Just a warning to Facebookers hating on NC Soft :)

[Knightslayer]

Though I don't know how much sympathy we'd get. People are getting fired from jobs because of Facebook and everyone sees no problem with it.

Ah, but it still makes the news. I've seen articles about it happening - which I think would already be a good thing.
And from what I've seen opinions about it vary, some say they've had it coming, others find it a violation of free speech that they get persecuted for something they said in their free time.

[Rae]

Well, I mean, for all we know this guy could have been banned for something he said or did in COH, or something.  I mean people are still getting banned in game for things they were being banned for before they decided to try and shut us down, I presume.

Or, it could be genuine, in which case it's not on. It makes sense they've ban him from posting on their FB page, but to ban him from the game for something he did on Facebook is not cool.

[Knightslayer]

Well, I mean, for all we know this guy could have been banned for something he said or did in COH, or something.  I mean people are still getting banned in game for things they were being banned for before they decided to try and shut us down, I presume.

Or, it could be genuine, in which case it's not on. It makes sense they've ban him from posting on their FB page, but to ban him from the game for something he did on Facebook is not cool.

Yep, it could be numerous offenses - exploiting in game, trying to hack NCSoft property, etc...
Hence my original wait and see suggestion.

[Artillerie]

I have been following that thread on Fb and as far as i am aware, here is the post that got him banned :

"I'm sure this post won't last long on their site : NCSoft is a hateful company ! You killed our game ! You killed City of Heroes ! I will do all in my power to ensure everyone hears how you killed a very loyal fanbase ! You can delete my comments here, but you CANNOT silence me. You CANNOT silence us. We will NOT go away. SaveCoH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Sadly i guess he stepped over the line. I have been trying to encourage people to keep it respectful but it is inevitable that some will allow their indignation to get out of hand - understandable but unfortunate.

Bit of a non techie here and have no idea how to post a link to this but it is on the Save City of Heroes FB page. It's still being commented on so it's easy to find.

[Knightslayer]

Sadly i guess he stepped over the line. I have been trying to encourage people to keep it respectful but it is inevitable that some will allow their indignation to get out of hand - understandable but unfortunate.

Bit of a non techie here and have no idea how to post a link to this but it is on the Save City of Heroes FB page. It's still being commented on so it's easy to find.

Yeah, it's regrettable that NCSoft's let it come to this... just as I said in my email to them, they were actually a company I respected and very much my "premier MMO publisher" (like they say on their website), all my dealings with their customer service had always been positive - as I used to point out to all of those saying NCSoft's customer service sucked.
The fall of an idol always hurts... =P
So of all the game companies that I used to love, there's only Blizzard left - though not for WoW, but for their other excellent titles.

[Colette]

It's not like there were death threats or anything, but yes, that's a little over the top.

However, this does reveal something vital! NCSoft is reading our facebook comments. In English. It confirms that behind their "Wall of Silence," they're uncomfortably aware of being blackballed and badmouthed by a large and angry torch-bearing mob of gamers.

(Often those in a weak position will put on a show of ignoring an antagonist, as if to say "you're beneath my notice," when in fact they're unable to launch any sort of counterattack or refutation.)

We need confirmation from this "Zachkary Michael" to be sure. If there's another cause for his banning, we have a false positive. We might also experiment and see if we can get someone else banned.

But knowing they're reading what we write is useful, and has all manner of implications.

[Ammon]

However, this does reveal something vital! NCSoft is reading our facebook comments. In English. It confirms they are aware they're being blackballed and badmouthed by a large and angry torch-bearing mob of gamers.

Not necessarily.  One of the very first thing that Bayesian spam filters showed was that anything with multiple exclaimation marks was over 90% likely to be spam and worthless.  More than 15 exclaimation marks in a post of that length would be more than enough for any non-english speaker to know to delete the post. ;)

[Colette]

Precisely! We need to experiment to eliminate all the other possibilities.

[OSWsavecoh]

Well I posted a medium length rant on their blade and soul post in which I made pretty much the same points as he did as well as accusing them of deliberately lying to us and calling their business practices shoddy and unethical and so far nothing has happened to my account or my posts (its post 57 on that comment thread for those interested).

I'm with the 'deleted for many many exclamation marks = potential spammer' explanation for that one.

[Lily Barclay]

Personally, I think the one guy that says his account was banned just hit a nerve of someone at NCSoft. He posted over and over about how they couldn't silence him and that there was nothing they could do. I think someone went, "Oh yeah?" *banstick* That's pure speculation on my part, though.

[Zolgar]

others find it a violation of free speech that they get persecuted for something they said in their free time.

Common misnomer.
Internet /= free speech.

A FB wall is like someone's house: You can say whatever the fuck you want on your own, but not on that of others. The same thing goes for an MMO, free speech does NOT apply on an MMO. Additionally, the EULA gives them the right to suspend/ban accounts for any reason. Do I agree with them banning (if they did)? Maybe, depends on what all he said and did.. however, not a violation of free speech.

Seriously, free speech is one of the most misunderstood elements of the constitution. So many take it to mean "I can say whatever I want, whenever I want, wherever I want without any fear of retribution from anyone!"

[JaguarX]

. So many take it to mean "I can say whatever I want, whenever I want, wherever I want without any fear of retribution from anyone!"

Especially when they are online and "hidden" behind the computer.

[Aggelakis]

BTW, the free speech thing is only "the government can't tell me what not to say" (with some limitations). It doesn't say anyone else can't tell you what not to say when you're in their building, on their forums, at their party, on their facebook page, playing their game, talking to their child, etc. Way too many people think the free speech amendment applies much, MUCH farther than it actually does.

Also, your rights do not trump other people's rights, so if you're stepping on someone's else's rights when they are doing nothing wrong, YOU are in the wrong, not them.

[Knightslayer]

Common misnomer.
Internet /= free speech.

A FB wall is like someone's house: You can say whatever the f--- you want on your own, but not on that of others. The same thing goes for an MMO, free speech does NOT apply on an MMO. Additionally, the EULA gives them the right to suspend/ban accounts for any reason. Do I agree with them banning (if they did)? Maybe, depends on what all he said and did.. however, not a violation of free speech.

Seriously, free speech is one of the most misunderstood elements of the constitution. So many take it to mean "I can say whatever I want, whenever I want, wherever I want without any fear of retribution from anyone!"

Probably falls under their "Harassment" section or some other part of the huge EULA's all games have, yeah.
And if he said something obscene or highly offensive he wouldn't get any sympathy from anyone either, I was more trying to point out that if it was a case of NCSoft banning people for disagreeing with them it would most likely make them look bad.
Even if it's no violation of free speech, perception counts for a lot too.

[Codewalker]

Well, their Terms of Service (not to be confused with EULA) state that they have the right to terminate your account for any reason at all. They could ban you just because they don't like your hair color.

However, I think it's unlikely they would do that to try to silence people on Facebook. That's just a dumb move because (1) You can't be absolutely certain that it's the same person who owns a particular game account, (2) Think of the public outcry and negative PR, and (3) It'll just make them yell louder.

Not saying it's impossible, but in my experience, people who post about game account bans very rarely tell the truth about the circumstances. "I wasn't botting, it was my keyboard drivers!" "It was my brother on the account!" "I have no idea where all that gold came from, I swear!"

Plus, the whole thing about "bright red BANNED" on the master account just sounds fishy and over the top to me. I mean, who does that? Some web designers with too much free time or something. I've never been banned from COH, but in WoW you just get a standard error box and are unable to log in.

TL;DR: Hold off on assuming that they're actually doing this until there's more than one case, preferably with some means of confirming that was the reason.

[Knightslayer]

Well, their Terms of Service (not to be confused with EULA) state that they have the right to terminate your account for any reason at all. They could ban you just because they don't like your hair color.

However, I think it's unlikely they would do that to try to silence people on Facebook. That's just a dumb move because (1) You can't be absolutely certain that it's the same person who owns a particular game account, (2) Think of the public outcry and negative PR, and (3) It'll just make them yell louder.

Not saying it's impossible, but in my experience, people who post about game account bans very rarely tell the truth about the circumstances. "I wasn't botting, it was my keyboard drivers!" "It was my brother on the account!" "I have no idea where all that gold came from, I swear!"

Plus, the whole thing about "bright red BANNED" on the master account just sounds fishy and over the top to me. I mean, who does that? Some web designers with too much free time or something. I've never been banned from COH, but in WoW you just get a standard error box and are unable to log in.

TL;DR: Hold off on assuming that they're actually doing this until there's more than one case, preferably with some means of confirming that was the reason.

Ah WoW... the game where you pretty much can't play without getting hacked if you don't own an authenticator, the only game where I actually wound up hacked AND banned for it =P
Fortunately it was nothing that couldn't be solved by several hours of trying to get through to Blizzard's customer support...  8)

[JaguarX]

Funny story, I have two accounts tied to the same Authenticator (neither are active anymore), grandfathered in from before they restricted it to one each. I had migrated to the iPhone authenticator app a bit before they made that change, and when I replaced my phone I didn't want to give it up and have to get two separate authenticators.

So I hacked my own iPhone, figured out how to extract the secret key from the iOS keyring, and migrated it to a small Python program that implements the algorithm. It was a fun diversion and I learned a lot about the iPhone's hardware-assisted secure keyring. :)

So yes, authenticators CAN be hacked. It's a lot more work though, so it's no wonder the accounts not using one are a bigger target.

anything can be hacked. One time a certain high security computer system got upgraded and it was touted as the most secure system in the world of it's type. About one hour later they released statement that it got hacked and many service member's information may have been compromised.

Not to mention that I believe the Pentagon got hacked in 07 time period.

[Knightslayer]

Funny story, I have two accounts tied to the same Authenticator (neither are active anymore), grandfathered in from before they restricted it to one each. I had migrated to the iPhone authenticator app a bit before they made that change, and when I replaced my phone I didn't want to give it up and have to get two separate authenticators.

So I hacked my own iPhone, figured out how to extract the secret key from the iOS keyring, and migrated it to a small Python program that implements the algorithm. It was a fun diversion and I learned a lot about the iPhone's hardware-assisted secure keyring. :)

So yes, authenticators CAN be hacked. It's a lot more work though, so it's no wonder the accounts not using one are a bigger target.

Hah, that's awesome!
And yeah, that's pretty much what I figured - funny thing was, I didn't even get the authenticator for WoW, I got it in anticipation of Diablo 3, since my WoW account had been hacked once already and now they were adding a system that added MONEY to your account... yeah... =P
Then a scroll of resurrection showed me that during the very brief time that I had used another scroll of resurrection a few months ago they had hacked the account AGAIN, and Blizzard banned it for shady dealings  8)
"Guys! Unban it! I have one of these fancy schmancy autheticators now!"

[Lucretia MacEvil]

Personally, I think the one guy that says his account was banned just hit a nerve of someone at NCSoft. He posted over and over about how they couldn't silence him and that there was nothing they could do. I think someone went, "Oh yeah?" *banstick* That's pure speculation on my part, though.

I assume that, if this were the case, the person doing said banning is an NCsoft employee.  In other words, the company that fired the devs is now paying other people to do damage control.  Irony Man to the rescue?

[Hyperstrike]

I'd be inclined to take this story with a brine block or two (significantly more than a "pinch" of salt) when assessing the poster's credibility.

At this point, the only account I have knowledge of for an actual ban was a moron who instigated a chargeback for a yearly sub while he was 6 months in and due a 6 month refund.
Sucks to be him, but the ban was deserved.

This one?  We only have the poster's word that they've actually been banned or that their posting activity was the reason.