Doubters and Downers. . .

[Ohioknight]

It has been explained numerous times by numerous people though that aside from... "things are progressing" nothing else can be said due to NDA. Yet people still feel they are owed more information...because... hell I have no idea why they think that actually...

That's why I posted that Spacex thing for comparison. :) 

In that case, a privately held company is developing PROPRIETARY TECHNOLOGY BREAKTHROUGHS that will put PEOPLE ON FREAKING MARS and are critically important to BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in major industry contracts in a highly competitive international business with STRATEGIC WEAPONS IMPLICATIONS!

They've got some grants from NASA, but there's no contract to develop this engine (and no market except for themselves at this point), they're doing it just 'cause Elon Musk wants to put people on Mars.  Nobody has ANY RIGHT to this information.

And people in the online community are busting their chops not because they're refusing to release confidential information or even specs of their privately developed very advanced rocket engine, but because they aren't doing it FAST ENOUGH!!!

I guess my point is, if you're explaining the NDAs to people so they'll quit busting your chops over not giving them info ... don't bother, because it won't stop.  The online forum for our game is just like the online forum for any sports team with devoted fans, or in my example (which strikes me as TOTALLY insane) the online forum for fans of a rocket company. 

They should fire the general manager/head coach/quarterback, switch to a hydrogen/oxygen fueled booster design, and GET CoH BACK NOW! ;D  (and Ben Afleck shouldn't be Batman -- or Micheal Keaton for that matter)

Oh and Merry Christmas!

[Harermuir]

Just to understand a thing.

No news is good news. Ok. But if we still have no news in 6 month ? 1 year ? 10 year ? When will no news start to be bad news ? If NCsoft doesnt attend to say a definitive no, we will never have news. And for me, that's pretty bad.

[HEATSTROKE]

Just to understand a thing.

No news is good news. Ok. But if we still have no news in 6 month ? 1 year ? 10 year ? When will no news start to be bad news ? If NCsoft doesnt attend to say a definitive no, we will never have news. And for me, that's pretty bad.

If the deal were to fall through.. we would hear something..

If as we believe they team trying to make a deal us under NDA then we arent going to hear anything because breaking that could sour the deal. So we need to be patient.

[Surelle]

Just to understand a thing.

No news is good news. Ok. But if we still have no news in 6 month ? 1 year ? 10 year ? When will no news start to be bad news ? If NCsoft doesnt attend to say a definitive no, we will never have news. And for me, that's pretty bad.

You have to remember too that rezzing a zombie edition of a 10-year-old shuttered MMO isn't exactly at the top of their priority list.  They run multiple MMOs both in the East and West, with other upcoming ones (like Lineage Eternal) in development besides.  Personally I'm surprised they care about CoX, its IP or its server snapshot from shutdown night at all.  NCSoft isn't exactly known for their patience or compassion in the gaming industry, lol. 

Not to say that anything will ever come of this, but we are no worse off even if nothing ever happens than we've been for the last two years.  If it happens, it happens.  But I'm thrilled and proud of our player base that people just keep trying, and I really appreciate the efforts of every person who has tried anything at all.   :D

...And if all else fails, there's still SCoRE.TM

[Ironwolf]

You have to remember too that rezzing a zombie edition of a 10-year-old shuttered MMO isn't exactly at the top of their priority list.  They run multiple MMOs both in the East and West, with other upcoming ones (like Lineage Eternal) in development besides.  Personally I'm surprised they care about CoX, its IP or its server snapshot from shutdown night at all.  NCSoft isn't exactly known for their patience or compassion in the gaming industry, lol. 

Not to say that anything will ever come of this, but we are no worse off even if nothing ever happens than we've been for the last two years.  If it happens, it happens.  But I'm thrilled and proud of our player base that people just keep trying, and I really appreciate the efforts of every person who has tried anything at all.   :D

...And if all else fails, there's still SCoRE.TM

This is the thing, we have people who after 2 years STILL want to play so badly they are impatient.

That is passion and why they are still here, they want to know, to help to be involved and the hardest thing is to just wait in silence when you want to scream from the rooftops - I love this damn game and want to play NOW!

Remember - so do all of those involved.

[Ohioknight]

I've been wondering if that which must not be named...
has been more S even than usual over the last months to avoid causing difficulties

I've also been wondering if an outcome might allow the removal of the S
but am now worried that it might mean trouble for S folk

[Thunder Glove]

If the deal were to fall through.. we would hear something..

If as we believe they team trying to make a deal us under NDA then we arent going to hear anything because breaking that could sour the deal. So we need to be patient.

That's not how I was reading the question.  It's not "what happens if they explicitly say no?", it's more akin to "what if they just... stop responding?"

After all, the issue isn't, despite my previous post about being kept in the loop, that the team isn't really keeping us in the loop.  It's that the last update two or three weeks ago was the team explicitly telling us that NCSoft hasn't contacted them since October 2nd.

I've applied for literally dozens of jobs where potential employers have never said "no", they just reply less and less frequently until they stop replying at all.

So "They haven't contacted us in any way for more than two months, but they haven't said no!" isn't necessarily an indication that things are still all hunky-dory.

When does "no news is good news" turn into "no news means that NCSoft has forgotten about us (or is just hoping we'll go away)"?

[SammiK31]

I have to say, I'm a bit of everything, im terrified the deal will fall through, but I'm also positive COH will be back! The way I see it is, you can't rush perfection, no matter how much you want to, or I. I think a great deal is being done to get the game back, and I really do feel that because so many of us are here, expressing our need to play the game, or reminiscing about friends, groups and old missions, that's what will keep the game alive and forever having a chance to pop up again and make us all happy. To reunite with old friends and foes.
I like to think people expressing their impatience is kind of a good thing, it just goes to show how much this game really means to people. As long as we are here, talking, fighting, and finding new opportunities to get this game up and running, it will always have a chance. And we will be home again. :)

[Ironwolf]

That's not how I was reading the question.  It's not "what happens if they explicitly say no?", it's more akin to "what if they just... stop responding?"

After all, the issue isn't, despite my previous post about being kept in the loop, that the team isn't really keeping us in the loop.  It's that the last update two or three weeks ago was the team explicitly telling us that NCSoft hasn't contacted them since October 2nd.

I've applied for literally dozens of jobs where potential employers have never said "no", they just reply less and less frequently until they stop replying at all.

So "They haven't contacted us in any way for more than two months, but they haven't said no!" isn't necessarily an indication that things are still all hunky-dory.

When does "no news is good news" turn into "no news means that NCSoft has forgotten about us (or is just hoping we'll go away)"?

I am certain at this stage that is not going to happen. If NCSoft has worked with the team enough to agree to tie one of their own people to help watch over the leasing of the CoH IP - that means they are serious. It also means they are cautious and rightly so. It isn't like NCSoft is selling it to Blizzard or Valve and they have a proven track record on games - they are leasing it to new folks. They are programmers and developers but they don't have a track record with running 10 games and marketing them.

We want the game and to keep it running for another 5-10 years or until a revamped version is out and plays the way we are used to. The team taking over doesn't have the track record yet and I would bet NCSoft is making absolutely sure everything is in place.

[Burnt Toast]

Uhm not sure where you read that NCSOFT has not contacted the team at all since October 2nd....

What was said is.... No news is good news... meaning... the deal is still being negotiated but due to an NDA specifics cannot be stated.

Not sure how you got explicitly...that there has been no communication from NCSOFT for almost 3 months now out of that statement. 

That's not how I was reading the question.  It's not "what happens if they explicitly say no?", it's more akin to "what if they just... stop responding?"

After all, the issue isn't, despite my previous post about being kept in the loop, that the team isn't really keeping us in the loop.  It's that the last update two or three weeks ago was the team explicitly telling us that NCSoft hasn't contacted them since October 2nd.

I've applied for literally dozens of jobs where potential employers have never said "no", they just reply less and less frequently until they stop replying at all.

So "They haven't contacted us in any way for more than two months, but they haven't said no!" isn't necessarily an indication that things are still all hunky-dory.

When does "no news is good news" turn into "no news means that NCSoft has forgotten about us (or is just hoping we'll go away)"?

[Ironwolf]

Yes, Burnt toast - it isn't that we don't have anything happening - it is that the talks are still happening. This is good news. Bad news would be nothing is happening and they won't talk.

Things are going forward - just slowly. You go to buy a new car and the sales guy says we can't add all those options in for the base price. You say well how about for and extra $2k? He says - I need to go ask the manager and runs off. Then he comes back and says well for $2k we can throw in the large rims but not the top of the line stereo and speakers or the custom paint. You say well what does he want for those?

This is what is happening right now. They are checking things off they want and NCSoft is getting the things they want to see. Likely we are dealing with an associate who is then taking the deal back to the manager. The manager says these 3 items are fine but those 4 we can't do for that price. So both sides are trying to get the most value for the money.

[Ohioknight]

Uhm not sure where you read that NCSOFT has not contacted the team at all since October 2nd....

What was said is.... No news is good news... meaning... the deal is still being negotiated but due to an NDA specifics cannot be stated.

Not sure how you got explicitly...that there has been no communication from NCSOFT for almost 3 months now out of that statement.

In fairness, I had gotten the same impression... I know folks who are getting informal updates are aware stuff is happening, but those not hearing other channels were only seeing a complete stop of info in October after being told NCSoft hadn't responded for a while -- "No news is good news" -- meaning they hadn't rejected the deal, not that any form of activity was ongoing.

I didn't know better until Burnt told me I was full of crap (thank you) but that was meaningful at the time only because I had understood from his posts that Burnt was "inside" to some degree -- if Burnt has announced credentials, I never saw it. 

Within the context of an NDA, surely "No news, activity is ongoing" would have helped.

[Rigo42]

Yes, Burnt toast - it isn't that we don't have anything happening - it is that the talks are still happening. This is good news. Bad news would be nothing is happening and they won't talk.

Things are going forward - just slowly. You go to buy a new car and the sales guy says we can't add all those options in for the base price. You say well how about for and extra $2k? He says - I need to go ask the manager and runs off. Then he comes back and says well for $2k we can throw in the large rims but not the top of the line stereo and speakers or the custom paint. You say well what does he want for those?

This is what is happening right now. They are checking things off they want and NCSoft is getting the things they want to see. Likely we are dealing with an associate who is then taking the deal back to the manager. The manager says these 3 items are fine but those 4 we can't do for that price. So both sides are trying to get the most value for the money.

This is actually a really, really good way to explain what's going on :D

[Thunder Glove]

Uhm not sure where you read that NCSOFT has not contacted the team at all since October 2nd....

What was said is.... No news is good news... meaning... the deal is still being negotiated but due to an NDA specifics cannot be stated.

Not sure how you got explicitly...that there has been no communication from NCSOFT for almost 3 months now out of that statement.

Um, I got it from here:

UPDATE October 2 2014:

Proof of developer viability was submitted and accepted. The ball is in NCsoft's court while they assess the group's expertise and backing. No news is good news.

(Update Dec 14: No change.)

Where in there does it say that there has been any activity?  Right now, all it says is that the proof of viability was submitted on October 2nd and "the ball is in NCSoft's court" (which means that the team is just waiting for a reply), and the next update is "no change" on December 14th (which means that they're still waiting for a reply).  It doesn't say they've actually gotten a reply, let alone anything about ongoing activity of any kind.

Remember, for most of us, that topic is the only place where we can get any news at all, and the only news there is "nothing has happened since October 2".  It's wonderful that there are some of you who are getting secret informal updates behind the scenes, but that's not the majority of people on this forum.  That topic is it, and that topic doesn't say there's anything happening.

That may be what's contributing to the "Doubters and downers".

If there is still activity happening I seriously agree the first post of the "New efforts" topic should be changed to the suggested "no news, activity is ongoing" wording, rather than just the vague "no news is good news", because, as my job-hunting experience has shown, "no news" frequently just means they've forgotten about (or are ignoring) you.

[Ironwolf]

Did you miss Nate Downes whole thread the Mask is Off?

He explains the deal and further explains that things are plodding along and a few details sneak out - like NCSoft and another party will be working together to approve the leasing of CoH.

My thread really was more for my efforts that became Nate's effort and then the Mask is Off thread superceded this one.

[Ohioknight]

Did you miss Nate Downes whole thread the Mask is Off?

He explains the deal and further explains that things are plodding along and a few details sneak out - like NCSoft and another party will be working together to approve the leasing of CoH.

My thread really was more for my efforts that became Nate's effort and then the Mask is Off thread superceded this one.

Nate's post explained the details on Sept. 1... says check the first post of IronWolf's thread for timeline... Was updated on Oct. 2nd to say Missing World's is not involved... and since then has posted "no news is good news"

How does that change Thunder Glove's point?

Remember, for most of us, that topic is the only place where we can get any news at all, and the only news there is "nothing has happened since October 2".  It's wonderful that there are some of you who are getting secret informal updates behind the scenes, but that's not the majority of people on this forum.  That topic is it, and that topic doesn't say there's anything happening.

That may be what's contributing to the "Doubters and downers".

I can tell you specifically that this is the entire reason that there is a thread entitled "Doubters and Downers".

[Drauger9]

Remember, for most of us, that topic is the only place where we can get any news at all, and the only news there is "nothing has happened since October 2".  It's wonderful that there are some of you who are getting secret informal updates behind the scenes, but that's not the majority of people on this forum.  That topic is it, and that topic doesn't say there's anything happening.

That may be what's contributing to the "Doubters and downers".

If there is still activity happening I seriously agree the first post of the "New efforts" topic should be changed to the suggested "no news, activity is ongoing" wording, rather than just the vague "no news is good news", because, as my job-hunting experience has shown, "no news" frequently just means they've forgotten about (or are ignoring) you.

Job hunting and having a group of people who are former CoH players. Spear heading a spiritual successor, negotiating with NCSoft  to get a game back that they love (as much as we do).

Are totally different things. Do you REALLY believe that if they had ANY news good or bad, they wouldn't share it with us IF they could?

Do you really believe that if NCSoft was blowing them off. They wouldn't be able to tell that and wouldn't tell us that?

I know some people just can't help it but I don't see the point in mopping around going "Oh we haven't heard anything in months. It's never going to happen it was all a lie anyway." (I'm just giving an example that I made up).

You guys can believe what ever you want because as I see it. Your going to anyways, as for me, I believe that once we get a definite answer we'll hear it loud and clear.

Now, I don't know about anyone else but I'm going to go grind some xp in Borderlands 2.

[Thunder Glove]

It's clear at this point that you're all deliberately trying to misunderstand me and anyone else who doesn't have secret inside sources of information.

Nate's thread does not have newer information than the New Efforts topic, so looking there doesn't change my point, and with all the talk of "these things take time and they're all on holiday and things move slow and don't rush NCSoft or they may get spooked and run off", they may think that no reply for two months is perfectly normal.

Basically, just read Ohioknight's post.  He got everything I was trying to say.

[Ohioknight]

It's clear at this point that you're all deliberately trying to misunderstand me and anyone else who doesn't have secret inside sources of information.

I'm sure nobody is deliberately trying to misunderstand you... folks have different perspectives and sometimes can't follow the thoughts other people are trying to get across in their posts.

[Drauger9]

It's clear at this point that you're all deliberately trying to misunderstand me and anyone else who doesn't have secret inside sources of information.

Nate's thread does not have newer information than the New Efforts topic, so looking there doesn't change my point, and with all the talk of "these things take time and they're all on holiday and things move slow and don't rush NCSoft or they may get spooked and run off", they may think that no reply for two months is perfectly normal.

Basically, just read Ohioknight's post.  He got everything I was trying to say

I'm not deliberately trying to misunderstand you. I think it's like Ohioknight said. We have two different perspectives.

The point I was trying to get across and I think many others as well. Is I seriously doubt, that these people would go threw all this trouble just to leave us in the dark with no cause.

As I said earlier, I doubt NCSoft is blowing these people off because if they was. I'd like to believe the people involved would be smart enough to realize that and let us know.

I doubt that they haven't told us everything they possible can while being under a NDA (is that what it's called?).

I know the whole "no news is good news" slogan doesn't work for everyone but I personally believe that. If they had an update they thought would fly under the NDA radar, they would of updated us with that information by now.

I hope that clears up my earlier post. I know the waiting is hard but the more you dwell on it, the worse it gets. Atleast in my case it is. LOL!

And back to more gaming goodness.