Author Topic: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.  (Read 333400 times)

Tacitala

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 157
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #800 on: January 13, 2014, 04:34:16 PM »
Sounds like a fun thing for CoH players to do...spam their email box with "Hey there's a private server here" emails leading to shock sites and Rick-rolling.

I'm pretty sure they have some sort of filter that marks anything to do with CoH as spam by now.  :P
"And I, of course, am innocent of all but malice."
- Princess Fiona of Amber

Felderburg

  • Ask me how I got this title!
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,615
  • Personal text? What's that?
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #801 on: January 13, 2014, 05:21:51 PM »
As far as New Voyages goes, some of the actors actually appeared in the new Star Trek movies. CBS / Paramount have a standing policy that as long as no money is made off of fan productions, they're fine (with appropriate disclaimers that Star Trek is owned by them, etc. etc.). Given that so many fan fiction tropes (Mary Sue, slash, for example) developed from Star Trek fan fiction, and the fervor of the fan base, this is a sensible policy.

NCSoft has demonstrated that they have no such policy, with their shut down of other games' servers. Maybe attitudes have changed, but even if personal attitudes are different, it would probably look bad if they allowed a CoH server, when they have previously shut down Tabula Rasa et al.
I used CIT before they even joined the Titan network! But then I left for a long ol' time, and came back. Now I edit the wiki.

I'm working on sorting the Lore AMAs so that questions are easily found and linked: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted Tell me what you think!

Pinnacle: The only server that faceplants before a fight! Member of the Pinnacle RP Congress (People's Elf of the CCCP); formerly @The Holy Flame

OzonePrime

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 376
  • Never Give Up! Never Surrender!
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #802 on: January 13, 2014, 07:18:45 PM »
I find your suggestion to be despicable and thoroughly dishonest.

So, is there perhaps a spam service I could contact to start doing this for me?   ;)
Too funny!

Harpospoke

  • New Efforts # 4,000!
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 608
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #803 on: January 22, 2014, 11:37:07 PM »
I'm pretty sure they have some sort of filter that marks anything to do with CoH as spam by now.  :P
Even better if true.   That would take care of any tattle-tales trying to alert them to the bad-ole CoH players playing the game again.  :)

Tahquitz

  • Titan Staff
  • Elite Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,859
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #804 on: January 23, 2014, 12:50:45 AM »
Retracted.
"Work is love made visible." -- Khalil Gibran

RockLeeXIII

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #805 on: February 14, 2014, 08:38:35 AM »
Greetings all ...

It's been some time since i popped into the site and was wondering how the private server for CoH was going ...

I see this topic has grown a lot however the last post was in jan ...

thanks in advance.

FlyingCarcass

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 264
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #806 on: February 14, 2014, 07:57:17 PM »
Even better if true.   That would take care of any tattle-tales trying to alert them to the bad-ole CoH players playing the game again.  :)

Perhaps, though the choir of Dimensionless may tip 'em off.  :P

Arcana

  • Sultaness of Stats
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,672
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #807 on: February 20, 2014, 08:21:19 PM »
In fact to all you saying "Well NCSoft is just handing us the client! It's clearly free to use!"
If memory serves, the EULA for City of Heroes specified that the game client was licensed to players, and technically speaking we are no longer entitled to have it or use it any more.  I'm unaware of anyone actually being sued for having or using a dead game client before, and I don't think anyone (even NCSoft) would attempt to go after all the former City of Heroes players and force them to delete their game clients, but its not true that NCSoft just handed out the client "for free."  It wasn't, in the legal sense, free to use for any purpose in perpetuity.

Having said that, its important to recognize a critical distinction between NCSoft going after dead client modders (i.e. Icon) and going after reverse engineered server devs.  In the first case, absolutely no one cares and NCSoft has no real reason to go after such people generally.  But in the second case, they could decide to go after those people purely on principle.  Some legal eagle with idle billable time may decide that its important not to set the precedent that NCSoft will look the other way on private servers, even if its for a game they no longer care about.  That means the probability of NCSoft going after client-modders is effectively zero, but the odds of them going after private server devs is not zero.  Its not high, but not zero.  Remember: it costs in-house counsel practically nothing to pursue that, because those guys get paid whether they work or not.

Graydar

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #808 on: February 20, 2014, 10:16:09 PM »
Screw your CoH server software! I'll make my own! With blackjack! And hookers!

Actually, forget the blackjack!..

Ahh, forget the whole thing.

Ohioknight

  • Celebrating Columbus Day
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 736
  • 65 years old
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #809 on: February 20, 2014, 11:46:03 PM »
If memory serves, the EULA for City of Heroes specified that the game client was licensed to players, and technically speaking we are no longer entitled to have it or use it any more. 

As I recall, a number of people have noted that NCSoft distributed the game publicly in a manner that allowed people to download and use the client without agreeing to the EULA -- in effect publishing the software without condition.  It would make for a strange court case.
"Wow, a fat, sarcastic, Star Trek fan, you must be a devil with the ladies"

Arcana

  • Sultaness of Stats
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,672
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #810 on: February 21, 2014, 07:15:34 PM »
As I recall, a number of people have noted that NCSoft distributed the game publicly in a manner that allowed people to download and use the client without agreeing to the EULA -- in effect publishing the software without condition.  It would make for a strange court case.
They eventually updated the client to include a button where you could view the EULA from within the client, and its uncharted legal territory to claim that while one knows there is a EULA and its easy to read someone decided explicitly not to read it so they could claim they didn't know they were violating it when they were using the software.

The EULA is in effect a contract, and contract law is full of caveats that state the *mechanics* of executing a contract are normally considered to be presumptive *evidence* the contract exists, but not technically *mandatory* for a legally binding contract to exist.  A legally binding contract exists essentially when both parties act in a manner consistent with the contract existing.  That's why there exists such a thing as an oral contract, where there is no paper at all.  Its difficult to sometimes *prove* it exists, but if you can prove that person A and person B both agreed to contract terms and were both aware they were entering into a contract, then the contract exists even without any signed piece of paper.

If you know the game client requires agreeing to the EULA as a person knowledgeable in how game software generally works and how NCSoft's software works in particular, and you use it knowing a EULA exists, the legal argument could be made that launching the client presumes you agree to adhere to the terms of the EULA.  Courts generally frown on people willfully attempting to exploit ambiguous technicalities in the law.  If you didn't know there was an EULA, that would be one thing.  Knowing and willfully ignoring it will not impress the court.

Ohioknight

  • Celebrating Columbus Day
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 736
  • 65 years old
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #811 on: February 22, 2014, 03:32:13 AM »
They eventually updated the client to include a button where you could view the EULA from within the client, and its uncharted legal territory to claim that while one knows there is a EULA and its easy to read someone decided explicitly not to read it so they could claim they didn't know they were violating it when they were using the software.

The EULA is in effect a contract, and contract law is full of caveats that state the *mechanics* of executing a contract are normally considered to be presumptive *evidence* the contract exists, but not technically *mandatory* for a legally binding contract to exist.  A legally binding contract exists essentially when both parties act in a manner consistent with the contract existing.  That's why there exists such a thing as an oral contract, where there is no paper at all.  Its difficult to sometimes *prove* it exists, but if you can prove that person A and person B both agreed to contract terms and were both aware they were entering into a contract, then the contract exists even without any signed piece of paper.

If you know the game client requires agreeing to the EULA as a person knowledgeable in how game software generally works and how NCSoft's software works in particular, and you use it knowing a EULA exists, the legal argument could be made that launching the client presumes you agree to adhere to the terms of the EULA.  Courts generally frown on people willfully attempting to exploit ambiguous technicalities in the law.  If you didn't know there was an EULA, that would be one thing.  Knowing and willfully ignoring it will not impress the court.

But very clearly, the purpose of the EULA was to enable and support the playing of the game service that was being offered and ensure subscription -- there is no indication whatsoever that applications of the freely distributed client software (once resident on a user's system) beyond the subscription service (applications such as ICON) were even contemplated.  I would think it could be quite risky to try to get a court to tell people not to use the software you gave them... the court might reasonably, actually consider the question of "why" -- as in "who is harmed"?

I'm also not finding the EULA in the client -- where is this feature to view the EULA from within the client?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 03:39:01 AM by Ohioknight »
"Wow, a fat, sarcastic, Star Trek fan, you must be a devil with the ladies"

Codewalker

  • Hero of the City
  • Titan Network Admin
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,740
  • Moar Dots!
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #812 on: February 22, 2014, 04:24:41 AM »
I'm also not finding the EULA in the client -- where is this feature to view the EULA from within the client?

Somewhat ironically, when they moved it from the launcher they put it after a successful login but before server selection. So it is currently impossible to view the EULA from the game client as it requires a functional server to do so.

dwturducken

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,152
  • Now available in stereo
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #813 on: February 22, 2014, 11:03:52 PM »
Somewhat ironically, when they moved it from the launcher they put it after a successful login but before server selection. So it is currently impossible to view the EULA from the game client as it requires a functional server to do so.

Problem solved! :D
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

LadyVamp

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #814 on: February 24, 2014, 02:38:22 AM »
Problem solved! :D

Maybe not.  Paragon wiki has copies with several revisions including sept 2011.

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/EULA
No Surrender!

TriNitroToluene

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 47
  • Triumph Server....the few, the proud, the pantless
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #815 on: February 24, 2014, 03:12:22 AM »
Quote
Paragon wiki has copies with several revisions including sept 2011.

A quick page deletion would take care of that


Felderburg

  • Ask me how I got this title!
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,615
  • Personal text? What's that?
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #816 on: February 24, 2014, 04:55:03 AM »
I think the key thing to do is make sure whoever uploads or uses or whatever with any sort of emulator first is someone who actually has no idea about the EULA...

Although it seems to me that NCSoft would have made the EULA pop up right at the start like everyone else, just to cover their butts. I seem to recall seeing it a lot, so I don't know.
I used CIT before they even joined the Titan network! But then I left for a long ol' time, and came back. Now I edit the wiki.

I'm working on sorting the Lore AMAs so that questions are easily found and linked: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted Tell me what you think!

Pinnacle: The only server that faceplants before a fight! Member of the Pinnacle RP Congress (People's Elf of the CCCP); formerly @The Holy Flame

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #817 on: February 24, 2014, 05:10:51 AM »
yeah it popped up every time I loaded it. And a copy of it was and probably still is in the COX files and folder.

Takinalis

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #818 on: February 26, 2014, 03:53:44 PM »
I have this ideal... but I would need the ability to spawn NPC's by specifying XYZ instead of at current XYZ of player.

I'm pretty far along already, I've been at this for over a week but without this function built into Icon 1.7 I'm stuck.

 :'(

Final edit: Redacted a lot of info. Extraneous.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 03:27:10 PM by brandoncomputer »
Valkyrie Blade - Virtue Server

Codewalker

  • Hero of the City
  • Titan Network Admin
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,740
  • Moar Dots!
Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #819 on: February 26, 2014, 06:04:17 PM »
yeah it popped up every time I loaded it. And a copy of it was and probably still is in the COX files and folder.

The only copy that the client has is encoded in a proprietary format in the client messages binary inside one of the pigg files, unreadable without extracting and decoding it. Oh, and the EULA prohibits you from reverse engineering the format, so you aren't allowed to do that in order to read it.

Archived copies on third-party web sites are dubious, since there's no guarantee they were transcribed accurately, or that it's what you actually agreed to at the time. The only valid copy is what the game presents after you log in to a server, and/or a printed copy in the box when you bought it (did it come with one? I honestly don't remember).

The document itself was titled "User Agreement", and reads more like a terms of service agreement than a software license. Most of it covers account information and the online service. There is a small EULA-like software license paragraph, which just says it's a revocable license but doesn't list any conditions for that other than violating the agreement.

In any event, it doesn't much matter. If it went to court it would boil down to the same old argument of "Can a software license legally place restrictions on the usage of software, or only the distribution?" Results will vary depending on jurisdiction.