Author Topic: Current position/Update  (Read 42356 times)

Tommy2Toes

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #100 on: November 12, 2012, 03:39:25 AM »
My point is that all this internet tough guy talk about "woe be to NCSoft if they make me mad!" is just silly.  Boycotting them is irrelevant at this stage.  Clearly, NCSoft does NOT WANT COH customers in their fold.  That's clear or they would have handled this much differently.  They don't care about anyone posting on here, your money OR your opinions.  Its meaningless to bluster about it, you have no power over their future as they have already divorced you from their future.  With extreme prejudice.

Its like a really bad breakup.  The wife has dumped you, moved on and has already remarried someone else.  They don't want you anymore.  You can keep pining away at them, begging to reconsider, but they've already gotten on with their life without you.  Get on with your own life, or throw efforts into supporting the Plan Z or whatever comes next.  Why isn't there a magazine with 250,000 readers proclaiming support for Plan Z?  Why isn't there a fundraising effort underway to support even the marketing of Plan Z?  Where's the letter writing campaign in support of the "spiritual successor of COH?"  How many of you are sporting banners on your Facebook page saying "Support Plan Z!"

People want to grouse because grousing is the easy part.  Boycotting is simply "doing nothing."  Its passive.  It requires absolutely zero effort to boycott something.  That's why its a popular mantra....because its all about nothing.  And a magazine boycotting NCSoft is about as effective as the Pope boycotting a Death Metal concert.  Who cares, he wasn't going to attend it in the first place, so how is that of any financial impact to the concert?  Unless you find a way to get ACTIVE subscribers of NCSoft's top properties to leave EN MASSE it means absolutely nothing.  Its just noise.  By a bunch of "do-nothings" that are too lazy to "do-something" active in defiance instead.

You want to get NCSoft's attention?  Compete with them.  LOUDLY.  They don't care about the playerbase of COH.  They want you to go away.  Boycott them?  Sure, that's exactly what they want from you...to leave.  Competing is the only chance for survival here.  Anything else is just words.

Ironwolf

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #101 on: November 12, 2012, 04:01:11 AM »
4 posts Tommy and all of them are meant to cause us to quit fighting.
How do we know you don't work for the PR group? Your posts are exactly what I would post to discourage people.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.

Artillerie

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #102 on: November 12, 2012, 04:11:07 AM »
Tommy, you are coming to this forum and asking us to quit. By the sounds of what you say - you are not even a player.

I have not been with Titan for very long but in that time i have seen a few like you pop up. I don't know the reasons why you should spend your time trying to discorage us and i realy don't care. We are not quitters, it gives us personal satisfaction to fight on.

If you really wish to spread your opinion about - please start a new thread where it can be discussed without disrupting this one.

Jordan_Lee

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #103 on: November 12, 2012, 04:15:47 AM »
My point is that all this internet tough guy talk about "woe be to NCSoft if they make me mad!" is just silly.  Boycotting them is irrelevant at this stage.  Clearly, NCSoft does NOT WANT COH customers in their fold.  That's clear or they would have handled this much differently.  They don't care about anyone posting on here, your money OR your opinions.  Its meaningless to bluster about it, you have no power over their future as they have already divorced you from their future.  With extreme prejudice.

Its like a really bad breakup.  The wife has dumped you, moved on and has already remarried someone else.  They don't want you anymore.  You can keep pining away at them, begging to reconsider, but they've already gotten on with their life without you.  Get on with your own life, or throw efforts into supporting the Plan Z or whatever comes next.  Why isn't there a magazine with 250,000 readers proclaiming support for Plan Z?  Why isn't there a fundraising effort underway to support even the marketing of Plan Z?  Where's the letter writing campaign in support of the "spiritual successor of COH?"  How many of you are sporting banners on your Facebook page saying "Support Plan Z!"

People want to grouse because grousing is the easy part.  Boycotting is simply "doing nothing."  Its passive.  It requires absolutely zero effort to boycott something.  That's why its a popular mantra....because its all about nothing.  And a magazine boycotting NCSoft is about as effective as the Pope boycotting a Death Metal concert.  Who cares, he wasn't going to attend it in the first place, so how is that of any financial impact to the concert?  Unless you find a way to get ACTIVE subscribers of NCSoft's top properties to leave EN MASSE it means absolutely nothing.  Its just noise.  By a bunch of "do-nothings" that are too lazy to "do-something" active in defiance instead.

You want to get NCSoft's attention?  Compete with them.  LOUDLY.  They don't care about the playerbase of COH.  They want you to go away.  Boycott them?  Sure, that's exactly what they want from you...to leave.  Competing is the only chance for survival here.  Anything else is just words.


I see your point, even agree with it for the most part. Thing is I still won't pay for any game NCSoft has published in the future. Mostly it's because none of their other games interest me, but how they handled CoH has been such a slap in the face that I really think they are a crappy company. I cannot articulate all the D-bag things they did properly, it's close to my bedtime so I can't really articulate period. But they shut down and tore up Paragon Studios in one day, the did it on a busy weekend in order to avoid bad press, and have given a horrible reason of 'we're going a different direction and won't regret this action' as to why they are closing. Now they own CoH and we don't, so they have every right to wipe their butt with it if they so choose. They don't have to take our money, let us play the game, or tell us a damn thing. I know that.

But I don't like it. No one likes it, some just accept it better than others. If NCSoft could give us a good understandable reason for shutting down CoH, that'd probably get 90% of us off the SaveCoH Train. But they haven't, they won't, and because they won't a number of conspiracy theories have cropped up as to why they will not. Some of them are very fun, in fact there should be a consolidated thread on them.

Now, with NCSoft's record of closing MMOs, I don't think I will play another MMO from them. Why? Because I'm a woman and can hold a grudge FOREVER (serious, just ask my 2nd grade boyfriend Tyler). And, because I have spent over $1000 on City of Heroes. At least 5 years of active subscription, bought expansions and extra packs. And I've spent thousands of hours working on my characters. On December 1st I can never play City of Heroes again. All that money, all that work, is gone forever.

In comparison I spent maybe $200 on my Mass Effect games plus DLCs, I can play those anytime I want to. Today, tomorrow, 10 years from now. Those will always work for me because even if Bioware or EA Games says they are going in a different direction, they can't press a magic button that keeps me from playing it.

I think that got off track and might even show that I've been drinking this evening. Anyway. You are right that by competing with them and providing a better product than them will be more effective than boycotting them. Well, that's in the works but until then I'm loudly (and apparently drunkenly) still boycotting NCSoft. Because I think as a customer who has given more than $1000 of her hard earned money (very often my entire entertainment budget for the month was the $15 for my subscription, I was laid off for 6 months a few years ago and couldn't even afford that much and had to suspend my subscription for a time - I have to choose carefully where my money goes) that more is deserved from NCSoft. Not in compensation, just in respect.

So, I will not purchase or play any other NCSoft title. I will not install any of their games, in fact when the final nail is driven into the coffin I'm even looking forward to uninstalling the PlayNC Launcher. Because I do not respect the company, nor do I like them. And should I hear anyone talking about them or their titles I'll happily tell them what NCSoft did to other well-liked games so they think twice about giving them money, too.

Now...how did I run out of rum? Dang it.

Tommy2Toes

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #104 on: November 12, 2012, 04:34:37 AM »
4 posts Tommy and all of them are meant to cause us to quit fighting.
How do we know you don't work for the PR group? Your posts are exactly what I would post to discourage people.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.

Oh c'mon.  PR group?  Don't you think if NCSoft had a PR group that gave a rats behind about the COH community they'd be doing something in PUBLIC to address you?  The only people here on this forum are COH players, active and former.  The whole point of PUBLIC Relations is, you know, the public part LOL.

As for altering the course of history....whining about how you'll "get NCSoft" ain't changing anything.  You want to change history, help market a successful COH 2.  Otherwise, you are just clawing at your own coffin lid.

Lily Barclay

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #105 on: November 12, 2012, 04:37:10 AM »
My point is that all this internet tough guy talk about "woe be to NCSoft if they make me mad!" is just silly.  Boycotting them is irrelevant at this stage.  Clearly, NCSoft does NOT WANT COH customers in their fold.  That's clear or they would have handled this much differently.  They don't care about anyone posting on here, your money OR your opinions.  Its meaningless to bluster about it, you have no power over their future as they have already divorced you from their future.  With extreme prejudice.


The point of the boycott is to expand it beyond CoH players.  That's why news outlets are beginning to pick it up.  NCSoft shuts down games.  More games than any other company. CoH became the thing that really showed how dangerous NCSoft is when it comes to killing games because it provided the example that NCSoft will shut down anything at any time, even if it is profitable enough to fund itself and other projects.  That's why the boycott came out of CoH instead of the other games NCSoft shut down.  It means that players can't be confident that their NCSoft game will keep going even if it is doing well, because NCSoft may realign their focus and shut it down.  So how do you keep that from happening in another NCSoft game?  Don't start playing them in the first place.  Boycott NCSoft because they don't inspire enough consumer confidence to give them your money.

This isn't solely about NCSoft making us mad.  It's about the fact that NCSoft isn't stable enough to provide an ongoing quality product, and people should know that.  And not buy their products.  That's the difference here. 

Colette

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #106 on: November 12, 2012, 05:59:29 AM »
"Raking NC's public image through the mud of it's own poor decisions via any responsible, respectable, legal means available to us is the best option we have."

NCSoft has swindled us, answered our pleas in the negative, and our protests with stony silence. Destroying their public image by every means available appears to be the only option of the average gamer, like myself. I did warn that if we went on the attack, they would erase CoH simply out of spite. Since we are now on the attack, I have given up hope of saving Paragon City.

My intent now, apparently shared by so many other players, is to erode away NCSoft's reputation, boycott them and encourage others to do the same. That's all I can do.

"...whining about how you'll 'get NCSoft' ain't changing anything."

Probably not, but I don't intend to quit. If NCSoft exists twenty years from now, I shall, God willing, still warn people away from them. Thanks loads for the moral support. Here, have some lemon and salt to rub into our wounds. Would you like to lick the tears from our faces now, Tommy Two-Tongues?

Twisted Toon

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #107 on: November 12, 2012, 06:27:38 AM »
My point is that all this internet tough guy talk about "woe be to NCSoft if they make me mad!" is just silly.  Boycotting them is irrelevant at this stage.

The same could be said for the NYPD filling the streets of NY and shooting their 9 mils at an invading army of space aliens. Yet, they did just that in the Avengers. And really, I wouldn't have given 6 guys, no matter how super they may be, a snowballs chance of actually defeating that same army. Yet, it happened in the movie.

Granted, that was scripted into an entertainment media, but the point still stands. Thoe people were up against very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very bad odds and they did not give up.

I live by my family motto.  Dum Spiro Spero.  Translation: While I can breath, I hope. Nothing may come of it, but I still hope.

I truly feel sorry for those of you who give up hope so quickly and easily.
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Ironwolf

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #108 on: November 12, 2012, 11:49:56 AM »
As a famous man once sang:

You can stand me up at the gates of hell but I won't back down.

Rotten Luck

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #109 on: November 12, 2012, 02:01:25 PM »
The same could be said for the NYPD filling the streets of NY and shooting their 9 mils at an invading army of space aliens. Yet, they did just that in the Avengers. And really, I wouldn't have given 6 guys, no matter how super they may be, a snowballs chance of actually defeating that same army. Yet, it happened in the movie.

Granted, that was scripted into an entertainment media, but the point still stands. Thoe people were up against very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very bad odds and they did not give up.

I live by my family motto.  Dum Spiro Spero.  Translation: While I can breath, I hope. Nothing may come of it, but I still hope.

I truly feel sorry for those of you who give up hope so quickly and easily.

I give you a real life example.  No one said give up to the first responders who rushed in to ground zero after the towers fell.  No one said don't try to save anyone even thought all logic said anyone in the rubble would be dead.

We know like them our chances are 0.000000000001%, But 0% is still enough.  It's not about winning it's not about getting what we want.  It's about Trying and refusing to give up.
One way or another... Heroes will fly again!

Turjan

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #110 on: November 12, 2012, 02:20:30 PM »
My point is that all this internet tough guy talk about "woe be to NCSoft if they make me mad!" is just silly.  Boycotting them is irrelevant at this stage.  Clearly, NCSoft does NOT WANT COH customers in their fold.  That's clear or they would have handled this much differently.

This statement contains both WIN and FAIL.

The WIN is that NCsoft would indeed have handled this differently if they understood exactly what type of players CoH has.

The FAIL is to assume 'not wanting' and 'not understanding' are the same thing.

Basically, NCsoft took us for granted. They assumed that closing CoH would just make us scamper off and chow down on another of their bland grind-o-matic offerings. But the CoH devs themselves have said that the strength and volume of the SaveCoH response took NCsoft completely by surprise, forcing the company to break their traditional "Wall of Silence" approach in an attempt to mollify us and get us to shut the hell up.

And again in this, they misunderstood us.

To suggest that NCsoft didn't want to retain loyal customers of 8 years' standing is nonsensical. It costs a company far more to acquire a new customer than to retain an existing one. They just assumed we'd stay, and stay quiet, because they're the mighty corporation and we're just the people who pay their salaries.

They were wrong.

Nafaustu

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #111 on: November 12, 2012, 04:25:33 PM »
<snip>

Its like a really bad breakup.  The wife has dumped you, moved on and has already remarried someone else.  They don't want you anymore.  You can keep pining away at them, begging to reconsider, but they've already gotten on with their life without you. 
</snip>

Its actually more like that wench has my boat and doesn't fish, and i'll be damned if I let her take something I love and she doesn't out of spite.    I'm not willing to burn it down, but until she sets it on fire and its nothing but ashes, i'm going to try and get it back.    8)

And before anyone gets mad, i'm a woman. :P

Sylvanus

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #112 on: November 12, 2012, 05:26:14 PM »
Is there an organized plan?  If so, where are we with that?

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #113 on: November 12, 2012, 06:24:29 PM »
There's something like half dozen in different states of organization. Several of them operate on the principle of either convincing NCSoft it's bad for their business to shut down the game,  or to sell it off instead of shutting it down.
Then there is Plan Z, which amounts to creating a brand new superhero MMO that carries over the general spirit of CoH if not neccessarily the precise mechanics or IP.
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

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Twisted Toon

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #114 on: November 12, 2012, 09:21:24 PM »
I give you a real life example.  No one said give up to the first responders who rushed in to ground zero after the towers fell.  No one said don't try to save anyone even thought all logic said anyone in the rubble would be dead.

We know like them our chances are 0.000000000001%, But 0% is still enough.  It's not about winning it's not about getting what we want.  It's about Trying and refusing to give up.
That would have bee my next example.  :)
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Victoria Victrix

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #115 on: November 13, 2012, 02:29:13 AM »
All right people.  I want you to put THIS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H5uWRjFsGc on heavy rotation on your music player of choice.  Enjoy the last days until the shutdown and know that we are not even close to being finished.

Quinch, Ammon, Rae and I are working on a crazy-but-it-might-work plan.  A sideshoot of that same plan (we can use the same pitch to both places) is one my husband Larry Dixon is working on.  We should be ready to hit you guys with what you can do in a few days.  This is new stuff for me, I have never worked on a marketing pitch of this magnitude before, but the worst that can happen is that we'll be turned down.

And I have heard from Brian Clayton and expect to talk to him on the phone on Wednesday (he has been out of the country at a family wedding, and unfortunately tried to get hold of me while I was out of the country at World Fantasy.  I'll bring him up to speed and with luck we can recruit him, and maybe some of the devs, as well.

TUBTHUMPING!
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Golden Girl

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #116 on: November 13, 2012, 02:34:21 AM »
I'll be ready and waiting to do whatever I can to help this latest plan of attack.

EDIT: Going by the wording, I'm assuming that this is a post-shutdown rescue effort?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 02:40:35 AM by Golden Girl »
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Victoria Victrix

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #117 on: November 13, 2012, 02:58:00 AM »
I'll be ready and waiting to do whatever I can to help this latest plan of attack.

EDIT: Going by the wording, I'm assuming that this is a post-shutdown rescue effort?

Unless someone can stop time, I don't see shutdown being averted.  Business decisions don't happen overnight, and this is a longshot, I am not going to blow smoke up anyone's derriere about that.  But if you don't try, you automatically cannot win.
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Terwyn

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #118 on: November 13, 2012, 02:59:52 AM »
Unless someone can stop time, I don't see shutdown being averted.  Business decisions don't happen overnight, and this is a longshot, I am not going to blow smoke up anyone's derriere about that.  But if you don't try, you automatically cannot win.

The only losing move is to not go on playing/trying. Basic game theory. ^_^
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Golden Girl

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Re: Current position/Update
« Reply #119 on: November 13, 2012, 03:04:46 AM »
Unless someone can stop time, I don't see shutdown being averted.  Business decisions don't happen overnight, and this is a longshot, I am not going to blow smoke up anyone's derriere about that.  But if you don't try, you automatically cannot win.

Yeah, I guessed that - I was just wondering if any new proposal might have included an offer to cover NCSoft's costs for running the servers for 1-2 months while a transition was made, to help keep the core community together.
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