Doubters and Downers. . .

[Ohioknight]

Do you really believe that if NCSoft was blowing them off. They wouldn't be able to tell that and wouldn't tell us that?

I believe that from the information we had at the beginning of this thread it was perfectly reasonable to believe that (edited correction: to SUSPECT that), yes.

If negotiations had become non-responsive it would have been reasonable for the folks negotiating to still be waiting word and not passing that information on since they could still hope that the lack of response did not mean a dead deal.

I'm very glad that we have now been clearly told that that is not the case and that there is indeed activity
(even the news/rumor of an NCSoft involvement in the holding company is great news since it shows there is indeed very active negotiation being kicked around)

I am hopeful that we will hear an announcement within the next few months

[Drauger9]

I am hopeful that we will hear an announcement within the next few months

Me too, We just have to be patient.


\m/ this community is awesome and always will be. :)

[Zerohour]

For me, I just can't get my head around the idea that NCSoft is sitting on a dead IP (CoH).  An IP that is making them ZERO cash at the moment.  For all intents and purposes it's on a shelf collecting dust.  A group of people come along and say hey, we would love to give you some money to buy the rights to run that IP in its current state.  We don't  want to change it, or improve it much.  Just run it as it was when you turned it off.  NCSoft goes, hmm, maybe, but do all these things first to prove you are competent.  These people jump through some hoops, prove they can handle running the game.  Then are made to wait.  And wait.  And wait.

I don't care if it's Korean culture or not.  It's horribly rude to make people wait for an answer to something that will give NCSoft revenue whereas none was being made before.

[pinballdave]

I am rather ... less than exuberant about the process, but indeed, if the deal were dead, the purchasing team would say so.

There are many aspects to this deal we can speculate what is taking time.

First, the fact that they get no income from the IP is indeed a boost to their desire to make a deal.

Second, this is a business in the Far East: they will want to maintain their reputation. From this reputation aspect comes many, many considerations as to who is buying the IP.

Another delay is also probably due to the restructuring with the WildStar team.

This is also an unusual deal. The zombie binary game and the IP together appears to me to be almost unique. Difficult but not impossible.

I am speculating, but once they passed a certain threshold, the timeliness of closing this deal is superceded by the preparation for the year end close. I do believe their year end is Dec. 31 and the reports are released in early March after the outside auditors have finished their work.

These are not pessimistic considerations, but they and other probable features, undelineated here, to the deal make an imminent cinching of the deal less likely.

[Illusionss]

Who said I didn't "grok" it?  Now you're making assumptions about what I do and don't understand.

I suppose next you're going to tell me that making unwarranted assumptions, a condescending "HEL-LO!" and oversimplification is not insulting, either.  Well, if you say so.

Now go read what I said again: insulting people is not going to make them any more patient.

Uh, ditto.

You are the one, who for whatever reason, chose to take my in-general post as if it were aimed directly at you personally.

If you do not understand or agree with why people are on the down-low at this point, I don't know what more I can say. The dealmakers cannot speak in public, and they cannot choose what you do or do not choose to believe. Nor will they break NDA to specifically address anyone's concerns. If you wish to believe this project is dead, that's your right. People all over the Internet believe far nuttier things, and the world keeps right on spinning.

[Ironwolf]

For me, I just can't get my head around the idea that NCSoft is sitting on a dead IP (CoH).  An IP that is making them ZERO cash at the moment.  For all intents and purposes it's on a shelf collecting dust.  A group of people come along and say hey, we would love to give you some money to buy the rights to run that IP in its current state.  We don't  want to change it, or improve it much.  Just run it as it was when you turned it off.  NCSoft goes, hmm, maybe, but do all these things first to prove you are competent.  These people jump through some hoops, prove they can handle running the game.  Then are made to wait.  And wait.  And wait.

I don't care if it's Korean culture or not.  It's horribly rude to make people wait for an answer to something that will give NCSoft revenue whereas none was being made before.

Here is something you may have never considered:

NCSoft does not feel they owe you anything. This runs contrary to the entitlement mentality you may have been brought up with. CoH belongs to THEM. They can sell it with whatever deal they wish to make. You don't care about their culture - but they do. This exact attitude is what ended the first deal, that people injected negative attitudes instead of positive and thankful ones.

I thank NCSoft for being willing to talk to our folks and for their Multi-billion dollar company to even allow a statrtup company a chance to buy or lease one of their titles. This is reality. NCSoft who is like the McDonalds of gaming is allowing us a chance to buy the rights to call our hamburger Big Macs.

If you think your impatient and demanding attitude helps - it doesn't and only frustrates you - who in turn then attack the very people who are trying to help you. This is grown damn people territory. A company who normally would laugh at us trying to talk to them - is allowing us to do so. If you don't believe this if you have any trust in what I say - they have laughed at other companies who tried to get the game in the past.

The game does not belong to you. NCSoft does not have to sell it or even talk to us - but because we have remained respectful and have not sent 10,000 letters and masks - but stayed above the fray and let the deal work - they are slowly concluding it. At NCSoft speed.

[Burnt Toast]

My only complaint about some of these posts are the MAJOR assumptions.


People assuming NCSoft is going slow... I'm sorry where did you get that information from? Are you sure it's not negotiations on both parties slowing things down? Are you aware of any of the actual negotiations that are transpiring? Can you tell me the date that NCSoft last spoke to the team.. No... oh that's right... you are making assumptions and putting your guess out there as factual... every time you state NCSoft is moving slowly/dragging their feet/etc... you have NO idea why the negotiations are taking so long... just know this... negotiations are continually ongoing... until the deal is signed... by BOTH parties involved.


The people negotiating for the IP... are fans. Do you really think if things fell apart and nothing is happening...they would string their peers (Titan members) along and not just release a statement saying "Deal fell through...we are going to regroup and make another attempt." ???


I'm so tired of the negative assumptions when people have been given quite a few facts. Be frustrated like the majority of people... that's fine... heck I'm frustrated...I would love to login right now and play. But be respectful for those who have been working their butts off to bring CoH back by not spreading misinformation, assumptions, and fear.


Everyone has been told: The negotiations are ongoing...that's all that can be said for legal reasons. TADA ... now you know everything. The deal is still in the works. See there... no one getting blamed for anything...nothing being assumed... no fear mongering... no Facebook paranoia/conspiracies...


The deal is still ongoing....RELAX! Stop blaming people when you have NO idea what is transpiring between NCSoft and the team.

[Thunder Glove]

People assuming NCSoft is going slow... I'm sorry where did you get that information from?

Um, I already explained where people are getting that idea - from the topic which is supposed to keep us updated, but hasn't had any meaningful updates since the 2nd of October.  (It's since been explained that there's still stuff happening, but it's still not in the topic that's supposed to keep us up to date)

Are you sure it's not negotiations on both parties slowing things down? Are you aware of any of the actual negotiations that are transpiring? Can you tell me the date that NCSoft last spoke to the team..

No, but I can look at a topic that is supposed to be keeping us up to date, and see that there's been no apparent movement since October 2nd.

No... oh that's right... you are making assumptions and putting your guess out there as factual... every time you state NCSoft is moving slowly/dragging their feet/etc... you have NO idea why the negotiations are taking so long... just know this... negotiations are continually ongoing... until the deal is signed... by BOTH parties involved.

No, now you're making assumptions.  For the third time, here is the most recent information the majority of us have:

UPDATE October 2 2014:

Proof of developer viability was submitted and accepted. The ball is in NCsoft's court while they assess the group's expertise and backing. No news is good news.

(Update Dec 14: No change.)

"The ball is in NCSoft's court" and "no change" doesn't at all sound like "talks and activity are still ongoing", it sounds like the team has beeb waiting for a response since October 2nd.  That's not an assumption, that's called "making deductions based on known data".

I'm so tired of the negative assumptions when people have been given quite a few facts.

What facts?  It's great that you are being fed secret behind-the-scenes information that indicates that things are still happening, but the majority of us aren't getting that, and we can only make deductions based on the facts we do have  And, again, the facts we do have are the following:

UPDATE October 2 2014:

Proof of developer viability was submitted and accepted. The ball is in NCsoft's court while they assess the group's expertise and backing. No news is good news.

(Update Dec 14: No change.)

Sure, in this topic, you and others have repeatedly stated that the negotiations are still ongoing, which is great, but what I'm saying is that that bit of information should be put into the topic that is supposed to be keeping us up to date on what's going on.  It should say "no news, but negotiations are ongoing", not "no news is good news!", because the latter is a meaningless cliche.

[Ohioknight]

This runs contrary to the entitlement mentality you may have been brought up with. CoH belongs to THEM. They can sell it with whatever deal they wish to make.

I don't disagree with the point of your post, but I would note the following which is a far broader concern than the NCSoft deal and CoH.

The reason intellectual property laws exist is to ENSURE the availability of intellectual property.  The entitlement mentality regarding IP is the mentality behind the basic idea of "Intellectual Property".   

Without treating certain categories of ideas and information as "property", like land or tools, there is no way in our system to ensure market reward and incentive to the creators of that "property" and therefore the world is the poorer.  So Copyright ensures reward to writers (etc.) for their creations for a specific period of time before those "rights" expire and the public has the same rights to that knowledge that the public had before "intellectual property" was defined in law.  Patent ensures that a period of time exists where someone who creates a new product will receive reward for their creation before that creation's ownership reverts to the intellectual heritage of the entire world.

The purpose in law is to prevent creators from withholding their creations and making the world poorer.  This has become perverted in the modern world so that IP can now be used  for the specific OPPOSITE purpose for which those rights are granted.  CoH "belongs" to NCSoft... it has every right to charge billions for access to that IP, it does not have the "RIGHT" to withhold access to it's IP -- it has the legal ability to do so but that is not a "RIGHT" -- it is a wrong.

Which is totally irrelevant to the negotiations of this or any deal, and it's a reality of the modern world, but that point really should not be forgotten.

[Stealth Dart]

 :-X

[Cailyn Alaynn]

Not a whole lot happens in 90% of the business world during the holiday season. This is no real exception.

And there's not much point in updating that page to simply say that... Yep, Stuff that can't be talked about it still happening.

A big part of the issue I think is that people don't realize there's a big difference in perspective going on. Normally when a group or company announces something...It's not early in the process. Things are already most of the way to being finished.
Here you've got an unprecedented deal that's being worked on, so there's no policy or set standards to work with, that was made public very early on in the dealings.

What I can say about the going ons behind the curtain is limited. I can say that I'm not at all worried about the outcome.

[MM3squints]

Thunder Glove you have made your point.  Stop beating a dead horse.  I am tired of seeing you regurgitate the same post ad nauseum.  Give it a rest!  The deal is ongoing.  Whether or nor they put that in the update post or not is irrelevant.  They are under Non Disclosure Agreements which means they cannot discuss details of the deal.  That is not gonna change no matter how much you whine and bemoan it.  MOVE ON!

Honestly I don't know why there is so much hostility. The people who are actually negotiating didn't say they are packing up, why make a big deal about this? Will seeing threads like this make the people who are actually working the back end think is this game worth saving? Should the people in the back end even attempted to go on with making a attempt because even if a deal is stuck, people will still complain that they should have gotten more and be more pist saying they suck for not getting the entire pie? Looking forward into the future, is it even worth going further for an ungrateful community? I would say yes, because like any community, majority of the population are just lurkers and actually waiting patiently for any news.

Can be today, tomorrow, 5 years, who the heck cares (well besides a few.) Majority of the community are appreciative of the moves these individual are making on their own time and at their own expense. Usually in cases like this the people who make the loudest noise are the ones that have no skin in the game. That statement will anger a few saying, "I have skin in the game, those toons belong to me." My answer to that is no, they are not contributing to move the actual deal forward. They are not looking for what you can do for the community, but what NC Soft will give them. And for that very reason, their concerns are noted and it can bring people down with Malefic tone, but in the grand scheme of things, their opinions with their "facts" is just that, opinions. And their opinions will not change or hinder the back end negotiation. So let them pound sand, it won't mount for much besides showing the community they are trying to use forumjustu to show they are right without having any facts from the actual deal.

[rebel 1812]

For me, I just can't get my head around the idea that NCSoft is sitting on a dead IP (CoH).  An IP that is making them ZERO cash at the moment.  For all intents and purposes it's on a shelf collecting dust.  A group of people come along and say hey, we would love to give you some money to buy the rights to run that IP in its current state.  We don't  want to change it, or improve it much.  Just run it as it was when you turned it off.  NCSoft goes, hmm, maybe, but do all these things first to prove you are competent.  These people jump through some hoops, prove they can handle running the game.  Then are made to wait.  And wait.  And wait.

I don't care if it's Korean culture or not.  It's horribly rude to make people wait for an answer to something that will give NCSoft revenue whereas none was being made before.

couldn't agree more.  I'm sure the shareholders want some ROI for the ip.

[Ankhammon]

Not a whole lot happens in 90% of the business world during the holiday season. This is no real exception.

And there's not much point in updating that page to simply say that... Yep, Stuff that can't be talked about it still happening.

A big part of the issue I think is that people don't realize there's a big difference in perspective going on. Normally when a group or company announces something...It's not early in the process. Things are already most of the way to being finished.
Here you've got an unprecedented deal that's being worked on, so there's no policy or set standards to work with, that was made public very early on in the dealings.

What I can say about the going ons behind the curtain is limited. I can say that I'm not at all worried about the outcome.

Regardless of the opinions, doubts, concerns or any other view of the way this deal has moved forward, we will not be given any real information until negotiations are finished.

What we do have is the attitudes of a couple of our CoH bretheren (and CoT bretheren too) who just might have some inkling as to what is taking shape.

The one thing I've noticed as time has moved on is an enhanced optimism by Irish_Girl, Ironwolf and even from some from the CoT side (Warcabbot).
While this does not actually give us any real insight as to the negotiations, I feel the optimistic rush because of what I've read and heard.

As to the rest of us, we just have suppositions and conjecture based on our opinions and feelings.

My advice is to listen to the following and replace the word love with negotiation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omovUmbbAgo

[Burnt Toast]

Except they aren't JUST sitting on the IP... they are involved in active negotiations for it's sale... just saying.

couldn't agree more.  I'm sure the shareholders want some ROI for the ip.

[HEATSTROKE]

Except they aren't JUST sitting on the IP... they are involved in active negotiations for it's sale... just saying.

this simple fact seems to be eluding people..

[SammiK31]

I don't know anything when it comes to business, I know it's taking a long time guys, but come on, can't we just be happy that people are trying to do something? Ironwolf has it right, NCSoft don't have to talk to anyone about the game, they don't even have to entertain the idea. They could dissect it and sell it for scraps if they wanted. But they're not. They are taking the time, granted, their time, but it is their game after all. They can take as long as they need, as long as they're fair and pleasant throughout. Come on guys, a lot of people are making a lot of effort to make sure this happens. I think we should all be grateful that the game is being put back on the table for discussion of a second chance. Be happy people. We will have our game back. Just takes time, that's all. :)

[Thunder Glove]

Thunder Glove you have made your point.  Stop beating a dead horse.  I am tired of seeing you regurgitate the same post ad nauseum.  Give it a rest!  The deal is ongoing.  Whether or nor they put that in the update post or not is irrelevant.  They are under Non Disclosure Agreements which means they cannot discuss details of the deal.  That is not gonna change no matter how much you whine and bemoan it.  MOVE ON!

I only repeated the same point because, right after making my post, someone else repeated "I don't understand how anyone could make the assumption that nothing is happening."  It's not "beating a dead horse" if the horse is still asking questions.  (... bad analogy, I know)

I'm not sure why you're so angry over me answering someone's question.  If you don't like reading my opinion a second time, then, instead of belittling and insulting me, take your own advice and "MOVE ON!" to the next post.

[ukaserex]

Not a whole lot happens in 90% of the business world during the holiday season.

I have to say this. It's, well, beyond my control. The above quote is far more true than I would have ever guessed. In my new office job, I simply cannot fathom the lack of productivity in people because of the holiday. It just blows my brain out through my ears, in a figurative sense. My supervisor leaves work at 11 a.m. because he hadn't finished his Christmas shopping. Still plenty of work left to do, but well, he had to go shopping, instead of going online, or the night before. Just stuns me.

okay, /end rant

I get where the impatient folks are coming from.
I also get where the patient people are coming from.
I think I'm somewhere in between. I honestly want to respect their culture over there, but I know next to nothing about it, yet, I really don't care to learn. I've gone this long without knowing it. Clearly, that pretty much makes me an ignoramus on the subject.

Our CoH. What a time-sink that game was. There were days I'd start playing at 9 or 10 in the morning, and not stop until the servers reset. (back when they did it about every day) I honestly, in a small, tiny part of my brain, am thrilled that there's no more game to play. I'm just not sure if I could avoid the temptation to install it at work, and instead of working I'd be farming freaks, tabbing out whenever the boss came by. Just a very tiny part. The rest of my brain is ready to let my Netflix sub lapse and stop playing Madden 2008. (last year on the PC)
It'll be my luck that the game will be back and I'd miss it by a few days because I have to force myself to stay away from the forums, lest I revert back to some argumentative, troll-ish ways.

[Zerohour]

First of all, I was under the assumption that this thread was created for the less...positive...members to voice their opinions and concerns.  If that's the case, I don't understand why other members come swooping down from on high to tell us to stop being negative and shake their disapproving fingers at us.  These elite few who know things but can't talk about them, which is understandable, need to realize that we don't have the privilege of insider information.  You might full well know that talks are ongoing, things are being brokered, finer points are being ironed out.  But the "lesser" members who are outside this circle don't have this info available to us.  We just keep getting "Date xxxx - no change" after months of sitting on the last bit of info which basically said "we are waiting for NCSoft to make the next move".

Though I very much appreciate a direct response from Ironwolf, and I also appreciate the fact that he's likely had to answer these same questions over and over again (I'm sure it's running thin on his patience by now), I do NOT appreciate the tone of the response and I feel like assumptions were made about me.  To point - I don't feel like NCSoft owes me a bloody thing, and the fact that they themselves feel the same way shows a painful lack of empathy to its consumer base.  I willingly gave hard earned money and years of my life to that fantastic game CoH, and for them to just up and pull the plug and rub salt in that wound by never fully addressing why they did it, proves 100% that they don't think they owe me anything. 

I was not raised with an "entitlement mentality", and I am not of that generation that you might assume has been.  The only mentality I was raised with was the one that has something to do with knowing where to draw the line when it comes to principle.  Yes, they hold the cards in this deal.  But the fact that they know this, and are taking full advantage of it, is what irks me.  I don't like bullies, and I don't like people who think they have power over others.  And no, the game does not belong to me, and I have no grounds to stake a claim that any part of it does, save the friends and memories and good times I made during my time there.  But far too much is being explained by "Korean culture" and tip-toeing around on eggshells in fear of scaring them off if too many questions get asked or someone pushes harder than they should. 

Respect for "culture" should go both ways.