Sunset Question

[Axonius]

When a game is shutdown the way CoX was, does anyone know what actions take place post shutdown?

Do we know if standard procedure is to keep all code for the purpose of "just in case"?? Or is there total server wipe and all data gone forever?

Just been really missing the game. Looking for some hope. Literally been pondering on how I could win the lottery to buy the game myself.

it is such a bad thing to not have a policy of publishing a solo instance in these circumstances. I know I would.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to post my rambling thoughts.

[NecrotechMaster]

they usually keep the code base around as proof of ownership, if they deleted everything and just went off copyright data then if someone stole the code but basically just reskinned everything to not infringe the copyright they wouldnt have any proof it was their code

[Tiberian Fiend]

Can't buy something from someone who's unwilling to sell.

[unladenswallow]

What are the odds they kept our account information?

[FatherXmas]

I would say zero.

[Quinch]

I'd hold out for fifty-fifty. Data storage is dirt cheap, and in-depth demographics and purchasing information is never a bad thing to have.

[JaguarX]

They probably kept the basic stuff, like number of people, where and or region, length of account by account number was open and how many day active (Maybe).

But specific information that would allow someone to up and just log back in with all data is probably not there. They might not even have it where the account number is linked with the name and card number anymore.  It's just "account number 3339444 active for 712 days, San Antonio Texas. Created on Nov. 2005 End on Nov. 2011. ". and that is possibly it.

While data storage is chea though, remember they still means that they have to protect it. Which can be pain in butt especially if not going to use it first place and that is why many places purge it when no longer useful. It would look silly to get sued for breach of personal information for customers that havent been there in years  when all the loss of millions over old data could have been prevented by just getting rid of it.


But some places keeep all the data for much longer period of time depending on what they are doing with it and also sometimes it's easier to keep it if accounts are shared for other forums and or games or for trackign movements between the games within the company. Like PWE set up. if they close a game they might keep the data as is because with one account you can go from STO forum to Champs forum to NW forum assuming ya have account with one or all (cant remember which) and I think ya keep the same basic screen name between at least those three. In that case they probably would keep the data just to prevent mass account problem and data loss affecting the other games.


Me, they can use it according to their written purposes. I'm not worried. But some is tight about their data and looking back, people are quick to call them paranoid but really it's called being safe. People worry about data only when shit it the fan when they should have been prior to it getting to that point. Guess it was smart using a psuedo, never using credit card only game cards purchased with cash, and never revealing their real name in their account, and using a some sort of proxy IP thing that I cant even get my provider to set up (but they have major money to do that) that points them in  the IP as being in various areas around the US,  and never using their real name nor posting any of their pics online. Andn o, they dont do any illegal activities or probably have nothing to hide but they just one of the few people on this planet it seems that care about privacy and keep track of their information and how it's being used. Those people are dying breed. Too many people post everything under the guise "OH I have nothign to hide." Then sobbing when ID theft hits them. While I feel for them and wish that dont happen, I cant help think "Well no shit. It was bound to happen. You put all your personal info everywhere saying you have nothing to hide and someone took you up on your word. And since you put your information all over the place you have no idea who did it or when or where."

Like this phone they gave me, I think it's Android. It points me in San Antonio and sometimes on some websites as being in Virginia when I havent stepped foot in either place. How do they do that?

[Sleepy Wonder]

It would be silly not to keep it.

All they would need to do is sanitize credit card and billing information (address, name).

The problem is they've removed CoH information from Master NCSoft accounts so its difficult to say if they have any link from the game data to which account it used to belong to for future use.

All a future party would need to restore data to prior customers would be something like the email on the account.

If NCSoft really wanted to be nice, in the event of a sale and if they did keep the data, is issue every previous CoH subscriber a special code that could be used to verify onesself with a new owner without giving the new owner any personal information.

Barring all of that, if all they have is the game database, a future owner might implement their own solution by having new subscribers have the option of claiming their old account via a temporary long-term support system that asks you questions like "What was your global?", "Name as many global friends as you can that you had on your friends list", "How many characters roughly did you have? What were their names and levels? What specific enhancement was slotted in X slot?"

It'd be a slow process, but certain things could be automated to provide a good chance of matching accounts with their real owners.

[JaguarX]

It would be silly not to keep it.

All they would need to do is sanitize credit card and billing information (address, name).

The problem is they've removed CoH information from Master NCSoft accounts so its difficult to say if they have any link from the game data to which account it used to belong to for future use.

All a future party would need to restore data to prior customers would be something like the email on the account.

If NCSoft really wanted to be nice, in the event of a sale and if they did keep the data, is issue every previous CoH subscriber a special code that could be used to verify onesself with a new owner without giving the new owner any personal information.

Barring all of that, if all they have is the game database, a future owner might implement their own solution by having new subscribers have the option of claiming their old account via a temporary long-term support system that asks you questions like "What was your global?", "Name as many global friends as you can that you had on your friends list", "How many characters roughly did you have? What were their names and levels? What specific enhancement was slotted in X slot?"

It'd be a slow process, but certain things could be automated to provide a good chance of matching accounts with their real owners.

Crap. If they ask just about any of those questions I'm screwed royally. New account for me. Most of my friends on global left in 2008-2009 era and its been gray ever since. Have no idea what was slotted or where. And only remember a few stand out characters name that I made. Many I have no clue what I named them especially if they didnt make it to level 25.

[saipaman]

If NCSoft really wanted to be nice...

Had NCSoft cared at all about the player base, they would have let the game run through the New Year.

[JaguarX]

Had NCSoft cared at all about the player base, they would have let the game run through the New Year.

yeah.

Unfortunately business and nice do not go hand in hand. It ought to, and should, but for some odd reason it's allowed to not be. Guess it's the way it set up to climb the ladder in corporate world. You have to be vicious and sometimes that meanss stabbing ya best friend since Kindergarten in the back for that VP spot. Hey, it's either you or him.

[LadyVamp]

I can tell you what happened.

They shutdown the servers as far as allowing anyone to login.  Then they made two or more backups on media that has some shelf life to it.  The specific media depends on any laws that specify how long they must keep the data.  The laws in question would be statutes of limitations for tort law since no criminal was broken by them shutting down the game.  Ever server regardless of its function was backed up this way including the game servers, the login servers (which appeared to be AD based from what I could tell), the websites, code repository servers, test servers.  Pretty much anything other than desktops which wouldn't be needed in theory.  Of course their business servers like the file servers, domain controllers, database servers, mail servers would also receive this treatment.

How do I know this?  I was last man standing for a company that did design work for power plants.  I got to do all that work then got to wipe/scrub and remove all equipment from the server room.  It was one of the most difficult things I ever did.  I worked there for five years.  The reason we did the very same thing was due to lawsuits from customers, employees, government entities even competitors.

Our accounts, bases, toons, etc. are likely sitting on tape in a vault waiting on the statutes of limitations to run out.  After that, it's off to an industrial shredder.

It is for that very reason I removed my toons about 1 month after the announcement.  I didn't want them to have my toons.  They do, however, live on in my private wiki as does the base I built for them and various parts of the city they fought in.  And I wrote their stories in there too including the withdraw from Paragon City.  It brings a tear to my eye writing this post but my toons live on in my mind and in my heart.  NCSoft took the city away but they can never take my toons away.  I need only close my eyes and I can see them fighting to save the city or role play in the base.  When I need a boost, I sit back and ask myself, "What would Flying Snow Mouse do?"

She'd dive head first into the battle and say, "You know, $target, take a bath and get a haircut and people wouldn't hassle you so much"  lol

[TonyV]

I can tell you what happened.

They shutdown the servers as far as allowing anyone to login.  Then they made two or more backups on media that has some shelf life to it.  The specific media depends on any laws that specify how long they must keep the data...

Our accounts, bases, toons, etc. are likely sitting on tape in a vault waiting on the statutes of limitations to run out.  After that, it's off to an industrial shredder.

I'm almost certain this is the correct answer.  For legal reasons, they wouldn't just delete the data.  Not to put too fine a point on it, if they're sued, they wouldn't want to be put in a position of the plaintiff having data and they don't have it.  After a certain amount of time, typically somewhere around seven years, having the data becomes a legal liability in that people could subpoena it, causing hardship on NCsoft to produce records that are years old.  The worst case scenario is if there is no data retention policy, NCsoft has some data that is years old, but not some key piece that is being subpoenaed for a trial.  In that case, courts can and have assumed that the data was deliberately destroyed, holding the defendant in contempt and charging them with things like obstruction of justice.

So to boil it down, the data will be kept in storage for some set period of time, then wiped clean.  (Though to be clear, it may be kept longer, but at least then if NCsoft doesn't produce it in response to a subpoena, unless a whistleblower blabs, they can simply deny the subpoena and produce their data retention policy as proof that the court should have no expectation that it hasn't been deleted.)

Truth be known, I'd be surprised if every single line of chat ever typed into the game, every single character ever created and deleted, isn't sitting on backup tapes on a shelf somewhere collecting dust.  Storage is cheap, and like I said, if you've got someone suing you saying, "Such-and-such a GM told me X," you're damn well going to want the logs so that no judge or jury will see you say, "We can neither confirm nor deny that allegation."

[Olde Glory]

Sooo... keep playing the lottery and hope for the best!

[dwturducken]

I believe some legal type said somewhere that the reverse of what Tony said also holds true. A company would keep the proof of ownership of an IP in case they need to sue someone for copyright infringement.

[JaguarX]

I believe some legal type said somewhere that the reverse of what Tony said also holds true. A company would keep the proof of ownership of an IP in case they need to sue someone for copyright infringement.

yeah.

[MindBlender]

If NCSoft ever had the slightest thought that one day they might sell the IP...it is worth a bit more if the player base has their information intact.  Or am I off base here?  Anyone buying the game would have an instant small player base if we could just hop on our old toons and go.

[unladenswallow]

If NCSoft ever had the slightest thought that one day they might sell the IP...it is worth a bit more if the player base has their information intact.  Or am I off base here?  Anyone buying the game would have an instant small player base if we could just hop on our old toons and go.

That was my line of thought as well.

[saipaman]

If NCSoft ever had the slightest thought that one day they might sell the IP...it is worth a bit more if the player base has their information intact.  Or am I off base here?  Anyone buying the game would have an instant small player base if we could just hop on our old toons and go.

It might be worth a bit more but that value declines every day.  Not to be deliberately morbid, but I'm sure that since the server shutdown at least one player has died.  Probably many players have died. 

[Cobra Man]

It might be worth a bit more but that value declines every day.  Not to be deliberately morbid, but I'm sure that since the server shutdown at least one player has died.  Probably many players have died.

You're (sadly) absolutely correct.

Probably the most annoying thing here is the lack of vision or just basic business sense from NCsoft.

We're currently slap bang in the middle of the a massive global upsurge in interest of the superhero genre - and they go and cancel the bloody game.

A company with even a little bit of business acumen would have marketed/advertised our game to the max. Sadly business acumen and NCsoft don't seem to words that sit well together