New efforts!

[InOnePiece]

I am just curious for those who want the game so badly - but don't want to pay for it - how in your mind will the new company get enough money to pay off the investment and keep the servers running?

I really am curious, this new company has never had a dime of your money.

Volume.

[Volcanichic]

I am just curious for those who want the game so badly - but don't want to pay for it - how in your mind will the new company get enough money to pay off the investment and keep the servers running?

I really am curious, this new company has never had a dime of your money.

Wasn't it you who said a holding company was being formed and would also be overseen by someone (or at least partly) from NCsoft that answered to and leased the property from Ncsoft? So basically , yes! You are paying NCsoft a second time for something you paid them for already and they took away.

Just being honest here, I love and miss the game but at the same time,,have no plan's or desire to pay a second time for something I already had.  Not here to troll, or ruffle feathers. And saying these things in the "backyard" of the fan base is never popular. I'm just pointing out the fact that that's how a lot of people will feel about it.  Unless there's more details behind the scene's that will make the light of day to sway me the other way.

[Ironwolf]

I get it, lose a little on every player but make it up in volume.

Hmmm, seems like you would lose even more then - but hey Arcana is the math guru :)

[Ironwolf]

Wasn't it you who said a holding company was being formed and would also be overseen by someone (or at least partly) from NCsoft that answered to and leased the property from Ncsoft? So basically , yes! You are paying NCsoft a second time for something you paid them for already and they took away.

Just being honest here, I love and miss the game but at the same time,,have no plan's or desire to pay a second time for something I already had.  Not here to troll, or ruffle feathers. And saying these things in the "backyard" of the fan base is never popular. I'm just pointing out the fact that that's how a lot of people will feel about it.  Unless there's more details behind the scene's that will make the light of day to sway me the other way.

Uh no, the holding company is NOT NCSoft. The LEASING group that leases the IP will have an NCSoft presence so they can see where the name is going - since it has their logo on it.

The company running the old game is completely independent. They are paying to get the software, run the servers and maintain the Classic game. They will need money to do this unless the federal government decrees that CoH is too big to fail and bails it out - while with the insanity we have in Washington makes this remotely possible, don't count on it.

So the new business will need money to run and get return on investment. If this was me - I would want to get back 8-12% on my original investment at the very least, since I could get that with a good stock market portfolio. This is business and not a charity. They will need to have money to survive.

[Volcanichic]

Uh no, the holding company is NOT NCSoft. The LEASING group that leases the IP will have an NCSoft presence so they can see where the name is going - since it has their logo on it.

The company running the old game is completely independent. They are paying to get the software, run the servers and maintain the Classic game. They will need money to do this unless the federal government decrees that CoH is too big to fail and bails it out - while with the insanity we have in Washington makes this remotely possible, don't count on it.

So the new business will need money to run and get return on investment. If this was me - I would want to get back 8-12% on my original investment at the very least, since I could get that with a good stock market portfolio. This is business and not a charity. They will need to have money to survive.

You just basically echo'd exactly what I just said !  It's a holding company with a member of NCsoft that pays and answers to NCsoft.

[Fable]

The thing is, there was never a guaranty on how long the game lasted. We payed for the right to play game, that is all. In NCs eyes the game ran its course so they closed it. Anyone that participates in an MMO should do so with the understanding that you're basically throwing money in a pit, it's not an investment and it's unfair to look at it as such. I understand that some may not want to pay again. But guess what, the game is gone, it doesn't exist anymore. You're money is already gone, over two years gone at that. You have to look at it as a new game that coming out, sure it has the same stuff you've already played but for all intents and purposes it's a new game. And if you want to play it, pay up, or don't play it. No one is forcing you to play, but if want to relive the greatness of COX, you're probably going to have to pay for it one way or another.

[Ironwolf]

You just basically echo'd exactly what I just said !  It's a holding company with a member of NCsoft that pays and answers to NCsoft.

NCSoft owns the IP to CoH. They will lease it out for other products - this is normal business to lease IP, the folks making CoH 1.5 the Atlas Project are leasing the UnReal 4 engine to remake the game and CoT is using the same engine in their game.

The classic original CoH - is going to be run from a separate entity. They likely will lease the IP - but the game will belong to them. This is normal business in software. I have no idea of your experience - but this is how things work in the gaming business. Nothing in this deal is unusual except that NCSoft is doing it. They are likely finding it an interesting thought that they take no risks, they put up no money and yet they can make a profit off the property and a little off the leases. I would not doubt once this deal is done that other folks who had games close may offer similar terms to restore their game.

I know Codewalker has said that another game runs disk images on North American and European servers. Most of this again is normal business except they are letting startup companies run it.

[Volcanichic]

NCSoft owns the IP to CoH. They will lease it out for other products - this is normal business to lease IP, the folks making CoH 1.5 the Atlas Project are leasing the UnReal 4 engine to remake the game and CoT is using the same engine in their game.

The classic original CoH - is going to be run from a separate entity. They likely will lease the IP - but the game will belong to them. This is normal business in software. I have no idea of your experience - but this is how things work in the gaming business. Nothing in this deal is unusual except that NCSoft is doing it. They are likely finding it an interesting thought that they take no risks, they put up no money and yet they can make a profit off the property and a little off the leases. I would not doubt once this deal is done that other folks who had games close may offer similar terms to restore their game.

I know Codewalker has said that another game runs disk images on North American and European servers. Most of this again is normal business except they are letting startup companies run it.

This is exactly what i'm talking about!! LOL!!! I really knew it would roll like this considering this is the fan base school yard. And in any game when you point out ,call out or hell even just post your own view point you usually do get leveled by the fan base for doing so.

So this company deemed NA and a game that was popular here enough to still be profitable( according to its own head dev Matt Miller) as unworthy of their time enough to pull the plug. But their fine with making money off of it as long as the fan base is willing to front the cost and assume all the risk while they control , oversee it and make money off of it without putting up a dime?

I'm sorry,,and again i'm sure my view wont be the popular one. I miss and want the game back  , but not enough to feel like i'm letting myself be taken advantage off.

Hell, in an earlier post I even said" if people are ok with it then rock on!!" Enjoy!!  For me ,its not.  Some people may feel the same . They may get flooded with cash right off the bat,but at the same time it wouldn't shock me if they didnt.

[Ankhammon]

Based upon the posts on this page... Did I miss the big announcement? When were all the details of the sale, I mean lease, released? (Please no one read this as something more than me commenting on the last few posts).

It seems like we are jumping the gun here. Until the sale is completed, we don't know what kind of involvement NCSoft is going to have... unless someone knows more than they are saying they do.

And I know there is still some bitterness toward NCSoft but I don't really blame them exclusively for what happened 2 yrs ago. Without anyone ever expressly saying it, it seems to me that Paragon might have been partially at fault for CoH going under.

It's known that they were using CoH profits to fund development of another game (or was it two?). While this may have been a smart move for Paragon, it might have been rubbing NCsoft the wrong way. It definitely would have eaten into the profits they would have seen.

And we do know there were "personality" differences between our former Dev group and NCsoft. That could have easily been brought about by NCsoft looking at the game and saying they want more profit from it but that not being available due to development on the other game. Did NCsoft have any stake in that other game?

Finally, I really don't like sounding like the NCsoft apologist or PR guy, but I know I do in this post. 

[Teikiatsu]

Woo hoo, over half a million views on this thread!  (500718 as of this post)

[Volcanichic]

Based upon the posts on this page... Did I miss the big announcement? When were all the details of the sale, I mean lease, released? (Please no one read this as something more than me commenting on the last few posts).

Nah!!  Just good ole net talk with CoH fans . One of which (namely me) feeling like this comic below if NC is involved and is making money from things already paid for once before in the past. But again,,maybe feelings will change as more details get released.

Can you guess who NC and who the CoH gamer is?

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/schulz_c_gallery5.html

Just one persons feelings. Not the end of the world . Comic just for fun . ;D

[Ankhammon]

Nah!!  Just good ole net talk with CoH fans . One of which (namely me) feeling like this comic below if NC is involved and is making money from things already paid for once before in the past. But again,,maybe feelings will change as more details get released.

Can you guess who NC and who the CoH gamer is?

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/schulz_c_gallery5.html

Just one persons feelings. Not the end of the world . Comic just for fun . ;D

Hey, we all have things that irk us. Just remember next time to aim for Lucy's tuccas. ;-)

[Volcanichic]

Hey, we all have things that irk us. Just remember next time to aim for Lucy's tuccas. ;-)

Or get a little help from a hero  :P

http://io9.com/5876256/charlie-brown-finally-kicks-the-football-with-a-little-help-from-spider-man

[Fable]

Nah!!  Just good ole net talk with CoH fans . One of which (namely me) feeling like this comic below if NC is involved and is making money from things already paid for once before in the past. But again,,maybe feelings will change as more details get released.

Keep in mind that NCsoft isn't trying to bring the game back it, it's COX players. It's not like it's part of some evil NCsoft plan to scam you out of more money. Right now the game is nonexistent. Our money's gone dude. It's an MMO, they have life spans. This one just happens to be getting another chance thanks the sheer will of the player base. You can't really count the money you've already spent against the revival, it just makes no sense. You can't hold MMOs to same standards as regular games, they're subscription service, you own zero parts of the game. You pay for entertainment, if a movie leaves a theater only to be rereleased two years down the road you don't get to go watch it for free because you paid to go see it the first time.

[Ironwolf]

Nothing new is being released - nope the sale isn't complete. Downix has said the game is going to be run by a 3rd party. WarCabbit said that NCSoft would like a person involved with the leasing of the IP - which is reasonable and fair.

Some folks will read whatever you say to fit their own narrative. NCSoft is not running the classic CoH once the deal is over. Repeatedly it has been said and by multiple people and still somehow it gets twisted to say see - NCSoft is running it and I would rather burn the game to the ground and pee on the ashes than play the game ever again and give NCSoft a dollar.

Face palm doesn't come close to what my reaction is. People work hard for months to make a deal putting their own time and money in it and it is dismissed in an instant.

You are going to have to help pay to run the servers. Part of that money will be either directly going to NCSoft for the lease of the game IP or to pay off the purchase costs. NCSoft is not going to give the game away for free.

[Ironwolf]

Keep in mind that NCsoft isn't trying to bring the game back it, it's COX players. It's not like it's part of some evil NCsoft plan to scam you out of more money. Right now the game is nonexistent. Our money's gone dude. It's an MMO, they have life spans. This one just happens to be getting another chance thanks the sheer will of the player base. You can't really count the money you've already spent against the revival, it just makes no sense. You can't hold MMOs to same standards as regular games, they're subscription service, you own zero parts of the game. You pay for entertainment, if a movie leaves a theater only to be rereleased two years down the road you don't get to go watch it for free because you paid to go see it the first time.

The person has an agenda. They are reading into whatever you say a tale that fits their own narrative. We give people a lot of leeway in this forum and this is going to the edge. I don't work for NCSoft. I was trying to get the game back - another group took over - they don't work for NCSoft either.

NCSoft is going to get money from either the sale or the lease of the IP. If I won the Powerball tonight and offered to buy the entire thing for $100 million - NCSoft is still getting paid. There comes a point where people have left all the facts behind and moved forward and their own opinions. Players are bringing the game back. Players are the only ones who care enough to do so.

[Fable]

You are going to have to help pay to run the servers. Part of that money will be either directly going to NCSoft for the lease of the game IP or to pay off the purchase costs. NCSoft is not going to give the game away for free.

I think leasing the IP is what people are hanging up on as it still implies a reliance on NCsoft. Which I feel could be a legit concern. Admittedly, I don't know much about the business end of things.

[umber]

I have 4 accounts worth of funds ready to give to whoever restores my access to CoX gaming along with a willingness to throw a hefty one-time "welcome back, here are your vet awards" (or something equivalent-similar) fee.  I've more free cash than I had two years ago and more free time to throw it at.  Just waiting for someone to step up and take my cash sitting on the table.

I hold no special ill-will towards NCSoft and while there is some minor annoyance at the idea of "paying them  twice" I'm nowhere near close enough to that mild irritant being the singular holdup from revisiting a beloved hobby. 

[Volcanichic]

And again . I said these were my fears and concerns with the game in this thread and another . No agenda to be had . No facts twisted anywhere. I even said to those who are ok with it ,Rock on and enjoy!!!.  But to have someone say there's some hidden agenda when there's none to be had in an effort to dismiss someones genuine concerns. Well ,,isn't that indeed fanboyism at it's core?

Be mad all you want. There's still people with those same concerns. And once again,,like I said before,,maybe more info will be released that will put that to rest ,,maybe not.

Life rolls along right?

[Reaper]

At this point, what other options do any of us have?  NCSoft owns what we want.  You either have to deal with what is available/offered to us or not get anything at all.  Plain and simple.