Plan Z: Justice (A third option)

[Nadia Luma]

Not all supers have secret identities either, mostly DC.
I dunno, I went to CoH for the "comic" aspect of being a superhero. But I agree that making it around a certain guy is bad. Designing sets and such around certain characters? Go for it.

In the beginning the idea wasn't based on those characters I mentioned. It was part of a idea to give a broader hero style mmo. Now I see that doesn't represent all or many heroes. Some like mentioned, don't have secret identities. So I decided that being able to choose would better fit. Which carried over to basing more of the gameplay around choices, which is something they do.

[Nadia Luma]

At this point I feel like I've hit a wall. I'm not sure where else to go. I'm trying to walk a fair line between familiarization and innovation (In my opinion). Most people who read this post will be on the fence for my concept. Most will be waiting on a more sound idea. If I haven't mentioned it yet, right now just take it as it will be as you remember it. No need to go deep into explaining what you already know, at least not right now. Its only me, until I get some more help. The the help I being used for the other two projects. I'm working on dropping the Plan Z, making Justice a stand alone project. I've decided to use my own finances once I've shuffled things around. Just know that I am dedicated to seeing this through.

[Nadia Luma]

Original post Slightly updated...

[avelworldcreator]

Just holler our way if you need any support.

[Nadia Luma]

I've been thinking the last few days.  Freeform or archetype? I think this part is very important. While playing Coh, I was always thinking about mixing powerset to better suit my toon. Then CO let you do it with freeform. Still it didn't feel right....I mean I enjoyed the  play style and all...but now the construct was gone. No more need for teams... for the most part. I felt alone....so how do I decide? How do find a middle ground? I want the choice of more freedom when selecting powers but I don't want to lose the greatness of teaming.

[pewlagon]

Two things I'd be picky with...

One, the Genesis Strain. Good idea but pelase don't pigeon whole our characters into that plot point because some of us don't even make humans as characters. Also, magic really shouldn't be tied to DNA. Keep it like Pandora's Box was in CoH. Nowhere in CoH did it state our characters HAD to have gotten powers because of the box opening, but it was there as an overall explanation to the hero population surge.

Two, Countering/Blocking. I HATE blocking in CO. It is not something I want to worry about in order to utilize other abilities. The way I interpret how it was presented here, as a passive with surprise chance built in, good. But please, don't make me worry about needing to block constantly. That belongs in fighting games, not an MMO and the chief reason I will jump off CO when something better comes along.

[Nadia Luma]

Two things I'd be picky with...

One, the Genesis Strain. Good idea but pelase don't pigeon whole our characters into that plot point because some of us don't even make humans as characters. Also, magic really shouldn't be tied to DNA. Keep it like Pandora's Box was in CoH. Nowhere in CoH did it state our characters HAD to have gotten powers because of the box opening, but it was there as an overall explanation to the hero population surge.

Two, Countering/Blocking. I HATE blocking in CO. It is not something I want to worry about in order to utilize other abilities. The way I interpret how it was presented here, as a passive with surprise chance built in, good. But please, don't make me worry about needing to block constantly. That belongs in fighting games, not an MMO and the chief reason I will jump off CO when something better comes along.

You are right in both responses. The Genesis Strain is just the reason for the sudden change. Since the surge of genesis the world change. Technology, medicine, etc......you dont have to have the genesis strain to be effected by it because the world has. Its how you figured it should be.

There is no blocking.....its just as you described it. I see it as a toggle or cast that is subject to chance more or less. Once applied depending on certain circumstances you will counter or block. It just has an animation for it.

I think we are on the same page. Great post... Thanks for the response.

[Player99]

On an off note, the Shield Powerset should have a block :p

On a related one concerning freeform vs AT:

In the MarvelD20 I am making (and posted in this part of the forum) the power selection is all freeform, but separated into categories similar to the CoH sets such as Electricty: Melee/Range/Defense, etc. However, there are still Archetypes in the system and they can all get the same powers. The trick is the incentives and costs of said powers.

All but 1 of the 7 archetypes have a category they can choose as their primary (lets them get 1 free power at the start from the selected set, as well as unlock a tier4 power a good deal earlier in that set), but at the cost of another category having x2 the cost to buy into. For example, the Adept Archetype (think blasters and corruptors mixed) can choose Ranged sets as primary powers, but have to pay double for any defensive powers. While the double cost may be a tad harsh, it is also balanced by the incentive of the Adept to pick up ranged powers through their AT perks (+damage on Power attacks (energy blast, etc), +range, and all that) that stacks with the little bonuses the primary set gives.

The Metahuman (the 1 exception) does not get primaries or double costs, but also has no real AT perks of their own, so they serve as a real "base line".

Hopefully this is some food for thought?

[Nadia Luma]

On an off note, the Shield Powerset should have a block :p

On a related one concerning freeform vs AT:

In the MarvelD20 I am making (and posted in this part of the forum) the power selection is all freeform, but separated into categories similar to the CoH sets such as Electricty: Melee/Range/Defense, etc. However, there are still Archetypes in the system and they can all get the same powers. The trick is the incentives and costs of said powers.

All but 1 of the 7 archetypes have a category they can choose as their primary (lets them get 1 free power at the start from the selected set, as well as unlock a tier4 power a good deal earlier in that set), but at the cost of another category having x2 the cost to buy into. For example, the Adept Archetype (think blasters and corruptors mixed) can choose Ranged sets as primary powers, but have to pay double for any defensive powers. While the double cost may be a tad harsh, it is also balanced by the incentive of the Adept to pick up ranged powers through their AT perks (+damage on Power attacks (energy blast, etc), +range, and all that) that stacks with the little bonuses the primary set gives.

The Metahuman (the 1 exception) does not get primaries or double costs, but also has no real AT perks of their own, so they serve as a real "base line".

Hopefully this is some food for thought?

That's interesting...although I'm not sure If I'm going to go that route. Thats not to say I won't but right now I'm still trying to figure a to give a more freeform, while also providing the similar team structure we're use to (COH).

[Felderburg]

You might want to mention in the OP that is has been edited, so as not to confuse people who come in later.

I think your contemplation of teaming is interesting. In my opinion, it's not the powers or abilities of a character that force teaming, it's other incentives. And you don't want to force people to team just because they picked a character that can't solo very well.

So what incentives make people want to team? Yes, giving each archetype (or whatever) costs helps, but then you may get people complaining: "My empathy defender can't solo, and no one else wants to team," or something like that. And people who want to solo should be able to, and not be forced to team because no character type is able to solo. The question becomes how you give players incentives to team, while not eliminating content for those that want to solo. Let's look at EVE and STO. In EVE, the "real" end game content can't be played solo - you need to be in a Corp., and an alliance, to be able to get the real end game experience. In STO, you can make a single player fleet, but it becomes so cost-prohibitive to actually maintain the base for one person that it effectively gates the fleet-based content to fleets with many people.

I guess what I'm getting at here is this: how much do you want to give players who team, and form SGs, and how much do you want to limit solo players?

[JaguarX]

I like the idea, crownarts and it sounds good.

But as usual I'll wait and see. There are many games which looks good in concept and story but I couldnt find enjoyment in the. Other end, the game looked meh, and was like a parody, and goofy animation style but I had the time of my life in it, currently playing one right now actually.

I think you should go for it. It's not like there are many super hero themed games out there to begin with and a little more choices would be lovely. There are a bunch of fantasy based ones, many started off like this, just an idea being thrown around on a forum board or online, and a few ended up gaining near and or over millions of players.

If there is any better time for more super her games it would be this time now before the big dogs get their heads out of the initate WoW mode and actually start seriously entering the fray. You can be the next big dog as the opportunity is there it up to you to take it. And we can all look back and say, "Hey I remember when that game was a mere idea on a forum where the grammar mistakes were pointed out and the idea was refined. I was there."

The opportunity is there, take it my man. It may never come again.

[Nadia Luma]

You might want to mention in the OP that is has been edited, so as not to confuse people who come in later.

I think your contemplation of teaming is interesting. In my opinion, it's not the powers or abilities of a character that force teaming, it's other incentives. And you don't want to force people to team just because they picked a character that can't solo very well.

So what incentives make people want to team? Yes, giving each archetype (or whatever) costs helps, but then you may get people complaining: "My empathy defender can't solo, and no one else wants to team," or something like that. And people who want to solo should be able to, and not be forced to team because no character type is able to solo. The question becomes how you give players incentives to team, while not eliminating content for those that want to solo. Let's look at EVE and STO. In EVE, the "real" end game content can't be played solo - you need to be in a Corp., and an alliance, to be able to get the real end game experience. In STO, you can make a single player fleet, but it becomes so cost-prohibitive to actually maintain the base for one person that it effectively gates the fleet-based content to fleets with many people.

I guess what I'm getting at here is this: how much do you want to give players who team, and form SGs, and how much do you want to limit solo players?

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not going to go into the successor talk anymore. I think there's been enough of that, as I've decided to be a stand alone concept now. I understand where you're coming from. "Different stokes and all for different folks"...Some people like to solo and others don't. Still I don't think Characters that are unable to solo are any less appealing than one that is able. (Blasters for example)....The one thing I believe about MMORPGs that we come here to play together...Its the one thing I believe in and I won't stray from that idea. It may be poor taste to some but its the one idea that I feel strongly about. This doesn't mean I would as far as not allow you the option to do so...Since this game is about options and choices I think I'd be contradicting myself. My problem is finding that line that pleases everyone.....I know its impossible tasks but i think its the right/Wise choice to give it a true effort. I'm only one person and thats the one thing I know that I can do...and that's think. My grammar is not the best but I am a creative thinker and writer. I normally have a partner, who assist when I begin my grammar error filled rambles but she's unavailable at the moment. 

See I'm beginning to ramble...

The question is, how to give people something similar to freeform yet still provide structure for teaming?

(Thanks I will put its been edited several times in my OP)

I like the idea, crownarts and it sounds good.

But as usual I'll wait and see. There are many games which looks good in concept and story but I couldnt find enjoyment in the. Other end, the game looked meh, and was like a parody, and goofy animation style but I had the time of my life in it, currently playing one right now actually.

I think you should go for it. It's not like there are many super hero themed games out there to begin with and a little more choices would be lovely. There are a bunch of fantasy based ones, many started off like this, just an idea being thrown around on a forum board or online, and a few ended up gaining near and or over millions of players.

If there is any better time for more super her games it would be this time now before the big dogs get their heads out of the initate WoW mode and actually start seriously entering the fray. You can be the next big dog as the opportunity is there it up to you to take it. And we can all look back and say, "Hey I remember when that game was a mere idea on a forum where the grammar mistakes were pointed out and the idea was refined. I was there."

The opportunity is there, take it my man. It may never come again.

Truly thank you for the post...very inspiring. I promise to give this my all and my best effort to see it through. All I ask in return is for more feedback. I would surprise you, with just a little more feedback......I can create something truly grand.

Thanks again.

[ShenDragon]

Hello everyone I'm Shen-Dragon. Shen for short i may have an answer too our problem very soon i and a friend of mine will have the funds too start up our own mmorpg and we plan on makeing a even better one then city!  City was my favorite but I'm hopeful the one we get started will be even better we will have 4million to put into it's start up please contacte if interested !:).

[pewlagon]

Uh, huh. Shen, you seem to be posting this same exact post all over the place. VV sort of warned us of this whole rich friend/I'm rich situation coming up. I'm not saying this is THAT scenario, but if you're legit a stand alone post of your own, in the appropriate area of the forum, would be enough. Right now it looks suspicious.

[ShenDragon]

Well anyways would like to hear from you guys on positives and negatives in your opinions on coh so please mail me.

[kokushokubara]

Seems like a solid foundation to work from. Hope you pull it off

[Nadia Luma]

Well anyways would like to hear from you guys on positives and negatives in your opinions on coh so please mail me.

Well I don't know anything about. I'm trying to create a concept of my own. I'm not sure how posting here about you're very own project would help me. I'm looking for feedback to help further my own idea. Stating the amount you have only makes me weary if you're for real. I would think with that amount of money you wouldn't need much from me or most people here for that matter but I could be wrong....that's just my opinion.

[ShenDragon]

Feedback and opinions are always useful Im a part of this community as well I know what I enjoyed about coh but would like to know what you guys enjoyed also anything you may of felt could of used improvement in the game.

[JaguarX]

well there are over 22,000 multimillionaires in the US alone. So there is a chance that some people know one or two or are one themselves.

True, as VV said, it can be a hoax but dont hope that if just because someone mention they have a decent amount of cash and or starting up something with that cash, it is considered automatic hoax because she said so. In reality, anybody on here can be a hoax themselves including VV. For all I know, she may not have as much if any inside information. By definition she is doing exactly what she described to watch out for minues the millions of dollars. But she seems legit. And until further information comes out, Shen seems legit too just in the wrong sections of the forum which can happen regardless of how much money you have available.

But to Shen, have at it man. If you can start one up, go for it. And if you have 4 million already, then you are on your way already, especially if you raised that amount from various sources. I'll be emailing you soon, probably later tonight or tomorrow on the good, the bad, the ugly, from my view.

[avelworldcreator]

Even though I work for the Phoenix Project version of Plan Z, I have been trying to advertise this one exists where I can. I hope it's been a help.