New efforts!

[MM3squints]

Uh... Yeah, being a Korean Company versus a American Company makes a difference... Nate even said that the Team had to be introduced to NCsoft by a Third Party just to start the negotiations for the IP, whereas one could just email an American Company if they wanted to start negotiations for something, so it does matter that NCsoft is a Korean Company, they have a different way of going about their business

Chances are, An American Company would've kept CoH alive because it would've been making them some nice dough, but as i said before, NCsoft is a Korean Company, they have a different way of doing things.

Read the quote I was quoting. Have you been paying attention to what I actually been post? Probably not, because I've been talking about the difference of Korean and American Culture in detail. The quote I was writing to was:

I mean that moderately metaphorically, too. I realize NCSoft doesn't and probably never did give a crap about us.
We're not Korean or in Korea. Why should they? We were basically a failed experiment in their eyes.

What I am saying more than likely doesn't give a crap about us (as I said many times too,) but the reason why NC Soft doesn't give a crap about us is not just solely because "We're, not Korean or in Korea." It is a lot more complex than that (even if that answer is short and easily justifiable.)

You need to go work for a multinational company.  Culture plays a major role in how business is done.  Want to piss off a Japanese business man?  Don't look at his business card and try to pronounce his name if he gives you his business card.  How about calling over Muslims by using the usual gesture for come here as Americans do?  That's basically saying f-you to them.  And while we're talking about it, money isn't always the motivation either.  Honor plays a role in parts of the world.  Patience or lack of rather can kill a deal very effectively.

You learn that kind of stuff working for a multinational or you get fired quickly.

I do, I work for a multinational company with our GmbH Global HQ is a little ways from where a couple of kids learned "Do is a deer, a female deer." I was in the United States Navy where we are told every sailor is an unofficial ambassador of the United States. We are trained that while on liberty all of our actions, inactions, and cultural insensitivities will reflect how the United States is perceived around the world because we may either fortify negative or positive stereotypes or even be the first people from the States they meet (you notice what I said right here, I said "...people from the States" instead of American, because referring to people from the States as a generally "American" tended to piss off people in Latin America and South America.) This in the Navy is known as "Soft Power." I studied abroad in Cambridge England for Global Economics and Policy. In the short 30 years on this Earth, I believe I seen a lot (but never enough because one always need to learn more to grow) In order to know how to navigate through Globalization. Am I an expert, hell no, my knowledge is less than 1% of the 1% because I've only been around 16 separate nations around the world, but, I do know enough how to navigate though different cultures.

[LadyVamp]

I do, I work for a multinational company with our GmbH Global HQ is a little ways from where a couple of kids learned "Do is a deer, a female deer." I was in the United States Navy where we are told every sailor is an unofficial ambassador of the United States. We are trained that while on liberty all of our actions, inactions, and cultural insensitivities will reflect how the United States is perceived around the world because we may either fortify negative or positive stereotypes or even be the first people from the States they meet (you notice what I said right here, I said "...people from the States" instead of American, because referring to people from the States as a generally "American" tended to piss off people in Latin America and South America.) This in the Navy is known as "Soft Power." I studied abroad in Cambridge England for Global Economics and Policy. In the short 30 years on this Earth, I believe I seen a lot (but never enough because one always need to learn more to grow) In order to know how to navigate through Globalization. Am I an expert, hell no, my knowledge is less than 1% of the 1% because I've only been around 16 separate nations around the world, but, I do know enough how to navigate though different cultures.

I find it hard to believe that someone with as much round the world experience as you claim would make a statement like this:

To be fair being Korean, American, etc more than likely has nothing to do with anything, its all about maximizing revenue with the resources presented.

Oh and by the way:  I know quite a few Central and South Americans from a whole host of countries.  I've never met one that got upset over US citizens being called Americans, but I have run into quite a number of them who didn't like being called Americans.

[MM3squints]

I find it hard to believe that someone with as much round the world experience as you claim would make a statement like this:

Probably I assumed people would have read what I've been posting in the past (I'm not going to copy/paste those, its too long and goes into detail) and that take statement into context with everything I said (unless of course you want me to make cliff notes in reference to my past statements about the Korean America Culture differences and my past post of why NC Soft could care less for us) It was my fault for assuming people would read the entirety (which is a big assumption because this thing is over 20k long. Granted what I've been saying happened in the last couple pages) instead of when I say something off hand, blow it up into nothing. I don't know whatever provoked you to respond to me and try to lecture me on globalization edicate, may be because either you didn't read my past post, or you just read that post because that one out of all the other caught your eye for some reason and you have a need to try putting someone in their place. I am leaning to the latter because if you did read my posts in the last couple then you wouldn't have made your initial post or this follow up .

Oh and by the way:  I know quite a few Central and South Americans from a whole host of countries.  I've never met one that got upset over US citizens being called Americans, but I have run into quite a number of them who didn't like being called Americans.

I've been to Rio De Janeiro, Brazil, Valparaiso, Chile, Lima, Peru back in 05 when I was serving and back to Rio De Janeiro in 12 when I was out of the service and it was the same thing in 05 as 12 in Brazil. Each of the locations I talked about, I actually talked to the locals about if it was a thing the command told us to just say or was it an actual thing. Majority of the time in each country and still in my 12 time in Basil, the answer was similar. Some didn't care, but those who did care said they are "Americans" too, but not that "American" why the hell should two continents be associated with the United States when they are "Americans" and are not from the States.

Edit: The thing you were quoting too, again look at my post top of this page quoting Stitchified  on a quote by another poster of saying the reason why NC Soft doesn't care for us is because we are not Korean and that quote you are quoting is stating that is not the only reason. If you actually take the full quote instead of harping on a small part of the quote:

To be fair being Korean, American, etc more than likely has nothing to do with anything, its all about maximizing revenue with the resources presented. Heck EA is an American Company (they are 10 miles from where I live,) but that doesn't stop them from screwing all the fans of the Studios (RIP Westwood, Maxis, etc) they gobble up and slice up the game into DLCs to milk the consumers.

You can see me using EA as an example showing they are an American company, but they can care less on how they treat the fans of a certain brand (so sad C&C is a shadow of it's former self)  Everything in context will make sense.

[Stitchified]

Read the quote I was quoting. Have you been paying attention to what I actually been post? Probably not.

First off, lay off the rudeness. Second, if you had read what I said, I had said that NCsoft being a Korean Company means they have a different way of doing things... They could've shut down CoH just to spite people, we won't know, so comparing Korean Companies to American Companies is something that doesn't really make sense because Americans do things differently than Koreans.

Also, if you read what I had quoted, you'd notice that it was about how being Korean, American, etc probably doesn't matter when it actually does.

Granted, chances are NCsoft really doesn't care about us, and as it's been said before, that's probably because we're not in Korea, so what's the point in keeping a game up and running in foreign countries if it isn't doing well in the home county?

[Stitchified]

Now, let's all stop arguing over things that don't really matter... It's all a waiting game to see if we'll get CoH back, so let's stay positive

[MM3squints]

First off, lay off the rudeness. Second, if you had read what I said, I had said that NCsoft being a Korean Company means they have a different way of doing things... They could've shut down CoH just to spite people, we won't know, so comparing Korean Companies to American Companies is something that doesn't really make sense because Americans do things differently than Koreans.

Also, if you read what I had quoted, you'd notice that it was about how being Korean, American, etc probably doesn't matter when it actually does.

Granted, chances are NCsoft really doesn't care about us, and as it's been said before, that's probably because we're not in Korea, so what's the point in keeping a game up and running in foreign countries if it isn't doing well in the home county?

Actually you are the one trying to tell me how other country dose business when I did state Han, Jeong, etc is in the mindset of a Korean and the reason why they are not selling as quick, but all that is in my past post so it is not rude to make that assumption because shows here too. Seems like you are the one that being rude by trying to lecture a Korean-American how Korean culture works.

Now, let's all stop arguing over things that don't really matter... It's all a waiting game to see if we'll get CoH back, so let's stay positive

You drop it, I'll drop it.

[Arcana]

I had said that NCsoft being a Korean Company means they have a different way of doing things... They could've shut down CoH just to spite people, we won't know, so comparing Korean Companies to American Companies is something that doesn't really make sense because Americans do things differently than Koreans.

To be fair, while there are indeed cultural differences between Korean companies and US companies in the general case, its also true that NCSoft hasn't done anything that US companies haven't also done in all respects.  Korean executives may do things differently for culturally different reasons, but that doesn't mean American executives won't do exactly the same things for totally different, but ultimately congruent reasons.  The notion that an American executive wouldn't act out of spite, or fear, or honor, or generosity, or pride, is unrealistic. 

Knowing how people think and what their cultural norms are is important when dealing with them person to person, but it is not a great way to generalize differences in how they behave in the aggregate.  The Why of things often averages out when it comes to the What.

[Taceus Jiwede]

To be fair, while there are indeed cultural differences between Korean companies and US companies in the general case, its also true that NCSoft hasn't done anything that US companies haven't also done in all respects.  Korean executives may do things differently for culturally different reasons, but that doesn't mean American executives won't do exactly the same things for totally different, but ultimately congruent reasons.  The notion that an American executive wouldn't act out of spite, or fear, or honor, or generosity, or pride, is unrealistic. 

Knowing how people think and what their cultural norms are is important when dealing with them person to person, but it is not a great way to generalize differences in how they behave in the aggregate.  The Why of things often averages out when it comes to the What.

Ah Arcana.  I thought I heard the voice of reason.

[ivanhedgehog]

anyone have any idead if valiance online is ok? they havent said anything in weeks, and they were very active up until then

[Surelle]

anyone have any idead if valiance online is ok? they havent said anything in weeks, and they were very active up until then

It's only been a few weeks, and it *is* the holiday season.  I wouldn't worry.

It has hardly been three years or anything.   ;)

[ivanhedgehog]

It's only been a few weeks, and it *is* the holiday season.  I wouldn't worry.

It has hardly been three years or anything.   ;)

no server for a month and a half? it brings up some concern for me

[Paragon Avenger]

no server for a month and a half? it brings up some concern for me

Didn't you hear, NCSoft shut that down too.
j/k

[kaaduu1280]

Didn't you hear, NCSoft shut that down too.
j/k

Anymore, it wouldn't surprise me if it was actually true.

[Baaleos]

So question...

How many years will we wait patiently, before determining that City of Heroes will not be returning.
I know we all said around post 500-600-700 etc that change of ownership of IP is a long drawn out process, but im nearly 30 now, and soon I will be too old to play games and admit it. :-/

If this thread continues on for 4 years or so, are we all gonna sit around with crossed fingers hoping for its return?

The studio that is attempting to buy CoH undoubtably cannot be making CoH a priority. It just doesnt work feasibly - they need to earn money to eat and pay rent and bills.
So those imagined boardroom meetings occurring daily between them and NCSoft are unrealistic since it produces no income for the studio.
Do we know of other projects that the studio are working on, how they are supplementing their income etc

Im not trying to be a troll here, its just that many people have this image in their head that they are struggling daily with NCSoft to get the IP rights to CoH. When in reality they are more than likely working 95% of the time on other projects in order to feed their families, with the occasional e-mail being sent back and forth between themselves and NCSoft.
Im all too familiar with exciting projects such as this just burn out after being drawn out for too long. I know they don't happen over night, but the information we are getting is sketchy at best, (no, they don't owe us information, yes they may be covered by NDA).

Still, just feels like its going on forever, and I wonder how many years we will all wait before calling it a day.

[Vee]

I don't think any of us old fogeys are under the impression that there're daily boardroom meetings going on.

[Biz]

So those imagined boardroom meetings occurring daily between them and NCSoft

From what the smart people in this thread have speculated at, and from what the informed people have implied, there are absolutely not daily meetings occurring. To me, it sounds more like contact is made a few times a month at best, but probably not even that often.

[Surelle]

So question...

How many years will we wait patiently, before determining that City of Heroes will not be returning.
I know we all said around post 500-600-700 etc that change of ownership of IP is a long drawn out process, but im nearly 30 now, and soon I will be too old to play games and admit it. :-/

If this thread continues on for 4 years or so, are we all gonna sit around with crossed fingers hoping for its return?

The studio that is attempting to buy CoH undoubtably cannot be making CoH a priority. It just doesnt work feasibly - they need to earn money to eat and pay rent and bills.
So those imagined boardroom meetings occurring daily between them and NCSoft are unrealistic since it produces no income for the studio.
Do we know of other projects that the studio are working on, how they are supplementing their income etc

Im not trying to be a troll here, its just that many people have this image in their head that they are struggling daily with NCSoft to get the IP rights to CoH. When in reality they are more than likely working 95% of the time on other projects in order to feed their families, with the occasional e-mail being sent back and forth between themselves and NCSoft.
Im all too familiar with exciting projects such as this just burn out after being drawn out for too long. I know they don't happen over night, but the information we are getting is sketchy at best, (no, they don't owe us information, yes they may be covered by NDA).

Still, just feels like its going on forever, and I wonder how many years we will all wait before calling it a day.

Please don't forget, we do have tangible progress being made-- by SCoRE.  Some of us do not really see the day coming where anything ultimately comes of the hopes and dreams of all of us and Team Hail Mary (although we appreciate their efforts), but we do follow the progress of and have faith in SCoRE.   :D   

[Solitaire]

I can see why people are starting to think the worst or starting to question how things are progressing, worrying that the game may never return. As the last update on the "Wake Me Up" thread was February 17th 2015 from what I can tell, and that Downix hasn't been on the forums from what I can also see since August 17th 2015.  :(

People have mentioned SCoRE but has anything been updated regarding how the work is progressing.  :-\

But we do have Codewalker and Gang to thnak for PC  ;)

[Pyromantic]

Still, just feels like its going on forever, and I wonder how many years we will all wait before calling it a day.

While I am sure those directly involved with TFHM have plenty of other things to occupy their time, the little snippets of information we've received suggest that they would like to see things progress faster, and that any logjam comes from the other side.  Their involvement comes from a love of the game; they have already shown great willingness to invest their time and are unlikely to quit while things are progressing (even slowly).  We've heard statements to the effect that they put together some kind of "display of competency" for example, which I expect means that they had to show the ability to get servers running and maintain them.

But really: what difference does anyone's answer to your question make?  Those of us who frequent this forum don't have much direct impact on the negotiations, except for the fact that we demonstrate a community still interested in the game's return, which provides some incentive to continue negotiations.  Even if I were to say "nope, I'm calling it a day," it's not like negotiations would stop.  Nor would it mean that my interest wouldn't immediately be recaptured if an announcement of the game's return was made. 

The only point at which I might not show an interest in playing CoH again would be if I find one of the spiritual successors fills the need as effectively as the original.  Even if that happens it will be some time from now. 

As for what I think will happen, I still have faith we'll be playing CoH again in the not too distant future.  I also have faith in City of Titans personally.  I believe MWM is going about things the right way, with enough patience and forethought to make a solid game, reimagining what can be improved or needs to be replaced, while still capturing the essence of CoH.

[Drauger9]

I don't imagine the people involved having daily boardmeetings. If they did, the deal would of been done by now. I'm with Biz, I think it's more like. I'll shot so and so an email to see about this........ Two months later there's a reply and then another email.

The way I think of the situation is like a stove top. You have to burners in the front, one in the middle and two in the back. As the person cooking finishes one of the pans on one of the front burners. They move a pan from the middle or back to the newly available front burner. I think at this point we're on the middle burner. Waiting for them to finish up one of the pans on the front burner and hoping we'll be placed in that spot.

Still, just feels like its going on forever, and I wonder how many years we will all wait before calling it a day.[\quote]


For myself, I know without a doubt. That I'll either be playing one of the successors, CoH or SCORE before I call it a day. LOL! I'm just one of those types that says to myself. "Well, I've waited 3 years. Might as well wait one more year..... well I waited for might as well wait another ect ect...


Hmmm... somehow I put my reply in with what I was trying to quote and I'm to tired to figure it out. LOL! Night everyone. :P