Now, like I said before, please stop bringing the entire thread down. We're here for support, not that other stuff.
Ooh, sorry -- I misunderstood. In which thread would such comments/speculation be appropriate?
Here ya go! A shiny new thread just for you!
Thanks, Remaugen.Personally talking I am willing to wait for as long as needed, I understand the need to play I really do. However, I think it is only right to see what happens this time. But to answer your question if you are leading a alternate attempt one would think you could do it at any time. If you are suggesting on giving up on this effort because it is taking a long time, then I think that is on you.
So, to reiterate the question I asked in "The Mask Comes Off" thread that Agge thought not appropriate to that thread ... if NCSoft DOESN'T give Nate and the Mysterions a solid "no" or "yes" to the current negotiations, how long should the current effort continue before other avenues of Hail Mary negotiations are pursued?
I believe IronWolf was mentioning several other studios who were interested... when do folks think it would be reasonable to try to get contact information to them so they could try to make alternate deals ... 6 more months? 1 year? 2 years? Never and the Nate consortium is the sole representative of the CoH people?
I know things stop in the US over the holidays, but I have absolutely no knowledge of the Korean business environment -- does it stop there this time of year as well? When folks say they're talking but the negotiations are going slowly, do they mean that there are, in fact, actual negotiations... really going on with actual back and forth communications? Or that a proposal was made and has not been answered?
It would be foolish to sidetrack the current negotiations due to impatience on our part. NCSoft won't be rushed, bullied or pressured to release their property until they are willing to do so on their own timetable. As far as other interested parties...if you read the very first post in the new efforts page it lists that their are in fact many different studios interested in bringing COH back. They were all forwarded to the Team Hail Mary efforts. All have different levels of financing based upon certain expectations being met. We won't know which parties are fully involved until the deal is finalized. So as many others have already stated,,,if NCSoft was not interested in selling the IP and disk image of I23 they would have just said NO. Move along. Nothing to see here. We have other priorities. We are in the middle of yet another corporate restructuring.
Instead they have continued to keep the door open. So until that door shuts and I am sure if that does happen, Nate will make such an announcement at that time. Then we will regroup and try again. The longer they delay the sale the less money the IP will be worth. So at some point they will need to make a decision either to make money or shelve the property. I would think from a corporate perspective that they would rather make money then receive no money. but that is just my opinion. For all that is worth.
Thanks, Remaugen.
So, to reiterate the question I asked in "The Mask Comes Off" thread that Agge thought not appropriate to that thread ... if NCSoft DOESN'T give Nate and the Mysterions a solid "no" or "yes" to the current negotiations, how long should the current effort continue before other avenues of Hail Mary negotiations are pursued?
I believe IronWolf was mentioning several other studios who were interested... when do folks think it would be reasonable to try to get contact information to them so they could try to make alternate deals ... 6 more months? 1 year? 2 years? Never and the Nate consortium is the sole representative of the CoH people?
I know things stop in the US over the holidays, but I have absolutely no knowledge of the Korean business environment -- does it stop there this time of year as well? When folks say they're talking but the negotiations are going slowly, do they mean that there are, in fact, actual negotiations... really going on with actual back and forth communications? Or that a proposal was made and has not been answered?
I don't know about everyone else, but I'm hoping that if an IP holding company is set up we'll have a chance to invest in it so we can own a piece of the City... :Dsorta like Green Bay locals owning a part of the Packers? I like this idea :)
Me too :):D
Socialism!!!! :)
I think of it as the ultimate capitalism, we all get to profit!
Once the game returns they should make a new enemy group : The Downer Party
The other parties were sent to Nate and Co, I don't know if one of those groups are involved in the effort to run the server or if it is a different group - that I don't know of.
You see it as this is THE effort to get everything back - I see it as AN effort to get it back.
I will not stop if this one fails just reload and try again. Yes, I did look at my 401k - and considered.........but wisdom prevailed and I left it right where it is. CoH - might - be a good investment and potentially a great one. I have a person in mind for funding if this goes belly up. He was jusr recently given a whole boatload of patents for his work when he was an inventor for a company that annually was turning over a $1 billion a year - yes he was given those patents by the owner when he retired and left to run with everything.
I do think I could get him onboard - but that is a last ditch effort as he is a close friend that while he is rich - we never let him buy a thing. Other people always want him for the cash but those who are close to him won't even let him buy us a McDonalds. We let him know we like and want him for himself money be damned. If it came to it I would just let him know of the game and see if it interests him. However that is a last ditch effort if everything else fails. In the meantime - I must start buying lottery tickets again.
The way I see it. We'll get the game back in one form or another eventually.....
We have the current negotiation, which I personally believe are going very well ( I mean look at the amount of details we've already gotten. I expected few details myself). If this does fall threw, there are other studios/parties interested. We have the 3 successor projects. Then that thing people whisper about in the shadows...
So I don't see anyone given up and I don't see us failing. The only real question to me is how long before I can log in again. If this current negotiation goes threw soon, if not a year from now maybe two?
Time to get enterprising and start up the Downer Party Catering business.
Don't bring me down bro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9nkzaOPP6g
Now, Gentlemen... I will point out that this is specifically stated to be a thread "just for you" (me) for making observations and asking questions to cast doubt on our collective hope!
Such as, what do we do if NCSoft doesn't say no but also never says yes?
Does that keep all efforts on hold forever?
And, is NCSoft ACTUALLY putting significant effort into the negotiations? Have they done anything more than, say, a meeting, lunch, couple of phone calls and a couple memos to/from legal and then two/three months of "maybe we can get back to you next month"?
Will somebody PLEASE tell me I'm full of crap!
(Having my spirits lifted sounds a HELL of a lot more fun)
Now, Gentlemen... I will point out that this is specifically stated to be a thread "just for you" (me) for making observations and asking questions to cast doubt on our collective hope!
Such as, what do we do if NCSoft doesn't say no but also never says yes?
Does that keep all efforts on hold forever?
And, is NCSoft ACTUALLY putting significant effort into the negotiations? Have they done anything more than, say, a meeting, lunch, couple of phone calls and a couple memos to/from legal and then two/three months of "maybe we can get back to you next month"?
Will somebody PLEASE tell me I'm full of crap!
(Having my spirits lifted sounds a HELL of a lot more fun)
You're full of crap.
Happy now?
I had a huge reply typed... but realized no matter what I said... you would still be a downer... so I'll just leave it at that.
Donner Party Catering
-----------
We're Here to Serve (a Piece of) You
All this Donner Party stuff reminds me of the classic Twilight Zone episode "To Serve Man.""And the sauces are way too fatty and over-seasoned!"
"It's a cookbook!"
please relax, it would seem the current effort is a closing deal. from what I've seen of the description of the situation so far there has already been several major handshakes, City is coming back 100%, I have no doubts.
They are just working over the particulars and legalities of running it as an autorun MMO
it may take a while, and I check here every day for some sign of new information.
I think that COH may return, but not in any near timeframe. My personal guess is that it won't happen in calendar year 2015. I'll be pleasantly surprised to be wrong,
If its 2016, I think only the hardcore fans will be able to wait that long. If they want a bigger user base, they will need to act quickly before casual fans move to different games.
Well... it's been two years already. The only people even thinking about CoX anymore are the few hardcore fans like us that are left. :)
If its 2016, I think only the hardcore fans will be able to wait that long. If they want a bigger user base, they will need to act quickly before casual fans move to different games.
Well... it's been two years already. The only people even thinking about CoX anymore are the few hardcore fans like us that are left. :)
I'm already advertising it's return to people. there will be more players than shut down eventually.
I do that to once in a while, in an online game i'll say "There is a good chance it'll come back". In CO I knew a few who'd love to try the game out once it came back.
Well, my wife will return and play when the city is back open... hopefully we get the chance soon!
Next Year in Paragon!
/em holdtorch
Annoyed with people - not necessarily here - proclaiming their opinions as "fact" and also tired of people - not here - stomping their feet and wailing for news like toddlers wailing for that ice cream cone an adult is holding over their heads as said adult chats with another adult.
Mom and dad are talking. Mom = NCSoft. Dad = people buying the game. Don't annoy them, or no ice cream for anyone.
I think I recall a South Park episode along a similar theme, Cartman's mother was denying him Kentucky Fried Chicken as an operant conditioning technique and none of the adults cared as Cartman screamed "chicken! chicken! gimme chicken!" all over the room, grabbing and climbing.... some people remind me so much of that! And I don't even like South Park that much, but that episode stuck in my head.
How hard is this having to WAIT for some people to understand? Not talking about here, really just in general. I really think a lot of people want this to fail, just so they can not have to be worried about it!
Feel free to dare, to hope to create. You may fail, but that doesn't make you a failure.
Its been two years and I can only keep that "Any Day Now!" fever for so long.
I recall months ago holding out hopes of Christmas in the Chalet. Now I'm seeing maybe not in 2015? :gonk: NCSoft didn't move this slowly when they bought this IP. I don't understand why selling it should take so long.
Those who know don't speak and those who speak don't know.
I am certain that all involved are under NDA now and can't discuss it beyond saying we - are still talking. The only ones saying not in 2015 are speculating. We don't have a date but we still have slow steady progress.
NCSoft is used to buying games, they are not used to selling them and especially in such a deal as we see going through.
Agreed, however once the game does return, new players will inevitably arrive to try it. While the population may not reach pre shut down levels, I suspect it will be fine.
That kinda fever is bound to burn you out. You *should* let that drop. Because "any day now" is very unlikely. A healthier approach would be to find a pastime you enjoy and focus on that for the time being. Just check in here every so often to see what's up (somewhere else works too, so long as the place you go offers *reliable* info and not just rumors). I'd say once every week or two is plenty if an update is all you're looking for. The way I see it, you only need to come back *every* day if you're looking to keep in touch with other players regularly.exactly trip :)
When it comes back, we're gonna need two things above all.
1) We need to know about it. If you've become burnt out from checking every day, and moved on out of frustration or despair, then you'll miss the message when it does finally come. That's no good. Dial it back, take the expectations down a notch. Limit your search for updates to once every week or two. Make sure you're still here when it counts.
2) We need to still be enthusiastic about it. Remember that this is an endurance race, not a sprint. Don't check every time with your breath held, hoping this is the time you'll see that good news. The crash from that kind of pressure is too much to take regularly. There's no need of that; don't do it to yourself. Just make it a part of your routine, like you might check your email or the weather. That way, when the good news does finally show up, it will come as a very pleasant surprise on an otherwise ordinary day. That positivity will help us embrace any changes they might have to make, if they're necessary.
It will also help us spread the word to old friends and new players. If we're focused on the positives when we tell people about it, it's more likely to convince other potential players to try it out for themselves. And that can only help give the re-launch more strength.
The thing is, this is one mission we can't steamroll. Patience is the only thing that will do us any good in this case. Getting excited over it on a daily basis is pointless - it isn't going to get us anywhere, except worn down and tired. And growing frustrated over it is useless to us - our *feeling* that it isn't working doesn't mean that it isn't working; it just means we can't see it.
The real key to patience is finding ways to take your mind off the thing you're waiting for, so the impatience doesn't wreck you. For most that means stepping back and doing something else in the meantime, while keeping an eye on it from afar.
I refuse to give up hope that someday CoH will come back. Stranger things have happened, things that people deemed impossible.
(https://i.imgur.com/LXQ656P.gif)
I refuse to give up hope that someday CoH will come back. Stranger things have happened, things that people deemed impossible.
Well, first, if you dont want to read message from doubters and downers, i fear you are not in the right place.
It only cost NCsoft a signifiant amount of money if they actually plan to sell the game. Lawer and technician are not needed that much if they are only just making us chase our tails. And in fact, if they really want to sell the game, the more time it takes to settle a deal, the more it wwill be costly for them, and the less profit they can hope to make, especially with a property that is not worth that much money. Based on what I know, which must be all the thing that have appended the past 3 months, because we have heard nothing new during the last three month, the more believable situation is that we are in a dead end. NCsoft may know this from the start or no. But still, they have no interrest in making it clear, because it will just provoke a new surge of hate against them in the community. So there best move is just to let us hope that we are going somewhere, even if it's not the case.
I have to add that there may be some top secrets negociations on the future of the game which may take months, years or decades to reach a conclusion. Anyway, if such a thing exist, i m pretty sure that they have absolutely no chance of succes if any rubbish posted on the internet by people who have no involvment in the negotiation can cause their failure. If they are secret, whatever the community do cannot be linked in anyway with their outcome.
If they didn't want to sell the game, they just wouldn't have ever responded to Nate's inquiries. The game was dead, and people were slowly drifting away from the fanbase. If they wanted to stop people from caring about the game, stonewalling was doing the trick just fine. The idea that they're entering into endlessly protracted negotiations that they have no intention of ever following through on, in order to reduce the frustration level of the CoH community? That doesn't make sense if you think about it for even thirty seconds.Actually it makes more sense the less you think about it and less sense the more you think about it; 2.6 seconds is just about the plausibility sweet spot in my opinion. Less than that and you can't really process it and any more makes it start losing plausibility. i suspect some combination Poe's Law and standard absurdist humor went into Harermuir's post.
If they didn't want to sell the game, they just wouldn't have ever responded to Nate's inquiries. The game was dead, and people were slowly drifting away from the fanbase. If they wanted to stop people from caring about the game, stonewalling was doing the trick just fine. The idea that they're entering into endlessly protracted negotiations that they have no intention of ever following through on, in order to reduce the frustration level of the CoH community? That doesn't make sense if you think about it for even thirty seconds.
We are all only able to form thoughts and opinions based on the information provided, which has been scant. That kind of scenario, and the time that has gone by since we all thought the game would be back before the end of the year, combined with our daily (if not more frequently) checking for ANY news, or positive developments eventually allows us to entertain our worst fears. Its human nature.
As I have stated elsewhere, I have no doubts that this will eventually happen. My issues start with the fact that this deal is being conducted on a pace, and in a manner befitting a HOT gaming property. Not a 12 year old game that has been out of circulation for 2 years. If NCSoft has any desire to make some decent coin on such an old property, logic would suggest that the more time that goes by, the less it is worth. Also, if they wish to have a ready-made community at re-launch, dragging it out will only reduce the potential size of it when people grow tired of waiting, and move on. Business deals CAN go as quickly as the parties involved wish them to go. If NCSoft wanted this to happen sooner, it damned well would.
So, the only conclusion I can come to after all of this is, there is a crucial piece of information that we don't know which gives NCSoft a reason to do things as if this IS the hot game property they are treating it like. I grant that I am not privy to any information outside of what I have read here for the past few months, so any conjecture I have for why things go on this way is, hamstrung by what I don't know. That does not make me feel any better about having no idea about when or how to set realistic expectations for coming home to my beloved Paragon City.
Bottom line is, if I did not care as much as I do, it would not bother me so much. However, I do promise to keep all of my complaints about all of this confined to this thread from now on. No more letting it spill over to the status threads. Scouts honor.
No actually I didn't think it would be back by the end of the year...and I'm well aware of many others who didn't either. Did SOME people or a FEW people think that...sure, but that is/was a very unrealistic goal that MANY of us knew due to the complexities of an international transaction of this nature would never be achievable.
Sorry folks, but right or wrong, my expectations were set higher than the reality of the situation. You can throw all the business reasons why that should not have been the case at this you wish. Once done, it is done. Those expectations were not met, so there is disappointment. The title of this thread would seem to indicate that this is the right place to express that kind of disappointment, and yet even here there seems to be a "if you are not happy about it, then its your own fault" vibe going on.
Its a free country, and every opinion has a counter opinion. You can tell me all day long that I don't possess all of the facts on this. In fact, I believe I said that a couple of posts ago. However, when it comes to the idea that somehow, because this community is so large, and so vibrant, that everything will be just fine no matter how long all of this takes, I have to wonder who is kidding who? It might seem like we are all of that, but it really only seems that way. In relative terms, we are still a mere sliver of the gaming world. Even if we are are thousands, that is not enough for long term viability for any business venture. This game has to come back soon to gain a foothold, and efforts towards the next step in its evolution have to follow soon enough afterward to take advantage of the momentum to further build the player base. Relying on this community alone will not bring CoH back for good. It has to attract new players, and with all of the competition for attention out there, and the short attention spans of most younger players, it is going to be tough even if everything goes just right.
So, whether it happens sooner or later, I will be there. I just feel that if NCSoft in all of their business wisdom, does not see that keeping this on the usual pace of business might be adversely affecting the chances for it to succeed, then perhaps there is some information they are missing. I might not know everything going on with the business end, but I know something of people, and a 12 year old game with 2 years of downtime is going to be fighting an uphill battle to carve out a piece of the community under the best of circumstances. Additional time will not improve that situation.
Believe me when I say I would rather be talking about actually playing the game, and sharing those experiences, but those are over two years old now, and nothing new on the horizon. I look forward to the day when that is no longer so.
1. Stop blaming NCSoft. Seriously. We get it you think they are horrible business people, but basically calling them ignorant/lazy/whatever it is you are going for... is not helpful. NCSoft is participating in these negotiation with due diligence and in good faith...for you to insinuate otherwise is nothing but fear-mongering and misrepresenting both NCSoft as well as the team working on the deal.
2. This is going on the usual pace for business... not sure how many times and how many people have to tell you that. How many international negotiations have you participated in over IP??? I don't care what you read online or in a magazine... IP deals...especially ones that are international...take time... a lot of time. NO ONE wants screwed over in this deal... NO ONE. NCSoft was not the one's seeking a buyer and were not prepared for this...so they are going to make sure they are covered and get what they want....
3. CoH launched on April 27, 2004... It is 10 years and 8 months old... not 12 years old. No one played live in 2002....
4. You are free to express your opinion as much as you want...but then there are others who will state the facts of the situation. I think the reason your posts bother some people more so is that you have 6 posts... 5 of which are basically you attempting to cause doubt, spreading misinformation, and generally attempting to cause others to be pessimistic....
It's one thing to be pessimistic because you lack information to the contrary...and then it's another to be pessimistic just to be pessimistic; which is how you are coming off.
. . . .<Snip!>. . .
FYI... please don't speak for me or the rest of Titan by making statements such as "since we all thought the game would be back before the end of the year"
No actually I didn't think it would be back by the end of the year...and I'm well aware of many others who didn't either. Did SOME people or a FEW people think that...sure, but that is/was a very unrealistic goal that MANY of us knew due to the complexities of an international transaction of this nature would never be achievable.
Well I could be wrong, and forgive me if I am, but I was under the impression that this thread was created as a place where people could express their doubts, fears, and questions so that others could help allay those doubts, fears, and questions. Again, I could be wrong.
Personally, I was in the camp of expecting/hoping to be playing CoH again by Halloween, and definitely thinking I would have gotten in game before the holidays. And it has been a bit depressing that we haven't gotten there sooner. So on the one hand I can understand the folks who are uneasy or frustrated about how things are going.
On the other hand, what people like Burnt Toast are trying to do is help show things from an alternative perspective. They're not saying that what we feel is wrong, but they are doing what they can to try and help alleviate some of that discomfort that we have re:the amount of time this deal is taking. The wording might be harsh sometimes, and tensions might be running high, but at the core all of our hearts are in the right place.
I don't think that those who are offering a different point of view are trying to tell folks not to rain on their parade, but they are trying to help those of us who are having a hard time seeing the positives.
Do I wish the game was back by now? Absolutely. Do I have concerns about how the deal is proceeding? Without a doubt. And I certainly wonder where the community will be if this takes much longer. But, at the same time, I can definitely see where those with the more positive outlook are coming from. I am also aware that there very well might be/probably are things that cannot be shared through the course of the business deal.
Folks like Ironwolf and Burnt Toast are helping me become less skeptical about the way things are going. I'm okay with waiting, even if it is with grand anticipation :)
1. I don't "blame" NCSoft for anything other than perhaps not availing themselves of the opportunity to strike while the iron is hot (more reddish yellow, than white hot at this point I am afraid). The ONLY point I have been trying to make is that the power to move this forward is completely theirs to govern, and the indicators are (unless there is an announcement pending very soon) that they are in no particular hurry. I contend that the more time that goes by, the more the risk to the long term viability of any proposed business model around this game. I may not have all the information, at my disposal, and I may not be an expert in international business transactions....but I have been around, and I know enough, and have seen enough to tell me they are not doing themselves any favors with this approach.
I have no fear that when the announcement is made... you will see more and more former CoH members flock here for more information. If you think for one second nearly every MMO website out there won't be praising the revival of CoH....giving us all the free publicity we could ever want :) Whether the announcement is today or in a few months (More realistic)... we are not going to see a huge difference in the number of returnees and new players. CoH players have waited 2 years now for their game to return... a few months in hindsight... not going to matter much if it means the game returns in all it's glory.
Well, on the bright side, there don't look to be any more new "informational demand" threads cropping up anymore! So kudos to the OP of this thread. Mission accomplished. :D
Here is something I shared with someone regarding about their opinion that the negotiations were taking too long..
How long should it take..
when did the negotiations officially start..
do you know all the terms of the negotiation..
do you know all the requirements and the stipulations??
do you know all the terms??..
do you even know exactly WHAT is being purchased and negotiated?..
do you know what state the game is actually in currently??...
is it in a state where it can be run effectively??
whats the purchase price...
exactly what does that get you..
and for how long ??
what about future projects and rights to those ???
what about future earning rights ??
naming rights ??
potential copyright issues..
what about protection from possible future lawsuits ??
ALL these things need to be discussed... and possible a WHOLE WHOLE lot more...
and thats off the top of my head from a guy that deals with business in a very very minor way..
So let the process play out..
People need to realize that there are a LOT of details to be ironed out.. the best thing to do is dont set any dates for yourself and hope for the best..
Hey Burnt, if it will make you feel better about the fan grumbling going on around here, check out the folks over at reddit's /r/spacex bitching at the company for not making an announcement about their Mars transport engine fast enough!
Raptor Engine... Larger than the F1 engines that launched the Apollo missions on the Saturn V... Company doing it entirely of their own volition... NOT FAST ENOUGH!!!
"I just hope this isnt the "Duke Nukem Forever" of rockets.
I know the end product will be awesome(hopefully!) its just this new day and age of I want everything now! (myself included) Drip feeds of specs etc would be mint though :)
"
Unfortunately the internet has not helped our desire for instant gratification...it has made it ten times worse :)
Research a school paper.. Google. When I was in school... you had to actually go to a library...look things up in an encyclopedia and other sources... oh the travesty!
Renting a movie...Amazon/Itunes/Vudu/Google Play. Or when I was young... go to the video store and hope they had what you wanted.
Unfortunately the internet has not helped our desire for instant gratification...it has made it ten times worse :)
Research a school paper.. Google. When I was in school... you had to actually go to a library...look things up in an encyclopedia and other sources... oh the travesty!
Renting a movie...Amazon/Itunes/Vudu/Google Play. Or when I was young... go to the video store and hope they had what you wanted.
My niece is 12 and she has no idea what life is without the internet... and she had no idea what a record was...we just told her it was a really big cd that required a special player.... Then again she also has no clue what a VCR is... or what goes in them... ugh. I think her generation is going to be so much worse when it comes to wanting things... NOW!!!!!!!!!!! :)
I can say on behalf of all of us we are so sorry that we were unable to get the deal done faster for you.I've been mostly only following your posts, I'm extremely pleased with what you have been saying recently. Basically explaining the situation, the hold up, and with what you've said we know that you feel the deal is very much on their mind and is something they're going through measures to make the sale happen. I'm extremely excited and feel their is a good chance this happens, might not be today or tomorrow, but hopefully within the next 6 months(just throwing a timetable that I'm hoping for) it could potentially happen.
I can't make you understand we don't get to choose how fast NCSoft moves. If you want to blame someone start with me. Leave the team alone and hold your "expectations" as we have repeatedly tried to explain that we have no control over anything that is happening. Do you know what an NDA is?
It means they can't talk about the deal and they can't even tell you they are under an NDA. The people here on this board have been given far more information than ANY company normally provides while making a deal. If that does not satisfy you then - it is on you.
I can say on behalf of all of us we are so sorry that we were unable to get the deal done faster for you.
I can't make you understand we don't get to choose how fast NCSoft moves. If you want to blame someone start with me. Leave the team alone and hold your "expectations" as we have repeatedly tried to explain that we have no control over anything that is happening. Do you know what an NDA is?
It means they can't talk about the deal and they can't even tell you they are under an NDA. The people here on this board have been given far more information than ANY company normally provides while making a deal. If that does not satisfy you then - it is on you.
I must say, the senses of entitlement I feel from other players really surprises me; its as if some people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that screaming "I WANT IT NOW!" like so many Veruca Salts does NOT, in fact, guarantee instant action. Its just spoilt-bratty behavior and its actually counterproductive.
I must say, the senses of entitlement I feel from other players really surprises me; its as if some people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that screaming "I WANT IT NOW!" like so many Veruca Salts does NOT, in fact, guarantee instant action. Its just spoilt-bratty behavior and its actually counterproductive.
Yes, I very much agree that wanting to be kept in the loop and up to date on a subject that is very much near and dear to our hearts is exactly the same thing as being a whiny entitled crybaby throwing a temper tantrum.
Wait, was that not what you were trying to say? Because it sounds very much like exactly what you said.
Insulting people who already have frayed nerves from waiting months and months with very few updates is not going to make them any more patient or cooperative.
Exactly, but...
I want a feast
I want a bean feast
Cream buns and doughnuts and fruitcake with no nuts so good you could go nuts.
Yes, I very much agree that wanting to be kept in the loop and up to date on a subject that is very much near and dear to our hearts is exactly the same thing as being a whiny entitled crybaby throwing a temper tantrum.
Uhm.... that is not what was said.
I must say, the senses of entitlement I feel from other players really surprises me; its as if some people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that screaming "I WANT IT NOW!" like so many Veruca Salts does NOT, in fact, guarantee instant action. Its just spoilt-bratty behavior and its actually counterproductive.
But even if it were, what part of THEY ARE UNDER AN NDA AGREEMENT do you not grok?
They can't tell me, you or anyone what is going on. Due to legalities. If they disregard the NDA, guess what? NOBODY GETS ANY COOKIES.
Call it an insult if you must, however its not an insult BUT A STATEMENT OF BASIC FACT. Hel-LO?! IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE DEAL, YOU GET NADA AS FAR AS INFO. How can it be made more plain?!
Let these people do what they do! And be patient! its hard, I know! But we got to do it!
It has been explained numerous times by numerous people though that aside from... "things are progressing" nothing else can be said due to NDA. Yet people still feel they are owed more information...because... hell I have no idea why they think that actually...
Just to understand a thing.
No news is good news. Ok. But if we still have no news in 6 month ? 1 year ? 10 year ? When will no news start to be bad news ? If NCsoft doesnt attend to say a definitive no, we will never have news. And for me, that's pretty bad.
Just to understand a thing.
No news is good news. Ok. But if we still have no news in 6 month ? 1 year ? 10 year ? When will no news start to be bad news ? If NCsoft doesnt attend to say a definitive no, we will never have news. And for me, that's pretty bad.
You have to remember too that rezzing a zombie edition of a 10-year-old shuttered MMO isn't exactly at the top of their priority list. They run multiple MMOs both in the East and West, with other upcoming ones (like Lineage Eternal) in development besides. Personally I'm surprised they care about CoX, its IP or its server snapshot from shutdown night at all. NCSoft isn't exactly known for their patience or compassion in the gaming industry, lol.
Not to say that anything will ever come of this, but we are no worse off even if nothing ever happens than we've been for the last two years. If it happens, it happens. But I'm thrilled and proud of our player base that people just keep trying, and I really appreciate the efforts of every person who has tried anything at all. :D
...And if all else fails, there's still SCoRE.TM
If the deal were to fall through.. we would hear something..
If as we believe they team trying to make a deal us under NDA then we arent going to hear anything because breaking that could sour the deal. So we need to be patient.
That's not how I was reading the question. It's not "what happens if they explicitly say no?", it's more akin to "what if they just... stop responding?"
After all, the issue isn't, despite my previous post about being kept in the loop, that the team isn't really keeping us in the loop. It's that the last update two or three weeks ago was the team explicitly telling us that NCSoft hasn't contacted them since October 2nd.
I've applied for literally dozens of jobs where potential employers have never said "no", they just reply less and less frequently until they stop replying at all.
So "They haven't contacted us in any way for more than two months, but they haven't said no!" isn't necessarily an indication that things are still all hunky-dory.
When does "no news is good news" turn into "no news means that NCSoft has forgotten about us (or is just hoping we'll go away)"?
That's not how I was reading the question. It's not "what happens if they explicitly say no?", it's more akin to "what if they just... stop responding?"
After all, the issue isn't, despite my previous post about being kept in the loop, that the team isn't really keeping us in the loop. It's that the last update two or three weeks ago was the team explicitly telling us that NCSoft hasn't contacted them since October 2nd.
I've applied for literally dozens of jobs where potential employers have never said "no", they just reply less and less frequently until they stop replying at all.
So "They haven't contacted us in any way for more than two months, but they haven't said no!" isn't necessarily an indication that things are still all hunky-dory.
When does "no news is good news" turn into "no news means that NCSoft has forgotten about us (or is just hoping we'll go away)"?
Uhm not sure where you read that NCSOFT has not contacted the team at all since October 2nd....
What was said is.... No news is good news... meaning... the deal is still being negotiated but due to an NDA specifics cannot be stated.
Not sure how you got explicitly...that there has been no communication from NCSOFT for almost 3 months now out of that statement.
Yes, Burnt toast - it isn't that we don't have anything happening - it is that the talks are still happening. This is good news. Bad news would be nothing is happening and they won't talk.This is actually a really, really good way to explain what's going on :D
Things are going forward - just slowly. You go to buy a new car and the sales guy says we can't add all those options in for the base price. You say well how about for and extra $2k? He says - I need to go ask the manager and runs off. Then he comes back and says well for $2k we can throw in the large rims but not the top of the line stereo and speakers or the custom paint. You say well what does he want for those?
This is what is happening right now. They are checking things off they want and NCSoft is getting the things they want to see. Likely we are dealing with an associate who is then taking the deal back to the manager. The manager says these 3 items are fine but those 4 we can't do for that price. So both sides are trying to get the most value for the money.
Uhm not sure where you read that NCSOFT has not contacted the team at all since October 2nd....
What was said is.... No news is good news... meaning... the deal is still being negotiated but due to an NDA specifics cannot be stated.
Not sure how you got explicitly...that there has been no communication from NCSOFT for almost 3 months now out of that statement.
UPDATE October 2 2014:
Proof of developer viability was submitted and accepted. The ball is in NCsoft's court while they assess the group's expertise and backing. No news is good news.
(Update Dec 14: No change.)
Did you miss Nate Downes whole thread the Mask is Off?
He explains the deal and further explains that things are plodding along and a few details sneak out - like NCSoft and another party will be working together to approve the leasing of CoH.
My thread really was more for my efforts that became Nate's effort and then the Mask is Off thread superceded this one.
Remember, for most of us, that topic is the only place where we can get any news at all, and the only news there is "nothing has happened since October 2". It's wonderful that there are some of you who are getting secret informal updates behind the scenes, but that's not the majority of people on this forum. That topic is it, and that topic doesn't say there's anything happening.
That may be what's contributing to the "Doubters and downers".
Remember, for most of us, that topic is the only place where we can get any news at all, and the only news there is "nothing has happened since October 2". It's wonderful that there are some of you who are getting secret informal updates behind the scenes, but that's not the majority of people on this forum. That topic is it, and that topic doesn't say there's anything happening.
That may be what's contributing to the "Doubters and downers".
If there is still activity happening I seriously agree the first post of the "New efforts" topic should be changed to the suggested "no news, activity is ongoing" wording, rather than just the vague "no news is good news", because, as my job-hunting experience has shown, "no news" frequently just means they've forgotten about (or are ignoring) you.
It's clear at this point that you're all deliberately trying to misunderstand me and anyone else who doesn't have secret inside sources of information.
It's clear at this point that you're all deliberately trying to misunderstand me and anyone else who doesn't have secret inside sources of information.
Nate's thread does not have newer information than the New Efforts topic, so looking there doesn't change my point, and with all the talk of "these things take time and they're all on holiday and things move slow and don't rush NCSoft or they may get spooked and run off", they may think that no reply for two months is perfectly normal.
Basically, just read Ohioknight's post. He got everything I was trying to say
Do you really believe that if NCSoft was blowing them off. They wouldn't be able to tell that and wouldn't tell us that?
I am hopeful that we will hear an announcement within the next few months
Who said I didn't "grok" it? Now you're making assumptions about what I do and don't understand.
I suppose next you're going to tell me that making unwarranted assumptions, a condescending "HEL-LO!" and oversimplification is not insulting, either. Well, if you say so.
Now go read what I said again: insulting people is not going to make them any more patient.
For me, I just can't get my head around the idea that NCSoft is sitting on a dead IP (CoH). An IP that is making them ZERO cash at the moment. For all intents and purposes it's on a shelf collecting dust. A group of people come along and say hey, we would love to give you some money to buy the rights to run that IP in its current state. We don't want to change it, or improve it much. Just run it as it was when you turned it off. NCSoft goes, hmm, maybe, but do all these things first to prove you are competent. These people jump through some hoops, prove they can handle running the game. Then are made to wait. And wait. And wait.
I don't care if it's Korean culture or not. It's horribly rude to make people wait for an answer to something that will give NCSoft revenue whereas none was being made before.
People assuming NCSoft is going slow... I'm sorry where did you get that information from?Um, I already explained where people are getting that idea - from the topic which is supposed to keep us updated, but hasn't had any meaningful updates since the 2nd of October. (It's since been explained that there's still stuff happening, but it's still not in the topic that's supposed to keep us up to date)
Are you sure it's not negotiations on both parties slowing things down? Are you aware of any of the actual negotiations that are transpiring? Can you tell me the date that NCSoft last spoke to the team..No, but I can look at a topic that is supposed to be keeping us up to date, and see that there's been no apparent movement since October 2nd.
No... oh that's right... you are making assumptions and putting your guess out there as factual... every time you state NCSoft is moving slowly/dragging their feet/etc... you have NO idea why the negotiations are taking so long... just know this... negotiations are continually ongoing... until the deal is signed... by BOTH parties involved.No, now you're making assumptions. For the third time, here is the most recent information the majority of us have:
UPDATE October 2 2014:"The ball is in NCSoft's court" and "no change" doesn't at all sound like "talks and activity are still ongoing", it sounds like the team has beeb waiting for a response since October 2nd. That's not an assumption, that's called "making deductions based on known data".
Proof of developer viability was submitted and accepted. The ball is in NCsoft's court while they assess the group's expertise and backing. No news is good news.
(Update Dec 14: No change.)
I'm so tired of the negative assumptions when people have been given quite a few facts.
UPDATE October 2 2014:
Proof of developer viability was submitted and accepted. The ball is in NCsoft's court while they assess the group's expertise and backing. No news is good news.
(Update Dec 14: No change.)
This runs contrary to the entitlement mentality you may have been brought up with. CoH belongs to THEM. They can sell it with whatever deal they wish to make.
Thunder Glove you have made your point. Stop beating a dead horse. I am tired of seeing you regurgitate the same post ad nauseum. Give it a rest! The deal is ongoing. Whether or nor they put that in the update post or not is irrelevant. They are under Non Disclosure Agreements which means they cannot discuss details of the deal. That is not gonna change no matter how much you whine and bemoan it. MOVE ON!
For me, I just can't get my head around the idea that NCSoft is sitting on a dead IP (CoH). An IP that is making them ZERO cash at the moment. For all intents and purposes it's on a shelf collecting dust. A group of people come along and say hey, we would love to give you some money to buy the rights to run that IP in its current state. We don't want to change it, or improve it much. Just run it as it was when you turned it off. NCSoft goes, hmm, maybe, but do all these things first to prove you are competent. These people jump through some hoops, prove they can handle running the game. Then are made to wait. And wait. And wait.
I don't care if it's Korean culture or not. It's horribly rude to make people wait for an answer to something that will give NCSoft revenue whereas none was being made before.
Not a whole lot happens in 90% of the business world during the holiday season. This is no real exception.
And there's not much point in updating that page to simply say that... Yep, Stuff that can't be talked about it still happening.
A big part of the issue I think is that people don't realize there's a big difference in perspective going on. Normally when a group or company announces something...It's not early in the process. Things are already most of the way to being finished.
Here you've got an unprecedented deal that's being worked on, so there's no policy or set standards to work with, that was made public very early on in the dealings.
What I can say about the going ons behind the curtain is limited. I can say that I'm not at all worried about the outcome.
couldn't agree more. I'm sure the shareholders want some ROI for the ip.
Except they aren't JUST sitting on the IP... they are involved in active negotiations for it's sale... just saying.
Thunder Glove you have made your point. Stop beating a dead horse. I am tired of seeing you regurgitate the same post ad nauseum. Give it a rest! The deal is ongoing. Whether or nor they put that in the update post or not is irrelevant. They are under Non Disclosure Agreements which means they cannot discuss details of the deal. That is not gonna change no matter how much you whine and bemoan it. MOVE ON!I only repeated the same point because, right after making my post, someone else repeated "I don't understand how anyone could make the assumption that nothing is happening." It's not "beating a dead horse" if the horse is still asking questions. (... bad analogy, I know)
Not a whole lot happens in 90% of the business world during the holiday season.
Except they aren't JUST sitting on the IP... they are involved in active negotiations for it's sale... just saying.
Not a whole lot happens in 90% of the business world during the holiday season. This is no real exception.
<snip>...
Here you've got an unprecedented deal that's being worked on, ...<snip>
What facts? It's great that you are being fed secret behind-the-scenes information that indicates that things are still happening, but the majority of us aren't getting that, and we can only make deductions based on the facts we do have And, again, the facts we do have are the following:
Sure, in this topic, you and others have repeatedly stated that the negotiations are still ongoing, which is great, but what I'm saying is that that bit of information should be put into the topic that is supposed to be keeping us up to date on what's going on. It should say "no news, but negotiations are ongoing", not "no news is good news!", because the latter is a meaningless cliche.
The first post is the best way to find information without having to crawl around thing that does'nt interrest me at all.That's the point of the first post.
Ironwolf: NCSoft does not feel they owe you anything. This runs contrary to the entitlement mentality you may have been brought up with. CoH belongs to THEM. They can sell it with whatever deal they wish to make. You don't care about their culture - but they do. This exact attitude is what ended the first deal, that people injected negative attitudes instead of positive and thankful ones.
. . . <Snip!> NC thinks CoX is theirs, and how dare we.
The playerbase thinks "this is mine!" because we as customers, paid for every part of our experience. The game didn't just suddenly appear and it was totally free: nope. We players PAID to play. We purchased what we got. For literally years.
One becomes attached to items one has purchased, especially ones associated with happy memories. And hence one might become indignant when that item is snatched away, especially when no real reason is given. This is a fundamental tenet of suppliers vs consumers, and one that NC [or any other company originating in a foreign culture] would do well to keep in mind. The brain does not rule the heart, really. The heart wants what it wants. <Snip!>. . .
Exactly the way I feel.
People complain that some of us have a false "sense of entitlement", but in fact I do feel that way.
Like so many others I purchased City of Heroes, City of Villains and Going Rogue. I had two paid accounts and later a third (free) account. When City of Heroes went "Free to Play" it was "Forever", only forever really wasn't.
I am used to owning the things I buy, be it a book, a car or even a meal, it is mine and it still feels like theft when someone takes it away.
Yes, I am aware that NCSoft was really selling a service, but that does not lessen those feelings or my sense of entitlement, I do have the physical boxes with the DVDs (And some Klix) after all!
I am confident that the game will return, but I really don't grok why it is taking so long, I will wait, I have no choice but to wait, but I can still give voice to my disappointment at being forced to wait for something that I feel is already mine. . . ;)
When City of Heroes went "Free to Play" it was "Forever", only forever really wasn't.
First of all, I was under the assumption that this thread was created for the less...positive...members to voice their opinions and concerns. If that's the case, I don't understand why other members come swooping down from on high to tell us to stop being negative and shake their disapproving fingers at us. These elite few who know things but can't talk about them, which is understandable, need to realize that we don't have the privilege of insider information. You might full well know that talks are ongoing, things are being brokered, finer points are being ironed out. But the "lesser" members who are outside this circle don't have this info available to us. We just keep getting "Date xxxx - no change" after months of sitting on the last bit of info which basically said "we are waiting for NCSoft to make the next move".
Though I very much appreciate a direct response from Ironwolf, and I also appreciate the fact that he's likely had to answer these same questions over and over again (I'm sure it's running thin on his patience by now), I do NOT appreciate the tone of the response and I feel like assumptions were made about me. To point - I don't feel like NCSoft owes me a bloody thing, and the fact that they themselves feel the same way shows a painful lack of empathy to its consumer base. I willingly gave hard earned money and years of my life to that fantastic game CoH, and for them to just up and pull the plug and rub salt in that wound by never fully addressing why they did it, proves 100% that they don't think they owe me anything.
I was not raised with an "entitlement mentality", and I am not of that generation that you might assume has been. The only mentality I was raised with was the one that has something to do with knowing where to draw the line when it comes to principle. Yes, they hold the cards in this deal. But the fact that they know this, and are taking full advantage of it, is what irks me. I don't like bullies, and I don't like people who think they have power over others. And no, the game does not belong to me, and I have no grounds to stake a claim that any part of it does, save the friends and memories and good times I made during my time there. But far too much is being explained by "Korean culture" and tip-toeing around on eggshells in fear of scaring them off if too many questions get asked or someone pushes harder than they should.
Respect for "culture" should go both ways.
Like so many others I purchased City of Heroes, City of Villains and Going Rogue. I had two paid accounts and later a third (free) account. When City of Heroes went "Free to Play" it was "Forever", only forever really wasn't.
"This is the clearest case of false advertising since my lawsuit against the film 'The Never-Ending Story'!"Exactly this. As much as i hate the waiting i'm actually feeling optimistic about a 2015 relaunch.
Exactly this. As much as i hate the waiting i'm actually feeling optimistic about a 2015 relaunch.
I concur.
In general, I have really good feelings about 2015 and 2016 for the superhero MMO genre.
If I'm wrong, there will still be Black Desert sometime next year or the year after haha.
Don't hold your breath for BD. It's a Korean game. As pretty as it is, it will be a pay2win grindfest full of hacks and bots, just like ArcheAge is.
Sure, in this topic, you and others have repeatedly stated that the negotiations are still ongoing, which is great, but what I'm saying is that that bit of information should be put into the topic that is supposed to be keeping us up to date on what's going on. It should say "no news, but negotiations are ongoing", not "no news is good news!", because the latter is a meaningless cliche.Not a bad point actually. It did read that "We submitted information Oct 2nd and are still waiting". The new update definitely paints a more accurate picture of what is going on. If I read that first post I would probably wonder the same thing you did. We don't have anything better to do than ponder the meaning of updates really...might as well make them reflect more of the true situation and maybe give a clue to this sort of thing:
What I can say about the going ons behind the curtain is limited. I can say that I'm not at all worried about the outcome.That's a very cheerful vibe!
Yes, they hold the cards in this deal. But the fact that they know this, and are taking full advantage of it, is what irks me. I don't like bullies, and I don't like people who think they have power over others. And no, the game does not belong to me, and I have no grounds to stake a claim that any part of it does, save the friends and memories and good times I made during my time there. But far too much is being explained by "Korean culture" and tip-toeing around on eggshells in fear of scaring them off if too many questions get asked or someone pushes harder than they should.In the spirit of this thread, that's really my one complaint about NCSoft. Seems like a terrible way to do business....demand the entire world submit your cultural traditions. ...And not only that....not really make it known beforehand that straying from those traditions will result in a door being slammed in your face. How do they stay in business?
Respect for "culture" should go both ways.
You would be better informed if you actually read ALL of the thread in question (and the other one) and not just the first post, which doesn't always get updated with all the tidbits that get said.I've seen people get the opposite advice when they come into one of those long threads and ask a question. No one says "read all 600+ pages"...they say, "Read the first post".
Just sayin'. Don't be lazy and you'd be better informed.
*snip*
In the spirit of this thread, that's really my one complaint about NCSoft. Seems like a terrible way to do business....demand the entire world submit your cultural traditions. ...And not only that....not really make it known beforehand that straying from those traditions will result in a door being slammed in your face. How do they stay in business?
And the "bully" part is something I suspect as well. Because I highly doubt they would refuse a call from Bill Gates because he didn't acquire the proper "introduction". Yeah right....this is only happening because they are in a position of power....which sounds exactly like a bully. Hey, maybe I'm wrong...maybe they would give Gates the brush-off too. :roll:
I've seen people get the opposite advice when they come into one of those long threads and ask a question. No one says "read all 600+ pages"...they say, "Read the first post".
I've seen people get the opposite advice when they come into one of those long threads and ask a question. No one says "read all 600+ pages"...they say, "Read the first post".
Well, it summarises most of the info, sure. But to get it all, you really DO need to read the whole thread. What info there is often comes out in off the cuff sentences etc, and that stuff tends to not get reposted in the first post. Things like having to tread softly softly with Korean companies and needing the right intro and things still progressing even though we're not seeing anything, likely due to NDA's...
How do they stay in business?
The last solid slip of info that came out before this thread began was the offhand comment that said something like "nothing is happening until the big ******ber 12th meeting" and when two *****ber 12ths went by with absolutely no indication of any activity of any kind, even as we came up on the third, I crashed and cried and began wondering if all activity had simply stopped but nobody was willing to admit it because, like a dumped girlfriend, "they might call any day now..." :gonk:
At this point, the most reasonable course of action is to assume that nothing is going to happen this calendar year. NCSoft has next to zero incentive to prioritize this over any other initiative.
Personally, I'm going to be pleasantly surprised if the I23 environment ever sees the light of day.
Of course, the other sad part is that, even if this all goes through without a hitch, the game will still be a pale shadow of its former self. I'll happily play I23 forever, but it'll still be tinged with sadness knowing that I24 will never appear on the revived server(s), let alone other future content, like the unfinished powersets (I was really looking forward to Wind Control and the five Origin Power Pools) and storylines (the Batallion, Scirocco's heroic turn, Manticore's continual slide into villainy - heck, even the final chapter of SSA2 isn't available in I23).i suggest reading the "New Efforts!" and "The Mask Comes Off" threads sometime. As has been an ongoing topic of discussion there for several months once the game is purchased and relaunching efforts are started they will also be porting the game over to UE4 in order to continue development. Irish_Girl has already started working on rebuilding the game zones in UE4, and once the IP is secured efforts to recreate the game in a modern engine will being in earnest. The goal is to create CoH 1.5, which will be as accurate of a remake of the original as possible, but with far greater capabilities to modify and expand the game.
Still, I can't complain about 99% of a loaf.
i suggest reading the "New Efforts!" and "The Mask Comes Off" threads sometime. As has been an ongoing topic of discussion there for several months once the game is purchased and relaunching efforts are started they will also be porting the game over to UE4 in order to continue development. Irish_Girl has already started working on rebuilding the game zones in UE4, and once the IP is secured efforts to recreate the game in a modern engine will being in earnest. The goal is to create CoH 1.5, which will be as accurate of a remake of the original as possible, but with far greater capabilities to modify and expand the game.
Seriously, read those threads, the plans to continue CoH's development were made and announced and discussed ad nauseum months before this thread was created.
I will add that Irish Girl made a pinky swear to include I24 in the CoH 1.5 running on UE4.
But the game will never be what it was before the shutdown again.
I'm looking forward to Irish Girl's project, but that's not the original game. It's essentially a new game in a new engine that takes assets from the old game. It'll take a while just to re-add all of the things the old game had, let alone start adding new storylines, new powersets, new "issues" - and let alone adding them at the same rate that they were being added in the original game.
This isn't a slam on Irish Girl, mind you. Don't interpret it as that.
But the game will never be what it was before the shutdown again.
I think that if NC Soft were really interested in selling CoX, they would have done it by now. I think Windows 10 will be out later this year and I'm told that CoX won't run on Windows 10...
I think that if NC Soft were really interested in selling CoX, they would have done it by now. I think Windows 10 will be out later this year and I'm told that CoX won't run on Windows 10...
I think that if NC Soft were really interested in selling CoX, they would have done it by now. I think Windows 10 will be out later this year and I'm told that CoX won't run on Windows 10...You were told wrong.
I know about Atlas Park Revival already, and I've been following (and replying in) both the New Efforts and The Mask Comes Off threads ever since they started, so I'm already well familiar with them.I dunno about that. IG has made it pretty clear that her intent is to recreate CoH as it was....just in a new engine. It should play exactly the same with the same powers, effects, numbers, etc. It'll just be new and shiny.
I'm looking forward to Irish Girl's project, but that's not the original game. It's essentially a new game in a new engine that takes assets from the old game. It'll take a while just to re-add all of the things the old game had, let alone start adding new storylines, new powersets, new "issues" - and let alone adding them at the same rate that they were being added in the original game.
This isn't a slam on Irish Girl, mind you. Don't interpret it as that.
But the game will never be what it was before the shutdown again.
I think that if NC Soft were really interested in selling CoX, they would have done it by now. I think Windows 10 will be out later this year and I'm told that CoX won't run on Windows 10...
TBH IronWolf, if people don't get it by now, they're not going to get it, ever. So, I say let 'em stew in their own doubts.
That is not the feeling that appears to be coming out of the people involved - quiet optimism and certainty that it will all work out is what I am seeing.
The trouble is you personally are setting your own time period on the deal.
My concern isn't so much *if* it's happening (as has been already said many times, it never would have gotten this far if they had no intention of selling), so much as *how* it's going to happen if the deal is set.
Things like:
How many servers? I doubt that the game will have the population to support the same number of servers as it had (It barely did in the first place, most of the time a good number of the servers were ghost towns)
Are the f2p restrictions going to be the exact same as they were on live?
How will veteran rewards/past purchases be handled? I think it's safe to say that getting intact character data/account data is pretty unlikely at this point, so will everyone be starting from scratch on that front, or will they try to work something out?
Is "CoH 1.5" still the plan?
I know this may be a bit inappropriate to ask in this thread, but I greatly prefer this thread's atmosphere to that of the other two: Skepticism is healthy, and even if IW has been curt in some of his replies (putting it nicely), it shows that he does actually care about this, and I appreciate it for that.
My concern isn't so much *if* it's happening (as has been already said many times, it never would have gotten this far if they had no intention of selling), so much as *how* it's going to happen if the deal is set.
Things like:
How many servers? I doubt that the game will have the population to support the same number of servers as it had (It barely did in the first place, most of the time a good number of the servers were ghost towns)
Are the f2p restrictions going to be the exact same as they were on live?
How will veteran rewards/past purchases be handled? I think it's safe to say that getting intact character data/account data is pretty unlikely at this point, so will everyone be starting from scratch on that front, or will they try to work something out?
Is "CoH 1.5" still the plan?
I know this may be a bit inappropriate to ask in this thread, but I greatly prefer this thread's atmosphere to that of the other two: Skepticism is healthy, and even if IW has been curt in some of his replies (putting it nicely), it shows that he does actually care about this, and I appreciate it for that.
I would like it up and running tomorrow.
I don't set any timeline - I don't say this year or next or never - I say Soon.
My concern isn't so much *if* it's happening (as has been already said many times, it never would have gotten this far if they had no intention of selling), so much as *how* it's going to happen if the deal is set.
Things like:
How many servers? I doubt that the game will have the population to support the same number of servers as it had (It barely did in the first place, most of the time a good number of the servers were ghost towns)
Are the f2p restrictions going to be the exact same as they were on live?
How will veteran rewards/past purchases be handled? I think it's safe to say that getting intact character data/account data is pretty unlikely at this point, so will everyone be starting from scratch on that front, or will they try to work something out?
Is "CoH 1.5" still the plan?
I know this may be a bit inappropriate to ask in this thread, but I greatly prefer this thread's atmosphere to that of the other two: Skepticism is healthy, and even if IW has been curt in some of his replies (putting it nicely), it shows that he does actually care about this, and I appreciate it for that.
I would like to see only 4-5 servers personally and so NO ONE gets butt hurt... brand new names for each server.
RP Server (think Virtue)
Min/Max & pvp Server (like Freedom)
EU Server
etc
There was a thread... that contained a lot of people's ideas for new server names. The reason I think they should be renamed is: No matter what servers "get cut" someone will complain. So if you start with 4-5 servers with brand new names... no one can say "Hey my home server got cut!!!!!" My only hope is that the new servers are "explained" before/at launch so people like me who stayed as far away from RP as possible don't end up rolling toons on the RP server.
As for vet rewards etc... No clue what they plan. I would hope they plan different packages so to speak. Like $15 gets you a copy of the game and x amount of vet rewards. $30 copy of game and x+6 vet rewards, etc etc.
Please realize if I do get curt - it is because I have answered the same questions often hundreds of times. I try answering them in different ways and yet in many cases people just read what they want to read. I know you aren't aware but you get everything from let me buy you stuff to threats to come to your house and attack you.
In between we have a deal going but many of the questions about servers and finance - I want to know myself :)
I don't know if this has been suggested, but perhaps a thread containing a FAQ which consolidates all of this information. In the future, your only answer would be "Please refer to the FAQ located here".there is a time line to look at when it comes to the events. Look for wolf's post. http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,9675.0.html
I would like to see only 4-5 servers personally and so NO ONE gets butt hurt... brand new names for each server.
That all sounds remarkably sensible and very workable -- personally I'd hope that they added character slots per server to the subscription plans or fee structure -- so RP players who wanted 100-some characters could buy 100 slots on the RP server (or whatever)
Changing server names requires patching the client, and recompiling a binary file that whoever buys it probably won't get the tools to do. If they ask for community help it might be possible because there are a couple people who know the format well enough to both read and write it, but it would be much easier to simply re-use one of the old server names.
More than 48 characters per server is simply impossible without source code.
I think what folks don't know is that this is new type of deal to NCSoft.
It also is basically 3 startup companies that NCSoft is going to check once, twice and three times to make sure they are capable.
1. CoT - new company with zero previous products under their wing at least as this entity.
2. CoH Unreal Version - is also brand new with literally no business plan on how to actually run the game at this point.
3. The steward company who will be hosting CoH Classic.
All of these are new. They may have capable people but no track record. NCSoft is not going to just throw the software at them and cash the check (or cheque). So it will take time to hash it out and make sure that it is going to operate as envisioned. When we say no news is good news it means that slowly but surely things are going forward. If things fall apart I have no doubt we would hear quickly.
That is not the feeling that appears to be coming out of the people involved - quiet optimism and certainty that it will all work out is what I am seeing.
I am not entirely sure what difficulty there would be in changing the names of the servers. The level in entering the game is before you even create a character and we know the character names can change. However, I admit my ignorance on this matter.I believe what Codewalker is referring to is the fact that the server names are not just in simple configuration files, but are baked into the graphics in the client and probably used in many places in various resource files (i.e. pigg and bin files). So its possible to change, but it would require a lot of work for dubious benefit, plus you'd have to redistribute that modified client to everyone who wanted to play the game.
I believe what Codewalker is referring to is the fact that the server names are not just in simple configuration files, but are baked into the graphics in the client and probably used in many places in various resource files (i.e. pigg and bin files). <snip!>
I guess I had automatically assumed that a new client would be required. It seems logical to me that owners would want their mark on the splash screen and it would need to point at the new IP (They wouldn't be using the original IP address would they?). . .
Oh how droll. Simple configuration files are simple people. Another lesson for programmers.
That is my understanding that NCSoft doesn't know where all of this stuff might even be - now a former Dev after sale may be of some help.
Because not having it is a nice way to work to lower the purchase price.
*IF* they bothered to archive anything from the development workstations/fileserver, I doubt they even know what they have. That tends to happen when you fire an entire development team all at once and don't keep anybody who knows how any of it was set up.
A former dev is only useful if they kept something they weren't supposed to, and if the terms of the license agreement negotiated as part of the IP purchase allow for the use of materials that were not included and presumed destroyed, but later recovered, while indemnifying the source who would otherwise be on the hook for IP theft and contract violation. Given the bad blood around the shutdown, getting NCsoft to agree to such a clause might be quite difficult.
My gut feeling is that NCsoft may not know the details of the development tools, does have the source code and knows where that is (source code repositories are easy to identify, and would have been a high profile thing to keep track of), but is not willing to part with it for any price due to internal politics. They probably have the source for the tools in the repo, but no one with the knowledge required to use it to compile binaries for them. Hence the server image, which is similar to how they license some of their games for third parties to operate in Europe.
I agree NCSoft - at least the guys who have it now likely have no idea what they even have beyond the source code and little to no desire to unpack all the stuff to find it. To be fair the people they have at the dead storage department are likely not coders just basically file clerks.
*IF* they bothered to archive anything from the development workstations/fileserver, I doubt they even know what they have. That tends to happen when you fire an entire development team all at once and don't keep anybody who knows how any of it was set up.
A former dev is only useful if they kept something they weren't supposed to, and if the terms of the license agreement negotiated as part of the IP purchase allow for the use of materials that were not included and presumed destroyed, but later recovered, while indemnifying the source who would otherwise be on the hook for IP theft and contract violation. Given the bad blood around the shutdown, getting NCsoft to agree to such a clause might be quite difficult.
My gut feeling is that NCsoft may not know the details of the development tools, does have the source code and knows where that is (source code repositories are easy to identify, and would have been a high profile thing to keep track of), but is not willing to part with it for any price due to internal politics. They probably have the source for the tools in the repo, but no one with the knowledge required to use it to compile binaries for them. Hence the server image, which is similar to how they license some of their games for third parties to operate in Europe.
They're not file clerks, they are Configuration Management specialists. :)
I don't know... that's sayin a lot. :)Very nice logical post, Mike.
Here's how I've looked at this news since the day it hit. I've worked in software now for 20 years (scary thought) and in all that time there is only one thing I have 100% learned to count on. Nothing is ever a done deal until it's out the door and shipped - and even that is pushing it.
But that doesn't mean you don't push forward. If you don't nothing gets done. Nothing gets shipped. No software ever gets made. I've worked for companies that had the money, the resources, the legal, the you name it - to do anything they wanted and make it happen if they wanted to - with total backing from all the way up the chain on a project, only to come in one morning and see the ever so bright project - shelved. I've also seen them go from having nothing going on, to completed and out the door in 3 months.
There are no done deals. Ever. There are no closed deals. Ever. The only thing you can rely on is that if someone, somewhere, has the drive and the ambition, a bit of luck and a hell of a lot of moxy driving to something they really want, then it can happen, and often does.
You've got a lot of people wanting to make this happen. You've got people working very hard and doing it right - they're not being children and demanding. They're showing the right amount of interest and attention, they're speaking to the right people, and they're capable of not blinking. They understand that the people who hold the cards in this aren't on their time table and aren't on their schedule. We need to understand that too.
Patience sucks. It's hard to be a good fisherman, a good hunter, or a good businessman. You have to set things in motion and wait. Nudge them along. Wait. Look for when things are too quiet and nudge a bit more. Wait.
When the moment is right ... you get what you want. Hearing nothing is good. There are only two sounds you need to listen for... the sound of someone giving up, and the sound for someone saying "Yes". The rest, is just patience and background noise.
Ironwolf and all the folks who have worked so hard for so long on this have earned a lot of trust and respect for good reasons. My thanks to them for their dedication and patience.
Please realize if I do get curt - it is because I have answered the same questions often hundreds of times. I try answering them in different ways and yet in many cases people just read what they want to read. I know you aren't aware but you get everything from let me buy you stuff to threats to come to your house and attack you.Sorry for replying late to this (I don't get a lot of chance to actually read these threads), but don't take it the wrong way. Nothing wrong with getting a little short in an environment like this. If anything, it makes me respect you for dealing with it instead of writing a long soliloquy about how terrible the community is and calling it quits.
In between we have a deal going but many of the questions about servers and finance - I want to know myself :)
Ironwolf (not trying to pick on ya Wolf,,these things just poke me in the side,,I usually do enjoy your posts) posted in this thread," This exact attitude is what ended the first deal, that people injected negative attitudes instead of positive and thankful ones"
When at the time all that was supposedly needed was just one signature. You call this respectable business?
Yet having worked in Korea, I know business elite their are above the laws and so act like little kings. That doesn't mean I have to respect them or bow to them.
But if you want something from them, doesn't that mean you kind of have to? Just saying...
It means if you were stuck with the option of dealing with them the first time,,,you would be leery of dealing with them again in the future if at all.
Then their would be no return of City of Heroes.
You don't know all of what happened in the first deal and I am not throwing anyone under the bus. Business is not personal, you are taking this personally. You don't trust them, however you also aren't in on the deal and neither am I.
I don't want to be "in the know" - I want the group to do as they have been doing - act like grown ups and be respectful and thankful that a huge multi-national multi-billion dollar company will make a deal with start up companies.
I know some of you can't get past your anger at NCSoft - fair enough. I have repeatedly tried to tell you that NCSoft is not spiteful about the game. In the last days some of the folks dealing with NCSoft burned a lot of bridges and as I have said before - I will never sell the game to you - is not the same as I will never sell the game.
Enough time passed and people changed to have a new group go in and make an offer. NCSoft said maybe, wait a bit until we get this new product out the door - then they started dealing and making arrangements. I can't change your mind on NCSoft, that's up to you. All I can say is the first group angered NCSoft and so it all fell apart. Now another team is doing this the way NCSoft has asked for.
Do you want the game back or not?
I give up - you must be right its all an NCSoft plot. Move on to another game.
Except you posted the same things on EVERY thread.
You also never listen. You have an agenda. You aren't trying to understand just saying I won't pay again. Do you watch TV? Do you pay a cable or dish bill? If so you pay monthly for the same content.
This is entertainment and you either want to play CoH for entertainment or you don't - your choice once it comes back.