New efforts!

[Arcana]

Shame this statement is blatantly wrong, c-store starships ranges from 1000 zen to 3000 zen, all of which are account unlocks for all eligible characters. I.e a Federation cruiser will unlock for ALL federation characters on the account as long as they have the right level. In addition the overall effect of starship type and equipment  is less than you imply, plenty of examples of low tier ships completing end game content in the hands of a decent pilot... Easily youtbuted and verified.

My recollection was that they were character unlocked: I haven't purchased a starship in forever so I misremembered that.  If that's false, I stand corrected.

However, at no time did I say that purchased starships were unequivocally more powerful; in fact I stated the opposite, that the ships you can earn in-game tend to be, in terms of capability, mostly just as good.  What I said was that starships function specifically in game replay terms similar to how classes work in games like City of Heroes, far more than how character classes themselves function in STO.  Game play tends to vary much more strongly with different ship than with captain classes, and in any case there are only three of those in STO.  In CoH, there were fourteen archetypes.  In STO there are three primary ship classes (escort, cruiser, sci) and particularly at the top tiers the different escorts, cruisers, and sci ships themselves play differently due to things like ship mastery and special ship capabilities.

Also, sure there are starships that cost 1000 zen.  In fact there are starships that only cost 500 zen.  However, they are lower ranked ships: the 500 zen B'Rolth bird of prey is a Lt class ship, and the 1000 zen Constellation refit is a Commander ranked ship.  Because they are significantly less powerful ships I consider those purchases practically costume purchases made more for the look of  the ship than anything else.  In City of Heroes terms, this would be like buying a Controller unlock that was capped at 40 enhancement slots.  I believe the cheapest tier 5 starships cost 2000 zen and I think most cost 2500.  I think nearly all the tier 6 starships cost 3000 (I see the Hestia is 2500, but that's it).  In City of Heroes terms, a tier 5 ship would be something like buying an archetype that wasn't allowed to slot incarnate powers.  Not quite, because I think the tier 6 stuff is less powerful than incarnate abilities, but roughly analogous.  When people talk about starships costing 2000-3000 zen, skewed towards 3000 zen, they are generally assuming purchasing starships appropriate to the level cap.

[Arcana]

I remember a guy on Trumph named Big Pun who bragged about buying $200+ worth of influence from gold farmers to make an ice/em tank (pre i13 a beast 1 v 1) He would go on arena chat talking trash so I said I would duel him with my ice/rad. Besides him having a $200+ toon (essentially a Pay to Win toon) he started talking more trash saying I will do no dmg to him because he has ice res capped. 5 minutes into a 10 minutes duel, I dropped him. 2 minutes latter I dropped him again. Before the 3 minutes was over, I dropped him 2 more times (4-0)

The point I'm making it yes builds, gears, etc do give you an advantage, but in terms of at least CoX PvP, skills can out beat a P2W toon. It's like saying just because you bough a McLaren F1, you have the driving skills as Dale Earnhardt (how ridiculous dose that sound?) But on a equal or skilled platform, P2W can be an issue, but then again, PvPers will spend 60% of their gameplay farming while 30% Pvping, 10% PvE (probably lower than that, but that was about my breakdown) so even if you do P2W, seems like a waste in CoX standpoint. Of course it may be different in other games because the store can give out exclusive OP stuff.

Besides being able to meet from all servers, the best part about test was you can copy as many purples and other IOs over so basically all team really didn't have an advantage IO wise over the other.

I'm not sure if this is a story about how skill beats cash (not to denigrate your skill) but rather a case of someone not understanding what cash can really buy.  I mean I know Ice/EM tankers were *pretty good* in pre-I13 PvP, but I would never take one out to duel an Ice/Rad.  One on one, I would assume that would eventually turn into a jousting fight and using a melee defense character to duel a ranged debuffer sounds like a waste of two hundred bucks unless you really know what you're doing.  He's lucky you didn't have an Ice/Cold corruptor lying around.  Slows don't suppress.

[Arcana]

The problem is this; during the nearly 20 years in which that flat fee has remained $15/month, the cost to produce a game has more than quintupled. They spent as much on Destiny before release as WoW has spent on development TOTAL across the entire life of the game. City of Heroes cost $7 million to develop; STO was over $20 million. DCUO and TSW were $50 million each.

Unless gamers are willing to go back to paying $120 a month for MMOs (which was once a thing), their only choices are make more money, or spend less on production. F2P makes more money.

While the amount spent on development has continued to go up, its unclear to me exactly *why* that's the case.  Its unclear if players are getting the full benefit of that development money, and where it all goes.  Some of it certainly goes into more content and better art assets, but a lot of it seems to be expended on software development black holes that don't necessarily output proportionately better platforms than we've had in the past.  In other words, a lot of that money might be money companies are spending because they want to, not because they need to.

Separate from that, the costs to operate MMOs has dropped over that time to the point where the incremental cost per player is approaching zero.  In modern terms, its entirely possible that all of City of Heroes could have been hosted in infrastructure costing less than $0.50 a player to operate inclusive of bandwidth.

An MMO that can manage 100,000 subscribers at $15/month has $1.5 million in monthly revenue.  If just half of that is dedicated to development and the rest is used to pay for infrastructure, service debt, pay for various sales and marketing expenses, and make a profit, that's $750k a month.  That's at least 50 full time developers working on software and content development.  If I couldn't make that budget work, I'd set my calculator on fire and retire.

[Angel Phoenix77]

My recollection was that they were character unlocked: I haven't purchased a starship in forever so I misremembered that.  If that's false, I stand corrected.

I think you got confused with the lockbox ships those are character bound :(. It is ok, I had to save up for the t-5 Atlita class, imho it is not bad the original design while it looked cool, from the front and sides it lacked a bit of proper design.

[MM3squints]

I'm not sure if this is a story about how skill beats cash (not to denigrate your skill) but rather a case of someone not understanding what cash can really buy.  I mean I know Ice/EM tankers were *pretty good* in pre-I13 PvP, but I would never take one out to duel an Ice/Rad.  One on one, I would assume that would eventually turn into a jousting fight and using a melee defense character to duel a ranged debuffer sounds like a waste of two hundred bucks unless you really know what you're doing.  He's lucky you didn't have an Ice/Cold corruptor lying around.  Slows don't suppress.

Real cash buys the inf to buy the IOs to make the toon to build a PvP spec (hence why my CoX was 60% of farming) Ice/Em can easily destroy a ice/rad or any squishie if played right. OwnageX playing his Ice/EM can destroy just about everything under a Mind/Fire dom (Including my Ice/Rad.) There is also a specific way I played with a Ice/Rad dueler that wasn't the traditional run and gun.  On paper Ice/Rad has an advantage, but again it's all about how you play the toon and unless I modded my ice/rad specifically to take on a Ice/EM (which would kill the way I built my ice/rad in the first place) my ice/rad will loose to a skilled ice/em more than 70% of the time.

[Surelle]

While the amount spent on development has continued to go up, its unclear to me exactly *why* that's the case.  Its unclear if players are getting the full benefit of that development money, and where it all goes.  Some of it certainly goes into more content and better art assets, but a lot of it seems to be expended on software development black holes that don't necessarily output proportionately better platforms than we've had in the past.  In other words, a lot of that money might be money companies are spending because they want to, not because they need to.

Separate from that, the costs to operate MMOs has dropped over that time to the point where the incremental cost per player is approaching zero.  In modern terms, its entirely possible that all of City of Heroes could have been hosted in infrastructure costing less than $0.50 a player to operate inclusive of bandwidth.

An MMO that can manage 100,000 subscribers at $15/month has $1.5 million in monthly revenue.  If just half of that is dedicated to development and the rest is used to pay for infrastructure, service debt, pay for various sales and marketing expenses, and make a profit, that's $750k a month.  That's at least 50 full time developers working on software and content development.  If I couldn't make that budget work, I'd set my calculator on fire and retire.

This post is awesome.  Posts like this are also why you are so awesome.   :)

[EsTrella]

I partially blame the closing of CoH on the free accounts. When they did this they eliminated a set income from accounts, they couldnt say "we have x accounts, so every month we get $10x."

However, a month after it closed, my dad and I stumbled upon Champions Online, which was an OKAY game that KIND of filled the whole, i mean, it wasn't great, but atleast we had SOMETHING. One of the problems I had with it was that it was free-for-all. They needed payed accounts. I mentioned in past replies that I make my heroes from characters in the comics I right, and I felt like EVERY hero I made I hade to buy a powerset, or costume, or travel power, and I wished I could pay $x a month and get all that stuff, or buy packs that included items from all 3 categories. (1 powerset, 5 costume parts, 1 travel power, ect.)

Also, my dad enjoys games where he can do completely broken things like BUY xp and enhancements and inspirations and merits and stuff like that, he'd probably pay money to complete missions too. So, though I don't agree, I feel like there should be an OPTION for it, though I can see how that would be unfair.

[ryuplaneswalker]

While the amount spent on development has continued to go up, its unclear to me exactly *why* that's the case.  Its unclear if players are getting the full benefit of that development money, and where it all goes.  Some of it certainly goes into more content and better art assets, but a lot of it seems to be expended on software development black holes that don't necessarily output proportionately better platforms than we've had in the past.  In other words, a lot of that money might be money companies are spending because they want to, not because they need to.

Separate from that, the costs to operate MMOs has dropped over that time to the point where the incremental cost per player is approaching zero.  In modern terms, its entirely possible that all of City of Heroes could have been hosted in infrastructure costing less than $0.50 a player to operate inclusive of bandwidth.

An MMO that can manage 100,000 subscribers at $15/month has $1.5 million in monthly revenue.  If just half of that is dedicated to development and the rest is used to pay for infrastructure, service debt, pay for various sales and marketing expenses, and make a profit, that's $750k a month.  That's at least 50 full time developers working on software and content development.  If I couldn't make that budget work, I'd set my calculator on fire and retire.

The thing that should outrage the people funding that, is how much MMOs rip off from other MMOs. Wildstar and Tor were both, very functionally "Wow in space" to some degree, TOR's talent trees were a direct ripoff of WoW's original talent style (one they ditched years before TOR came out for very good reasons) and while I did not get far into Wildstar but it seemed to be Space WoW classes! with a combination of worse talent trees, the spell rank system (another thing WoW Ditched) and ACTION!!!!! RPG!!! which I never felt worked in an MMO setting very well, if I had been the person backing either of those games I would have been royally angry at the final product. In TOR's case I would have been laywer up levels of angry.

[darkgob]

I partially blame the closing of CoH on the free accounts. When they did this they eliminated a set income from accounts, they couldnt say "we have x accounts, so every month we get $10x."

The problem with this reasoning is that it doesn't match reality.  F2P games actually end up making MORE money (the devs even reported this as the reason why they were able to develop so much awesome stuff) due to the "whale" phenomenon -- plays who spend enough money to more than make up for all the truly free players.

Also, my dad enjoys games where he can do completely broken things like BUY xp and enhancements and inspirations and merits and stuff like that, he'd probably pay money to complete missions too. So, though I don't agree, I feel like there should be an OPTION for it, though I can see how that would be unfair.

Game devs usually don't like it when you break their game.  Also, if you're paying money for XP and enhancements and even completing missions, why are you even playing the game?  (At that point, you really aren't even playing.)

[chuckv3]

... if you're paying money for XP and enhancements and even completing missions, why are you even playing the game?  (At that point, you really aren't even playing.)

I agree with you in sentiment. But in a practical sense, if whales spend hundred per month to skip (or bulldoze) all the content, then the company makes money to keep the lights on (and hopefully also develop new content), and they don't have to over-charge the reset of us. The positives of F2P far outweigh the negatives. Use the public-shaming method to keep those people in their place (when needed). Make up derogatory terms like "bAEby" to chastise those who show the symptoms. And if they are really bad, put them on global ignore.

[Arcana]

I agree with you in sentiment. But in a practical sense, if whales spend hundred per month to skip (or bulldoze) all the content, then the company makes money to keep the lights on (and hopefully also develop new content), and they don't have to over-charge the reset of us. The positives of F2P far outweigh the negatives. Use the public-shaming method to keep those people in their place (when needed). Make up derogatory terms like "bAEby" to chastise those who show the symptoms. And if they are really bad, put them on global ignore.

As I mentioned above, this is a question of perspective.  MMOs tend to need two things to stay healthy: revenue and players.  Technically speaking they only need revenue but as a practical matter an MMO without a large (in absolute, not relative terms) active player base tends to stagnate in a lot of ways money can't fix.  So there's two competing things going on in an F2P game.  Because different people are willing to spend different amounts on the game, making a cost structure that taps into the players willing to spend huge amounts generates a lot more average revenue per player overall, and that contributes to having more revenue period.  That's good for profitability and good for the game in terms of being able to fund content creation.  But you need to be attractive to enough players to keep a relative influx of people coming in and playing the game, and the overwhelming majority of them won't be whales.  If your cost structure is perceived to be pay to win you could choke off those new players and that's ultimately bad for the game.

In other words, the whales have to be seen as being a net benefit by all the non-whales and not a deficit.  If the non-whales perceive the whales as getting special privileges to the detriment of everyone else, that's bad.  If the non-whales see the whales as a tide that lifts all boats, that's more likely to be perceived as good.

[Arcana]

Real cash buys the inf to buy the IOs to make the toon to build a PvP spec (hence why my CoX was 60% of farming) Ice/Em can easily destroy a ice/rad or any squishie if played right. OwnageX playing his Ice/EM can destroy just about everything under a Mind/Fire dom (Including my Ice/Rad.) There is also a specific way I played with a Ice/Rad dueler that wasn't the traditional run and gun.  On paper Ice/Rad has an advantage, but again it's all about how you play the toon and unless I modded my ice/rad specifically to take on a Ice/EM (which would kill the way I built my ice/rad in the first place) my ice/rad will loose to a skilled ice/em more than 70% of the time.

I don't think I was clear in my original post.  What I was trying to say is that taking any melee character that uses Defense as its main form of protection, particularly pre-Elusivity, and trying to duel a ranged debuffer particularly Ice/Rad, requires special skills.  If we dueled with identical power combinations like two Ice/EMs, then how much we spend on the builds would convey a significant material advantage.  If I spend ten times more than you, you might still win through skill but you'd definitely notice the difference in build strength.  But when dueling very disparate combinations particularly when there's a range disparity or heavy debuffing in the mix, I don't think the amount you spend on the build is as materially significant.  How you attempt to exploit the inherent weaknesses of the other guy's power combination or fail to do so is I believe probably far more important than the material strength of the builds.

So what I was trying to say is if you are going to limit yourself to only fighting other things you already know how to fight, then spending a ton on a PvP build makes some sense: you are spending money on things you know with certainty will give you a strong advantage.  But if you are going to fight all kinds of random things that you don't yet know how to fight, you can't know what the best things to spend money on are.  You're just wasting money on something you don't yet understand. That's what I meant when I said it was more a waste of cash than a fair comparison between skill and cash.  Skill was swinging a light saber and cash was blowing bubbles in the corner.

I don't remember Big Pun so I don't know if he was a good PvPer or not.  But bragging you won't take any damage because you're res-capped doesn't sound like a smart thing to say.  Even with Ice Armor's high smashing defense and capped cold resistance vs Ice attacks I wouldn't make that boast in PvP.  If that kind of thing were true, Granite tanks would be unkillable (except for psi).  But I know debuffers could melt them back them.  If Granite can get smoked by corruptors, Ice Armor certainly can be.  You still have to kill them before they can chip away at you.  And if you're fighting something with regen debuffs all the resistance in the world won't stop you from getting killed eventually.  It may take a while, but it will happen.

[MM3squints]

I don't think I was clear in my original post.  What I was trying to say is that taking any melee character that uses Defense as its main form of protection, particularly pre-Elusivity, and trying to duel a ranged debuffer particularly Ice/Rad, requires special skills.  If we dueled with identical power combinations like two Ice/EMs, then how much we spend on the builds would convey a significant material advantage.  If I spend ten times more than you, you might still win through skill but you'd definitely notice the difference in build strength.  But when dueling very disparate combinations particularly when there's a range disparity or heavy debuffing in the mix, I don't think the amount you spend on the build is as materially significant.  How you attempt to exploit the inherent weaknesses of the other guy's power combination or fail to do so is I believe probably far more important than the material strength of the builds.

Ice tank was dominant not because of defense (as I stated in my past post that really dose little for you except in case of toons w/o BU or Aim trollers and doms being somewhat affected by this) actually the main form of protection for ice tank (and what made them FoTM in PvP) was Chilling Embrace, that did –speed (so the target will stay in melee range), -rech, and the –dmg (that and hibernate+hoarfrost.) It's all about reaction time and to see who will burn out of BFs 1st. I can open up shiver and LR to stack the slows/-rech, while the Ice/EM will more than likely open with a TF, all the ice tanker needs to do is run out till the debuffs wear off or hibernate till the debuffs wear off while my BF burns down, then retry for another TF until I am out. If I can effective –rech/slow the Ice/EM before he can run or before hibernate recharges, I will win. Then again is such situations, they have use TP (and people said TP is worthless in PvP) to create unrestricted distance between me and him and wait out the debuffs then go in for the attack.

So what I was trying to say is if you are going to limit yourself to only fighting other things you already know how to fight, then spending a ton on a PvP build makes some sense: you are spending money on things you know with certainty will give you a strong advantage.  But if you are going to fight all kinds of random things that you don't yet know how to fight, you can't know what the best things to spend money on are.  You're just wasting money on something you don't yet understand. That's what I meant when I said it was more a waste of cash than a fair comparison between skill and cash.  Skill was swinging a light saber and cash was blowing bubbles in the corner.

Knowledge is power.

I don't remember Big Pun so I don't know if he was a good PvPer or not.  But bragging you won't take any damage because you're res-capped doesn't sound like a smart thing to say.  Even with Ice Armor's high smashing defense and capped cold resistance vs Ice attacks I wouldn't make that boast in PvP.  If that kind of thing were true, Granite tanks would be unkillable (except for psi).  But I know debuffers could melt them back them.  If Granite can get smoked by corruptors, Ice Armor certainly can be.  You still have to kill them before they can chip away at you.  And if you're fighting something with regen debuffs all the resistance in the world won't stop you from getting killed eventually.  It may take a while, but it will happen.

Big Pun one day kept on spamming Arena chat, then one day just disappeared. We never knew what happened to him

Edit: I wrote more "tank" likely ratter than more than likely

[chuckv3]

I partially blame the closing of CoH on the free accounts. When they did this they eliminated a set income from accounts, they couldnt say "we have x accounts, so every month we get $10x."

However, a month after it closed, my dad and I stumbled upon Champions Online, which was an OKAY game that KIND of filled the whole, i mean, it wasn't great, but atleast we had SOMETHING. One of the problems I had with it was that it was free-for-all. They needed payed accounts. I mentioned in past replies that I make my heroes from characters in the comics I right, and I felt like EVERY hero I made I hade to buy a powerset, or costume, or travel power, and I wished I could pay $x a month and get all that stuff, or buy packs that included items from all 3 categories. (1 powerset, 5 costume parts, 1 travel power, ect.)

Also, my dad enjoys games where he can do completely broken things like BUY xp and enhancements and inspirations and merits and stuff like that, he'd probably pay money to complete missions too. So, though I don't agree, I feel like there should be an OPTION for it, though I can see how that would be unfair.

Almost everybody thinks it was simple a bad decision by NCSoft. The game was making a profit, they just chose to close it in order to focus more on other efforts, all of which ended up being failures. I tend to think it was unbridled optimism (toward their new products), where clear-headed reasoning would have lead them to keep running something that was making any profit (like CoH).

[Arcana]

Ice tank was dominant not because of defense (as I stated in my past post that really dose little for you except in case of toons w/o BU or Aim trollers and doms being somewhat affected by this) actually the main form of protection for ice tank (and what made them FoTM in PvP) was Chilling Embrace, that did –speed (so the target will stay in melee range), -rech, and the –dmg (that and hibernate+hoarfrost.)

I agree, which is why I said if you're going to PvP with a melee character in which Defense is the primary source of damage mitigation (I should have added "by design") then you really need special skills because pre-I13 that defense was of limited (read: almost none) usefulness against someone else specifically building for PvP.

As to chilling embrace, it was my understanding that even before I13 the top PvPers were already building for high movement strength to counter movement slows.  Was that not the case?  Because of the way strength buffs work, high movement buffs would act to largely nullify CE's slow in this context.  I think its a good idea to use them, but I wouldn't count on them working against a strong PvPer (assuming I was alive against a strong PvPer long enough to notice).

True story about Ice/* tanks and PvP.  My main badge hunter had the Cold Mastery epic for a period of time and ran Frozen armor a lot.  It took a while for me to realize that one of the reasons why PvPers were not just instantly sniping me out of the sky in RV when I went badge hunting in there was because the frozen armor visual effect made me look like an Ice tanker, and unless you recognized me and knew I was a middling PvPer you might not realize the thing you think is an Ice tank on the prowl is really an Energy blaster trying not to get shot.

[MM3squints]

I agree, which is why I said if you're going to PvP with a melee character in which Defense is the primary source of damage mitigation (I should have added "by design") then you really need special skills because pre-I13 that defense was of limited (read: almost none) usefulness against someone else specifically building for PvP.
As to chilling embrace, it was my understanding that even before I13 the top PvPers were already building for high movement strength to counter movement slows.  Was that not the case?  Because of the way strength buffs work, high movement buffs would act to largely nullify CE's slow in this context.  I think it's a good idea to use them, but I wouldn't count on them working against a strong PvPer (assuming I was alive against a strong PvPer long enough to notice).

Dueling is different beast from team PvP. Yes people were making SJ+SS builds, but again all the /EM tank needs to do is get one stun off to detoggle you (hence whoever burns BFs first loses.) Pre i13, if you get mezed, all your toggles drop do while in the time the tank is wailing on you while your mezed you. Not only are your movements detoggled when stunned, but the –rech would prevent your ss or sj from recharging even after the stun wears off giving your additional free hits (while the target is slowed)

Although pre i13 pvp SS+SJ was the standard, that doesn't mean that was the only way to fight. I didn't have SS with my ice/rad and besides ice/em and mind/fire, he did pretty well. The only movement in PvP I would say is obsolete is probably flying just because there are so many attacks that give –fly.

True story about Ice/* tanks and PvP.  My main badge hunter had the Cold Mastery epic for a period of time and ran Frozen armor a lot.  It took a while for me to realize that one of the reasons why PvPers were not just instantly sniping me out of the sky in RV when I went badge hunting in there was because the frozen armor visual effect made me look like an Ice tanker, and unless you recognized me and knew I was a middling PvPer you might not realize the thing you think is an Ice tank on the prowl is really an Energy blaster trying not to get shot.

Keep in mind you played on Triumph. RV was pretty dead and the only people who went into VR occasionally was VV, Ink Man, Soto, Otello, and the people of OS as villians (which really didn't happen often) Out of the bunch possibly the most dedicated Zone PvPers were VV and Ink Man and they both played Stalkers (this is pre i13.) Majority of the time, zone PvP was in Warburg because that is where most the action was. Plus everyone rolled a hero PvP because of the ladder being Hero. There was a villain ladder, but it wasn't as big.

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

Almost everybody thinks it was simple a bad decision by NCSoft. The game was making a profit, they just chose to close it in order to focus more on other efforts, all of which ended up being failures. I tend to think it was unbridled optimism (toward their new products), where clear-headed reasoning would have lead them to keep running something that was making any profit (like CoH).

Well CoH was a relatively minor Western-only game (also their only such game at that time) at a moment when NCsoft was basically shutting down and consolidating all their offices outside Korea and refocusing on the home market, which is where most of their money was, so closing/selling off Paragon Studios may have seemed the simplest and least difficult approach.  The selling off bid got scuttled due to a sticking point between NCsoft and Paragon Studios which left closing down as the sole option left. This of course ignores cultural differences between Korean and Western gamers and businesses, but then if you're in the middle of refocusing on the local market that may not seem like much of a concern.

[Sinistar]

Almost everybody thinks it was simple a bad decision by NCSoft. The game was making a profit, they just chose to close it in order to focus more on other efforts, all of which ended up being failures. I tend to think it was unbridled optimism (toward their new products), where clear-headed reasoning would have lead them to keep running something that was making any profit (like CoH).

Indeed, ending a profitable item is akin to killing the Golden Goose. 
All they had to do was keep the game in zombie/maintenance mode with a few mods to handle issues that get petitioned, then they could have taken the time to locate a buyer that doesn't offend them and sell off the game.

[Biz]

It took a while for me to realize that one of the reasons why PvPers were not just instantly sniping me out of the sky in RV when I went badge hunting in there was because the frozen armor visual effect made me look like an Ice tanker, and unless you recognized me and knew I was a middling PvPer you might not realize the thing you think is an Ice tank on the prowl is really an Energy blaster trying not to get shot.

I think anyone that actually PvPed would've at the least targeted you (especially since you were on Triumph and likely one of the only targets in RV) and seen you weren't a tank. I'm going to have to side with Squints on this one.

Keep in mind you played on Triumph. RV was pretty dead and the only people who went into VR occasionally was VV, Ink Man, Soto, Otello, and the people of OS as villians (which really didn't happen often) Out of the bunch possibly the most dedicated Zone PvPers were VV and Ink Man and they both played Stalkers (this is pre i13.) Majority of the time, zone PvP was in Warburg because that is where most the action was. Plus everyone rolled a hero PvP because of the ladder being Hero. There was a villain ladder, but it wasn't as big.

You are forgetting the best PvP group on Triumph. XA. They had huge pvpness.   

[MM3squints]

You are forgetting the best PvP group on Triumph. XA. They had huge pvpness.   

All day.. Apparently or something like that.