Jack Emmert re: CoH - "Tell NCsoft to call me"

[emu265]

There was a time this would've been the worst news ever. Now, it's the best news ever. Funny how times change.

Amen to that.

All right, so I will admit that I came after ED (a couple weeks after it went live, actually).  I was 14 and as naive as they come at the time.  I even remember reading an outdated guide about 6-slotting Hasten, which I followed to a tea and was never the wiser until long after IOs hit the streets. 

However, I loved City of Heroes immediately.  And I loved it when it went dark.  I believe Jack most definitely has a role in both those iterations of the game.  And I have no problems dealing with him (if he's as bad as people say) if we can just have our game back.  Yes, I would be afraid of the future of the game with him in charge... but if it's not him, then there is no future.  Period.  At least.... as far as I can see.  My hope has been a little south of where it should be lately.

[Tannim222]

Here's the thing with ED. First, it was a player that came up with the idea seeing how the at the time enhancement system left little room for character improvement. At the same time the devs were in the early stages of the IO system. They knew the same thing, there was little room to work with for improving characters. Some of the things players could do in the post ed and inventions system were amazing. Imagine what wouldn've been happening in a pre-ed system with inventions.

And yes Jack wasn't good at math, but I think even worse was Gecko and he designed powers. If anything I had more negative interactions with him than I did Jack. What's often forgotten is Jack's contribution to the Lore of CoH. He had a large part in helping build the Lore Bible, all those Greek references - that's him.

[Surelle]

Has anyone gone onto the CO Forums or STO forums and posted about Jack's comments in an effort to get him to respond, or has anyone PM'd him through those same forums?

I could use my CO login to get into the forums (I played for about a week back at launch) but I wasn't allowed to post.  Do you have to be a subscriber to post?  Is anyone here paying for STO or CO that could ask Jack about his comments in this PAX East panel http://da.twitch.tv/pax/b/380836937 at around 7:14 concerning how serious he was about potentially buying CoH back?

He didn't seem too serious to me and I'm not holding my breath here (it seemed more a passing joke than a serious comment on that panel), but we won't know more unless we ask.  And we should do it before it gets too far into the future and he can't even remember what was said at PAX East anymore....

[emperorsteele]

The whole Pre-ED thing always seemed a bit weird to me. Like they never actually tested their game. I mean, look at the powers and enhancement system:

Every power can have six slots.

You can put an enhancement in each slot for 33% of the power's original value.

6*33% = roughly a 200% mark-up.

So did the devs never actually, you know, six-slot all their character's powers and actually try to find out how durable or powerful they were or weren't? I mean, a power with 20% defense is going to have give 60% defense just from 6-slotting it. And that's ONE power!

Did no one in alpha or beta point any of this out? Sheesh.

As for the STO forums, I'll check it out.

[emu265]

The whole Pre-ED thing always seemed a bit weird to me. Like they never actually tested their game. I mean, look at the powers and enhancement system:

Every power can have six slots.

You can put an enhancement in each slot for 33% of the power's original value.

6*33% = roughly a 200% mark-up.

So did the devs never actually, you know, six-slot all their character's powers and actually try to find out how durable or powerful they were or weren't? I mean, a power with 20% defense is going to have give 60% defense just from 6-slotting it. And that's ONE power!

Did no one in alpha or beta point any of this out? Sheesh.

As for the STO forums, I'll check it out.

*Derailment alert*
I personally have no desire to play the game without ED.  Seems dumb, actually.  I believe the issue was that it came across as a global nerf (because it was) with nothing to balance it.  Had it come with IOs (as someone mentioned) it would have been a very different story... and perhaps Jack's reputation wouldn't be quite as severe... not that I mean to invalidate others' apparent negative impressions.

[golemjoe]

*Derailment alert*
I personally have no desire to play the game without ED.  Seems dumb, actually.  I believe the issue was that it came across as a global nerf (because it was) with nothing to balance it.  Had it come with IOs (as someone mentioned) it would have been a very different story... and perhaps Jack's reputation wouldn't be quite as severe... not that I mean to invalidate others' apparent negative impressions.

Would be amusing if Jack helped bring CoH back.  As far as ED is concerned, it had a lot to do with communication.  Jack came across as having a huge ego and a lack of vision.  The IO system being in the works is important but if you aren't clear with your playerbase, it's going to generate a lot of anst.

[Empyrean]

I dunno.  I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like Jack is just, well, bad. 

I've been over at CO with some of the others, and all of the patterns that I remember from the pre-Posi days and all of the criticisms that he typically receives from CoXers are there as plain as day and in spades.  Doesn't listen, doesn't respond, doesn't want to hear, doesn't seem to care.  I'd almost prefer animosity over the lack of giving a rat's ass that is going on over there.  At least that would be something.

I'd be afraid that Jack would bring CoX back about like the Pet Cemetery brought back that guy's kid and wife.

[Coulomb]

Count me in as someone who'd be thrilled if Cryptic got the game back - even if it was run in maintenance mode.

For what it's worth Jack is most certainly *not* before my time with CoH (what with me being with the game since launch).  I'll be honest, I liked the direction Posi et al took the game a look more than Jack's vision, but that doesn't mean I hated Jack's vision.  Just thought it was less fun.

For that matter, I didn't necessarily *disagree* with his decisions.  In most cases I simply didn't like the degree to which they were applied.  But that's not for here.  Like others have stated, I was never on the 'I hate Jack' train.  He gave us the game in the first place, and if he can give it back to us, I'll be very grateful for it.

[Ironwolf]

I am not exaggerating when I say that Jack honestly had no idea how the players actually - played the game in CoH.

His perfect example was his illustration on tanking. Now please recall no one had higher resistance/defense + hit points than a tank. His idea was to not taunt the Boss because the boss could hurt him more - but instead taunt the minions and pull them backwards from the main group. However in almost every case it is better to leap OVER the group taunting and turn the cone AoE's away from your team and absorb the Alpha strike then letting your team cut loose in safety.

On occasion I believe I played with him on his personal account. We were discussing the game after running a few duo missions, he found out I had been there since day one and he said he was there since Beta. We discussed some of the changes to the game and the direction it took. I mentioned the ED player massacre and 4 part harmony with 25 8x10 color glossies. He proceeded to try and spin it into some weird way that let me see that I was indeed talking to Jack.

I just let the facts speak for me, I was a co-founder of an SG with 50 members back when 75 was the cap. We were Sin on Champion and our alts were in Sinful (yes terrible pun Sin Full). But within a month of the ED nerf we were down to 12 players left. The reason wasn't the nerf - it was the god-awful way it was given to the players. After I mentioned this the person I believed was Jack - signed off.

[dwturducken]

Has anyone gone onto the CO Forums or STO forums and posted about Jack's comments in an effort to get him to respond, or has anyone PM'd him through those same forums?

It is being discussed on the CO forums. The thread isn't very long, and the reactions are mixed, at this point, but nothing overwhelmingly negative.

[Sugoi]

If Jack gets the game back from NCSoft, does that mean that Statesman will be revived from the dead as well? (grin)  Seems quite in keeping with the genre.

I had no personal gripes against the man, after all, it was his game to begin with, and those who chose to leave, left. I hated what ED did to my builds, but adjusted to fit the new reality.

As a matter of fact, I had quite a bit of respect for the team who beat the late 90's early 00's SuperHero game curse, after so many failed attempts to get a decent game out.

Heh, looking at the Wikipedia entry for City of Heroes, I just had to laugh at this:
"Computer Gaming World hailed the game saying "City of Heroes blows a super powered gust of fresh air into an increasingly stale sword-and-sorcery MMO world" in August 2004."

Has the air in the MMO world gotten any fresher since then?  I don't think so.

Besides, if the Emmert CoH revival becomes a PW-style P2W money pit, well, there are groups who are working on alternatives, and I will take advantage of them ASAP.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Has anyone gone onto the CO Forums or STO forums and posted about Jack's comments in an effort to get him to respond, or has anyone PM'd him through those same forums?

Is there any chance we can send him something? Either make an image or a video? Maybe even a piece of physical mail? Ideally I'd want to get something to him that has an army of signatures on it from enthused players, but I don't know if there's any secure way of making that work without having to worry about ID-thieving.

[Lightslinger]

My idea: a post card everyone could print and send to Cryptic. The postcard would prominently feature Statesman's logo with the text "We need a hero. Bring CoH home, Jack."

At the same time another round of cards go to NCsoft "Rebuild City of Heroes with Cryptic Studios, Call Jack!"

[Victoria Victrix]

It's very easy to make a throw-away comment that you know will generate a lot of free goodwill on a panel.

It's even easier to make that comment when your own inside information has informed you that NCSoft has absolutely no intention of selling to you.

Color me extremely skeptical. 

[dwturducken]

I'm not disagreeing, and a healthy skepticism is certainly called for, especially here.

However!

One thing that has struck me as this has unfolded, both on this board and on the CO board, is that, in all of the interviews I've seen of him in the past month, if he references prior games, CoH gets a mention. It hasn't always been positive, but I don't recall any mention of CO. It's not making me giddy, or anything, but I'm watching more closely.

[TimtheEnchanter]

It's very easy to make a throw-away comment that you know will generate a lot of free goodwill on a panel.

It's even easier to make that comment when your own inside information has informed you that NCSoft has absolutely no intention of selling to you.

Color me extremely skeptical.

It still makes for an interesting statement though. I'm pretty pessimistic, but even if he's not serious, there's a bit of a, "NCsoft, I triple-dog dare you", vibe to it. Regardless of his seriousness in wanting to buy CoH (if that's even what the comment was about), it sort of acknowledges the buzz that NCsoft ignored any and all attempts to buy, without risking any type of legal action. And to have that on a public stage from a professional source is a pretty intriguing event.

[JWBullfrog]

It still makes for an interesting statement though. I'm pretty pessimistic, but even if he's not serious, there's a bit of a, "NCsoft, I triple-dog dare you", vibe to it. Regardless of his seriousness in wanting to buy CoH (if that's even what the comment was about), it sort of acknowledges the buzz that NCsoft ignored any and all attempts to buy, without risking any type of legal action. And to have that on a public stage from a professional source is a pretty intriguing event.

And if said comment could further damage NCSoft and drive people away to another game publisher.... PWE perhaps... then there could be interesting politics there.
 
But, at this point, I remind folks about straws and the advisability of grasping them. If it brings my game back, I'll take whatever and whoever I can get.

[Lightslinger]

It's very easy to make a throw-away comment that you know will generate a lot of free goodwill on a panel.

It's even easier to make that comment when your own inside information has informed you that NCSoft has absolutely no intention of selling to you.

Color me extremely skeptical.

There's not a single thing about the current Save CoH that doesn't deserve extreme skepticism:

-Plan Z: An army of barely experienced volunteers are attempting to build and fund a triple A MMO in their free time.
-Reverse Engineering: Voluteer coders are attempting to rebuild a code base that even the CoH pros barely knew how to manipulate.
-TF Hail Mary: An attempt to sell something we don't own and the owner doesn't want to sell to companies who most likely don't want to buy it.

I'm not being negative, I support each of those initiatives and the workers in the trenches know the trials they have to overcome better than I do.

This lead is as good as anything we've heard yet. Even if this was an off collar joke, why not pursue it?

[MakoMako]

It still makes for an interesting statement though. I'm pretty pessimistic, but even if he's not serious, there's a bit of a, "NCsoft, I triple-dog dare you", vibe to it. Regardless of his seriousness in wanting to buy CoH (if that's even what the comment was about), it sort of acknowledges the buzz that NCsoft ignored any and all attempts to buy, without risking any type of legal action. And to have that on a public stage from a professional source is a pretty intriguing event.

Exactly what I was thinking.

NCSoft has come right out and claimed they "exhausted" attempts to sell the IP. Now we have it on video in a public event that an offer is being made. If nothing comes of this, just what do they have to fall back on? We no longer have to rely on the unreliable "Inside source" excuse anymore.

I mean no offense to Mercedes' skeptical post there... (In fact, it's actually an extremely good idea to be skeptical right now) But since the shut down of CoH, I've seen many many many references from profile names here that claim to have reliable 'inside sources' that cannot be named nor explained. And while nothing has ever been disproven regarding this information, I believe I stood up and questioned a -very- strange bit of information that came from an 'inside source' not long ago, and it was pretty much written off as "It came from an inside source so we can't explain it further" and not elaborated upon beyond that.

Color -me- skeptical all around. But I see nothing but good coming from that comment alone. Even if Jack Emmert knows damned well that NCSoft has no intention of selling (through inside sources he, nor anyone else, is allowed to talk about) the fact is this is actively recording someone putting NCSoft on the spot, and many people heard this challenge.

If NCSoft doesn't sell, they -can't- rely on the excuse that they didn't try. We now have public video evidence to the contrary.

[dwturducken]

Just to be clear, I probably not as pessimistic as VV, but I'm definitely not about to jump up and say she's being a buzzkill. The statement in such a public forum is worth a few pages of discussion. Hopefully, it's worth a few "column inches" of virtual ink.

The other thing to consider is the general tone of the discussion around Jack's comment. Even the guy currently working for NCSoft was showing love. The whole 5 minutes of discussion is buzz-worthy. Even if nothing comes of Jack's off-hand comment, directly, it can't hurt the Hail Mary efforts. For people to still be discussion the closure in major venues has to work in our favor.