Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)

[Joshex]

And then sometimes it's just a summer blockbuster we're all meant to enjoy.  I get there are overtones and alternate messages in any film but the fact is that some of these speak more strongly to others.  Who's to say Father Xmas was condoning these messages by liking the film?  I personally didn't pick up on the abortion thing.  Honestly, I thought it was understood that when we're talking that level of power, a fight would bring about some serious wanton destruction.  People are going to get hurt and people are going to die. 

I don't mean for this to sound like an insult or indictment to anyone, I think superman fans are some of the more implacable fans, steeped in tradition, and just as stalwart in their vision of an icon, which is a laudable trait.  Unfortunately, this clashes with the ever evolving taste of the modern audience.  It gets harder and harder, as movie goers preferences become more discerning, to accept that the sum total collateral damage from a super powered tussle is a toupeé flying off and a roller skater getting blown backwards.

my point is that; it seems more and more effort is put into subliminal conditioning and less and less effort is put into plot development.

you know whats better than any of the new superman stories? a definitive version.

thats what hollywood directors weill never make case it doesn't suit thier tastes. they like to make movies based on some fever enduced weird dream they had. it needs to stop.

[Magus Prime]

Just read the good news that the sequel is gonna have a Batman!  Hooray!  That's awesome I love it!  And such a smart move on several levels.  This will bring everything in line for a JL movie sooner and it's one less separate film they have to make. 

Now for the part that makes my heart sink a little bit.  In the article I read, Harry Lennox (General Swanwick, Commander Lock in the Matrix movies) was asked to read a passage from Dark Knight to further whet ComicCon goers' appetites.  I'm left with a moral quandary that nags at me and should merit its own Star Trek: TNG episode.  I strongly feel we need to stop referencing Frank Miller.  It's been the rumblings of a lot of comic book critics that he uses his stories as vehicles for his own ignorance.  Atop that, he's also wayyyy overrated.  (I'm the godda** Batman anyone?) I don't want to turn this into a political thing.  Let me say that again.  I DON'T WANT TO TURN THIS INTO A POLITICAL THING!!!  I only want to say that Frank Miller, for all his contributions, has become irrelevant, outdated, obsolete, and IMO we've all outgrown him.

[Tenzhi]

Subliminal messaging?  Really?  Is the Illuminati behind it this time or the Greys? 

[FatherXmas]

SMOF controlled by the Gnomes of Zurich with their orbiting mind control lasers.

[Golden Girl]

This announcement of a team up with Batman seems a little left-field - while it's an obvious movie to make eventually, it seems kinda rushed to go straight into it from MoS - plus, by bringing in a non-powered partner, it might cramp the range of traditional Superman enemies that they could bring in.
And of course there's also a pretty high chance that the 2 of them will fight each other at some point on the movie, so it'll be interesting to see how they hand the human vs godlike being angle to create a plausible and interesting fight.

[FatherXmas]

When are you going to do Justice League?
When are you going to do Justice League?
When are you going to do Justice League?
When are you going to do Justice League?
When are you going to do Justice League?
When are you going to do Justice League?
When are you going to do Justice League?
When are you going to do Justice League?

Here, Batman, Superman, same movie.  Now shut up so we can figure out a story.

[fdbryant3]

The good news is I think this can be a good step to set up a Justice League movie without  having to go through an intro movie for all the characters.  On the other hand I thing they are being tone deaf to the criticisms of MoS and are going to continue with their cynical view of realism.

[Golden Girl]

This move makes more sense if viewed from WB's perspective - the Nolanverse Batman is their most successful DC adaption, so when their attempt at a Nolanverse Superman failed to match the critical and commercial success of the Nolanverse Batman, the next logics step was to make a Superman movie with Batman in it.

[Todogut]

Ya, but, in Nolanverse, Batman retired and is living the rest of his life peacefully in Paris with Selina Kyle. (Plus, he has hardly any knee cartilage. And, he had retired previously for seven years.)

So, is he gonna unretire to team with Supes? Will Robin John Blake assume the Batman mantle? Does the audience need to be concerned about where in Nolan's Batman chronology this super-team-up takes place?

For that matter, where was Batman when the Kryptonians invaded? Shouldn't a threat to end all life on Earth have drawn Bruce out of retirement? Did he just stay in Gay Paree and drink wine with Selina?

[Thunder Glove]

Despite Nolan being executive producer for Man of Steel, I don't think it's set in the same universe as the Dark Knight films.  This is a more "realistic" (I use the term loosely) take on Superman, but it's not as "realistic" as the Nolan-Batverse.  As soon as you throw flying aliens into the mix, the whole setting goes out the window.

A "realistic" Batman only works in the Nolan-Batverse, where everyone else is just as "realistic".  A Batman/Superman movie, by necessity, has to present a Batman closer to the version in the Brave and the Bold cartoon - not in terms of being campy, but in terms of knowing that he's living in a high-powered world, and being equipped to deal with that.

Trying to come up with a threat that will be a challenge to Superman but won't instantly splatter a "realistic" Batman all over scenery is somewhere between difficult and impossible, but if Batman is wearing body armor, flying around on a jetpack, and throwing exploding Batarangs, then it becomes more feasible.

[JetFlash]

http://problemswithavengers.blogspot.com

I looked through it, and nothing I've seen listed is an actual problem, other than "something the author didn't like".  He isn't just nitpicking, he's making up "problems" just for filler, most of which I answer "Who the heck cares?", and the rest I answer "you have no imagination or sense of humor".  I could go through just about every thing he lists and debunk it.  I won't because I'm not going to waste any more of my time on it.

[houtex]

Since Kal-El isn't your typical Kal-El in MoS, I pretty much doubt they're going to have your typical Bruce Wayne here.  Heck, Batman could be Terry McGinnis, and never even MET a Bruce Wayne.  He's a product of a military organization, or something like CADMUS, and that's how he comes to be.  A mis-mash of things that lead to *a* Batman, but not *the* Batman.

Or perhaps it is Bruce Wayne, who went into the military as a troubled, but rich, orphan to learn to fight and play with techy stuff, so he could then be the vigilante he wants to be... in which case, the Kal-El/Batman fight would make more sense, in that Kal-El is asked to deal with this vigilante?  Maybe.  Or perhaps Bruce is asked to take his stuff and go try to stop Kal-El (Incredible Hulk plotline, anyone?) and then it turns into respect, if not trust, between the two to fight a larger problem... Lex making a Bizarro, say, from recovered Kryptonian tech layin' about Metropolis or the other side of the Earth.

Among a few other ideas I have in my head....

[Golden Girl]

That would just move the story further and further away from any resemblance to the DC universe, and make any Justice League movie more and more of a problem.       

[Magus Prime]

I looked through it, and nothing I've seen listed is an actual problem, other than "something the author didn't like".  He isn't just nitpicking, he's making up "problems" just for filler, most of which I answer "Who the heck cares?", and the rest I answer "you have no imagination or sense of humor".  I could go through just about every thing he lists and debunk it.  I won't because I'm not going to waste any more of my time on it.

Agreed.  By this person's criteria how does one go about enjoying any movie?  I would have to guess the only movie deserving to be on this guy's shelf is Bambi vs. Godzilla because it delivers on its one promise.

[Mantic]

...as movie goers preferences become more discerning....

I disagree.

[Magus Prime]

I disagree.

I'm gonna need  you to elaborate... or pull a proper quote with subject and predicate.

[JetFlash]

Agreed.  By this person's criteria how does one go about enjoying any movie?  I would have to guess the only movie deserving to be on this guy's shelf is Bambi vs. Godzilla because it delivers on its one promise.

Geez, how oblivious does Bambi have to be to not notice the giant radioactive lizard lumbering at him?  And what gawdawful effects, looks like it was drawn on flip paper...

[ag88t88]

I'm gonna need  you to elaborate... or pull a proper quote with subject and predicate.

I'm usually not a fan of sentence fragments myself, but I fully understood and agree with what he was said there, and I think said very well. 

[Magus Prime]

Geez, how oblivious does Bambi have to be to not notice the giant radioactive lizard lumbering at him?  And what gawdawful effects, looks like it was drawn on flip paper...

Lol I stand corrected.

[houtex]

That would just move the story further and further away from any resemblance to the DC universe, and make any Justice League movie more and more of a problem.       

Yeah, well, sticking with DC's universe has done so well with the Superman series past Superman 1, as well as Green Lantern, Jonah Hex, and that atrocity of atrocities, Supergirl.. *shudders*.  Oh, wait, Catwoman.  No, I mean Steel.  Even Watchmen didn't do as well as they'd have liked.  And that was as close a direct adaptation as you can ask, near as I've heard.  (Fantastic movie, ya ask me, though.)

The Batman series had to stop what it was doing after Batman and Robin and reboot.  DC had to change Batman to make it relevant again, hence Nolanverse version.

Point is... doing the expected is not necessarily a good thing.  Change can be good, and in this case, I bet it is.  It will remain to be seen, however.

/Star Trek reboot.
//BSG reboot too.
///TNG while I'm at it.