operating it publicly. NCSoft is not our cute and cuddly friend.  :P
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 12:33:03 AM by Captain Electric »

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Not necessarily Jaguar. But you made me think.

Maybe the best scenario is one that gives players a choice. Just like Paragon Studios liked to do for us. Give us our choices.

I still think that's the scenario in the OP.

The way I figure it, for every several people like me, there'd be at least one person who set up a 99% persistent box or server rental, flung open its doors to say, "COME GET YOUR PERSISTENT SERVER, RIGHT HERE. COME GET YOUR INCARNATE TRIALS."

That would happen. I guarantee you it would happen. Eventually (like happens), people would converge onto the server(s) that had the best management. I'd even go make characters on a server like that (or transfer my characters to them if it were allowed).

But my main character copies would reside locally or at least on a smaller-scale, invite-only persistent server, where I'd know they were safe. For the immediate future, given NCSoft's (at best) unpredictability with regards to c&d's, that's the safe route. The underground route.

Plus, the big public servers would do people like me a huge favor. They'd ensure my underground server's peon status.

And not only would it take the heat off smaller servers, it would take some of the scent off the people coding the server. I absolutely don't think the people coding the server should be the ones operating it publicly. NCSoft is not our cute and cuddly friend.  :P

Yea. Ncsoft is unpreciatable. Looking at the list of private servers are games that are mostly still around they havent bothered or at least publically went after but the ones they did go after were ones they shut down, each one they shut down they seemed to C&D known private servers. Usually many game companies do it the other way around, not care for private server of closed games much but will tag private servers of games that are still in operation especially if they feel their pockets are getting light.

But You're right, best to do it in a manner where we are not saying "Look at me look at me. I got a private server. Dare you to do something." to NCsoft. Because they just might and remember they dotn have to win. they just git to bury a few people in so much legal fees that they cant afford to buy a pack of ramen noodles.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 02:27:43 AM by JaguarX »

Phaetan

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 250
Honestly, I'd be quite content running solo.  Or even setting up a private one for Taci and myself to use and not have the four digit ping times to the rest of the internet.

Mostly, though, I want to run around walloping dim criminals with my favorite characters...

Captain Electric

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 674
  • Crime doesn't pay, evildoers!
    • CoH Faces Profile
But You're right, best to do it in a manner where we are not saying "Look at me look at me. I got a private server. Dare you to do something." to NCsoft. Because they just might and remember they dotn have to win. they just git to bury a few people in so much legal fees that they cant afford to buy a pack of ramen noodles.

Well yeah, but judging from some responses here, that is exactly what some people plan on doing or would like others to do on their behalf.

All I'm asking [practically begging] for is the opportunity to have the game back in some form, without having to get near that situation with a ten-foot pole. And judging from some other responses here and in previous threads since the shutdown, I'm faaarrrrrr from the only one.

It would be cool to just be able to get on my Steam friends list and message some pals, "Yo, my server's up. Wanna fight some crime?" After the last several months, I'd settle for that, and I'd feel a lot more confident about the inherently minuscule risk!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 02:09:18 AM by Captain Electric »

JanessaVR

  • New Efforts # 12,000!
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 815
It would be cool to just be able to get on my Steam friends list and message some pals, "Yo, my server's up. Wanna fight some crime?" After the last several months, I'd settle for that, and I'd feel a lot more confident about the inherently minuscule risk!
I was thinking more of the same - quietly hosting an unlabeled private CoH server somewhere, and looking up friends from the game to issue them private invitations.  Of course, if we could find someplace to host it (outside the U.S.), a central server would be nice, too.  And I'd pay them a monthly subscription fee, too.  If we're changing everything to be lawsuit-proof, what not?  And I think they deserve some $ for their efforts.

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
I was thinking more of the same - quietly hosting an unlabeled private CoH server somewhere, and looking up friends from the game to issue them private invitations.  Of course, if we could find someplace to host it (outside the U.S.), a central server would be nice, too.  And I'd pay them a monthly subscription fee, too.  If we're changing everything to be lawsuit-proof, what not?  And I think they deserve some $ for their efforts.
Yup but have to be careful with the money part as that can be the gift drop to proof of running private server for profit if going to the private server owner and not careful about it. Or if ya talking about money going to NCSoft that is basically advertising "Looks at me look at me. I have a private server."

If someone steals your car, and send you $150 in the mail every month that doesnt nullify the fact that they stole ya car does it. If that guy get caught and said the car is his now because he pay you $150 a month, it probably wouldnt fly. In fact it probably make it easier to catch em if he did send you money a month. Unless ya agree that although they stole the car and since they are paying you, they have claim to it now. Well hell then, I better get busy stealing stuff and as long as I send them check I'm not breaking a law. I seen this TV I liked I think I might go and steal it. I think I'll send them $400. That should cover it. :p

JanessaVR

  • New Efforts # 12,000!
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 815
If someone steals your car, and send you $150 in the mail every month that doesnt nullify the fact that they stole ya car does it. If that guy get caught and said the car is his now because he pay you $150 a month, it probably wouldnt fly. In fact it probably make it easier to catch em if he did send you money a month. Unless ya agree that although they stole the car and since they are paying you, they have claim to it now. Well hell then, I better get busy stealing stuff and as long as I send them check I'm not breaking a law. I seen this TV I liked I think I might go and steal it. I think I'll send them $400. That should cover it. :p
Bad example.  The whole idea is, after having scrubbed all direct CoH references out, it's not legally considered stealing (still won't stop NCSoft from filing a suit in court, but that's another issue).  Of course, if there's an interface to rename certain groups and people on your PC, such that the officially-named "Demon Worshippers" street gang on the community server shows up as the "Hellions" gang on your PC, based on a locally-stored .txt file that essentially provides a translation guide for "If A, show B on the screen," well then, that's not something the community server's administrators can be expected to control, or be legally liable for, now is it?   ;)

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Bad example.  The whole idea is, after having scrubbed all direct CoH references out, it's not legally considered stealing (still won't stop NCSoft from filing a suit in court, but that's another issue).  Of course, if there's an interface to rename certain groups and people on your PC, such that the officially-named "Demon Worshippers" street gang on the community server shows up as the "Hellions" gang on your PC, based on a locally-stored .txt file that essentially provides a translation guide for "If A, show B on the screen," well then, that's not something the community server's administrators can be expected to control, or be legally liable for, now is it?   ;)
No, good example.

You just made my point that I was getting at.

Of course if no COX reference and it's new stuff and no COX NCSOFT owned stuff of course it aint stealing.

If to the private server, no matter what NCSoft might try something and thus dont give them any leverage like looking like it's for profit if their stuff will be used. but if none of their stuff wont be used and it's dead certain it's absoulutely legal, then what is with the hiding as if the knowledge of doing something illegal is going on? Aka, dont give them anything to bite on. If they choose to try something let it be empty attempt and let them do the work in trying to find something instead of just handing it to them with a red bow and gift wrapping.




Illusionss

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 690
To be absolutely honest, I out of respect for the Devs believe the community would have reacted to a private server with merciless attacks. This is my personal thoughts on it. I think we would have beaten it into small stains and rinsed the stains away with the tears of those who had dared to try it.

Agree with this assessment.

Quote
Now however, I think with dawning recognition that the game is dead and buried as far as NCSoft cares, it is no disrespect to our Devs and in fact it cheapens all their hard work to have it expunged from the face of the earth.

Its so great, that we cannot let it go gently into that good night - not even if we have to log into Atlas and fly around a zone empty of life except for us, and some bits of trash blowing in the wind.

Now that is a good game.

Little David

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 149
    • The Ad Ultimum Network
If they are not suing to shut down private servers of games they have running now, I am not sure why a private server of a defunct game would matter.

Ask the Tabula Rasa player base.

NCSoft has been adamant about quashing attempts by the TR players to revive their game through server emulation. Infinite Rasa was the most prominsing project, and it got quashed by a cease and desist order.

Ironwolf

  • Stubborn as a
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,503
I would say the Tabula Rasa game is an exception. The lawsuits with Richard Garrett and all the other issues, I think they were left with no choice.

Kistulot

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • Argentum Weritas Est!
I think an important thing to note though...

As one of the people just crossing my fingers unable to really offer my time or expertise to the project (too much of the former, too little of the later) which may or may not be progressing, I feel its important that we temper any desires with "But hey, you're the one(s) putting in the hard time, whatever you do that you feel is best for the game that's cool. Just chippin' in a few two cents."

I imagine I am not in the minority with this either, but I don't want to speak for anyone. So for you brave souls out there chippin' away at code, we totally trust you to do what you think is best and not endanger the future of CoH efforts - and any calls to caution or otherwise are just us trying to be helpful in any way we can because it kills us to be sittin around not able to help.

edit: one(s) originally used square brackets as one would use for various corrections... places where HTML kicking in would not be an issue. Ugh. Derp on my part, sorry.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 09:42:07 PM by Kistulot »
Woo! - Argent Girl

TimtheEnchanter

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,466
  • There are some who call me... Tim?
Out of curiosity, is anyone in any of the SWG emu communities? Curious as to what's been going through their heads now that Lucas (who supported fan projects to the max as long as they were non-profit) has handed Star Wars over to Disney (one of the most paranoid copyright owners in the world).

Illusionss

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 690
Sorry, if anyone stole a car it was NCSoft stealing MY car. They took my car, that I PAID FOR.

I have no qualms whatsoever in hiring a repo man to get me my car BACK. Its my car and I want to drive it, not see it rusting away behind a padlocked fence for no reason.


JanessaVR

  • New Efforts # 12,000!
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 815
Sorry, if anyone stole a car it was NCSoft stealing MY car. They took my car, that I PAID FOR.

I have no qualms whatsoever in hiring a repo man to get me my car BACK. Its my car and I want to drive it, not see it rusting away behind a padlocked fence for no reason.
I rather concur.  After the multiple thousands of $s I spent on CoH, I want my game back, too.

Mazz vs The World

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 79
I know legally NC$oft had the right to close the game and all that jazz. BUT has anyone ever thought of getting a bunch of the community together and suing NC$OFT for the rights to play the game independently?? I don't see why we couldn't do this. I mean we would lose most likely but it could help us at the same time?? Pain is gain right or something like that. Just an idea don't kill me for suggesting it!  ;D

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
I know legally NC$oft had the right to close the game and all that jazz. BUT has anyone ever thought of getting a bunch of the community together and suing NC$OFT for the rights to play the game independently?? I don't see why we couldn't do this. I mean we would lose most likely but it could help us at the same time?? Pain is gain right or something like that. Just an idea don't kill me for suggesting it!  ;D

Well from the looks of it, since NCSoft "stole", it should be shut and closed case of automatic win. :p There should be lawyers jumping through hoops to get a piece of this easy case.

First though, to do this seriously we probably have to figure what rights we actually have. I mean ACTUAL RIGHTS. Not rights think deserving because we paid a monthly subscription.

Then we have to figure out in the suit of why should they be force to relinquish use of their property. Just because you rent a car even for months and the rental company decides they no longer want to rent that particular model and decides to not renew the rental contract doesnt mean the person that rented the vehicle have automatic life time use rights to it even if they rented for 3-6 months and put gas in it.

Lastly, to pull it off, have to look at it from a legal standpoint and not "I played a game for years and they took it, and I want it back so I'm suing them because I want to play the game." I think like from some angle like, what about the useless disks they sold that is now useless, but they could counter that the consumer was warned and agreed to that they could shut down the game any time and only owned the rights to the stuff that is on that disk and not life time access. But then, how would player made access to a disk, which the player own, making it useful again, be harmful to NCSoft in damages since the player made access is not ncsoft thus player made server is nothing but making use of player owned property, as long as the ncsoft code IP or Trademarks and copyright stuff is used. And given that players own that disk and stuff that is on that hard copy and files, shouldnt they have the right to find a use for it, a property that they bought and now own? And that means, unless there is trademark, IP, or code use violation, then ncsoft should nto be allowed to shut down private servers given that since the game is now defunct, there is no money loss for NCSoft, and it's not using anything on their end or using up their resources but merely using what the player actually bought and making use of that investment and since the player owns that disk, should a corporation have a right to limit that use anymore than player have a right to limit ncsoft the use of their servers? If ncsoft can shut down their servers for the product a server they own rightfully, that should keyword should mean players should be able to use the product they own for as long as they wish as long as it doesnt violate ncsoft copyright, IP, trademark or rights to the code.

But yet since they didnt seem to have tried to shut down a private server yet for COX, how can we sue them for those rights since they havent made a move? Unless we set up a dummy one and provoke them into action and then use that as a springboard to sue for the right to operate the private server.

Bonus tip-And definately in the court of law dont want to come off as a bunch of gamers that is merely pissed because they took the game. Remember, many people cant relate and already have stigma that gamers will rally to play a game, rally when they lose a game, but ignore real world problems around them because their entire life revolve around games instead of something "productive". And probably best to get a jurisdiction that is already irked at corporations. And of course dont want to appear to be friv. lawsuit and definately dont want to lose and get counter sued.


Remember they lost the Garrot thing but remember Garrot wasnt exactly a run of them ill average income or average asset kind of guy so he could afford the best and not to mention it was clear and even that took a hot minute. If we are going to pursue this have to go in proper and leave the emotion blur at the door. Lawsuits is one of those times where ya have to be on the A-game as I dont think many judges or juries will be or can sypasize with a person shedding tears over a game. As much as they sypasize wit ha drug addict suing their dealer because the dealer wont supply them anymore with drugs. They might take it as "Geesh, I think I'm sentencing you to see a psychologist." Rememer make it appear it's more than about the game and something larger that most people can relate to. If going community route, then best believe we have to come off as a community here and out there because if go that route I'm sure NCSoft lawyers will try to poke holes i nthat theory and wouldnt be surprised if they showed up with old forum posts, posts on Massively, to paint it as a witch hunt because the community is angry because of the shut down of their game and didnt give a crap about the other games they shut down and only cared abotu the game and was content even as other games were shutting down around them to play and not say a word but angry when it was their game. And of course have to explain away logically LOGICALLY, why was the EULA agreed to, where it states they can shut down game any moment and when they did, why problem now and not the lawsuit earlier? Maybe no indication of COX was in financial/(whatever the case was) in trouble, the language was not stated in a clear concise manner, it didnt pop up with each log in, something to poke holes into that EULA.

Then if we are the ones that bring it we have to have good case to why should we get the right to play the game independently. I thin kthere are many reasons for that and maybe if anything, there sould be a settlement reached where they allow it without interference from them. But one thing could be a wild card is that Marvel lawsuit. It might be irrelevant or it might be the bane and the true reason why all of this is happening. If say some numb nut decides that since NCSoft isnt runnig the show and decides to build wolverine and marvel hears about it especialy since their own game is coming, who is responsible for that lawsuit from marvel? The private server owner that is runnign the game or NCsoft who created the game? If it's the private server then they better have either good enforcement or stack of money somewhere. If it's NCSoft, then well, there is no reason for them to be forced to give up the right to any of that game if they still will be legally responsible for that type of lawsuit.