Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1748955 times)

Remaugen

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1820 on: September 10, 2014, 04:27:11 AM »
Definitely hoping. Kinda looking forward to rerolling some characters. Probably wouldn't do exact copies, but I can't say. I doubt I would ever get back to 15+ 50s like I had before, but who knows.


I am willing to start over if everyone else has too, but yet, I had some toons with a lotta love invested that I would love to get back if there is any way too.


Technically, this is irrelevant. But I'll mention it anyways.
I never got to try i24. My account was Premium when the shutdown notice came, and before that I had a policy of avoiding test until Issues went live. Preferred to experience the new content Live.

On to the more relevant part!
For starters, when it comes to some thing, Story especially... I'd prefer not to yay/nay anything just yet. My maybe wasn't a coy way of saying no, I've just not made a decision one way or the other.
I don't know the specifics of i24, I've neglected to go actually dig into the details quite yet. Personally, I consider it cannonical grey area.
It was content made by Paragon Studios, led by Positron. So that gives it serious weight.
However...it was not Live, finished content... So that means I can argue it's not canon.


I hope that at least some, if not most or all, of I24 and of the stuff planned mentioned in the Loregasms eventually makes it's way into the game. But it's understandable if it doesn't. Those writers are no longer participating in your project.



We're almost there!   ;D
We're almost there!  ;D

The RNG hates me.

chasearcanum

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1821 on: September 10, 2014, 04:38:29 AM »
No matter how good Sentinel is... It's unlikely any team that doesn't HATE their GMs and support staff would ever use it.

For starters, they will hear A LOT of rage like this:
"My CoH account was VIP until about a week before the shut down. By the Sentinel was available, I couldn't re-sub. So I only got like 5 of my characters. How is it fair that (Some guy) gets his 80 characters. It's not fair. "
(True story btw. Had to let my account slip because I had an extra few expenses that month. Only got a few of my 50s because of it.)
Now, they can either limit the number of Sentinel characters (Some guy) has to make me happy, or make (Some Guy) happy. Either way, You're the bad guy.

IF Sentinel was used, Which I'm not supporting. The best bet, I believe, would be to restore character name, inf, level, Bio, and powers/slots. No badges, no costumes.

I've been wondering about this.  I think we're going to attract a certain type of player back, and I'm not sure if it'll be the type that'll feel that "keeping up with the joneses" is THAT important.  What will be important to many is reuniting with the hero they lost... as they remember them.  Grinding all over again to get back that character- ALL the characters they lost- may discourage more from returning than people upset over the "they get x".

I think we can accomodate some of one without risking too much ire from others.  We all understand that there's going to be an expense to get this started up.  Some perks to people that contribute may be acceptable, while others may seem to be too much pay-to-win... but thoughts include:

- Reserve a name- contributors can reserve one name per contribution per week leading up to the official launch.
- Contributors could purchase an uber-xp-boost to make leveling negligible. 
- Contributors could get a reward of x000 Architect entertainment tickets (or task force rewards, etc), giving users the ability to redeem them for specific loot or take their chances and see what they get. (helps make up for the lost loot drops due to the rapid autoleveling).
- I know the dev tools included the ability to reward XP outright.  This was mostly used in betas to autolevel, but if introduced in moderation, it might be something that can become a well-managed reward to participants in events.  People that win community events- heck, people that CREATE and ORGANIZE community events could gain leveling rewards in some way, and I think, given the history of the game, very few would consider such contributions unearned.

Ankhammon

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1822 on: September 10, 2014, 04:42:14 AM »

I am willing to start over if everyone else has too, but yet, I had some toons with a lotta love invested that I would love to get back if there is any way too.



I hope that at least some, if not most or all, of I24 and of the stuff planned mentioned in the Loregasms eventually makes it's way into the game. But it's understandable if it doesn't. Those writers are no longer participating in your project.



We're almost there!   ;D

Just my opinion, but with all the stuff that was in I24, I would almost say it was game breaking. So many things at once, the only way I could see it working is by expanding the end game by a large amount. And that's what I think they had to have been up to near the end.


And I have to comment on "We're almost there!".

You happen to be a person who sees the glass as half full.
Others see it as half empty.
I look at the glass and say "OMG it's almost gone! We'll have to forage for liquids!... Hey, you look like you have some water over there...".
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

Pherdnut

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1823 on: September 10, 2014, 04:43:55 AM »
If I were on the negotiating team, it would still bug the crap out of me that nobody really knows why they shut it down in the first place.

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1824 on: September 10, 2014, 04:52:47 AM »
I hope that at least some, if not most or all, of I24 and of the stuff planned mentioned in the Loregasms eventually makes it's way into the game. But it's understandable if it doesn't. Those writers are no longer participating in your project.

CopyPasta from the Revival FAQ thread:

"Will your updates follow the plans laid down by Matt "Positron" Miller, and the other Paragon Studio's developers?
Personal, I have a great respect for Positron, and the rest of the dev team. However, It is unlikely that we'll stay exact to their plans. There wouldn't be any surprises!"
"Let's get dangerous..."
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Sermon

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1825 on: September 10, 2014, 04:54:01 AM »
If I were on the negotiating team, it would still bug the crap out of me that nobody really knows why they shut it down in the first place.

Perhaps the people who know can't talk about it. I suspect Ncsoft wasn't interested in any other projects PS was working on. They probably saw CoH as profitable, but didn't have a direction for the studio as a whole. If PS had another successful product on the horizon, we would probably see CoH at least in the state of GW currently.

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1826 on: September 10, 2014, 04:56:14 AM »
If I were on the negotiating team, it would still bug the crap out of me that nobody really knows why they shut it down in the first place.

I think the reasons are pretty well known. I can't remember much off hand...and I don't want to misinform, so I'll leave off for now.
"Let's get dangerous..."
Lead Developer and Master of Mischief - Revival Project.
Revival website: APR.Pc-Logix.com

Ankhammon

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1827 on: September 10, 2014, 05:04:48 AM »
I think the reasons are pretty well known. I can't remember much off hand...and I don't want to misinform, so I'll leave off for now.

And honestly, the team doesn't really need people who are still upset at the negotiating table. No need to add any animosity at this point.
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1828 on: September 10, 2014, 05:08:19 AM »
And honestly, the team doesn't really need people who are still upset at the negotiating table. No need to add any animosity at this point.

It could only serve to make things more difficult, honestly. It's hard to deal in that manner if you're harboring that kind of resentment, or anger.
"Let's get dangerous..."
Lead Developer and Master of Mischief - Revival Project.
Revival website: APR.Pc-Logix.com

FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1829 on: September 10, 2014, 05:10:42 AM »
Nothing specific is known/declared about who will run the Legacy servers.  That's a common misread.  It's still a negotiation point.

You expect a one woman operation (no disrespect to Irish_Girl), to develop APR -and- run the legacy game, on her own? Riiiiiight...

My post was based on what Nate said.  The current plan is for the holding company to run the legacy game.  That might change, but that's the intended plan.

Harpospoke

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1830 on: September 10, 2014, 05:11:03 AM »
Stop rhyming! I mean it!

<.<
>.>

...anybody want a peanut?
*like*

Harpospoke

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1831 on: September 10, 2014, 05:12:50 AM »
I didn't read all the comments. So I just wanted to Thank everyone who had anything to do with this.

It's not a done deal yet but atleasts it's something.

One question I saw asked was what's everyone going to do. When all these games are out?

For me personally I plan to support all of them in one form or another.
Same here.   I'm giving all of them some of my attention.   I'm sure I'll have one which emerges as my favorite (The legacy CoH is the odds-on favorite here), but still plan to keep contact with the others as well.    Can't wait to try them!

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1832 on: September 10, 2014, 05:13:13 AM »
You expect a one woman operation (no disrespect to Irish_Girl), to develop APR -and- run the legacy game, on her own? Riiiiiight...
My post was based on what Nate said.  The current plan is for the holding company to run the legacy game.  That might change, but that's the intended plan.

Well, I am pretty fantastic... :P
I imagine if anyone's intention was to have me do it, it would have been brought to my attention already. I could be wrong, I'm not psychic. -shrugs-
"Let's get dangerous..."
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hopelives

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1833 on: September 10, 2014, 05:31:41 AM »
Plus will players have to download a new launcher and any revised I23 COH files?  I never uninstalled mine as I like to use ICON at times, but that doesn't mean that it will be what I need to play again.

 I never was able to bring myself to uninstall any of it,lol,still lies dreaming on my hard drive.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 05:45:32 AM by hopelives »

Zombie Hustler

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1834 on: September 10, 2014, 05:38:23 AM »
Especially if you're a Praetorian player (like me), they are absolutely not to be missed.  It was awesome just to read them!  I deeply regret that I did not get to actually play them.

I second that, as someone who was primarily playing on Beta towards the sunset. The i24 content was really, really well done (with the possible exception of the Rogue/Vigilante arcs, which- while I appreciate the sentiment and intent behind them and fully support it- were not terribly well written. One was better than the other- I forget which- but not much.)

Also, it wasn't just Praetorian goodness- the two King's Row story arcs were well done and helped progress the game's early levels with some new content beyond that introduced in Freedom's new starting game.

Provost Marchand's arc is as much Brickstown focused as it is Praetorian, and Mr. G's villain arc- well, I have to say it is probably the single best story arc in the game. Not just for its tying up of Praetorian storylines, but for its links and call-outs to Villain content (it had some different features depending on which arcs/badges you had on your character). It was amazing. I wish I could recall who wrote that one (I suspect it might have been Dr. Aeon/Sean McCann?)

EDIT: Interesting. Just looked over the Mr. G arc on the Paragonwiki. Looks like it is incomplete- or perhaps the person or persons running it did not have all the villain badges. There was a notable difference in the Crimson Revenant part on that page and what happened when I ran it.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 05:45:24 AM by jsmill@wans.net »

Sinistar

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1835 on: September 10, 2014, 05:45:18 AM »
I saved a few toons, then decided it was too much effort with no promise of return, so I went back to playing. Ended up loosing that HDD so it's moot anyway.


We're almost there!   ;D

My Coh Files including Sentinel files are on a drive on my system and also backed up to each of my 5 external drives.  Perhaps a bit of overkill but one never knows.
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

Pherdnut

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1836 on: September 10, 2014, 05:45:34 AM »
And honestly, the team doesn't really need people who are still upset at the negotiating table. No need to add any animosity at this point.

I wasn't trying to stir up resentment, though I'll admit I certainly did my best when it went down. It's just nice to understand what the other side values when you're negotiating. Especially when one option puts you back in that place of never knowing when they might kill it again because you don't really know why they did in the first place.

I had lots of nasty ideas. Now I'm just very confused and have absolutely no idea given the turn of events.

I'll take a precarious position over nothing I guess, but i don't know that the successors would want to risk any ties to the IP under those circumstances. Which is a bummer. I love that multiverse stuff. Top 10 was rad.

hopelives

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1837 on: September 10, 2014, 05:47:59 AM »
My Coh Files including Sentinel files are on a drive on my system and also backed up to each of my 5 external drives.  Perhaps a bit of overkill but one never knows.

   wish I had known about sentinel then but was just too damn depressed to be hearing much of anything.

TonyV

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1838 on: September 10, 2014, 05:49:44 AM »
For a typical MMORPG, we are talking about 100,000 minutes of dialog to voice. According to Interactive Voices, Inc, one of the largest VO management groups in the US, the going rate is $100 per minute of recorded dialog. That's $10 million to record.

To be fair, that rate is the maximum rate based on ad hoc recording needs.  Yeah, if you only need one minute of voice recording, that's what they'd charge.  It also notes "...or $1500 for a 45-minute recording," or $33 per minute.  Like most things, the more you need, the cheaper it is.

In the case of most video games, I strongly suspect that the work is contracted by the job, not by the minute, although based on some reasonable expectation of how long the actual dialogue is.  Think of it as the difference between taking a taxi if you just need to travel a few miles down the road in a pinch, versus renting a car for the day if you have extended travel plans over a longer period of time.

The $10 million figure is ludicrous, and without some kind of detailed accounting, you'll never convince me that it would cost that much for even the most expensive voice actors to do voice-over for a triple-A game title.  For that amount, to extend the analogy, you could just buy a car--or in this case, hire on a full-time cast of voice actors to do as much recording as you want, whenever you want.  Seriously, an average voice actor makes around $50k per year, and even if you double that to account for insurance, taxes, etc., you'd be able to maintain a staff of 100 full-time voice actors.

"Oh, but that's not including studio time!"  Okay, an average rate for professional studio time is around $200 or $300 per hour, call it an even $250, and that includes the sound engineer.  That would cost you around $500k per year, or the salaries of 5 of your full-time voice actors (remember, their total compensation plus taxes was doubled for this example), so you'd only be able to maintain a staff of 95 full-time voice actors, including studio time and a sound engineer, for $10 million.

In reality, it wouldn't cost nearly that much.  For one thing, if you contract voice actors from a company like Interactive Voices, they supply all of the equipment and expertise to do the recording.  You just need to supply the script and do any post-production necessary, which probably won't be much once they give you the finished product.  Second of all, like I said above, $100 is a maximum rate based on ad hoc recording needs; the cost of a full job such as what would be required for a game would be much, MUCH less, and likely could be negotiated as a whole project instead of a per-hour or certainly a per-minute deal.

Third of all, this is assuming that you want to go the route of using a company such as Interactive Voices.  One of the advantages of a project such as City of Titans is that we have a community to draw upon here that could do the work.  Not that they shouldn't be compensated, but I daresay that most people in this community would probably be willing to do the work for much, much less than even the cheapest rate quoted by a professional voice services company.

In short, if you don't like voice-over, there's nothing wrong with saying, "I don't like voice-over."  Some folks will disagree, but you know, thems the breaks, as a developer you have to get used to that.  But holy crap, man, don't try to justify such a position by quoting some outrageously exaggerated cost for having it.  Some of the times when I was most irritated at Paragon Studios was when I felt like they just didn't want to do something and tried to handwave it off and shut people down by saying it was "too expensive" or had vague "legal issues".  I'd like to break that culture.  And with a topic such a voice-over, which could easily be turned off by a click of an option by someone who doesn't like it, I don't see what the downside would be; it should at least be a fair topic of discussion without resorting to, "It would cost $10 million..."

Also, 100k hours?  Geez, man, even that's split across seven languages, that's 10 days straight of dialogue without stopping.  An average audio book is 15 hours long; a game with 10 days straight of dialogue would be around 16 read novels long.  :o  I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that number either, even if that's supposed to account for retakes and whatnot.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 05:55:19 AM by TonyV »

Sinistar

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1839 on: September 10, 2014, 05:50:20 AM »
There's no reason that the server list has to be halved. Or even one less. Aside from HDD space, it wouldn't make much difference.
All of the Live servers were running on one computer anyways. Then I believe the Auth server it's own machine, as well as Beta.

Well here's my reasoning: COH has a large fan base, yes.  In the time since the shutdown the fanbase still exists but some attrition has likely occurred with fans moving on to new games and life experiences and some may have given up hope of CoH returning.

Now if the game comes back I'm sure all the MMO news sites will basically go nuts with the news and will be reporting it as much as possible. then of course there will come some advertising to get the word out.

But logically speaking, to expect the entire fanbase to be back online on day one of relaunch is being extremely optimistic. Granted it would be nice to see but still.......

So let's say ALL the servers come back, and then there is an implosion in terms of players. Some leave again, some never came back, etc.  Then what happens? Will the servers be consolidated as some games have done like SWTOR, and from what I hear Wildstar is about to do the same.  Or will all the servers be up and running with some being dead zones like they were long before CoH was shut down?
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!