And the mask comes off.

[Codewalker]

Except, the second movie was NOT a remake of Wrath of Khan.  It was a remake of Space Seed. 

Except for the dialogue that they ripped directly from Wrath of Khan. What pisses me off most is that it could have been a much better movie if it had been an original plot without trying so hard to shoehorn all the references where they didn't really fit.

I still like the HISHE take on it -- the Federation retires all starships because of interplanetary transporters, and refocuses on geriatric care because Khan's superblood cures death.

[Codewalker]

The one that is most like the original series is probably my least favorite, Star Trek The Motion Picture.

Because it took what should have been a 45 minute episode and stretched it into a 2 hour movie? ;)

Just a rehash of Nomad anyway...

[Mistress Urd]

I saved my INF, after being dragged to the first JJ Abrams Star Trek there was no way I would waste my time and money on the 2nd.

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

I would rank Battlefield Earth up there in the top something list of incompetent horibad movies.

The book was great, if a bit long at 1050 pages. the movie (only half of the book) was just... *shudders*

I feel sorry for the actors that were in the movie.

Tastes vary. It was about twenty years ago that i read the novel and i thought it mediocre at best. It was an uninspired pastiche of far better pulp scifi novels. This was based on having read quite a few scifi stories from the 1930s onward.

To be fair i should go back and reread it some day to make sure it's not because i've conflated it since then with some of the dozens of tepid novels Hubbard wrote postmortem and the vicious nuttery of the scam he started. It would also be a good excuse to reread EE 'Doc' Smith's Skylark series as well for comparison. (The Skylark series was a fun romp anyway inasmuch as it had a level of power creep that made Dragonball Z seem tame; it was somewhere closer to Gurrenn Lagann.)

[Noyjitat]

And yet.. Supergirl was WORSE..

And supergirl has sadly gone steadily downhill since. Really pisses me off too because she's my favorite DC female... I won't get into how the new shittytwo has ruined her.

[Sinistar]

Except, the second movie was NOT a remake of Wrath of Khan.  It was a remake of Space Seed. 

Don't worry, most people make that same mistake.

I thought the movie was entertaining enough, in a don't think about it, kinda way, until the new Spock called the old Spock on the super-duper interstellar skype to get the down-low on what this khan fella was all about... Stopped the movie dead in its tracks, that did.

Well we had to get one last appearance of Nimoy as Spock.

Plus I did get a chuckle out of how he reminded nu Spock that he promised to never give him information that could alter his destiny, that it is his path to walk.  Then says "That being said, Khan Noonian Singh is the most dangerous foe the Enterprise ever faced!"

Also his response when asked if they defeated Khan "At great cost, yes."

At great cost......talk about a massive understatement. 

[Pengy]

I would rank Battlefield Earth up there in the top something list of incompetent horibad movies.

The book was great, if a bit long at 1050 pages. the movie (only half of the book) was just... *shudders*

I feel sorry for the actors that were in the movie.

I thought the book was the worst juvenile novel masquerading as a pulp adventure I've ever bothered to finish. Seriously, the Psychlos' supremacy is based on no one in the entire Galaxy being smart enough to defeat their 60's-era Programmable Read-Only Memory "security" until the cavemen who hadn't heard of electricity a week previously decrypted it with their Yankee ingenuity beginner's luck? All sharks are lawyers, because why not? Careful avoidance of any concepts a 7th-grader might not be familiar with? Give me a break.

Saved me a couple hours of watching the movie, though.

[Pengy]

They were bad, yes; but they pale in comparison to the horror that is Superman IV.   That movie is Highlander 2 bad.

And yet.. Supergirl was WORSE..

I rank them Superman II, Superman, Supergirl, ..., Superman III, big space to fill in with movies you don't like, Superman IV.

[HEATSTROKE]

 There was no Superman IV...  (or at least I believe that I have a mental block that doesnt allow me to actually acknowledge it.. or that I actually watched i)

[Arcana]

Except, the second movie was NOT a remake of Wrath of Khan.  It was a remake of Space Seed. 

Except for the dialogue that they ripped directly from Wrath of Khan.

I consider Into Darkness to be more of a reference-ladened homage, and not really a remake of either the episode or the movie.  Its more of a remix of both, compressed into a single movie.

What pisses me off most is that it could have been a much better movie if it had been an original plot without trying so hard to shoehorn all the references where they didn't really fit.

I don't think its the references themselves that hurt the movie, its the fact that the Abrams versions of the characters are not strong enough on their own yet to carry that kind of story.  I personally liked the first one, but I will admit there wasn't enough character development in it to make audiences care enough about the characters to put them into Into Darkness.  I think Wrath of Khan works because Kirk, Spock, and the rest are veteran, almost grizzled characters that needed and could stand up to a threat like Khan.  But Khan really should have wiped the floor with what were by comparison the children those characters were.  Khan was as much about the past catching up with the original Kirk and crew in Wrath of Khan as anything, whereas a lot of that gravitas doesn't exist story-wise in Into Darkness.

[Arcana]

Plus I did get a chuckle out of how he reminded nu Spock that he promised to never give him information that could alter his destiny, that it is his path to walk.  Then says "That being said, Khan Noonian Singh is the most dangerous foe the Enterprise ever faced!"

Also his response when asked if they defeated Khan "At great cost, yes."

At great cost......talk about a massive understatement.

I'm reminded here about what I said about Watchmen earlier.  Defeating Khan was pretty costly, but if you think about it if Khan hadn't tried to kill Kirk, who knows where Kirk and crew would have been when the alien probe came to Earth.  It was very fortunate that Kirk was on his way to Earth when the probe arrived - close enough to intervene but not actually at Earth and disabled, also fortunate that Spock recognized the whale songs which might have been more probable given his recent re-education, and also fortunate they were traveling in a ship they could retrofit into an aquarium to transport the whales back to Earth.  Khan's story doesn't end with the death of Spock, or the destruction of the Enterprise; it never ends.

[darkgob]

I'm reminded here about what I said about Watchmen earlier.  Defeating Khan was pretty costly, but if you think about it if Khan hadn't tried to kill Kirk, who knows where Kirk and crew would have been when the alien probe came to Earth.  It was very fortunate that Kirk was on his way to Earth when the probe arrived - close enough to intervene but not actually at Earth and disabled, also fortunate that Spock recognized the whale songs which might have been more probable given his recent re-education, and also fortunate they were traveling in a ship they could retrofit into an aquarium to transport the whales back to Earth.  Khan's story doesn't end with the death of Spock, or the destruction of the Enterprise; it never ends.

"The trial never ends..."

[Vee]

There was no Superman IV...  (or at least I believe that I have a mental block that doesnt allow me to actually acknowledge it.. or that I actually watched i)

It was the one about nuclear something something where he fights the guy that looks vaguely like the Sentry.

[Remaugen]

I happened to like the JJ Abrams Star Trek Movies, at first I was peeved that they broke continuity, but I don't mind having a second parallel story line, as long as any future TV series (hopefully) remain loyal to the original continuity. . .

[Vee]

I happened to like the JJ Abrams Star Trek Movies, at first I was peeved that they broke continuity, but I don't mind having a second parallel story line, as long as any future TV series (hopefully) remain loyal to the original continuity. . .

I never saw into darkness - did they get rid of that pesky black hole in our solar system that wound up causing no problems whatsoever?

[Power Gamer]

I happened to like the JJ Abrams Star Trek Movies, at first I was peeved that they broke continuity, but I don't mind having a second parallel story line, as long as any future TV series (hopefully) remain loyal to the original continuity. . .

Sadly, continuity and canon are not to be found in Star Trek. By design. Gene was never constrained by it and never recognized it.

[Power Gamer]

"Gene R. himself had a habit of decanonizing things. He didn't like the way the animated series turned out, so he proclaimed that it was not canon. He also didn't like a lot of the movies. So he didn't much consider them canon either. And – okay, I'm really going to scare you with this one – after he got TNG going, he... well... he sort of decided that some of The Original Series wasn't canon either. I had a discussion with him once, where I cited a couple things that were very clearly canon in The Original Series, and he told me he didn't think that way anymore, and that he now thought of TNG as canon wherever there was conflict between the two. He admitted it was revisionist thinking, but so be it."[4]— Paula Block, 2005

[Noyjitat]

Sadly, continuity and canon are not to be found in Star Trek. By design. Gene was never constrained by it and never recognized it.

DS9, voyager and TNG all ran in a combined universe. You can find references to throughout all three series of the Cardassian occupation of Bajor, the Dominion, and Gamma Quadrant, Quarks bar in TNG and ofcourse ds9 and the maquis terrorist group appearning near the end of tng. The Enterprise even docks with ds9 at some point in tng and Data meets Dr. Bashir in the Enterprises sickbay. In Voyager the Doctor is sent through the Hirogen communication array where he meets another EMH who talks about the federation trying to get the Romulans involved with a war against the Dominion. I know I probably missed quite a few... But they each continued a story either in background or something that started in either tng or ds9. At one point all three series were being filmed simultaneously which helped with this.

[Noyjitat]

I happened to like the JJ Abrams Star Trek Movies, at first I was peeved that they broke continuity, but I don't mind having a second parallel story line, as long as any future TV series (hopefully) remain loyal to the original continuity. . .

This unfortunately never happens. It's like they choose to dump the old universe for a newer one in most cases.

And it isn't just the continuity that annoys me... it's just these were more like Starwars movies than star trek movies. Startrek had alot of relaxed scenes, life lessons, morals, hard choices among other things. It had a good balance while these new movies are just shoot it, kill it and blow it up.

As for future tv series... There was talk about a new show taking place shortly after the events of ds9 and voyager but it's been years since that information was first leaked. It was like they canned everything after star trek enterprise was canceled and given it's very piss poor final episode killing of a certain main character with one of the most pointless deaths in all of star trek.

[Sinistar]

"Gene R. himself had a habit of decanonizing things. He didn't like the way the animated series turned out, so he proclaimed that it was not canon. He also didn't like a lot of the movies. So he didn't much consider them canon either. And – okay, I'm really going to scare you with this one – after he got TNG going, he... well... he sort of decided that some of The Original Series wasn't canon either. I had a discussion with him once, where I cited a couple things that were very clearly canon in The Original Series, and he told me he didn't think that way anymore, and that he now thought of TNG as canon wherever there was conflict between the two. He admitted it was revisionist thinking, but so be it."[4]— Paula Block, 2005

Well when the original series was being made, they really didn't know what a frankenstein they were building, so if Gene wanted to toss away some of the dumber things that happened in TOS, so be it.

Example of dumb things: hippies take over the ship......

However he also showed in TNG that he wasn't bound by some events and always wanted the happy ending, the best example would be:

Best of Both Words part 1 and 2.  Picard is taken and turned into Locutus of Borg. With his aid the Borg destroy the bulk of the fleet at Wolf 359.  Locutus is taken by the Enterprise and after the Borg ship destroyed, Picard's mind is free and they deborg him.....

......and Picard is allowed to regain command of the flagship of the Federation.......

Yet years later after getting command of Enterprise-E, he is told by Admiral of Starfleet to NOT help Earth against a Borg attack......

Yeah okay, that is some screwed up logic.  Now granted as Locutus, Picard wasn 't in his right mind however he still has blood on his hands.  If I were in charge of Starfleet, I wouldn't care if the ship surgeon and counselor have certified him as capable of returning to command, I would NOT put him back in command of the Federation Flagship. 

Picard would instead become part of a new anti-Borg task force that is to research new ways to fight the Borg and also to monitor and study Picard to make sure Locutus is indeed gone.  I would also have telepaths scan his mind for any traces of Borg technology secrets that the Federation could use.