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Started by Ironwolf, March 06, 2014, 03:01:32 PM

MM3squints

#23080
Quote from: Biz on March 02, 2016, 05:05:03 PM
I'm noticing a pattern with this test...

A) take test
B) get somewhere from really good to great score
C) tell you that you qualify for lots of jobs
D) get lots of recruiter calls
E) repeat D

I'm thinking it might be a not very elaborate way of inflating your ego and telling you that you're smart so you join up. Unless someone shares a story about doing poorly on this test and not getting any recruiter calls?

I don't know how it is for the other service, but in the Navy, it is based on something called CREO group of the rate. CREO (Career Reenlistment Objectives) is basically the list showing each rate and how open they are for advancements. Although Navy recruiters are instructed to recruit who ever, they are more encourage to harass anyone who score high enough to fill one of the low number CREO group rates. That why you don't see a people who "want" to become BM etc getting a return call because, ya... If you join the Navy to be a BM, the US government already knows you are not worth the money to be spent on.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/navy/a/creolist2.htm

CREO Group is as follows. 1 is basically they want you in. They will do what ever to get you in including a sign on bonus of thousands of dollars (Nuke sign on bonuses can even get up to five digits.) 3 is ha good luck getting in with that rate let alone getting promoted you future 8 year E-4 (8 years is the cut off point before the Navy kicks you out for not advancing.)  If you score high enough, the Navy still will want you in, but since your rate is locked (CREO Group 3) they will try getting you in by "promising" a guarantee A School by putting you in something called GTEP. GTEP (Guarantee Training Enlistment Program) will give you the A school of the rate of your choice, but they will also throw in three other A schools that are at CREO Group 1 that you are qualified for. Usually when you are in the GTEP program, they really try to "encourage" you to play ball by not just promising a guarantee A school, but some kind of sign on bonus that is a couple thousands of dollars (and if your a kid straight from HS seeing that much pile of money at once, it will make you pause for a second.) The whole idea you go into the fleet as a temporary striker and within 4 month in the fleet, an A school will open up and you will go to you A school. The 4 month period they will put you in a division where it is a CREO Group 1 to try to change your mind in striking for that rate.

Funny story about that originally when I joined I wanted to be a MM because machinery always fascinated me, but MMs are CREO group 3 and will probably always be CREO group 3 for the reasons of there are too many gear heads in this country and they keep merging rates together making the MM pool that much bigger. My recruiter put me in the GTEP program and my school were MM, IC, CT, EN. When I got to the fleet, I they told me I was supposed to go with the IC division, but some weird reason, they sent me to M Div where the MMs are, which sounds counter productive to what they are doing. I latter found out the RO (Reactor Officer) has some strong political pull and in order to support the watch bill, any striker that can be sent to engineering will be sent to Reactor in order to support the watch bill. I didn't complain, I was where I wanted to be and made 3rd class without going to A school.

For your information, below is how high you need to score on the ASVAB to get a certain rate.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/navy/l/blasvabscores.htm



Aggelakis

We took the ASVAB test in HS and I got the highest score because I have always tested really well. The dude administering the test was almost apoplectic over getting me into the military. There isn't enough LOL in the world to show how little I cared.
Bob Dole!! Bob Dole. Bob Dole! Bob Dole. Bob Dole. Bob Dole... Bob Dole... Bob... Dole...... Bob...


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MM3squints

Quote from: Aggelakis on March 02, 2016, 07:25:58 PM
We took the ASVAB test in HS and I got the highest score because I have always tested really well. The dude administering the test was almost apoplectic over getting me into the military. There isn't enough LOL in the world to show how little I cared.

So basically you were drinking his tears in this cup

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.mugs.org.uk%2Fimage%2Fcache%2Fcatalog%2Fevenifihad-800x602.jpg

Arcana

Quote from: JoshexProxy on March 02, 2016, 02:44:45 AM
I know they cook in the galley, they always have, just telling you what they used to do with it back in the good old days. I have no idea why using it to catch fish is against the rules now.

https://bigtonysfantasyleague.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/missed-the-point.png


Brigadine

Quote from: Aggelakis on March 02, 2016, 10:37:22 AM
You can wish all you like. Sadly, no amount of wishing changes anything.
So... Santa isn't real?

Vee

Quote from: MM3squints on March 02, 2016, 07:19:01 PM
I don't know how it is for the other service, but in the Navy, it is based on something called CREO group of the rate. CREO (Career Reenlistment Objectives) is basically the list showing each rate and how open they are for advancements. Although Navy recruiters are instructed to recruit who ever, they are more encourage to harass anyone who score high enough to fill one of the low number CREO group rates. That why you don't see a people who "want" to become BM etc getting a return call because, ya... If you join the Navy to be a BM, the US government already knows you are not worth the money to be spent on.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/navy/a/creolist2.htm
CREO Group is as follows. 1 is basically they want you in. They will do what ever to get you in including a sign on bonus of thousands of dollars (Nuke sign on bonuses can even get up to five digits.) 3 is ha good luck getting in with that rate let alone getting promoted you future 8 year E-4 (8 years is the cut off point before the Navy kicks you out for not advancing.)  If you score high enough, the Navy still will want you in, but since your rate is locked (CREO Group 3) they will try getting you in by "promising" a guarantee A School by putting you in something called GTEP. GTEP (Guarantee Training Enlistment Program) will give you the A school of the rate of your choice, but they will also throw in three other A schools that are at CREO Group 1 that you are qualified for. Usually when you are in the GTEP program, they really try to "encourage" you to play ball by not just promising a guarantee A school, but some kind of sign on bonus that is a couple thousands of dollars (and if your a kid straight from HS seeing that much pile of money at once, it will make you pause for a second.) The whole idea you go into the fleet as a temporary striker and within 4 month in the fleet, an A school will open up and you will go to you A school. The 4 month period they will put you in a division where it is a CREO Group 1 to try to change your mind in striking for that rate.
Funny story about that originally when I joined I wanted to be a MM because machinery always fascinated me, but MMs are CREO group 3 and will probably always be CREO group 3 for the reasons of there are too many gear heads in this country and they keep merging rates together making the MM pool that much bigger. My recruiter put me in the GTEP program and my school were MM, IC, CT, EN. When I got to the fleet, I they told me I was supposed to go with the IC division, but some weird reason, they sent me to M Div where the MMs are, which sounds counter productive to what they are doing. I latter found out the RO (Reactor Officer) has some strong political pull and in order to support the watch bill, any striker that can be sent to engineering will be sent to Reactor in order to support the watch bill. I didn't complain, I was where I wanted to be and made 3rd class without going to A school.
For your information, below is how high you need to score on the ASVAB to get a certain rate.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/navy/l/blasvabscores.htm

If they didn't have you in charge of their acronym production they need to rethink their whole testing and placement process.

Taceus Jiwede

Quote from: LateNight on March 01, 2016, 10:45:38 PM
And what exactly is wrong with furless puppies?

Nothing.  Inherently.  But if I had to pick between a puppy with fur and another without fur.  Well i'd probably pick the soft one.  Part of the punishment was making you cuddle with a furless puppy while they played with an adorable furred one....totally a word.

-----

I also don't know what this ASVAB is.  I graduated high school in 2007.  And we almost never had recruiters come in.  If they did you had to go see them in the office.  They never came to the class rooms and bugged people.  They figured the people who wanted to join were going to join.  Colorado has no shortage of people who want to join the military.  I remember several of my classmates joining the Army actually, and few being rejected from the Marines.  I'm sure the people who want to join still have to take the ASVAB though.  Whatever it is. Somekinda military SAT.

JoshexProxy

Quote from: LateNight on March 02, 2016, 03:19:52 AM
Apart from the obvious - such as "that isn't their job" - there's this...

http://www.seabreeze.com.au/Articles/Fishing/Ciguatera-what-is-it_2040828.aspx

Further reading...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciguatera

"Researchers suggest that ciguatera outbreaks caused by warm climatic conditions propelled the migratory voyages of Polynesians between 1000 and 1400.[7][8]"

That part suggests that your belief that fishing such as you claimed was practised is possibly dubious, as it's been a well known problem to fishermen for a very long time - and so fishing was "most likely" left to those who devoted the proper time and resources as necessary to avoid such complications.

There's also this -

"
In April 2015, fourteen crew members of a potash ship were hospitalized in Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada after consuming tropical fish obtained from international waters.[35] After the incident, Marine Catering Services issued a reminder to seafarers that the UK Food Act makes it illegal for crews to fish for food from their vessels.[36]"

And this part -

"Ciguatera was first described by one of the surgeon's mates, William Anderson, on the crew of HMS Resolution in 1774.[37]"

- pretty much reinforces there's no way it was widely practised in the Navy...

Also possibly the reason salt was used to preserve meats for so long (like the HMS Resolution would have done in 1774!!), I'm guessing?

If you read about the Resolution you'll find it was Captained by James Cook - who founded Australia - which means you'd have learnt about the use of salt "in the old days", to preserve food on such voyages in primary school in Australia, like I did.

Only Australians would refuse to acknowledge a northern hemisphere. "the further north you go", "warm water species", "so the further south you live the less exposed you are", austrailia australia australia.

There's more than one reason Australia is the desired home-base of every super villain, but the one that applies here is "everything there is homicidal or wants to kill you"

Notice shark is not on that list. nor is tuna, nor is swordfish.

notice USA does not have a law stating that naval galley officers may not fish.

LateNights

Quote from: JoshexProxy on March 03, 2016, 02:02:10 AM
Only Australians would refuse to acknowledge a northern hemisphere. "the further north you go", "warm water species", "so the further south you live the less exposed you are", austrailia australia australia.

There's more than one reason Australia is the desired home-base of every super villain, but the one that applies here is "everything there is homicidal or wants to kill you"

Notice shark is not on that list. nor is tuna, nor is swordfish.

notice USA does not have a law stating that naval galley officers may not fish.

You didn't read the links did you...

"The current estimated global incidence annually is 20,000 to 50,000 people, though a large number of cases are believed to go unreported.[28]"

Note the use of the word global

"Due to the limited habitats of ciguatoxin-producing microorganisms, ciguatera is common only in subtropical and tropical waters, particularly the Pacific and Caribbean"

What part of Australia is in contact with the Caribbean?

Or better yet, read the links and see where the various other examples come from for yourself.

By the way, I didn't notice that the US has no law forbidding such fishing practices - just that the US wasn't mentioned as having such - like most of the 190 odd countries that weren't specifically mentioned...

MM3squints

Quote from: JoshexProxy on March 03, 2016, 02:02:10 AM
Only Australians would refuse to acknowledge a northern hemisphere. "the further north you go", "warm water species", "so the further south you live the less exposed you are", austrailia australia australia.

There's more than one reason Australia is the desired home-base of every super villain, but the one that applies here is "everything there is homicidal or wants to kill you"

Notice shark is not on that list. nor is tuna, nor is swordfish.

notice USA does not have a law stating that naval galley officers may not fish.

I.Y.A.O.Y.A.S.

darkgob

Quote from: JoshexProxy on March 03, 2016, 02:02:10 AM
There's more than one reason Australia is the desired home-base of every super villain, but the one that applies here is "everything there is homicidal or wants to kill you"

Notice shark is not on that list. nor is tuna, nor is swordfish.

Plenty of dropbears, though.

MM3squints

Quote from: darkgob on March 03, 2016, 03:11:06 AM
Plenty of dropbears, though.

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net%2Funcyclopedia%2Fimages%2F4%2F41%2FNaughty_koala.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20060825130425

Is this a Dingo or a Dropbear with that baby?

Aggelakis

Removed some posts about the previous kerfuffle. We're not bringing that back up.
Bob Dole!! Bob Dole. Bob Dole! Bob Dole. Bob Dole. Bob Dole... Bob Dole... Bob... Dole...... Bob...


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Taceus Jiwede

Quote from: JoshexProxy on March 03, 2016, 02:02:10 AM
Only Australians would refuse to acknowledge a northern hemisphere. "the further north you go", "warm water species", "so the further south you live the less exposed you are", austrailia australia australia.

There's more than one reason Australia is the desired home-base of every super villain, but the one that applies here is "everything there is homicidal or wants to kill you"

Notice shark is not on that list. nor is tuna, nor is swordfish.

notice USA does not have a law stating that naval galley officers may not fish.

Please. Continue.  I think you are on to something.

hurple

Quote from: MM3squints on March 03, 2016, 03:42:02 AM
https://images.weserv.nl/?url=vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net%2Funcyclopedia%2Fimages%2F4%2F41%2FNaughty_koala.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20060825130425

Is this a Dingo or a Dropbear with that baby?

My GOD... that thing is horrifying!


Power Gamer

Quote from: MM3squints on March 03, 2016, 03:42:02 AM
https://images.weserv.nl/?url=vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net%2Funcyclopedia%2Fimages%2F4%2F41%2FNaughty_koala.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20060825130425

Here comes Peter Cottontail,
Hopping down the bunny trail
Hippity, Hoppity, eating all your children!
It takes a village to raise a child. And it takes a villain to explain the value of lunch money.

-Random CoHer: "Why does the sky turn green during Rikti invasions?"
-Me:"Rikti Monkey farts"
-Random CoHer: "I'm going to you for all my questions from now on!"

Arcana

Quote from: JoshexProxy on March 03, 2016, 02:02:10 AMnotice USA does not have a law stating that naval galley officers may not fish.

There's probably a naval regulation that states they may only do so on Tuesdays, must throw back anything weighing less than 231.6 grams, can only feed what they catch to E-3 and lower, and must fill out form NVFSH1022-5.

Waffles

Well, I sure picked one hell of a page to come back to.

Arcana

Quote from: LateNight on March 02, 2016, 03:19:52 AM
Apart from the obvious - such as "that isn't their job" - there's this...

http://www.seabreeze.com.au/Articles/Fishing/Ciguatera-what-is-it_2040828.aspx

Further reading...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciguatera

"Researchers suggest that ciguatera outbreaks caused by warm climatic conditions propelled the migratory voyages of Polynesians between 1000 and 1400.[7][8]"

That part suggests that your belief that fishing such as you claimed was practised is possibly dubious, as it's been a well known problem to fishermen for a very long time - and so fishing was "most likely" left to those who devoted the proper time and resources as necessary to avoid such complications.

Actually, that's a bit backwards.  First of all, the theory that Ciguatera or other fish pathogens spurred Polynesian discovery and migratory voyages has to do with the fact that these diseases are in effect epidemic in nature: they can temporarily take over a small ecological area like the coastal area of an island or chain of islands.  But it wouldn't deter someone from fishing in the open ocean: quite the opposite.  We are pretty sure ancient Polynesians used to fish on their voyaging ships and even the crew of the Hokulea fishes when on its voyages.

The problem with fishing for primary sustenance is that it is extremely unreliable, ironically in the areas of the ocean where ocean traffic is most likely to occur, and that includes ancient Polynesian voyages in the Pacific.  So Hokulea stores ample provisions for journeys and uses fishing as a supplemental source of food.

The real problem with fishing on a modern warship, or even a warship during the age of sail, is that it is extremely impractical to fish from the deck of a warship while it is moving quickly, and warships are rarely not moving quickly when not at port.  And can you imagine what would happen if some idiot threw a fishing line out the side of a destroyer and it pulled backward and fouled the propellers?  If he's lucky he'll only get pulled overboard and turned into chum.

On a tangential subject, the sophistication of Polynesian mariners prior to modern times was almost certainly far greater than we now know, given how much of it has only been recently rediscovered and how much of it has likely been lost forever.  I remember when I first learned about the "Navigator's Chair" on Kaho'olawe, and wondered why that isn't in every history textbook in the world (not really, but still).

MM3squints

#23099
Quote from: Arcana on March 03, 2016, 10:04:34 PM

The real problem with fishing on a modern warship, or even a warship during the age of sail, is that it is extremely impractical to fish from the deck of a warship while it is moving quickly, and warships are rarely not moving quickly when not at port.  And can you imagine what would happen if some idiot threw a fishing line out the side of a destroyer and it pulled backward and fouled the propellers?  If he's lucky he'll only get pulled overboard and turned into chum.


There is actually more practical reasons that someone being stupid enough to die from the screws, which won't happen in the first place because personnel are restricted to go out on the decks during maneuvers do to man overboard fears. The only time I know people allowed on the decks during maneuvers were airdales on the flight deck of a carrier because the water can't wash them away from the carrier being so high. Not to say waves won't reach the flight deck, it can but you won't be doing flight ops when that time. You honestly can't truly respect the power of nature until you are on one of the most powerful warships man has ever created and you see white water hit the flight deck, then you pay respect to the sailors that came before you because they were doing this on little wooden ships.

1. Health Concerns: Yes is the Ocean, yes fish do come out of the ocean, but, they have not been inspected for any microbes/contaminant  that may be in the fish. From high levels of mercury to parasites there are range of reason of why you don't just eat the crap you fish. You don't cook one fish at a time when cooking for 200+ personnel, you put it all in a pot where the contaminant can spread. Keep in mind even on a small boy (Destroyer) it is very impractical to just stop and fish when your primary mission is to support the mission. Want to see up to 6,000 personnel catching the rhino due to contamination? It is not a pretty sight especially when you have only little over 100 heads.

2. Going to the 1, primary objective is to support the mission. This is not a leisure cruise where the CS will spend time to just fish. Military marches on a stomach and logistics is taken account for any mission no matter how small it is. The US Navy has fleets sectors around the globe and supplies will always run to the warship on hand with underway replenishment. "Fishing" is not a practical or a viable option to feed 200+ personnel a day.

TL:DR Why don't the modern Navy fish for food? It is impractical to do with that is given.