I think at this point people want to play city of heroes so badly that we don't care who is running the game. As long as it's still playable.
PWE is a publisher. Cryptic is a studio.
NCSoft is a publisher. Paragon Studios was a studio.
Both of those publishers have some of their own in-house titles.
I hear Cryptic also has a lot more autonomy than Paragon Studios had.
... Witchcraft and Pocket D Warwitch wrestle around some in Jello!
If it did go ahead, I would be pushing strongly for Statesman to also get on the resurrection train.
btw is there a video of him saying for ncsoft to call him?
Again, did anyone get this on video or audio? :)
Witchcraft and Pocket D Warwitch wrestle around some!
I dont get the idea this person is speaking seriously. Nor do I see one company being willing to run BOTH CO and CoX.
This would truly be a devil's bargain. We'd have the game back, with some reeeeaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyy unpleasant baggage: a guy who is proven very uncaring - even hostile - to/of his playerbase.
I will wait till we have a lot more information before one iota of hope is raised over here. If he were really serious, HE'D call NCS. Which I would not bet a dollar on him doing.
Maybe a nudge and a bit of support from the CoH players could convince Cryptic to get a little more serious about CoH with NCsoft. Who knows, seems to me its one of the best shots we've had yet.
Well, but then enter ED and then a tidal-wave of player-hatred that swept a lot of people out of the game.
Things always seemed to run more smoothly after he left. Many of my favorite features came about after he left.
-Edit the video - We need a youtube clip of the PAX panel, the specific part where they discussed no MMO should die, CoH was a great game, and finally Jack saying "Tell NCsoft to pick up the phone, I'm there." Some slick subtitles and we could spread that video around.All set to the tune of Call Me Maybe. *rimshot*
I would instantly become a Jack Emmert fanboy and give him buckets of money.
For the record, I was never on the Jack hate train either. I've defended him and the decisions he made in running the game many times. Laypeople have little to no idea how hard it really is to design and run a fun and engaging game, one that has to be designed to last for years, probably over a decade or more if you're lucky, as well as the technical skill to actually execute on that plan successfully. Was he always right? Of course not, no one ever is. But he had a really good track record, including making some hard decisions that he was highly criticized for but that I'm convinced saved the long-term health and well-being of the game.Hey, I'd not be against it.
If Perfect World were to acquire City of Heroes and development placed back under Cryptic's purview, that would make me extremely happy.
Per this post in the Other Games section: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,8156.msg111249.html#msg111249 (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,8156.msg111249.html#msg111249)
At PAX East during a developer panel on the Future of Online Games a question was posed about games being shut down, CoH was cited and Jack Emmert looked to the Wildstar developer and said "Tell NCsoft to call me."
Now Jack could have been just talking but this is by far the best and most public attempt to get CoH yet. Not only that, but it's even being said by one of the most well known MMO developers in the industry and the CREATOR of City of Heroes.
Putting aside Jack hate (seriously, please don't derail with your ED problems, see a doctor), this could be the chance we've been waiting for. As a community we should latch on to this moment and appeal to NCsoft through multiple channels; CALL JACK EMMERT, WE WANT COH BACK.
Well, but then enter ED and then a tidal-wave of player-hatred that swept a lot of people out of the game.
Things always seemed to run more smoothly after he left. Many of my favorite features came about after he left.
Well, but then enter ED and then a tidal-wave of player-hatred that swept a lot of people out of the game.
Things always seemed to run more smoothly after he left. Many of my favorite features came about after he left.
Don't get me wrong, I would deal with this devil in order to play my game. But he's still wearing horns. 8)
The entire Jack Emmert issue is very simple - he is a terrible communicator.
The entire ED mess was one where the nerf and the roleout of the IO's recipes should have been in one issue together. So you could say we changed one style of character development for a better one and then it could be shown how with a well put together character under the new way you could do so much more.
The stupid response to ED in the infamous "People in MMO's come and they go, it doesn't matter." Yes, it did matter and it was PAINFUL.
He needed a filter between his brain and posting on the forums. He needed to run his posts through another person to see if he was actually saying what he thought he was saying. I do this now at work if I am replying to something important and I want to be clear.
It was just his "I know how everyone should be playing" attitude. Everything seemed aimed as "You decide how you want to play" after he left.
You have to keep in mind that sometimes the community is a terrible judge of what should and shouldn't be doneLil Wayne. Case and point. (Just a joke people not a derailment)
I would love to see City of Heroes back up again. However, I doubt they would risk selling it back to Cryptic and having them make the game more successful.Indeed, their egos - and the drubbing the MMO press would give them over Cryptic's success with reviving it after they casually threw it away (and still refuse to say why) - would be more than they could take.
That's part of being a game designer, though. You have to keep in mind that sometimes the community is a terrible judge of what should and shouldn't be done. By human nature, the community in general wants instant gratification. As a game designer, you have to try to draw things out as long as you can to keep people paying you money. Ideally, you can strike a balance between the two so that everyone is somewhat happy. Sometimes you just plain can't, and the community gets upset. Sometimes you try but you overshoot a mark, but one thing about an MMORPG is that you can never just sit on the status quo.It's just that after he left, I felt like I could log on and make the game as easy or as hard as my mood dictated. The mission slider was genius. That allowed each and every player to tailor the game to what they wanted.
While I'm not a game designer, anyone who has had responsibility for making decisions that risk being unpopular can relate, which is why there were some things that I thought City of Heroes and the developers could do better, decisions that I thought weren't the right ones, but I always tried to be constructive and understanding even when things I didn't like were being rolled out. But there were indeed several times when I wish the developers did NOT have such a "you decide how you want to play" attitude towards the game, times when I felt like we needed a Jack Emmert to put his foot down and say, "No, THIS is the direction we're going in. You may not agree, but this is my living, and right or wrong I get the privilege of deciding that." And there were times that Matt Miller and crew did in fact do this, but the community was blissfully unaware of it.
That's part of being a game designer, though. You have to keep in mind that sometimes the community is a terrible judge of what should and shouldn't be done. By human nature, the community in general wants instant gratification. As a game designer, you have to try to draw things out as long as you can to keep people paying you money. Ideally, you can strike a balance between the two so that everyone is somewhat happy. Sometimes you just plain can't, and the community gets upset. Sometimes you try but you overshoot a mark, but one thing about an MMORPG is that you can never just sit on the status quo.
There was a time this would've been the worst news ever. Now, it's the best news ever. Funny how times change.Amen to that.
The whole Pre-ED thing always seemed a bit weird to me. Like they never actually tested their game. I mean, look at the powers and enhancement system:*Derailment alert*
Every power can have six slots.
You can put an enhancement in each slot for 33% of the power's original value.
6*33% = roughly a 200% mark-up.
So did the devs never actually, you know, six-slot all their character's powers and actually try to find out how durable or powerful they were or weren't? I mean, a power with 20% defense is going to have give 60% defense just from 6-slotting it. And that's ONE power!
Did no one in alpha or beta point any of this out? Sheesh.
As for the STO forums, I'll check it out.
*Derailment alert*
I personally have no desire to play the game without ED. Seems dumb, actually. I believe the issue was that it came across as a global nerf (because it was) with nothing to balance it. Had it come with IOs (as someone mentioned) it would have been a very different story... and perhaps Jack's reputation wouldn't be quite as severe... not that I mean to invalidate others' apparent negative impressions.
Has anyone gone onto the CO Forums or STO forums and posted about Jack's comments in an effort to get him to respond, or has anyone PM'd him through those same forums?
Has anyone gone onto the CO Forums or STO forums and posted about Jack's comments in an effort to get him to respond, or has anyone PM'd him through those same forums?
It's very easy to make a throw-away comment that you know will generate a lot of free goodwill on a panel.
It's even easier to make that comment when your own inside information has informed you that NCSoft has absolutely no intention of selling to you.
Color me extremely skeptical.
It still makes for an interesting statement though. I'm pretty pessimistic, but even if he's not serious, there's a bit of a, "NCsoft, I triple-dog dare you", vibe to it. Regardless of his seriousness in wanting to buy CoH (if that's even what the comment was about), it sort of acknowledges the buzz that NCsoft ignored any and all attempts to buy, without risking any type of legal action. And to have that on a public stage from a professional source is a pretty intriguing event.
It's very easy to make a throw-away comment that you know will generate a lot of free goodwill on a panel.
It's even easier to make that comment when your own inside information has informed you that NCSoft has absolutely no intention of selling to you.
Color me extremely skeptical.
It still makes for an interesting statement though. I'm pretty pessimistic, but even if he's not serious, there's a bit of a, "NCsoft, I triple-dog dare you", vibe to it. Regardless of his seriousness in wanting to buy CoH (if that's even what the comment was about), it sort of acknowledges the buzz that NCsoft ignored any and all attempts to buy, without risking any type of legal action. And to have that on a public stage from a professional source is a pretty intriguing event.Exactly what I was thinking.
You have to keep in mind that sometimes the community is a terrible judge of what should and shouldn't be done.
Surelle, I have a Silver account and have posted, but I have not PM'd anyone. Still rooting around for that. So far, the only "dev" I have seen is the Community Manager.
For the record, I was never on the Jack hate train either. I've defended him and the decisions he made in running the game many times. Laypeople have little to no idea how hard it really is to design and run a fun and engaging game, one that has to be designed to last for years, probably over a decade or more if you're lucky, as well as the technical skill to actually execute on that plan successfully. Was he always right? Of course not, no one ever is. But he had a really good track record, including making some hard decisions that he was highly criticized for but that I'm convinced saved the long-term health and well-being of the game.I agree that most of the changes Jack implemented were for the benefit of the game. However, he didn't implement the changes in a very palatable manner. He wasn't nearly as bad as NCSoft, but he could have done better with the communication. I reluctantly supported the fact that he had a vision for the game and worked towards that end. Any MMO needs to work towards one (possibly two) visionary goal(s), and not three or four dozen visionary goals. I just didn't entirely agree with his vision of where the game should go. It was still a very good game though, even when Jack was in charge. It just got better when he stepped aside. I would definitely play it again if Cryptic got a hold of it again.
If Perfect World were to acquire City of Heroes and development placed back under Cryptic's purview, that would make me extremely happy.
Another example: Jack was of the opinion, at least back then, that players should be teaming. I didn't and don't always like teaming, so I was rather against him in that regard. However, when I look back at what I liked best about the game, only rarely do I think of soloing AVs. (Dreck pre-Ed and post-ED/IO was a blast. )
My better memories are of MoUGTs, MoM's and the MoMagisterium trials, and the Apex task force. So, I have to think that Jack was right about that position, too - at least a little bit right. Certainly not all wrong.
Not selling is a business move. I doubt NCSoft has any personal feelings towards the player base. We need to stop thinking of NCsoft as sinister. They are about as sinister as GE or IBM or Coke. But business is business. Like it or not.
...but you should never tell your customers that they don't know what they want, or that they should want something other than what they do want.
It's very easy to make a throw-away comment that you know will generate a lot of free goodwill on a panel.
It's even easier to make that comment when your own inside information has informed you that NCSoft has absolutely no intention of selling to you.
Color me extremely skeptical.
And then he basically told the playerbase that they were being babies and should shut up, because he knows better than the playerbase how to play the game. Which technically is true, because he helped build the damn thing, but you should never tell your customers that they don't know what they want, or that they should want something other than what they do want.
It's very easy to make a throw-away comment that you know will generate a lot of free goodwill on a panel.
It's even easier to make that comment when your own inside information has informed you that NCSoft has absolutely no intention of selling to you.
Color me extremely skeptical.
To be 100% honest, I really believe that the problem that most people had with Jack Emmert wasn't any particular change he made to the game, including ED. I think that the problem that most people had with Jack was that he left City of Heroes to start a competing project, which eventually became Champions Online. People felt betrayed by him. I think that's also why you're seeing such an outpouring in this thread of people enthusiastic about the possibility that he could resurrect the game--it may very well turn out that NCsoft, who we thought was our friend all these years, was the devil all this time and Jack, in what would be an ultimate act of redemption, could turn out to be the game's savior. You can't make up an ending better than that. At any rate, the point is that folks don't really care so much about how good or bad Jack's impact on game mechanics were, and we're ready and willing to embrace him once again on our team if we had an opportunity to do so.I'm not saying I really hated Jack, but some of the design decisions he made (and admitted were his in posts on the forums) frustrated the hell out of me. (There were more, too, but it wasn't until later years that we learned those decisions had been his.) All of my frustration with Jack came before he left the game.
To be 100% honest, I really believe that the problem that most people had with Jack Emmert wasn't any particular change he made to the game, including ED. I think that the problem that most people had with Jack was that he left City of Heroes to start a competing project, which eventually became Champions Online. People felt betrayed by him.
To be fair, he never said, "You're being babies, shut up, I know better than you how to play the game." That's just your interpretation of what he said.No shit Sherlock, I didn't say he did. I said he *BASICALLY* said that. And that's the truth. He was extremely caustic on the forums when any of his changes garnered any kind of flak, even minor grumbles.
To be 100% honest, I really believe that the problem that most people had with Jack Emmert wasn't any particular change he made to the game, including ED. I think that the problem that most people had with Jack was that he left City of Heroes to start a competing project, which eventually became Champions Online. People felt betrayed by him.I very highly doubt that.
Technically, what he said was true. ED did not touch any POWERS. ED did not nerf any powers. However, to the players, the enhancement system is a very important part of the power system. There is no difference to the players between nerfing a power and nerfing the enhancements you can put in a power. He was thinking like a developer, not like a player.
Do you think that would warrant an official Call To Action?
Do you think that would warrant an official Call To Action?
That's what I meant {just got off work, brain not fully braining at this point}. But on the whole, yes - running with Jack's comment, see if we can get some inertia going, PR and otherwise. I mean, we have a whole panel of famous MMORPG developers saying that CoH shouldn't have died, capped by the game's original creator calling NCsoft to work something out - if that doesn't have opportunity written all over it, I don't know what does.
It very well could. But first, we need the best email for contacting Jack Emmert directly. I mean, we don't even know how often a general public PR email is ever checked or by whom. And would whomever is finally checking it even be aware of what was said at the recent PAX East MMO panel?
However, a concentrated, succinct, positive effort directed at Jack may indicate both to him and to PWI that there are still devoted customers who would love the chance to be paying customers again. Even though Jack kinda dumped CoH by the roadside, he at least was leaving it in maintenance mode and running. And he above all other people must have seen how hard the players and genre in general took it when the game was shuttered because it was his first baby.
Maybe in his own mind he sees it as a mess and full of mistakes, being one of its original creators, but the business side of him must know there's still some money to be made there, both with the original and with a sequel. He must know there was one underway in some form; it was public knowledge to a degree, and plus, some of the Paragon Studios gang wound up over at Cryptic when PS went down anyway.
So what is the most direct way of contacting Jack, anyone know?
I don't know Jack's contact information, and even if we did have it I'd suggest keeping it to one person so they could start a conversation, as opposed to bombing Jack's email.
For right now I do believe bombing Cryptic's PR link above will get at least some notice. You can also contact them on twitter @CrypticStudios
Companies watch their twitter accounts, give em a shout there too. I'm not disagreeing with you though, getting Jack to elaborate on this would be awesome, I think we need to get Massively or mmorpg.com to ask him. Imagine if he told them "Yeah, I definitely want to talk City of Heroes, lets get it back home and back online." THAT would be some amazing publicity for us.
That's what I meant {just got off work, brain not fully braining at this point}. But on the whole, yes - running with Jack's comment, see if we can get some inertia going, PR and otherwise. I mean, we have a whole panel of famous MMORPG developers saying that CoH shouldn't have died, capped by the game's original creator calling NCsoft to work something out - if that doesn't have opportunity written all over it, I don't know what does.
As I mentioned on the other thread, I've already forwarded this video to Eliot Lefebvre (the regular columnist for COH and CO) to see if he might find it a story worth pursuing.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Also, I'm reluctant to see the actual members of Team Wildcard diverted from prepping the package for Google. Once that's done, maybe the decision can be made whether it needs to be sent or wait and see if #CallJack gets any traction. That's a strategic call that's above my paygrade, though.
A couple of things to point out:
The most recent post from Cryptic on their Twitter feed (@CrypticStudios) says that they will be attending New York ComiCon. In 2009!
The "Following" list is a goldmine of high-mickety-mucks at Cryptic. Of note: Cryptic COO Craig Zinkievich (@CrypticZinc). Allso, a few folks who run or are high up in other studios.
Not suggesting Twitter-bombing anyone, but it's a starting point.
Obviously, though, #CallJack should be directed at NCSoft. Also, I'm reluctant to see the actual members of Team Wildcard diverted from prepping the package for Google. Once that's done, maybe the decision can be made whether it needs to be sent or wait and see if #CallJack gets any traction. That's a strategic call that's above my paygrade, though.
I'm fine with that, this Call to Action could be "Bring CoH Home." and be focused on opening a line of communication between Cryptic and NCsoft.
#CallJack Press Bomb: Let 'em know this is something we want to know more about!
*contact info*
I'd personally just copy and paste the same short, succinct message to each place.
Couldn't this possibly be a quick diversion, inserted first because of its incredibly positive traction potential? I mean, Google doesn't know CoH from Adam.
The entire Jack Emmert issue is very simple - he is a terrible communicator.
It's very easy to make a throw-away comment that you know will generate a lot of free goodwill on a panel.
It's even easier to make that comment when your own inside information has informed you that NCSoft has absolutely no intention of selling to you.
Color me extremely skeptical.
Obviously, though, #CallJack should be directed at NCSoft. Also, I'm reluctant to see the actual members of Team Wildcard diverted from prepping the package for Google.
BINGO!
...(a whole bunch of lucid, salient points; need the quote block because I took too long with my reply)...
It's possible that we're missing a slight angle on this, in that it's not in Jack's/Cryptic's court to initiate the conversation. Maybe we need to be directing our focus to Jeremy Gaffney and Carbine Studios because they were the face of NCsoft at the panel.
info@carbinestudios.com
http://www.facebook.com/jeremy.gaffney
https://twitter.com/JeremyGaffney
They may not want to take on that kind of project, given how stretched thin they are with two full-bore projects, one that's arguably foundering (http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=214581), and another (http://crypticstudios.com/in_development) on the horizon.
It's possible that we're missing a slight angle on this, in that it's not in Jack's/Cryptic's court to initiate the conversation. Maybe we need to be directing our focus to Jeremy Gaffney and Carbine Studios because they were the face of NCsoft at the panel.
It's possible that we're missing a slight angle on this, in that it's not in Jack's/Cryptic's court to initiate the conversation. Maybe we need to be directing our focus to Jeremy Gaffney and Carbine Studios because they were the face of NCsoft at the panel.
info@carbinestudios.com
http://www.facebook.com/jeremy.gaffney
https://twitter.com/JeremyGaffney
I think you're on the right track, Blondie, but Jeremy probably has about as much influence as Melissa did.
It's possible that we're missing a slight angle on this, in that it's not in Jack's/Cryptic's court to initiate the conversation. Maybe we need to be directing our focus to Jeremy Gaffney and Carbine Studios because they were the face of NCsoft at the panel.Please don't contact Carbine or anyone there. They are not a voice inside NCsoft. They have no influence on anything other than their game (and even then they have to get approval for their ideas). They are working very hard on getting their game out. Don't bug them. Don't carpet bomb their points of contact. They can't give you a better point of contact.
info@carbinestudios.com
http://www.facebook.com/jeremy.gaffney
https://twitter.com/JeremyGaffney
Jack stated in an interview about Neverwinter (http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/videos/gameID/634/videoId/3021) that he's "a regular fixture at GenCon." I know it's a few months away, but a few people have already expressed a desire to go see VV, who has been announced as an author guest of honor. Perhaps he could be "cornered" at a Q&A or some such.
Please don't contact Carbine or anyone there. They are not a voice inside NCsoft. They have no influence on anything other than their game (and even then they have to get approval for their ideas). They are working very hard on getting their game out. Don't bug them. Don't carpet bomb their points of contact. They can't give you a better point of contact.
We've clarified our Call to Action: Bring CoH Home, right now the only task is contacting media regarding this. A few articles on this subject would be huge for our community. To continue the "Should MMOs die?" conversation keeps NCsoft on the defense and us in control of the narrative.Indeed. In the immortal words of Light Yagami: "In all things, one cannot win with defense alone. To win, you must attack."
Indeed. In the immortal words of Light Yagami: "In all things, one cannot win with defense alone. To win, you must attack."
Why would PWE NOT want CoX?
They'd have 2 super hero mmos. So what? How many fantasy mmos does NCSoft own?
CoX is better than their current super hero mmo. So says the sales reports, the fan voting and the mmo review sites.
CoX has 8+ yrs of development already built and running. Plus there's another huge issue sitting on a beta server that would have fixed all things. I imagine I25 was in an alpha state on top of that. Even if PWE did nothing to further the game it would be years ahead of any other super hero mmo and have several months of new content that would require minimal development on their end.
CoX is running their old engine. They wouldn't have to do much to bring it into their stable and have it up and running on their servers.
CoX has a rabid fan base looking to spend money.
Owning the top two super hero mmos open some interesting opportunities for a future crossover mmo that would have a cornered market in a time of super hero pop culture saturation with all the movies out there.
This is a win-win for them.
The only one needing convincing is NCSoft. And at least if they did sell to Cryptic they could say they finally were able to find a good home for the fans of CoX and that's why it took so long to move the IP.
While I agree that it would probably be a win win for PWE, I dont think sales reports and reviews are only measure of success. Or else, using that as the measure, COX and super hero MMOs are low totem pole peanuts in the world of the MMO and the ones that say there is no market for super hero MMO are absolutely correct, according to sales reports and reviews.
I think success could be measured beyond sale reports and reviews. The way I measure success would mean COX is one of if not the most successful game in the world. I dont recall players having this much passion about any game. And that is the the greatest success that money cant buy. Most games go, the players move on no questions asked. Yet, not this player base. This would imply, that while on the surface COX is a game like any other game, like WoW and such, it is not just a game. It was something more. And that is something not even WoW, one of the trop dogs money and review wise, have from what I see, and thus I believe COX is a more successful game than even WoW.
While I agree that it would probably be a win win for PWE, I dont think sales reports and reviews are only measure of success. Or else, using that as the measure, COX and super hero MMOs are low totem pole peanuts in the world of the MMO and the ones that say there is no market for super hero MMO are absolutely correct, according to sales reports and reviews.
I think success could be measured beyond sale reports and reviews. The way I measure success would mean COX is one of if not the most successful game in the world. I dont recall players having this much passion about any game. And that is the the greatest success that money cant buy. Most games go, the players move on no questions asked. Yet, not this player base. This would imply, that while on the surface COX is a game like any other game, like WoW and such, it is not just a game. It was something more. And that is something not even WoW, one of the trop dogs money and review wise, have from what I see, and thus I believe COX is a more successful game than even WoW.
Not trying to downplay our community here, but if WoW were suddenly shut down like CoH was the world as we know it would cease to exist. Simultaneous worldwide rioting, anarchy.
Whereas CoH players have convened at Titan since the closure, ex-WoW players would take the UN HQ in New York by force and start executing people hourly on television for their pleasure.
Whereas CoH players have Plan Z, the riotous ex-WoW players would eventually split off into Alliance and Horde and attempt to rebuild Azeroth in the ashes and ruins of our scorched planet.
Not trying to downplay our community here, but if WoW were suddenly shut down like CoH was the world as we know it would cease to exist. Simultaneous worldwide rioting, anarchy.
To be fair, they haven't tried to close WoW. I think that would be the measure between the 2.
Declining to accept money for a product they no longer want is business, all right. STUPID business.Hard to argue with that. They certainly don't seem to be making decisions based on "business". There is something else motivating them on the rights to CoH.
That's why I say malice. Business is getting what you can for an item you no longer want. Malice is not selling just to frustrate the would-be buyer.
if it just took someone standing up, waving their hand and saying "hey, I'd love the game. Call me."
I don't think anyone here is losing their minds. No one is breaking out mids getting their next build for their main ready because the game will be back NEXT WEEK CAUSE JACK SAID SO.
I think it's a bit much to say people chasing a lead that could, maybe, probably won't but possibly get our game back are "losing their minds."
I think it's a bit much to say people chasing a lead that could, maybe, probably won't but possibly get our game back are "losing their minds."
That perhap came off harsher than it was meant, and for that I apologize.
.
I think it's a bit much to say people chasing a lead that could, maybe, probably won't but possibly get our game back are "losing their minds."
Ok. So I read the forum thread here... Watched the video...
I really do not have a issue with Jack running CoH again if it does work out. But I am kind of biased on this, as I met him when CoH came out and we had a good discussion over CoH, and I was really impressed with him at the time. Also, as for the playerbase disregard he had. He sent me a personal note when my daughter died, since he did remember her from when we met at Chicago WW. Yes, he did have an ego and he wanted to do what he wanted. I was a little peeved at his attitude at the time. But...
People do change. I tried CO, but it just does not work for me. I tried STO when it was in beta. Cryptic has done a wonderful job with STO. I have the lifetime sub on that game, and it just keeps getting better in my opinion.
If somehow NC listens and Jack does pull off the deal, I would be fine with Cryptic back at the helm for CoX.
Except that enhancements are actually powers (of Type=BOOST instead of AUTO or CLICK or TOGGLE or whatever)...
Summoning Ko...
...would it be possible to make a City of Heroes "relaunch" trailer, as it might be made if Cryptic was relaunching City of Heroes? It would certainly have a spoiler tag at the beginning or end saying "This isn't happening but could be. MAKE IT HAPPEN NCSOFT!"
Summoning Ko...
...would it be possible to make a City of Heroes "relaunch" trailer, as it might be made if Cryptic was relaunching City of Heroes? It would certainly have a spoiler tag at the beginning or end saying "This isn't happening but could be. MAKE IT HAPPEN NCSOFT!"
Something like that going viral could help out a lot ;D
Heh, looking at the Wikipedia entry for City of Heroes, I just had to laugh at this:
"Computer Gaming World hailed the game saying "City of Heroes blows a super powered gust of fresh air into an increasingly stale sword-and-sorcery MMO world" in August 2004."
Has the air in the MMO world gotten any fresher since then? I don't think so.
Summoning Ko...
...would it be possible to make a City of Heroes "relaunch" trailer, as it might be made if Cryptic was relaunching City of Heroes? It would certainly have a spoiler tag at the beginning or end saying "This isn't happening but could be. MAKE IT HAPPEN NCSOFT!"
Something like that going viral could help out a lot ;D
EXTERIOR - ATLAS PARK, NIGHT
Several heroes stand with torches on the steps, patiently waiting. Others are seated in the lotus position (on the ground and in the air), while others are waving protest signs.
At the foot of the stairs are several of the Crey MIBs. A couple are holding blueprints, others are using tablets. The rest are talking to the heroes, and it looks like they are in the middle of a rather heated argument.MALE CREY MIB:
"You don't understand. It's OVER. You and the others are required to depart.
Your leaders are gone. Your options are exhausted. NO ONE IS COMING TO SAVE YOU."
For a second it looks like the bad guys have won. Then...
Several of the heroes look startled. Then a few start to laugh, while a large number of them begin cheering and applauding.MALE CREY MIB:
*leaning forward and looking rather hostile*
"WHAT?"
Johanna, standing near the front of the crowd, points at something over the MIBs' shoulders.
The MIBs turn around.
A faint ghostly figure has appeared just above the fountain... then it becomes solid.
It's Statesman, floating there in true heroic pose.STATESMAN:
"You were saying?"
FADE TO BLACK.
WHITE TEXT slowly appears over the black background.It's not over yet.
#SAVECOH
It's not over yet.
With as many demofiles as I have, plus the I-24 functionality changes for demorecording... hmm...
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Disclaimer: I'm not speaking for Team Wildcard here - the following is my own personal analysis, so if anyone wants to correct me, feel free to do so. With that in mind....
I don't think this falls under Wildcard purview. While we're trying to facilitate the purchase of CoH IP, we are essentially focusing on people who have the capability to buy it, but have also plausibly never heard of City of Heroes, and almost certainly never played it - companies with sufficient clout, but who are otherwise ignorant of the fiscal opportunity CoH would be. Cryptic, thus, is the exact opposite of the kind of, for lack of a better word, ignorance we're trying to dispel and pitching to them would make the phrase "preaching to the choir" the understatement of the century. So while I'm sure we, individually, would each jump on the #CallJack bandwagon with enthusiasm, there's not much need for what we're doing with Wildcard in this situation.
The poor CO people were asking about their game, too. =(
Don't forget Segs!
You do have a game to log into!
Yes, COH was his first big project so there's likely some emotional attachment to keeping it alive. But beyond that? It might keep his interest for a few months but it wouldn't be long before it ended up in the same boat as Champions.
(and no offense, but Titan's search functionality sucks)No offense taken. Also not disagreeing. :)
Ok, so if Cryptic were to buy CoX and release it with I24 some of you sound like you're saying that wouldn't be good enough because Cryptic ignores CO.
So what if Cryptic ignored CoX? Wouldn't you still play CoX given all the goodness that was in the pipeline? Go revisit the I24 list of updates and tell me that stuff wouldn't keep you playing forever. Go look at the list of power pools and power sets that were near release. And I25 was deep into alpha state on top of all that.
All Cryptic would have to do is commit a few months of dev time (they could likely land many of the team from Paragon in temp positions) to package up a final update to CoX and they'd instantly have 10,000s of players paying them $15 a month easily. They could make a killing selling those new power sets and costumes that were just waiting for the server clock to strike midnight on the date of their release.
But the great thing about CoH is that it doesn't need more development...not like other games. There are so many things there that we could do to busy ourselves: Wentworth's, crafting, SG base building and AE. These things alone would keep anyone occupied, and these features don't require anything extra.
Yep. CoH, in maintenance mode at I24 state, could keep me busy for years. Further development would be ideal, but I could live with things the way Resurgence would have made them. Happily.
Rae we aren't going to mailbomb the Media - we are going to ADVERTISE!
Yep. CoH, in maintenance mode at I24 state, could keep me busy for years. Further development would be ideal, but I could live with things the way Resurgence would have made them. Happily.
They could release the powersets that are already built such as psi melee and wind control and call that development. Put them on the paragon market one powerset every few weeks. Would keep that new feeling in place.
Look as simple as hiring 2 Devs to update it would be enough for me. 1 or 2 issues a year and the occasional costume piece would keep me rolling.Yeah.now about that...judging by their current way of dealing looks like they can't even manage 2 or let alone one issue a year. But they sure as hell can release lockboxes like it's nothing. They should be able to manage a few costume pieces at least.
But if Jack saves us
Jack Emmert getting behind a push to resurrect "City of Heroes" seems (to me) a much more likely scenario than either Disney or Google getting involved with the game.
Can we get a new Call to Action regarding Jack Emmert, please? Something in time for April 24th, acknowledging the game's 9th anniversary, of course!
Advertising = good :) I was referring to the first post in the 'call to action' thread, but in the wrong thread, apparently :D
Lightslinger, you aren't wrong.
I am responding to your call and agree. I want to actually put my money where my mouth is at. We have emailed folks, sent regular mail, sent masks and even had people start working to restore the game.
I want to start an advertising campaign to get the game back. Spend a little money and if we can get some banner designs and a video(s) to link to even better. I don't want to take other people's money but I am willing to donate my own. My skills are not in the making of videos or artwork (a man has to know his limitations) - I do however have some spare cash I have been saving to start a server. If however I can spend some to get the game back even better.
So..."Oh yeah!"
I guess this rules out Statesman bursting through the NCSoft logo like the Kool-Aid Man?
I think these ads, if they ever go live, should appear to be a romantic theme -- stick with me on this -- they start like a love letter.
First banner reads: "Dearest NCSoft, I know we've reached a point where we can no longer live together..."
Second banner reads: "... but the result of our union shouldn't be taken from us. We want our beloved back."
Third banner. "Give us our world back."
Something like that.
Maybe a simple Flash banner showing the names of super heroes who have died and have risen from the grave to fight again, then Statesman slowly standing up and the message Click to #Savecoh and going to a video link of our best videos?
I would be more than happy to use the 9th anniversary video :)
In fact maybe we can get a page here with many of the videos all listed and tie it to a banner ad.
http://cohtube.blogspot.com
Enjoy!
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
I'm in if Jack can resurrect COH.
I was never into the whole Jack hate thing. I joined around i5 and all I saw was a guy that created CoH. From what I could read into ED, it was necessary to make CoH the hugely enjoyable game that it turned out to be.
You might even argue that the introduction of Incarnate powers detracted from the overall enjoyment of the game - or not as the case may be :)
If it did go ahead, I would be pushing strongly for Statesman to also get on the resurrection train.
I'm not going to derail this thread but I think the handling of the death of Statesman was an all time low from the devs.
Yep. CoH, in maintenance mode at I24 state, could keep me busy for years. Further development would be ideal, but I could live with things the way Resurgence would have made them. Happily.Absolute agreement, which also makes the entire shutdown bewildering and frustrating.
Another bonus to advertising is that it is sure to generate another round of stories in the game press.DINGDINGDING - we have a WINNAH! ( ' :
is there any progress on someone contacting Jack to see if he was serious or not?
But if someone can get an email contact, I wouldn't mind following up.
Ok. So I read the forum thread here... Watched the video...
I really do not have a issue with Jack running CoH again if it does work out. But I am kind of biased on this, as I met him when CoH came out and we had a good discussion over CoH, and I was really impressed with him at the time. Also, as for the playerbase disregard he had. He sent me a personal note when my daughter died, since he did remember her from when we met at Chicago WW. Yes, he did have an ego and he wanted to do what he wanted. I was a little peeved at his attitude at the time. But...
People do change. I tried CO, but it just does not work for me. I tried STO when it was in beta. Cryptic has done a wonderful job with STO. I have the lifetime sub on that game, and it just keeps getting better in my opinion.
If somehow NC listens and Jack does pull off the deal, I would be fine with Cryptic back at the helm for CoX.
I dont know what to think about it ... What COH really needs now is a publisher. Emmett is a developper, not a publisher. It's nice to see some interest in our game, but what can he really do ? I d rather had something from PWE director.
Well, yeah....but even moreso than that, we need NCSoft to get in on the deal.
I dont know what to think about it ... What COH really needs now is a publisher.
Now, how does it relate? Whether or not any of the old-timers remember playing with Crimson Bolt/Angel of Caine (he evidently used both on CoH), if we showed the same sort of support for him that we did for Moonyfire's dad (and I'm NOT trying to be opportunistic, here!), there is no way that would escape notice.
Along the lines of Coyote, there has been a discussion of a former CoH player turned CO player who has taken ill. Similar discussion of adding him to the game have cropped up through the thread. I haven't been sure if I should ring it up over here, or where, because I wasn't sure if I was actually remembering him well enough to be able to relay the info correctly. I'll just post the link to the thread, here:I know in TPP we've been preparing a memorial garden, to put down the names of the characters whose players have died, it only seems fitting to keep a bit of them going in the little way we can. Yes, inspired by Coyote, Moonfyre's dad, and such.
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=217141
Now, how does it relate? Whether or not any of the old-timers remember playing with Crimson Bolt/Angel of Caine (he evidently used both on CoH), if we showed the same sort of support for him that we did for Moonyfire's dad (and I'm NOT trying to be opportunistic, here!), there is no way that would escape notice.
is there any progress on someone contacting Jack to see if he was serious or not?
The most difficult task of all. Getting them to sell things requires them to be reasonable. I picture NCSoft as the kid that won't share their old toys. They sit in the toybox gathering dust, but if someone else wants to play with it that's just not going to happen.
Someone with art skills draw that as a meme :P
I reached out to him this morning. I'll let you all know if I hear anything. As mentioned above, Jack is a busy guy, probably busier right now with the imminent launch of Neverwinter (http://nw.perfectworld.com/) on his plate. While I'm hopeful for a response, it wouldn't surprise me if I didn't get one. In the meanwhile, if anyone does go to see him in person, ask him something along the lines of, "What can we do to help?"
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.ifimages.com%2Fphotos%2FhbFmJGrqISxpshpS6kCMRPgHJFE%2Fauthor-700%2FPortrait-boy-sharing-toys-sister.jpg)This is why you always bring your own toys. :p. (really, dont take the comment too serious.)
At this point I really can wait for more development. I just want access to the game as we left it.
Well, I honestly didn't expect to hear anything quickly, but he actually pinged me back this afternoon. He said thanks for the enthusiasm, and commented on the people who made City of Heroes great. Regarding acquiring the game, he says:
"I'm not sure there's anything really you need to mobilize. I'm personally aware of the CoH fandom and I was speaking from the heart at that panel. I'd be happy to talk to NCSoft if they called. I'm not sure there's anything that can be done right now other than what you're doing already."
This almost feels like it should be the spark to fire off a unified "Please sell CoH" message to NCSoft.Thought we already send tat message way back from the get go?
I'm not sure how else to go about it that we havent already tried, but sometimes the direct route is one worth pursuing even after its failed.
After all, if you go to http://www.cityofheroes.com/en/sunset.php Cryptic's logo is still on it. Yes, I'm aware that NCSoft owns all the rights to it and everything about it, but the acknowledgement is there that it once belonged to Cryptic Studios and Paragon Studios.Cryptic's logo is still there because Cryptic owns the engine that City ran on. NCsoft had a permanent license to it. But it was still Cryptic's engine.
The key here is the shift in message from the original SaveCoH push- that one, before the shutdown, was an attempt to keep the game alive.
This effort, if it can get rolling, is "okay, if you won't keep it alive yourselves, sell it to someone who will". It's a very different message, but it still involves needing NCsoft to feel like they'll benefit from this.
I think any potential good PR they'd get for selling the game wouldn't undo the bad PR they got for shutting it down. And it's going to be very difficult to find anyone willing to offer whatever pricepoint NCsoft wants for CoH.
But the demand is here for them to do it, they're aware of it, other studios are aware of it, it's just going to be a waiting game at this point. The key thing is to stay active and loud about it. The longer CoH stays 'active' as a topic of conversation, the better it looks to studios who want to buy it. After all, when other MMOs get shut down, it's usually pretty quiet. When CoH got shut down it exploded, and that fire hasn't gone out yet. Keep it lit. They'll do the right thing for players eventually.
I think the most harmful thing to this effort right now is all of the vague, confusing messages it's putting out. Bandying around a bunch of weird catch phrases and flowery posturing has made it look weird and incomprehensible to outsiders. This is a video game, and we want it back. We need to focus on communicating that, not "WE ARE HEROES ITS WHAT WE DO" stuff that means nothing and has become shorthand for "you will not know what im talking about but BOY AM I ANGRY" to the outside world.
Indeed
I think it's great that he acknowledges the fact there's a fan base that is fighting back for a game that was unjustly shut down. I am curious, however, if Jack ever made an attempt to call them, since NCSoft did say they "exhausted all options". If he's serious about taking it back, then why not reach out to them? Why wait for NCSoft to call him? I do know that NeverWinter is the project at hand and there's another "top secret" project going to be in the works after that, so he's extremely busy. But why not take a few minutes and make a call? What's the worst that can happen? NCSoft hang up on him?
After all, if you go to http://www.cityofheroes.com/en/sunset.php Cryptic's logo is still on it. Yes, I'm aware that NCSoft owns all the rights to it and everything about it, but the acknowledgement is there that it once belonged to Cryptic Studios and Paragon Studios.
Okay, babbling is done....going back to my corner to be quiet again....probably safer that way :D
What would be the point of "just calling" NCSoft?
What would be the point of "just calling" NCSoft? Jack would need millions of dollars in financial backing lined up, not to mention a full contractual offer with stipulations (old account/character backups, expansion backups, etc.) ready to be put onto the table first. And as we can see just from the simple fan proposal from Team Wildcard, even that takes many months, never mind what an IP buyout offer would take over and above that. And who's going to get enough backing and pay people to do all that, especially with NCSoft's repeated claims that they're not selling?
Since both Jack Emmert and I have been getting questions about what he said at PAX East, we had a quick email conversation to figure out what went down (I wasn't at the panel).
Jack's got an emotional attachment to CoH, and when he said he'd take a call from NCSoft, it was an off-the-cuff remark born from his love of the game. If NCSoft gave him a call, he'd be happy to talk to them, but that's all that there is -- there aren't any plans at Cryptic or PWE to bring back City of Heroes. There's no plan, just a wistful hope that it gets another issue someday.
I don't know how this is going to work, but here's a qoute from the CM over on the CO forum, in their version of this thread:Well, isn't that depressing :'(
Quote from: trailturtle;3123071
Since both Jack Emmert and I have been getting questions about what he said at PAX East, we had a quick email conversation to figure out what went down (I wasn't at the panel).
Jack's got an emotional attachment to CoH, and when he said he'd take a call from NCSoft, it was an off-the-cuff remark born from his love of the game. If NCSoft gave him a call, he'd be happy to talk to them, but that's all that there is -- there aren't any plans at Cryptic or PWE to bring back City of Heroes. There's no plan, just a wistful hope that it gets another issue someday.
This was posted about 4 hours ago.
Well, isn't that depressing :'(
I don't know how this is going to work, but here's a qoute from the CM over on the CO forum, in their version of this thread:Well, I say so what - let's do it anyway! If nothing else, it's a black eye for NCSoft, and keeps up the publicity for our movement. I'm still willing to break out my checkbook for this if someone designs the banner ads and we have somewhere/something to link them to.
This was posted about 4 hours ago.
I'll suggest one up; if NCSoft called and said, "Hey, we'd like to sell COX to you and here's the price we'd have to have"-- and it was a reasonably good deal-- and Cryptic/PWE turned to the CoH playerbase and said, "this is the price they'd like to have, can you help us fund it?"
I think wallets would be thrown.
I'll suggest one up; if NCSoft called and said, "Hey, we'd like to sell COX to you and here's the price we'd have to have"-- and it was a reasonably good deal-- and Cryptic/PWE turned to the CoH playerbase and said, "this is the price they'd like to have, can you help us fund it?"
I think wallets would be thrown.
I'll suggest one up; if NCSoft called and said, "Hey, we'd like to sell COX to you and here's the price we'd have to have"-- and it was a reasonably good deal-- and Cryptic/PWE turned to the CoH playerbase and said, "this is the price they'd like to have, can you help us fund it?"
I think wallets would be thrown.
Our game is locked up tight...CO is flopping around like a fish out of water. I think Jack could make a great argument that a hybrid could be created. I am not saying I want CoX to be that cartoonish, but if there is a way to get the band back together, I'm in. The only fear in this hybrid beast is just what would they take from each game and what would get lost.Yep. I like some things in ox and I like some things in CO.
CO is flopping around like a fish out of water.
Well, isn't that depressing :'(
The CEO of a game development studio publicly says that he'd be willing to discuss acquiring the game and multiple people in the industry agreed that City of Heroes never should have been shut down, and that's depressing? Guys, if you watched the video, you would know that Jack's comment was an off-the-cuff remark with the best of intentions, but you cannot possibly interpret from it that it was more than what it was. I got no impression from the video that Jack was making plans to acquire the game.
But that's not depressing. What I did get from it is that if the opportunity presented itself, he'd talk to them. To be blunt, that's more of a commitment than we've gotten from any other company since the game shut down, and it shows that at least people in the industry aren't sitting around saying, "City of Heroes? Oh yeah, it was about time that clunker shut down and made way for shiny new games," which is the narrative that NCsoft has been pushing.
This was never anything close to a done deal, but make no mistake, it was a very good thing.
So...
I guess this rules out Statesman bursting through the NCSoft logo like the Kool-Aid Man?