Doubters and Downers. . .

[rebel 1812]

Except they aren't JUST sitting on the IP... they are involved in active negotiations for it's sale... just saying.

No sitting is an apt metaphor.  They haven't been looking for buyers or actively trying to sell it.  Some buyers have hounded them and are trying to make a deal.  Until the deal is done they are just sitting on it and listen to offers.

[pinballdave]

Not a whole lot happens in 90% of the business world during the holiday season. This is no real exception.

<snip>...

Here you've got an unprecedented deal that's being worked on, ...<snip>

That is the crux of the matter. They are dealing with unprecedented details on an unprecedented deal. Neither side is giving up. Both sides want to get it as close to optimal as possible. AND, no, as far as the monetary aspects, if they were not 'close' on a figure they wouldn't be worried about the devil in the details.

Repeating for emphasis, the buyers were going for the IP, and NCSoft offered to sell a binary zombie copy of the game. Again for emphasis, the negotiators are trying to make both sides SATISFIED.

[Aggelakis]

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=imagizer.imageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg7%2F4703%2Fmodhat2.jpg

This thread is here to keep the other two threads clear of arguing between the rabid fans and the cautious doubters. Please be courteous to your fellow players (even if we're not currently playing our game). The cautious doubters are allowed to be cautious and doubt; this thread is for them; stop demanding that they stop being cautious or doubting. This is not the place for that. Those comments are not welcome here.

Courteous debate? Sure. Reminders of information available? Please! No more frothing at the mouth and claiming entitlement of ANY player, whether they're cautiously doubting or not.

[FloatingFatMan]

What facts?  It's great that you are being fed secret behind-the-scenes information that indicates that things are still happening, but the majority of us aren't getting that, and we can only make deductions based on the facts we do have  And, again, the facts we do have are the following:

Sure, in this topic, you and others have repeatedly stated that the negotiations are still ongoing, which is great, but what I'm saying is that that bit of information should be put into the topic that is supposed to be keeping us up to date on what's going on.  It should say "no news, but negotiations are ongoing", not "no news is good news!", because the latter is a meaningless cliche.

You would be better informed if you actually read ALL of the thread in question (and the other one) and not just the first post, which doesn't always get updated with all the tidbits that get said.

Just sayin'.  Don't be lazy and you'd be better informed.

[Harermuir]

The two others threads are drowned in a lot of things that have nothing to do with their purpose. I understand that's is for keeping the mood up and I dont say that it has to stop. But still, finding any information in that mess if you are not reading the thread multiple time a day is pretty tedious. The first post is the best way to find information without having to crawl around thing that does'nt interrest me at all.

[Aggelakis]

The first post is the best way to find information without having to crawl around thing that does'nt interrest me at all.

That's the point of the first post.

Those two threads are intended for people to chat about things generally related to City (I try to pull it out of left field and back to the point every once in a while), to keep the community talking together.

If big new information comes, there will be another thread (there will probably be an explosion of threads as people get excited again). You're not going to find important information buried ignominiously in a triple-digit thread.

[Illusionss]

Ironwolf: NCSoft does not feel they owe you anything. This runs contrary to the entitlement mentality you may have been brought up with. CoH belongs to THEM. They can sell it with whatever deal they wish to make. You don't care about their culture - but they do. This exact attitude is what ended the first deal, that people injected negative attitudes instead of positive and thankful ones.

I am not saying people should be bashing NC during these sensitive times, but this concept is indicative of the fundamental dichotomy between NC and their customer base.

NC thinks CoX is theirs, and how dare we.

The playerbase thinks "this is mine!" because we as customers, paid for every part of our experience. The game didn't just suddenly appear and it was totally free: nope. We players PAID to play. We purchased what we got. For literally years.

One becomes attached to items one has purchased, especially ones associated with happy memories. And hence one might become indignant when that item is snatched away, especially when no real reason is given. This is a fundamental tenet of suppliers vs consumers, and one that NC [or any other company originating in a foreign culture] would do well to keep in mind. The brain does not rule the heart, really. The heart wants what it wants.

All the time, companies of every type are all "Welp.... we're taking that back. So solly, Cholly." And they have the legal right to do that. They do not, however have the right - or the ability - to dictate consumer response to this type of event. And therefore they might actually end up hurting themselves most in the long run, as lack of trust damages the consumer's willingness to trust that company with their hearts re a new product.

With this venture, NC has a unique opportunity to make things up to those they hurt so badly in 2012. I hope they take it, I think that not only would we win, but they would win as well. It would soften consumer sentiment towards them: a thing that, unless I miss my guess, they sorta need these days.

Viva la ongoing negotiations.

[Ohioknight]

And MAJOR thanks for the new "New Efforts" update post -- that should eliminate a significant degree of DownDoubt

[Remaugen]

. . . <Snip!> NC thinks CoX is theirs, and how dare we.

The playerbase thinks "this is mine!" because we as customers, paid for every part of our experience. The game didn't just suddenly appear and it was totally free: nope. We players PAID to play. We purchased what we got. For literally years.

One becomes attached to items one has purchased, especially ones associated with happy memories. And hence one might become indignant when that item is snatched away, especially when no real reason is given. This is a fundamental tenet of suppliers vs consumers, and one that NC [or any other company originating in a foreign culture] would do well to keep in mind. The brain does not rule the heart, really. The heart wants what it wants. <Snip!>. . .

Exactly the way I feel.

People complain that some of us have a false "sense of entitlement", but in fact I do feel that way.

Like so many others I purchased City of Heroes, City of Villains and Going Rogue. I had two paid accounts and later a third (free) account. When City of Heroes went "Free to Play" it was "Forever", only forever really wasn't.

I am used to owning the things I buy, be it a book, a car or even a meal, it is mine and it still feels like theft when someone takes it away.

Yes, I am aware that NCSoft was really selling a service, but that does not lessen those feelings or my sense of entitlement, I do have the physical boxes with the DVDs (And some Klix) after all! 

I am confident that the game will return, but I really don't grok why it is taking so long, I will wait, I have no choice but to wait, but I can still give voice to my disappointment at being forced to wait for something that I feel is already mine. . .  ;)

[LaughingAlex]

Exactly the way I feel.

People complain that some of us have a false "sense of entitlement", but in fact I do feel that way.

Like so many others I purchased City of Heroes, City of Villains and Going Rogue. I had two paid accounts and later a third (free) account. When City of Heroes went "Free to Play" it was "Forever", only forever really wasn't.

I am used to owning the things I buy, be it a book, a car or even a meal, it is mine and it still feels like theft when someone takes it away.

Yes, I am aware that NCSoft was really selling a service, but that does not lessen those feelings or my sense of entitlement, I do have the physical boxes with the DVDs (And some Klix) after all! 

I am confident that the game will return, but I really don't grok why it is taking so long, I will wait, I have no choice but to wait, but I can still give voice to my disappointment at being forced to wait for something that I feel is already mine. . .  ;)

I wholly understand you there.  I had bought the good vs evil edition and later I did at least online buy going rogue.  I had no regrets and I do feel a little entitled to be able to play the game.

I am also confident the game will return, to me it's a matter of when, not if.  It's always been that way for the last two years ever since the game shutdown.  Know?  Funny thing, is that i know this is for the doubters and downers thread, but actually this thread wouldn't even be here if there wasn't a chance city of heroes could come back.  Ironic, but thing is if there wasn't a chance, there wouldn't even be any talks about it at this point.

Funny thing is that, negative threads plague live games that are suffering more than games that are trying to get out of jail :).

[Ohioknight]

When City of Heroes went "Free to Play" it was "Forever", only forever really wasn't.

While I am not wildly resentful of NCSoft terminating a game I put money into as a subscription (2006 until close)
-- I bought very few premium items beyond what was available to me as a VIP

It DOES rather disturb me that their "freemium" sales were made in a context where the items you purchased were available "forever"
and "forever" turned out to be the rather small number of months that they continued to offer the game.

[Ironwolf]

First of all, I was under the assumption that this thread was created for the less...positive...members to voice their opinions and concerns.  If that's the case, I don't understand why other members come swooping down from on high to tell us to stop being negative and shake their disapproving fingers at us.  These elite few who know things but can't talk about them, which is understandable, need to realize that we don't have the privilege of insider information.  You might full well know that talks are ongoing, things are being brokered, finer points are being ironed out.  But the "lesser" members who are outside this circle don't have this info available to us.  We just keep getting "Date xxxx - no change" after months of sitting on the last bit of info which basically said "we are waiting for NCSoft to make the next move".

Though I very much appreciate a direct response from Ironwolf, and I also appreciate the fact that he's likely had to answer these same questions over and over again (I'm sure it's running thin on his patience by now), I do NOT appreciate the tone of the response and I feel like assumptions were made about me.  To point - I don't feel like NCSoft owes me a bloody thing, and the fact that they themselves feel the same way shows a painful lack of empathy to its consumer base.  I willingly gave hard earned money and years of my life to that fantastic game CoH, and for them to just up and pull the plug and rub salt in that wound by never fully addressing why they did it, proves 100% that they don't think they owe me anything. 

I was not raised with an "entitlement mentality", and I am not of that generation that you might assume has been.  The only mentality I was raised with was the one that has something to do with knowing where to draw the line when it comes to principle.  Yes, they hold the cards in this deal.  But the fact that they know this, and are taking full advantage of it, is what irks me.  I don't like bullies, and I don't like people who think they have power over others.  And no, the game does not belong to me, and I have no grounds to stake a claim that any part of it does, save the friends and memories and good times I made during my time there.  But far too much is being explained by "Korean culture" and tip-toeing around on eggshells in fear of scaring them off if too many questions get asked or someone pushes harder than they should. 

Respect for "culture" should go both ways.

When you make demands to know about subjects that are business related and under confidential terms - you come across as entitled.

I left the deal and walked away so Nate and friends would not have to have any pressure from me. I know from what I do hear - things are moving forward. Those in the deal have moved from the OMG if we sneeze wrong they will end the deal to being far more comfortable about the outcome. There appears to be genuine interest in this deal and if you look at it from NCSoft's eyes this could open up a way to make money from some of those other closed games.

Irish Girl has the right of it in that this is a new concept, it is a new thing under the sun. Other communities could now be open for talks in a similar way about their games and point to NCSoft and CoH as a way to move forward.

I can't begin to tell you the nasty things I recieved and the threats made to me when I first started this. Then as things progressed and I was proven not to be a fraud - I never got a single apology. I won't leave those working now undefended. They are trying to get us home and they have earned some gratitude on our part in my eyes.

[BadWolf]

Like so many others I purchased City of Heroes, City of Villains and Going Rogue. I had two paid accounts and later a third (free) account. When City of Heroes went "Free to Play" it was "Forever", only forever really wasn't.

"This is the clearest case of false advertising since my lawsuit against the film 'The Never-Ending Story'!"

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

"This is the clearest case of false advertising since my lawsuit against the film 'The Never-Ending Story'!"

Exactly this. As much as i hate the waiting i'm actually feeling optimistic about a 2015 relaunch.

[Safehouse]

Exactly this. As much as i hate the waiting i'm actually feeling optimistic about a 2015 relaunch.

I concur.

In general, I have really good feelings about 2015 and 2016 for the superhero MMO genre.

If I'm wrong, there will still be Black Desert sometime next year or the year after haha.

[FloatingFatMan]

I concur.

In general, I have really good feelings about 2015 and 2016 for the superhero MMO genre.

If I'm wrong, there will still be Black Desert sometime next year or the year after haha.

Don't hold your breath for BD.  It's a Korean game.  As pretty as it is, it will be a pay2win grindfest full of hacks and bots, just like ArcheAge is.

[Safehouse]

Don't hold your breath for BD.  It's a Korean game.  As pretty as it is, it will be a pay2win grindfest full of hacks and bots, just like ArcheAge is.

Noooo don't shatter my hopes and dreams! Even if they are unrealistic!

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.sire.co.uk%2Fassets%2Fuploads%2Ffiles%2FBury-your-Head-in-the-sand.jpg

[Surelle]

Haha Floating and safehouse!   ;D

But yeah, Korean P2W grinders destroy what could have been great games every time.   :-[

[HEATSTROKE]

 As we are touching on entitlement..

   I STILL WANT ALL MY CHARACTERS AND STUFF BACK !!!!

[batgirl]

After the announcement  .. this thread completes me most because as long as it lives that means there has been no "go" announcement from the CoT or NCSoft teams.