Author Topic: Call To Action: Get the word out  (Read 125176 times)

Dark Horizon

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 24
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #320 on: September 07, 2012, 10:53:10 PM »
Unfortunately, there are people in game claiming that it was 23 (when I was in there) signatures needed to save the game.  Echoing some of the more negative posts in this thread, no one is doing the cause any good by pretending that 15K signatures automatically achieves our goal.  We need as many signatures as possible, preferably from everyone playing, in addition to people sending letters to NCSoft/news outlets/government officials, and everybody telling everyone they know about the game.  Please don't misrepresent the value of the number of signatures, but when change.org says "x needed", it means until the next threshold (in this case, 15K), not that we've magically won.  It currently says, "9,986 needed", and that means until the total reaches 20K, not until the petition magically changes NCSoft's minds.


Golden Girl

  • One Liners and Winky Faces
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,242
    • Heroes and Villains
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #321 on: September 07, 2012, 10:53:42 PM »
This is good, I like it.

It's not hateful or disrespectful, merely asking them to comply with their own guidelines.

I just posted it on the Facebook walls of each of their games.
"Heroes and Villains" website - http://www.heroes-and-villains.com
"Heroes and Villains" on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/HeroesAndVillainsMMORPG
"Heroes and Villains" on Twitter - https://twitter.com/Plan_Z_Studios
"Heroes and Villains" teaser trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnjKqNPfFv8
Artwork - http://goldengirlcoh.deviantart.com

NecrotechMaster

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 388
  • is there a badge for that?
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #322 on: September 07, 2012, 11:23:11 PM »
Unfortunately, there are people in game claiming that it was 23 (when I was in there) signatures needed to save the game.  Echoing some of the more negative posts in this thread, no one is doing the cause any good by pretending that 15K signatures automatically achieves our goal.  We need as many signatures as possible, preferably from everyone playing, in addition to people sending letters to NCSoft/news outlets/government officials, and everybody telling everyone they know about the game.  Please don't misrepresent the value of the number of signatures, but when change.org says "x needed", it means until the next threshold (in this case, 15K), not that we've magically won.  It currently says, "9,986 needed", and that means until the total reaches 20K, not until the petition magically changes NCSoft's minds.

i agree, there is no "magic number" to change ncsofts minds, i believe those thresholds are more of goals to help keep the movement strong, its kind of like badges in a way (like the ones for healing, dmg, ect)

emu265

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
  • Wait, what?
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #323 on: September 07, 2012, 11:27:08 PM »
i agree, there is no "magic number" to change ncsofts minds, i believe those thresholds are more of goals to help keep the movement strong, its kind of like badges in a way (like the ones for healing, dmg, ect)
The reason the petition does this is to motivate people who look at it to sign.  It's 'sales' technique, essentially.

healix

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,695
  • Every good friend was once a stranger
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #324 on: September 07, 2012, 11:36:26 PM »
This thought just popped into my head, and I wanted to pass it along. Has anyone else thought of contacting the staff at PCGamer magazine?  I wonder if they would run a story on what we are doing? It seems that Tony V would be the best to plead our cause. He is able to put into words what many can't, and has all the resources available to give PCG all the info they need. Perhaps those who subscribe can also post comments in the mag itself, describing what is going on. It seems like a great way to get the message out to a lot more people.
Listen to the 'mustn'ts'. Listen to the 'don'ts'. Listen to the 'shouldn'ts', the 'impossibles', the 'won'ts'. Listen to the 'you'll never haves', then listen close to me... Anything can happen . Anything can be.

Dr Shadow

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 81
  • Dr Shadow Champion server/ @Leila_L twitter
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #325 on: September 08, 2012, 12:02:09 AM »
I agree this is a long shot. But I also know that City of Cox never really got any advertisement on this level either. There are people who have never heard of  City of Heroes, now may, and give it a chance.  I find that a silver lining.
Dr Shadow- Champion Server @Leila_L twitter

dwturducken

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,152
  • Now available in stereo
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #326 on: September 08, 2012, 12:07:09 AM »
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

dwturducken

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,152
  • Now available in stereo
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #327 on: September 08, 2012, 12:10:13 AM »
This thought just popped into my head, and I wanted to pass it along. Has anyone else thought of contacting the staff at PCGamer magazine?  I wonder if they would run a story on what we are doing? It seems that Tony V would be the best to plead our cause. He is able to put into words what many can't, and has all the resources available to give PCG all the info they need. Perhaps those who subscribe can also post comments in the mag itself, describing what is going on. It seems like a great way to get the message out to a lot more people.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/09/06/players-protest-city-of-heroes/
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

healix

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,695
  • Every good friend was once a stranger
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #328 on: September 08, 2012, 12:12:49 AM »
YAYYYYYYYY! Thanks so much for posting that, DW!
Listen to the 'mustn'ts'. Listen to the 'don'ts'. Listen to the 'shouldn'ts', the 'impossibles', the 'won'ts'. Listen to the 'you'll never haves', then listen close to me... Anything can happen . Anything can be.

Omega Mark V

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 145
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #329 on: September 08, 2012, 01:31:13 AM »
Go Team Titan!

... That reminded me of 'Teen Titans'.

It brings back nostalgic thoughts.

That could be somewhat of a meem by the way; 'Team Titans.'

PS: Don't forget the Titans.
- Omega Mk. V

emu265

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
  • Wait, what?
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #330 on: September 08, 2012, 02:41:32 AM »
... That reminded me of 'Teen Titans'.

It brings back nostalgic thoughts.

That could be somewhat of a meem by the way; 'Team Titans.'

PS: Don't forget the Titans.
I definitely thought the exact same thing.

Team Titans... GO!
*Japanese-I-can't-remember-but-sounds-catchier-than-the-English*

Blitzwing

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 88
  • Boot to the Head!
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #331 on: September 08, 2012, 03:00:18 AM »
I definitely thought the exact same thing.

Team Titans... GO!
*Japanese-I-can't-remember-but-sounds-catchier-than-the-English*

The opening theme was how you could tell if it was going to be a serious or a funny episode...; English song: Serious episode
Japanese song: Funny episode
'Larry' song: 'WTF were they smoking when they wrote that' episode  O_o;

Soundtrack

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 178
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #332 on: September 08, 2012, 03:49:53 AM »
I apologize and I certainly don't have to do what I said I would do.

I was just trying to help.

Again, I'm sorry. I really don't want to make matters worse for all of us.

I'm sorry but THIS is what I was talking about. People signing a petition for a game they have no intention of playing actually detracts from the message. The message is that the people on the petition want the game to stay, and if we were to use those numbers to try to solicit the company to either keep the game online or consider to sell, and to use the numbers to seduce a would be buyer, then muddying the waters by getting anyone willing to take 5 seconds to sign it isn't going to help. The petition becomes unreliable and no longer stands for potential income. It's just reduced to a plea for publicity.

In the CoX forums someone posted graphs of NCSoft's income based on region and then game. We were a "low hanging fruit". We need to be made higher. The Devs have said all renewals have been ceased, and I'm not sure if all billing has been disabled, but if we can't even get more people to join the game, showing an increase in profits based on our marketing attempts, it's going to be a hard sell at best.

I think the kickstart idea is the most plausible IF NCSoft is willing to play ball. Most if not ALL of our efforts should be towards this goal right now. 15,000 people willing to put $100 towards this is $1.5 million. If we could raise that, then someone could use it as seed money to finance the purchase. Empty promises aren't going to do it. Tony if you read this, approaching with empty pockets isn't going to get their attention. We have to start getting the money together or we won't look credible. If we approach them with an empty offer then they won't entertain another from us.

emu265

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
  • Wait, what?
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #333 on: September 08, 2012, 03:55:52 AM »
The opening theme was how you could tell if it was going to be a serious or a funny episode...; English song: Serious episode
Japanese song: Funny episode
'Larry' song: 'WTF were they smoking when they wrote that' episode  O_o;
akjfgahbfj,nf!?!?
I never knew that but my God you're totally right!


And to Soundtrack: I don't think you're wrong.  Please don't let any arguments stop you from trying to help in whatever way you can.  No Remorse may be onto something, but please please please don't let it bring you down.  If we can debate this in a more positive manner and come to a conclusion as a team, we'll be better for it.  Until then, let's avoid negativity.

NecrotechMaster

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 388
  • is there a badge for that?
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #334 on: September 08, 2012, 04:12:16 AM »
we have to remember the petition is only a small portion of the publicity that we are working with here

not everyone who comments on all the news articles may sign the petition, nor will we be able to get EVERY coh player to sign it as well

the petition i feel is basically a consolidated effort to try to keep focus because ive talked to several poeple who feel helpless about what they could do and they feel better somewhat knowing they signed the petition and ive also tried to direct poeple to these forums if they want to try to do more than sign the petition

everyone knows the petition by itself is pretty useless, however, it will be another piece of leverage that the devs can use to potentially sway ncsoft to try to sell the game to them

the petition +85 news articles + whatever else we can get publicized will make a bigger impact

reaching 15000 supporters in 1 week is still an accomplishment and that means we will only get more

Soundtrack

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 178
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #335 on: September 08, 2012, 04:28:25 AM »
akjfgahbfj,nf!?!?
I never knew that but my God you're totally right!


And to Soundtrack: I don't think you're wrong.  Please don't let any arguments stop you from trying to help in whatever way you can.  No Remorse may be onto something, but please please please don't let it bring you down.  If we can debate this in a more positive manner and come to a conclusion as a team, we'll be better for it.  Until then, let's avoid negativity.

Thanks, Emu... I hold nothing against No Remorse. I appreciate his input.

I just want to make sure I'm HELPING our project and not HINDERING it. :)

I definitely see his point. In fact, a petition isn't really that valuable. What stops each of us from creating a totally different account and signing it again, thereby doubling the number.

In my opinion, the real postal letters are going to hold more weight.

Again, just my opinion. :)

TonyV

  • Titan Staff
  • Elite Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,175
    • Paragon Wiki
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #336 on: September 08, 2012, 09:00:51 AM »
Hey all, sorry I haven't replied sooner, but man, these forums are exploding and I've been trying my best to keep up with e-mails, PMs, and threads like this that explode kind of get really hard to keep up with.  Sorry if I ramble a bit incoherently; this is the seventh straight day I've gone to bed after 5:00am and had to get up at 9:00am the following morning.  (But I do get to sleep late tomorrow, friggin' YAY!)

I did want to say, though, that when I say "get the word out," I mean, get the word out to everyone.

What do I mean, "everyone"?

EVERYONE!!!

If I had my way, we'd top a million signatures on that petition.  The only thing I ask is that you not try to fudge the numbers; don't sign it multiple times, don't sign it "Mickey Mouse", etc.  But people from other communities signing it?  Oh hells, yeah.  I want NCsoft to realize that people are watching.  It's not about how many may or may not pay for City of Heroes; if the game is shut down, that's a moot point.  It's about a metric multitude of people turning their eyes collectively to NCsoft and saying, "We want you to do the right thing."

If they do, and they allow the game to continue, especially if they express willingness to work with another company or organization to keep the game alive, they have the potential of scoring a major positive PR victory.  I'm not being facetious when I say that if NCsoft works with us to save City of Heroes, I'll have a lot of gratitude for the company in helping the community continue on even when a game doesn't fit into the long term goals of the company.  It's a sign of maturity and respect, one that would impress me greatly.  If they don't and they allow City of Heroes to die, then I want players across other communities to see what can happen to them if they pour their hearts into an NCsoft game.

So...  Yeah.  Share the petition with your friends.  Share it with your neighbors.  Encourage anyone who is passionate about something--and that's pretty much everyone--to sign it and provide them updates with what's going on.


Also, I've seen a few references in this thread about the game becoming unprofitable.  I really, really, really, really, really wish we could nix this rumor once and for all.  City of Heroes was well in the black.  The game wasn't unprofitable, it was going strong.  There seems to be this misguided belief that if a company kills off a game and closes a studio like it did, then the game must have been sucking air, right?  I mean, if it were making a profit, then why would they close it down?  That wouldn't make sense!

TL;DR version: Yes, it very well might.

I could post a wall of boring business-speak text here, but what it boils down to is that Paragon Studios has a bunch of liabilities, things that are sunk costs no matter how well the game does.  Things like Matt Miller's salary, Andy Belford's health insurance, that copy of whatever artistic wizardry software that David Nakayama uses, and any other corporate resources allocated to the studio and the game, such as engineers, accountants, marketers, human resources goobs, etc.  It's making money, but if you're an investor, you can't assume that its revenue stream will continue unscathed; it's a variable.  That variable income matched with fixed liabilities results in an element of risk, and that means that you might be a little reluctant to pour as much money into a company than they're asking for.

Right now, NCsoft is working hot and heavy on other projects, the most obvious of which is Guild Wars 2.  Paragon Studios, even if it's profitable, could very well be presenting a problem in cash flow to NCsoft.  If NCsoft closes Paragon Studios and shuts down Paragon Studios, all of a sudden, look what happens: you've shed your fixed liabilities, which even with the simultaneous shedding of your variable income, means that there's no risk there.  By sloughing off Paragon Studios and City of Heroes, NCsoft has a consistent record of making money but without those pesky liabilities.  Now, as sad as it sounds, banks and investors are more likely to put money into the company and enable a much more flexible cash flow to support its other projects.

I know that conspiracy theories are enticing, and that it doesn't seem to make sense to shut down a profitable studio, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and this kind of organizational restructuring is exactly what I think NCsoft is going through right now.

...But I still don't think the game is dead yet.  I've REALLY got to go to bed, so I can't expound on this, but I don't think that NCsoft had a grasp of how invested in the game we are.  I honestly think that they thought they'd make the announcement, the players would grouse a little bit about it, and move on.  They would have had to invest in lawyers and complicated business plans to do something like split off Paragon Studios or sell off the game property to another publisher or studio.  That would take valuable resources that, frankly, aren't really worth pouring into doing something that no one will really care about in a few months anyway.

Our mission, our goal, is to make sure that we make NCsoft understand that it is in their best interest to pursue spinning off Paragon Studios or releasing the property to be acquired by someone else; to pay for those lawyers and the inconvenience of letting go of City of Heroes.

emu265

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
  • Wait, what?
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #337 on: September 08, 2012, 09:17:00 AM »
You were probably out cold by the time I was half into reading that, but I'll say it anyway: THANK YOU.  That was exactly the morale boost I needed.  I just logged off the game because of some... more negative... outlooks on the part of other players.  I think it's just them trying to deal with the loss, but I couldn't handle it anymore.  Server traffic is starting to slip and people are starting to "accept reality". 

I am not ready to give up.  I believe many people still want to hope.  If anyone else was beginning to get discouraged, don't.  We can do this.  Let's fight.

"Reality" is represented as the November 30th shutdown.  Let's change that.  People are utterly unwilling to accept the fact that they don't know.  They cling to either positive or negative extremes.  We're like that too.  Don't fault them and don't get discouraged.  All I can offer in my sleep-deprived stupor is don't give up.  You can't.  I can't.  We can't.

Thanks again Tony.  This message may seem like a jumbled mess, but the overall point is that your post cheered me back up. 

Gilliam

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 25
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #338 on: September 08, 2012, 12:04:27 PM »
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16195898@N04/7954828824/
just did this and now 3 x that many people here
"Call it extreme if you like, but I propose we hit it hard and hit it fast with a major - and I mean major - leaflet campaign."

No Remorse

  • Guest
Re: Call To Action: Get the word out
« Reply #339 on: September 08, 2012, 03:09:00 PM »
Also, I've seen a few references in this thread about the game becoming unprofitable.  I really, really, really, really, really wish we could nix this rumor once and for all.  City of Heroes was well in the black.  The game wasn't unprofitable, it was going strong.  There seems to be this misguided belief that if a company kills off a game and closes a studio like it did, then the game must have been sucking air, right?  I mean, if it were making a profit, then why would they close it down?  That wouldn't make sense!

TL;DR version: Yes, it very well might.

I could post a wall of boring business-speak text here, but what it boils down to is that Paragon Studios has a bunch of liabilities, things that are sunk costs no matter how well the game does.  Things like Matt Miller's salary, Andy Belford's health insurance, that copy of whatever artistic wizardry software that David Nakayama uses, and any other corporate resources allocated to the studio and the game, such as engineers, accountants, marketers, human resources goobs, etc.  It's making money, but if you're an investor, you can't assume that its revenue stream will continue unscathed; it's a variable.  That variable income matched with fixed liabilities results in an element of risk, and that means that you might be a little reluctant to pour as much money into a company than they're asking for.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here. The numbers I've seen did not suggest they were "well in the black". We don't know what salaries they were paying or what their operational costs were (unless you have access to info that the rest of us don't). I own a business, and am very familiar with hidden costs of doing so. Their published revenue divided by their employees and averaging general costs doesn't suggest they were making a ton of money. It's also in the eye of the beholder. Where you and I might think $1 million is a lot of money to bring home, I'm sure NCSoft doesn't. When you compare it to other MMO's that would net in a month what this game has been netting in a year, then yes it's perfectly understandable that they did it for financial reasons. Those things you listed as liabilities are overhead, and it counts against the gross profits, reducing them possibly to the point of them disappearing (depending on how costly they are).

I'm sorry Tony but unless NCSoft has released their full operational costs to you, or you've found a way to discover them, you're making an assumption here, one that could cause a critical error in judgment. I get it, this is a crusade, and I'm trying not to rain on anything here. There is a LOT of misinformation going around, and if you're not careful anything done will look very amateurish. It's one thing if you're just trying to get attention, but if you're trying to seriously broker a business deal, that's not an image you want to portray. When people start hassling senators and congressman about a video game closing, then it's a really ridiculous scenario. With all the screwed up things going on in this country, there are much more important things for those people to be focusing on, and a video game shouldn't even be on Washington DC's radar.

For everyone else, please don't let what I say discourage you from expressing yourselves. You have a right to say what you feel and make noise all you want. If this is to be taken seriously though, it's going to take a LOT more than that, and it has to be done in a professional manner, taking the facts and NCSoft's perception into consideration. I'm going to refrain from posting again, as I'm not trying to be a pessimist, but please remember that THIS isn't a game, not to NCSoft, not to politicians, not to a potential investor. In the end keep your priorities straight, as that's what the businesses will be doing. Good luck guys.

One more thing Tony, have you considered making an update message for Mids that directs people to the forums? There are a lot of players that have Mids that don't visit your forums here, I was one of them. If they open Mids, and it says "there's an update on the game, click here", with a link directing them to the forums here I think that would bring more people to your cause. Just a thought.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 03:16:59 PM by No Remorse »