Plan Z: General > Plan Z: General Discussion
TPP's and H&V's existence
Mister Bison:
Cross-posting everywhere back to here because having 5 threads for this single topic is insanity.
Now unless any "Plan Z" leader says the contrary, the main difference between "The Phoenix Project" and "Heroes & Villain" is actually a difference in the freedom taken toward their common goal. It can or cannot be the sole reason, but for the players, that's all that matter.
As stated numerous times now, both will create a spiritual successor to the game we loved (I suggest we stop refering to it by its name for legal reason, unless all "Plan Z"s will be doomed). It's just that "H&V" will try to provide the same gameplay and systems, just not the same IP, while "TPP" will try to provide the same feel, inventing new gameplay and systems on the way.
Both endeavours make perfect sense, it's just a matter of opinion. As you can see, the difference is in "gameplay and systems", all the rest is (or could be) the same: storylines, 3D models, level design... while the rules, etc. will differ between the games.
I think both are a great idea. In doing something new, you risk doing worse. But you also risk doing better. In doing the same thing you're the successor to, you risk the wrath of NCSoft. But any successor will. Every player has a different idea of what to think of the previous gameplay: "it was perfect !" or "it was horrible !" or "oh, the shiny costumes !". Every and any idea is going to appeal to players, simply because the game is not here anymore.
It's too soon to give names. The choice behind "H&V" gives itself no freedom, what it'll be is decided, what there'll be inside is still up in the air, but as in any game. Golden Girl did something courageous, but the Project Phoenix Committee did too. Both stood up to their convictions, their visions, which could potentially affect the other, so the "split" happened. I put quoting marks because it's just a split name, ressources can be shared, but if a project fails, so should not the other. As both have different "legal" chances.
I can't force anybody to anything, but I would encourage, to those who do because those in charge are maybe hand-bound, to donate and give their work and time to both and every other projects to come. There is no need to "give" to only one of them, and anyway, you can an should (for your IP's sake) only "share" with them. We are all in the same boat, and every single person that reads this is entitled to his opinion and say in the upcoming game, or games.
Edit one: Golden Girl issued a press release, confirming the differences in gameplay from CoH will be details (I assume long-standing bugs and inconsistencies). The same thing is expected from TPP in a short manner.
Edit two: H&V will focus on the Tech aspects first. They have a small tentative business plan in the mean time. So no lore team is up while the tech is not sorted out, Golden Girl assumes the sole Lore position.
emu265:
I am 100% supportive of cooperation between the two projects. I am paranoid about a fracturing of the community, and anything to prevent that from happening gets a pass in my book. However. Sharing work simply for the sake of sharing can get really dangerous, really fast. Eventually, someone is going to get shafted. Please, please, please be careful and be sure to trust one another. Everyone involved in either project needs to work to make sure there are no hard feelings between the two.
Captain Electric:
--- Quote from: emu265 on December 04, 2012, 08:32:04 AM ---I am 100% supportive of cooperation between the two projects. I am paranoid about a fracturing of the community, and anything to prevent that from happening gets a pass in my book.
--- End quote ---
Ideally, yes; but please take a moment to consider why some of us are just as paranoid about being able to see any progress via a completely incompatible team. There is a reason why studios don't just hire everyone who comes in wanting to write, draw, or code for them.
Mercedes Lackey made an excellent and short point in this regard. It's worth reading. It may make you less paranoid about seeing the project split in two, and more concerned about how things would go if everyone stayed on the same team:
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,6536.msg83501.html#msg83501
Also bear in mind, there were teams within Paragon Studios who barely ever spoke to each other. Thinking of this as a fracture of the entire community is just not accurate. I've only seen one poster say "I'm out of here" throughout all of this, and they weren't even a member of either project. It was a forum poster. Who later retracted their statement and is still posting around. :P
Battle Ant:
I have no problem with a little healthy competition. I just think people are butthurt because their version of "lore" isn't being used. I've seen evidence of this in both camps since the idea to make a game was brought up. There is too much emphasis on trying to be " the spiritual successor to CoH".
Lore is fluff..PERIOD. It doesn't matter if Aliens came to Earth and impregnated penguins or a Jell-o factory explodes and gave everyone superpowers. Look at Stan Lee. He did not invent the Marvel Universe and put heroes in it, he started with a few heroes and the universe formed from it.
My point is this: K.I.S.S - Keep it simple stupid. If you want to make a hero game, then start with the basics: A hero fights a villain. As that hero gains experience, the villains get tougher. Make the game first and then let the lore form from that. I realize that role playing is important to some people, but it is not important to everyone. The best lore comes from the player's imagination and not from some predetermined source.
emu265:
--- Quote from: Captain Electric on December 04, 2012, 08:47:27 AM ---Ideally, yes; but please take a moment to consider why some of us are just as paranoid about being able to see any progress via a completely incompatible team. There is a reason why studios don't just hire everyone who comes in wanting to write, draw, or code for them.
Mercedes Lackey made an excellent and short point in this regard. It's worth reading. It may make you less paranoid about seeing the project split in two, and more concerned about how things would go if everyone stayed on the same team:
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,6536.msg83501.html#msg83501
Also bear in mind, there were teams within Paragon Studios who barely ever spoke to each other. Thinking of this as a fracture of the entire community is just not accurate. I've only seen one poster say "I'm out of here" throughout all of this, and they weren't even a member of either project. It was a forum poster. Who later retracted their statement and is still posting around. :P
--- End quote ---
I suppose I didn't express my feelings accurately enough. I understand the necessity of the divided effort, especially because, according to Tony, there were some hard feelings at one point. I am only trying to caution against hard feelings between two teams, because that is where a crack becomes a fissure. I am not proposing the teams get back together. I would just like them to get along, which may prove challenging if there is shared work.
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