Author Topic: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)  (Read 18111 times)

Nadia Luma

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Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« on: December 11, 2012, 09:53:43 AM »
(Original Post has been updated 1/20/13 see "To be or not to be")

Justice
The Next Gen Hero MMORPG

                In the Aftermath of the sun-setting of the beloved City of Heroes, many people scramble to find a new home. While many look to other games. Then there are the few like myself, who believe there is only one true way to heal our broken hearts. That way is to create our own spiritual successor of fallen game, and make right this injustice. I want Justice. Justice for me. Justice for all.

   
So what is Justice?
      Justice is a super-powered MMORPG concept, that places the super powered player in a evolving open world. The player armed with a variety of powers and special abilities, will be left to make choices that affect the world around them.

   
The World.
      Set in the near future, the world has moved on since the devastating events that destroyed one of America's great cities (Paragon City, but will never be official said). A new city was born from the ashes, Its name is Nova City. Nova City (My default city) is a robust metropolis filled with people, jobs, homes, and a variety of venues. A wonderful place for many but no city is without crime(Line I stole from the Dark Knight Rises). Nova City has its fair share of crime, and it will be the player's choice on how to deal with it.

Genesis Strain: The Genesis Strain is a strain of DNA found in about 60% of people. Scientist have researched and found that it is responsible for the recent news of people with abnormal gifts and abilities. Most of the 60% don't know the Genesis Strain even exist, and won't even experience any changes. Researchers say its origin can be dated back nearly a thousand years. Alexander Global is a International Corporation which monitors activity around the world, and provides assistance and security against global threats from the Genesis strain.

   
A personal touch.

      City of Heroes/Villains/Going Rogue allowed players an almost unlimited options to customize their character. Justice as a successor should be nothing short of that. The player will have seemingly endless options from the start, and plenty of extras along the way.

   
Slice of life
.
      The Slice of life is a introduction to One of Justice's key features. To accompany the evolving world and player choices, a slice of life is a new dynamic feature to add to game play. While many will   fully take on their persona of honor or evil, their will be others that may take a different approach. Justice allows players a chance to also interact with the world outside of the fighting. Players can try to find that balance, while others can decide to not save the world or destroy it. City made it easy to RP normal lives, Justice takes it a bit further. As player, the normal life is your choice.

   
Universe.
                 In addition to your choice of character, the player will have the choice of his enemies. The city is plentiful with its own baddies. The player can choose the type of enemies he interacts with more often. That could be the enemies of the city or player made enemies. Teaming with other players and friends, players have the opportunity to match up against the enemies of others.


Man on a mission.
                 Missions are very important to life of the super-abled.  Each mission is brings one closer to a defining moment. A moment that can set in motion a chain of events that can change a character forever. Well not forever, but a very interesting take on justice's next feature "mission choices".  Mission choices are apart of dynamic set/ or story arc missions.  Dynamic missions aren't the simple stop a robbery type missions. During or near completion , players will have to make choice. These choices will vary. For an example:  let's say one is trying to take down a major drug ring. After some heavy battling, you come across kingpin. A prompt will ask you " Set free, Arrest, or kill." Depending on the choice the player makes  will set in motion a series of missions with a dramatic ending.  Now I won't go into what those endings will be, the possibilities can be endless.  While in a group, the leader makes the choices. The teams have the option to join the arc and the leader's universe.


                 
To be or not to be
                   I've been trying to figure out how to balance proper teaming structure while still providing a sense of Freeform. There's a few problems I ran across. I had to consider first memberships and free-gamer, or whether that was going to be an issue. Then second was I going to do full freeform or something different. So this is what I've the decided as of now, There will be Origin ArchTypes Melee (Tank, Bruiser), Range, And Control. Each origin Archtype has a level of freeform from the other two types. The power pools are arranged in Tiers and tapping into the other origin Archtype's Power Tier takes longer than one's original Type. Lastly there are Hybrids (Most likely for gold memberships if that is the route I choose.), which do not worry about Tier restrictions. Hybrids are able to tap into each origin Type's Tier power pool at the same time. Despite being open to all powers pools, Hybrids have a power reduction.

Ride around and I'm gettin it.
               Since the destruction of that famous city, many strives have been taken in safety and technology.  An example of how those two have come together would be with public and personal transportation. Driving is now  more automated. Men and women no longer physically drive, instead operate a control panel.  In justice players can purchase all types of vehicles. These vehicles allow  players to travel great distances faster and more stylish, if you're into that sort of thing. Another bonus is, these vehicles can transport multiple players at once, and can be traded, sold, or simply given away or loaned to other players.

*NOTE*: Vehicles provide alternative to travel powers. Its also replaces things we were use to such as Ouro. Vehicles don't apply to just missions either. Why not drop new some SG members to ICONS for new uniforms :). Possession of vehicles will be represented by keys that can be placed in power tray for easy access.

Hero I'm home
                  Whether you RP or not, most players can appreciate a place to crash. Justice separates homes with SG headquarters, also not not limiting the player to just one. Homes work similar to vehicles. They can be fully customized, sold, traded, loaned. As the owner of the home, the player can grant access and certain permissions to other players. Plots come in a variety of ways from Penthouse loft to low scale urban housing apartment.

Uber groups?/Justice team (league)?
                   Whether you decide to save, destroy, or just sit around and party together, Supergroups are a must right? Accompanied with a group's HQ, the group will be able to do more than ever before. Inside an HQ, groups will be able to simulate events for practice, house their SG vehicles, search for teams, missions, create custom events, even imprison other NPC enemies. Similar to homes, groups won't be limited to one HQ but allowed two. Each HQ is capable of have multiple levels. Plots vary: Warehouse or  Corporate building.
                   
 
Other ideas:

               Counter ability: I pull inspiration for this idea from other games like Batman:Arkham City and Assassin's Creed, how you can counter attacks from foes. The interface of MMO's are a bit different, at least when one is trying to keep things similar to City of heroes. So I thought, why not make it a pool power of sorts or similar to how a brute or scrapper, etc has toggles for defense. Counter will work on scale or percentage like all other things, but adds a little fun and surprise to a fight when you counter a foe's attack.

                Fight style: Before I get into this I thought I would change one thing. I'm basing this next idea on a secondary idea of not having archtype. I want to rid the game of dividing players between control, melee, range, etc. Fight style is a secondary set of skills for combat. Its in a category separate from the power pool. Sometimes just having a power isn't enough. The character has to sometimes know how to fight. Possibly giving the character a martial art can improve his/her chances. The fighting pool unlike the power pool is a little less endurance costing. This could be helpful for those who's abilities are endurance draining. The fighting pool can keep you fighting while you regain endurance.

                Combo Tray: The combo tray is a new feature I thought up. Players will be given 5 trays to create different combos consisting of attacks from both the fight and power pool. Its an automated set, once clicked it will run the entire combo tray unless disrupted. Each tray will allow up to 7 or so attacks.


Let me know if I'm wasting my time and you wouldn't dream of playing anything like this. Its your choice.


 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 05:49:12 AM by crownarts »

Clave Dark 5

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 06:20:29 PM »
I haven't read every post in every section of these forums, but I think some people have kicked around the idea of making the "secret identity" an option in someway.  In COH, people did so with RP, if they were of a mind to, creating alternate costume slots of "street clothes", write-ups in their bios and whatnot.

For one of the new games we're working on..., hm, I'm not sure I would want to have to go through all those considerations just to create my new slinky stalker, bashing brute or... uh, controlling controller.  If for no other reason, not every hero has a secret identity or has to worry about relationships ("Me angry alien robot here to SMASH!" and yes I had one of those).

Then again, adding the option to have such things really affect the game and be a gaming consideration isn't at all a bad idea, for those who enjoy such things.  I know I often had much more info about a character in my head than I could have ever hoped to fit in the bio.

If nothing else, ertainly no harm in putting your ideas out here though, fire away! 
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Nadia Luma

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 06:35:26 PM »
I know all to well about RP a normal life and wearing street clothing. I think in many cases people don't do because its much easier not to. If something of that sort was regularly accessible to you, I feel more people would give it more of a go. In this Justice idea, while there is two sides but the choice is completely yours. If you've decided that you want to devote the entire time to being that angry smashing robot then its completely your choice. Still with this second part of the world it still gives your kicking and punching purpose, your not just doing it for the sake of doing it. Your doing it now because it affects others as well (good or Bad).

Nadia Luma

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 09:48:30 PM »
After sitting back and reflecting I think I was to consumed by my know idea of what Justice should be about. Yes I still feel like incorporating both sides is a big key to what Justice would be about. Still this is an Hero genre MMO, and its nothing without choices. What is Justice? Its what ever you Decide. In Justice you can be wipe what your character once was and become a symbol or be the one that strikes fear in hearts of the world. Its making that choice to kill instead of arrest. It all boils down to the choice of the player...not me. What is Justice? and what side of it are you on?

Justice is about choices.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2012, 05:13:00 PM »
I think you have good ideas. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the efforts towards making a successor game can really sustain a third option. Your best bet is to post these ideas on the forums of the two projects, and try to get them incorporated.

Of course, what you suggest is a much different game, and a much more involved one, or so it seems to me. Almost a Sims like world, where you get to play both hero and secret identities. If you can find the resources to back you up, and really go somewhere with it, I'm all for it. I just don't think it's going to be feasible right now.
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Nadia Luma

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2012, 08:22:46 PM »
As my resource go....Your probably right in terms of starting a third option seems less than likely. . I think we are passed that....I don't want to change the things we love. I think the other two projects only problem is that they holding on to COX. All I here is spiritual Successor stuff and with that there a fear of change. A new concept doesn't mean get rid of what we love. The world is more simulated meaning it is effected more by the actions of our villains and heroes. In COX we were really unimportant figures in a default world. The idea here is to become truly apart of the world. Your hero or Villain now makes choices that affects the world around them and others within your universe. I would love to combine ideas with the other two projects I think they both have great ideas as well....but I think they both will run into the same problem. The grind and repetitiveness will get tiresome.

avelworldcreator

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2012, 09:25:12 PM »
I think you are depending too much on the old posts on these forums for The Phoenix Project to characterize it correctly.  You may  also be latching onto those elements that MMOs all have, super hero one in particular, all have.

Unfortunately you haven't given enough detail about your project concept from which to compare and draw a conclusion.

And after reading your postings I'm going to have to ask if English (any variation) is not your original language?

Quoting with corrections (no offense or slight is intended - I used to be an adult education tutor for GED students):

"As my resource go....You're probably right in terms of starting that a third option seems less than likely. . I think we are past that....I don't want to change the things we love. I think the other two projects' only problem is that they holding on to CoX. All I hear is "Spiritual Successor" stuff and with that there is a fear of change. A new concept doesn't mean get rid of what we love. The world is more simulated, meaning it is effected more by the actions of our villains and heroes. In CoX we were really unimportant figures in a default world. The idea here is to become truly apart of the world. Your hero or Villain now makes choices that affects the world around them and others within your universe. I would love to combine ideas with the other two projects I think they both have great ideas as well....but I think they both will run into the same problem. The grind and repetitiveness will get tiresome.


There are logistical and technological issues with your idea. It has been proposed recently with The Phoenix Project.
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Nadia Luma

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2012, 09:50:26 PM »
English is my first language but I'm not writing this thinking someone would be searching this for perfect grammar. I do a fair amount of writing but here i'm not really proof reading this stuff. Getting back to my idea ....I said I didn't read every post and all the details of each projects. Its so much material that it would be a big task that I haven't got around to yet. When I say third option I'm not implying that game would be better. Its just my opinion on a different direction that may benefit both projects. I'm only one person so I don't have much....My material was thought up 2 days ago. I will add more as I get more feedback.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2012, 01:19:52 AM »
In public forums, when you make a proposal, good grammar and spelling is essential. It reflects that you are attentive to details and have an organized thought process. In those circumstances it is necessary to think that people would respond to irregularities of grammar and spelling.

 Many of the people on these fora have professional backgrounds and education.  An ongoing poll shows the median age for CoX players to be around 45.

I'm pushing and encouraging you to work out your concepts. I'm the COO of an existing game company that's already sponsoring The Phoenix Project.  I'm interested in what you have to say, and I'm giving you the needed guidance to express it better to others.
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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2012, 01:34:26 AM »
Good grammar/spelling is especially important if you're trying to present a product (or pitch an idea of a product, like the OP). I see posts like your OP (almost incomprehensible) and doubt for a second there could be any follow-through on your project even before we get to the 'I don't even know how to do this' part.
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Nadia Luma

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2012, 05:28:04 AM »
This whole thing started with a late night ramble. I didn't expect much attention or the focus on my grammar. I was merely expressing an idea and was no where near a complete thought. Which is why my post were so poorly written. I understand your point. I don't have much to present at this moment. I'll take some time to think up a more focused concept. A concept that I can truly pitch. I'll say in about two days. Any feedback is welcomed. I'm only one person.

Samuel Tow

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2012, 12:12:53 PM »
What makes Superman, Batman, Spider-man Legendary Heroes?

I don't know, because I don't want to play as any of those characters. Any game which forces me is unlikely to see much business from me. That's precisely why any reimagining of City of Heroes needs to be a community affair - because what was "good" about it is so subjective. I'm not a comic book fan. I've never been a comic book fan and I never will be. Not because comics are bad, simply for the same reason that I'm not a rap fan - I don't like the genre. City of Heroes was "inspired" by comic books, but it never really stuck to comic book conventions with any real consistency. It was as much sci-fi, fantasy, pulp fiction and crime drama as it was comic book, hence its very broad appeal for what would otherwise have been a very niche game.

None of the characters I had in City of Heroes - and I had over 50 - had secret identities. Hell, nearly all of them just used their real names as their super personae. My comment here is the same as it was in City of Heroes suggestions on the same nature - if you want secret identities, that's fine. But keep them out of MY face because I don't want to use them. Add them as an option, sure, but NOT as a central gameplay element. Easily the least favourite part of any super hero comic for me is the secret identity part, and if I can, I'd rather not deal with it. It's like making a "realistic" modern military shooter and making gun maintenance a central part of the game and the thing you do the majority of the time. Sure, it may be true to the realism of the subject matter, but I wouldn't play a game like that.

In general, when you start pulling out specific comic book characters and designing a game to reflect them directly, you're already doing it wrong as far as I'm concerned. You're making a game that's intricately specific to comic books, and that's not what many of us went to City of Heroes for. Any spiritual successor to the game needs to maintain at least that breadth of concept and theme.
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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 04:30:23 AM »
The world is more simulated meaning it is effected more by the actions of our villains and heroes. In COX we were really unimportant figures in a default world. The idea here is to become truly apart of the world. Your hero or Villain now makes choices that affects the world around them and others within your universe.

Based on this part of what you say, it sounds almost like you want something more like EVE, where the world is a giant sandbox, and the players create what they want to. I would suggest reading this article: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132877/the_icelandic_model_of_mmo_.php?print=1

Quote from: The Mittani
Sandbox-Based Endgame. The endgame is the difference between a game which crashes and burns shortly after launch, and a game which attracts a loyal following. Since linear content isn't an option for a studio without a mega-budget, you'll need to base your title's endgame around a sandbox.

This doesn't necessarily have to be a PvP sandbox such as EVE's; the sandbox can be cooperative, as seen in A Tale in the Desert. The sandbox is critical because it gives the players something to do to amuse themselves immediately after a minimalistic launch while revenue and new features are being developed.

I think a superhero game with a base world, with a lightly simulated economy, would be what you want. Allow players to choose powers, and let them loose in the world, to wreak havoc or stop havoc being wreaked on the economy. Open up the option for civilian (secret identity) paths, that players can participate in if they choose to do so. Make the way NPCs react to them dependent on their appearance, either by having NPCs react oddly when a spandex-clad superhero serves them beer because his / her secret identity is a bartender and he / she forgot to change costumes, or allow the player to select between hero / secret identity mode.

I'm just throwing a few ideas out there, but hopefully you see the gist of where I'm going with this. Much less a "go here, do this" style of gameplay, a more fully simulated world with sandbox options.

Now, to go EVE's route, you could allow players to rob banks, and then allow other players to try to stop them - PvP everywhere. But CoH players are vehemently opt-in PvP only, so perhaps something that involves NPCs being the antagonists more, and has players joining together to fight them. Not just bank robbery events every once in a while, but organizations which players can gain or lose reputation with, and even try to take over.

A sandbox superhero game would be pretty hard to plan, but if it was done right it would be amazing.

Also, everything Samuel Tow said is good.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 04:37:12 AM by Felderburg »
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Nadia Luma

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2012, 03:05:47 AM »
Thank you for that article that helped me a lot. After reading I'm starting get a better since of what I would like to see. Content as opposed to linear story line, I think is the better way to go. The Successor of COX needs CONTENT most of all. ( At least those familiar things that COX had that reminds of what we lose.) That helps people deal with any new features that may be added. I was thinking of a world that isn't just there to look nice. I envisioned a city that serves as a city, with most things having function, and reason. Those stores and shops in Atlas Park would have actual function. You can go in eat or whatever the case may be. Those places can also be rob, set on fire....things of that nature. Now I understand that some things won't appeal to everyone, but it can be there for those that does. Its like real life...there's a whole world around us, filled with things that appeal to us and don't. We pick and choose in most cases what we interact with. You can decided to only be figure of justice, here only to protect and serve. Or not. There will be others who enjoy trying to balance both sides of life. They will try to be that villain or hero, and have a normal life. What I would be interested in are the people who don't take the hero mantle, and decided to live a some what normal life. They could decide to be a police officer, using their special skills to save life.

Thanks again for the info and feedback everyone. I also thought of a mobile version. I always hated that I had to leave and go somewhere. Especially when things were getting good. To be mobile would be nice.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2012, 10:04:15 AM »
I updated my original post, check it out. Let me know what you think...Good or Bad.

Thank You..

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2012, 10:42:06 PM »
Well done! And I'd play something like that. You have a story concept and mechanic. The Phoenix Project is set up for alternate worlds if you were inclined. You would have a team already working on an engine and all and people who can help polish your concept.
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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2012, 02:25:47 AM »
Well done! And I'd play something like that. You have a story concept and mechanic. The Phoenix Project is set up for alternate worlds if you were inclined. You would have a team already working on an engine and all and people who can help polish your concept.

I would love some help. I placed the poll to see if I was headed in good direction. Until your post I wasn't sure.  I'll add a bit more tonight. Hopefully I can sway those on the fence and possibly lure in a few more. Thanks for the feedback, it's always wanted and needed.

If there's any ideas, please feel to share. If you hate or dislike it so far  let me know.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2012, 05:06:18 AM »
Original post slightly updated.

Nadia Luma

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2012, 06:38:43 AM »
For those that don't like the direction or just flat out hate it. Please tell me why. I know that I can't please everyone but I'd like to know. So that I can't make improvements to the concept to hopefully better suit you. The poll is good but feedback is the best way. So please, good or bad tell me how you feel about the concept.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2012, 07:23:39 AM »
I don't know, because I don't want to play as any of those characters.
Uhm, that wasn't an answer...

Quote
Any game which forces me is unlikely to see much business from me. That's precisely why any reimagining of City of Heroes needs to be a community affair - because what was "good" about it is so subjective. I'm not a comic book fan. I've never been a comic book fan and I never will be. Not because comics are bad, simply for the same reason that I'm not a rap fan - I don't like the genre. City of Heroes was "inspired" by comic books, but it never really stuck to comic book conventions with any real consistency. It was as much sci-fi, fantasy, pulp fiction and crime drama as it was comic book, hence its very broad appeal for what would otherwise have been a very niche game.


Don't comics cover all those genres anyways? What defines a "comic" genre?

Quote
None of the characters I had in City of Heroes - and I had over 50 - had secret identities. Hell, nearly all of them just used their real names as their super personae. My comment here is the same as it was in City of Heroes suggestions on the same nature - if you want secret identities, that's fine. But keep them out of MY face because I don't want to use them. Add them as an option, sure, but NOT as a central gameplay element. Easily the least favourite part of any super hero comic for me is the secret identity part, and if I can, I'd rather not deal with it. It's like making a "realistic" modern military shooter and making gun maintenance a central part of the game and the thing you do the majority of the time. Sure, it may be true to the realism of the subject matter, but I wouldn't play a game like that.

Not all supers have secret identities either, mostly DC.

Quote
In general, when you start pulling out specific comic book characters and designing a game to reflect them directly, you're already doing it wrong as far as I'm concerned. You're making a game that's intricately specific to comic books, and that's not what many of us went to City of Heroes for. Any spiritual successor to the game needs to maintain at least that breadth of concept and theme.
I dunno, I went to CoH for the "comic" aspect of being a superhero. But I agree that making it around a certain guy is bad. Designing sets and such around certain characters? Go for it.

Nadia Luma

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2012, 08:16:00 AM »
Quote
Not all supers have secret identities either, mostly DC.
I dunno, I went to CoH for the "comic" aspect of being a superhero. But I agree that making it around a certain guy is bad. Designing sets and such around certain characters? Go for it.

In the beginning the idea wasn't based on those characters I mentioned. It was part of a idea to give a broader hero style mmo. Now I see that doesn't represent all or many heroes. Some like mentioned, don't have secret identities. So I decided that being able to choose would better fit. Which carried over to basing more of the gameplay around choices, which is something they do.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2012, 05:41:29 AM »
At this point I feel like I've hit a wall. I'm not sure where else to go. I'm trying to walk a fair line between familiarization and innovation (In my opinion). Most people who read this post will be on the fence for my concept. Most will be waiting on a more sound idea. If I haven't mentioned it yet, right now just take it as it will be as you remember it. No need to go deep into explaining what you already know, at least not right now. Its only me, until I get some more help. The the help I being used for the other two projects. I'm working on dropping the Plan Z, making Justice a stand alone project. I've decided to use my own finances once I've shuffled things around. Just know that I am dedicated to seeing this through.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2012, 06:30:19 AM »
Original post Slightly updated...

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2012, 07:34:23 AM »
Just holler our way if you need any support.
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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2012, 11:02:42 PM »
I've been thinking the last few days.  Freeform or archetype? I think this part is very important. While playing Coh, I was always thinking about mixing powerset to better suit my toon. Then CO let you do it with freeform. Still it didn't feel right....I mean I enjoyed the  play style and all...but now the construct was gone. No more need for teams... for the most part. I felt alone....so how do I decide? How do find a middle ground? I want the choice of more freedom when selecting powers but I don't want to lose the greatness of teaming.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2012, 02:29:20 AM »
Two things I'd be picky with...

One, the Genesis Strain. Good idea but pelase don't pigeon whole our characters into that plot point because some of us don't even make humans as characters. Also, magic really shouldn't be tied to DNA. Keep it like Pandora's Box was in CoH. Nowhere in CoH did it state our characters HAD to have gotten powers because of the box opening, but it was there as an overall explanation to the hero population surge.

Two, Countering/Blocking. I HATE blocking in CO. It is not something I want to worry about in order to utilize other abilities. The way I interpret how it was presented here, as a passive with surprise chance built in, good. But please, don't make me worry about needing to block constantly. That belongs in fighting games, not an MMO and the chief reason I will jump off CO when something better comes along.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2012, 09:59:54 AM »
Two things I'd be picky with...

One, the Genesis Strain. Good idea but pelase don't pigeon whole our characters into that plot point because some of us don't even make humans as characters. Also, magic really shouldn't be tied to DNA. Keep it like Pandora's Box was in CoH. Nowhere in CoH did it state our characters HAD to have gotten powers because of the box opening, but it was there as an overall explanation to the hero population surge.

Two, Countering/Blocking. I HATE blocking in CO. It is not something I want to worry about in order to utilize other abilities. The way I interpret how it was presented here, as a passive with surprise chance built in, good. But please, don't make me worry about needing to block constantly. That belongs in fighting games, not an MMO and the chief reason I will jump off CO when something better comes along.

You are right in both responses. The Genesis Strain is just the reason for the sudden change. Since the surge of genesis the world change. Technology, medicine, etc......you dont have to have the genesis strain to be effected by it because the world has. Its how you figured it should be.

There is no blocking.....its just as you described it. I see it as a toggle or cast that is subject to chance more or less. Once applied depending on certain circumstances you will counter or block. It just has an animation for it.

I think we are on the same page. Great post... Thanks for the response.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2013, 12:24:42 AM »
On an off note, the Shield Powerset should have a block :p

On a related one concerning freeform vs AT:

In the MarvelD20 I am making (and posted in this part of the forum) the power selection is all freeform, but separated into categories similar to the CoH sets such as Electricty: Melee/Range/Defense, etc. However, there are still Archetypes in the system and they can all get the same powers. The trick is the incentives and costs of said powers.

All but 1 of the 7 archetypes have a category they can choose as their primary (lets them get 1 free power at the start from the selected set, as well as unlock a tier4 power a good deal earlier in that set), but at the cost of another category having x2 the cost to buy into. For example, the Adept Archetype (think blasters and corruptors mixed) can choose Ranged sets as primary powers, but have to pay double for any defensive powers. While the double cost may be a tad harsh, it is also balanced by the incentive of the Adept to pick up ranged powers through their AT perks (+damage on Power attacks (energy blast, etc), +range, and all that) that stacks with the little bonuses the primary set gives.

The Metahuman (the 1 exception) does not get primaries or double costs, but also has no real AT perks of their own, so they serve as a real "base line".

Hopefully this is some food for thought?

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2013, 10:35:19 PM »
On an off note, the Shield Powerset should have a block :p

On a related one concerning freeform vs AT:

In the MarvelD20 I am making (and posted in this part of the forum) the power selection is all freeform, but separated into categories similar to the CoH sets such as Electricty: Melee/Range/Defense, etc. However, there are still Archetypes in the system and they can all get the same powers. The trick is the incentives and costs of said powers.

All but 1 of the 7 archetypes have a category they can choose as their primary (lets them get 1 free power at the start from the selected set, as well as unlock a tier4 power a good deal earlier in that set), but at the cost of another category having x2 the cost to buy into. For example, the Adept Archetype (think blasters and corruptors mixed) can choose Ranged sets as primary powers, but have to pay double for any defensive powers. While the double cost may be a tad harsh, it is also balanced by the incentive of the Adept to pick up ranged powers through their AT perks (+damage on Power attacks (energy blast, etc), +range, and all that) that stacks with the little bonuses the primary set gives.

The Metahuman (the 1 exception) does not get primaries or double costs, but also has no real AT perks of their own, so they serve as a real "base line".

Hopefully this is some food for thought?

That's interesting...although I'm not sure If I'm going to go that route. Thats not to say I won't but right now I'm still trying to figure a to give a more freeform, while also providing the similar team structure we're use to (COH).

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2013, 07:03:30 PM »
You might want to mention in the OP that is has been edited, so as not to confuse people who come in later.

I think your contemplation of teaming is interesting. In my opinion, it's not the powers or abilities of a character that force teaming, it's other incentives. And you don't want to force people to team just because they picked a character that can't solo very well.

So what incentives make people want to team? Yes, giving each archetype (or whatever) costs helps, but then you may get people complaining: "My empathy defender can't solo, and no one else wants to team," or something like that. And people who want to solo should be able to, and not be forced to team because no character type is able to solo. The question becomes how you give players incentives to team, while not eliminating content for those that want to solo. Let's look at EVE and STO. In EVE, the "real" end game content can't be played solo - you need to be in a Corp., and an alliance, to be able to get the real end game experience. In STO, you can make a single player fleet, but it becomes so cost-prohibitive to actually maintain the base for one person that it effectively gates the fleet-based content to fleets with many people.

I guess what I'm getting at here is this: how much do you want to give players who team, and form SGs, and how much do you want to limit solo players?
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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2013, 07:17:21 PM »
I like the idea, crownarts and it sounds good.

But as usual I'll wait and see. There are many games which looks good in concept and story but I couldnt find enjoyment in the. Other end, the game looked meh, and was like a parody, and goofy animation style but I had the time of my life in it, currently playing one right now actually.

I think you should go for it. It's not like there are many super hero themed games out there to begin with and a little more choices would be lovely. There are a bunch of fantasy based ones, many started off like this, just an idea being thrown around on a forum board or online, and a few ended up gaining near and or over millions of players.

If there is any better time for more super her games it would be this time now before the big dogs get their heads out of the initate WoW mode and actually start seriously entering the fray. You can be the next big dog as the opportunity is there it up to you to take it. And we can all look back and say, "Hey I remember when that game was a mere idea on a forum where the grammar mistakes were pointed out and the idea was refined. I was there."

The opportunity is there, take it my man. It may never come again.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2013, 07:37:19 AM »
You might want to mention in the OP that is has been edited, so as not to confuse people who come in later.

I think your contemplation of teaming is interesting. In my opinion, it's not the powers or abilities of a character that force teaming, it's other incentives. And you don't want to force people to team just because they picked a character that can't solo very well.

So what incentives make people want to team? Yes, giving each archetype (or whatever) costs helps, but then you may get people complaining: "My empathy defender can't solo, and no one else wants to team," or something like that. And people who want to solo should be able to, and not be forced to team because no character type is able to solo. The question becomes how you give players incentives to team, while not eliminating content for those that want to solo. Let's look at EVE and STO. In EVE, the "real" end game content can't be played solo - you need to be in a Corp., and an alliance, to be able to get the real end game experience. In STO, you can make a single player fleet, but it becomes so cost-prohibitive to actually maintain the base for one person that it effectively gates the fleet-based content to fleets with many people.

I guess what I'm getting at here is this: how much do you want to give players who team, and form SGs, and how much do you want to limit solo players?

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not going to go into the successor talk anymore. I think there's been enough of that, as I've decided to be a stand alone concept now. I understand where you're coming from. "Different stokes and all for different folks"...Some people like to solo and others don't. Still I don't think Characters that are unable to solo are any less appealing than one that is able. (Blasters for example)....The one thing I believe about MMORPGs that we come here to play together...Its the one thing I believe in and I won't stray from that idea. It may be poor taste to some but its the one idea that I feel strongly about. This doesn't mean I would as far as not allow you the option to do so...Since this game is about options and choices I think I'd be contradicting myself. My problem is finding that line that pleases everyone.....I know its impossible tasks but i think its the right/Wise choice to give it a true effort. I'm only one person and thats the one thing I know that I can do...and that's think. My grammar is not the best but I am a creative thinker and writer. I normally have a partner, who assist when I begin my grammar error filled rambles but she's unavailable at the moment. 

See I'm beginning to ramble...

The question is, how to give people something similar to freeform yet still provide structure for teaming?

(Thanks I will put its been edited several times in my OP)

Quote
I like the idea, crownarts and it sounds good.

But as usual I'll wait and see. There are many games which looks good in concept and story but I couldnt find enjoyment in the. Other end, the game looked meh, and was like a parody, and goofy animation style but I had the time of my life in it, currently playing one right now actually.

I think you should go for it. It's not like there are many super hero themed games out there to begin with and a little more choices would be lovely. There are a bunch of fantasy based ones, many started off like this, just an idea being thrown around on a forum board or online, and a few ended up gaining near and or over millions of players.

If there is any better time for more super her games it would be this time now before the big dogs get their heads out of the initate WoW mode and actually start seriously entering the fray. You can be the next big dog as the opportunity is there it up to you to take it. And we can all look back and say, "Hey I remember when that game was a mere idea on a forum where the grammar mistakes were pointed out and the idea was refined. I was there."

The opportunity is there, take it my man. It may never come again.

Truly thank you for the post...very inspiring. I promise to give this my all and my best effort to see it through. All I ask in return is for more feedback. I would surprise you, with just a little more feedback......I can create something truly grand.

Thanks again.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2013, 01:37:19 AM »
Hello everyone I'm Shen-Dragon. Shen for short i may have an answer too our problem very soon i and a friend of mine will have the funds too start up our own mmorpg and we plan on makeing a even better one then city!  City was my favorite but I'm hopeful the one we get started will be even better we will have 4million to put into it's start up please contacte if interested !:).

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2013, 04:32:22 AM »
Uh, huh. Shen, you seem to be posting this same exact post all over the place. VV sort of warned us of this whole rich friend/I'm rich situation coming up. I'm not saying this is THAT scenario, but if you're legit a stand alone post of your own, in the appropriate area of the forum, would be enough. Right now it looks suspicious.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2013, 05:09:48 AM »
Well anyways would like to hear from you guys on positives and negatives in your opinions on coh so please mail me.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2013, 07:19:07 AM »
Seems like a solid foundation to work from. Hope you pull it off :)

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2013, 07:23:54 AM »
Well anyways would like to hear from you guys on positives and negatives in your opinions on coh so please mail me.

Well I don't know anything about. I'm trying to create a concept of my own. I'm not sure how posting here about you're very own project would help me. I'm looking for feedback to help further my own idea. Stating the amount you have only makes me weary if you're for real. I would think with that amount of money you wouldn't need much from me or most people here for that matter but I could be wrong....that's just my opinion.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2013, 12:50:06 PM »
Feedback and opinions are always useful Im a part of this community as well I know what I enjoyed about coh but would like to know what you guys enjoyed also anything you may of felt could of used improvement in the game.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2013, 09:39:49 PM »
well there are over 22,000 multimillionaires in the US alone. So there is a chance that some people know one or two or are one themselves.

True, as VV said, it can be a hoax but dont hope that if just because someone mention they have a decent amount of cash and or starting up something with that cash, it is considered automatic hoax because she said so. In reality, anybody on here can be a hoax themselves including VV. For all I know, she may not have as much if any inside information. By definition she is doing exactly what she described to watch out for minues the millions of dollars. But she seems legit. And until further information comes out, Shen seems legit too just in the wrong sections of the forum which can happen regardless of how much money you have available.

But to Shen, have at it man. If you can start one up, go for it. And if you have 4 million already, then you are on your way already, especially if you raised that amount from various sources. I'll be emailing you soon, probably later tonight or tomorrow on the good, the bad, the ugly, from my view.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2013, 09:58:53 PM »
Even though I work for the Phoenix Project version of Plan Z, I have been trying to advertise this one exists where I can. I hope it's been a help.
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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2013, 07:19:25 AM »
Even though I work for the Phoenix Project version of Plan Z, I have been trying to advertise this one exists where I can. I hope it's been a help.

That's I appreciate that. I plan to update my post tomorrow night.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2013, 05:50:17 AM »
Original Post has been updated...Let me know what you think. Thank you.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2013, 07:54:57 AM »
I also had another idea but not sure if I want to include it into my original post just yet. I still want to share it regardless if its been completely thought out. I thought about connecting Justice outside of the game. This could be done through social media (Facebook)....I don't mean you can check your facebook while playing (unless there's an interest in that.). What I mean is.... from outside a game be able to chat with friends playing the game. You can send and receive photos, msgs without being in the game. I came up with this idea thinking about all the friends that have to work, having computer or personal issues and are unable play. This idea can at least give them a chance to be apart of the game even though they are away for whatever reason.


It doesn't have to be facebook...It can be an App you can download to your home computer or phone. Using the same log in as the game and always be part of the game.

Let me know what you all think. I'll include it if there's an interest in this idea.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2013, 04:26:42 PM »
The one thing I believe about MMORPGs that we come here to play together...Its the one thing I believe in and I won't stray from that idea. It may be poor taste to some but its the one idea that I feel strongly about. This doesn't mean I would as far as not allow you the option to do so...Since this game is about options and choices I think I'd be contradicting myself. My problem is finding that line that pleases everyone.....

You won't be able to please everyone consistently. Because you say you believe MMOs are about teaming, it seems to me you will likely make the choice to have content that requires groups of people, whether it's a "boss raid" style encounter or sweet bases for supergroups. And that's fine; you just need to recognize that somewhere along the way a choice will have to be made about what sorts of things solo players will or will not have access to.

That being said.....

The question is, how to give people something similar to freeform yet still provide structure for teaming?

I don't think that freeform and teaming are mutually exclusive. Your experience is likely being colored by Champions Online, which by some accounts doesn't have a very good freeform system. In STO for example, there is very little in the way of "freeform" character building, but teaming only happens because Cryptic artificially puts it in. If they didn't gate content behind fleet starbases, or multiplayer queues, there would be rampant soloing - as there was before they added content that required teams and groups. This had nothing to do with the way characters were built, and everything to do with the fact that content was so easy, even on STO's hard difficulty, that people didn't need to team, and there wasn't really any incentive to do so. What I'm getting at here is that you should treat how you build characters and how you create content somewhat separately - one does not rely on the other. Freeform is doable without limiting teaming, if you create content that encourages or even requires teaming.

In fact, it may be better to allow characters to solo with ease. Back to STO: I'm not saying that people didn't team, or make fleets, before it was required. There certainly exists a large amount of people who play MMOs for just the reasons you stated above: to play together. Those people will make teams and supergroups no matter what. But by allowing characters the ability to solo, you also keep more of the solo players happy, until they come up against content that they can't do alone.

And that's where the real decision must be made. Because there will always be players that like to solo, regardless of what type of character they will make. Chances are, they'll also want to experience everything the game has to offer... and they might be annoyed when a mission has, for example, two glowies that need to be clicked simultaneously, or when a boss needs 10 people to take it down, or when the best starships require a fleet to acquire. So do you want to just sort of encourage teaming, or straight up require it?

Still I don't think Characters that are unable to solo are any less appealing than one that is able. (Blasters for example)...

I am honestly not sure what you're trying to say about blasters. Could you please clarify?



Note: I suspect STO also has a great many solo players because it's an existing IP; for many players, Star Trek was the draw, and it is their first MMO. Some of them will no doubt end up enjoy teaming, but others just want to experience Trek, and all the being the badass solo captain of a starship that that implies.
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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2013, 05:10:36 PM »
Quote
You won't be able to please everyone consistently. Because you say you believe MMOs are about teaming, it seems to me you will likely make the choice to have content that requires groups of people, whether it's a "boss raid" style encounter or sweet bases for supergroups. And that's fine; you just need to recognize that somewhere along the way a choice will have to be made about what sorts of things solo players will or will not have access to.

I understand what you're saying. I haven't quite tackled how to fine a balance. I do believe these games are created for teaming, still like I said I don't wan't to scare off players that solo. If I can't find a balance, a decision will have to be made. Which is why I'm here looking for feedback.

Quote
I am honestly not sure what you're trying to say about blasters. Could you please clarify?

What I mean is, Coh was more based around teaming....not saying that soloing wasn't possible but types like blasters were not strong in that department. Despite that, people still decided to choose them. They were still appealing even though they aren't good solo'ers.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2013, 06:20:11 PM »
I had several blasters and never had much problem soloing. For me, until they were buffed, Defenders were the tough soloing archetype. Heck, my main blaster solo'd EB versions of the Praetorians in the PI arcs.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2013, 04:15:43 AM »
I'm not saying that Blaster aren't solo-able...For the those I've met, who played as Blaster weren't that good at soloing. Anyways, the point that I was trying to make was, regardless of a type's solo-bility people still enjoy playing with them.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2013, 05:59:20 AM »
Right now as fresh ideas go, I'm all out.  If there is anything I missed that someone wants me to add or address please let me know.

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2013, 12:26:53 PM »
Just my 2 cents.  If I can't play a superhero mmo solo, then I won't play it, needless to say I'm not one who likes to team.  I solo'd 5 scrappers, 4 brutes, 2 doms, and 4 blasters to 50 solo.  My main server was Infinity.  The only time I ever teamed was when my son was actively playing.  So, yes I will play and sub if your game allows a full level 1 - 50 solo play.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!  Infinity Server...

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2013, 11:16:46 PM »
soooo I read a bit on the replys but didn't see this question being asked....will it have a City of Villain aspect to it? I am rather fond of all my 30+ villains :3

also will there be  a Peacebringer-type hero? that was the only hero I had alot of fun with. just asking

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Re: Plan Z: Justice (A third option)
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2013, 05:58:26 AM »
soooo I read a bit on the replys but didn't see this question being asked....will it have a City of Villain aspect to it? I am rather fond of all my 30+ villains :3

also will there be  a Peacebringer-type hero? that was the only hero I had alot of fun with. just asking

Yes it would have both sides....Actually I want to go along side of a system where there really isn't sides. Right and wrong is subjective. You may have to do bad things for right reason or vice versa if there is one. Justice is about choices.

And to add to the person before you. Yes you can solo all the way through from initial level to cap....but like I said I believe these games are for those that want to play with others so there will be a lot of details gear to make that a great experience. Not to say that the rest won't be but I'd hope people would enjoy everything Justice has to offer.