Being heard

[Ironwolf]

This is the rate scale of one of the regular MMO sites - I won't post the name at this point.

This rate card was last revised December 19, 2012. Rates are effective from Jan 1, 2013 through December 31, 2013. These prices are subject to change at any time.
IN-PAGE BANNER ADVERTISING
Location
Typical Impressions*CPM** Rate

Home Rectangle (Home Target)
Size: (300x250 – 85KB max)
Up to 15,000 per day
$9.00

Article Rectangle (Article Target)
Up to 8,000 per day
$6.00
Size: (300x250 – 85KB max)

Skyscraper (Run of Site)
Up to 80,000 per day
$4.00
Size: (160x600 – 85KB max)

Forum Rectagle (Forums Target)
Up to 20,000 per day
$1.50
Size: (300x250 – 85KB max)

Leaderboard Banner
Up to 50,000 per day
$2.40
Size: (728x90 – 85KB max)

Forum Square
Up to 60,000 per day
$1.20
Size: (200x200 – 85KB max)

Mobile Site Leaderboard
Up to 5,000 per day
$2.00
Size: (320x50 – 40KB max)

* This is generally the largest amount of impressions we can run daily. These figures can be increased under certain circumstances and with enough advance booking subject to our availability.
**CPM

Not exactly sure what these mean? Someone with more expertise than me could explain this perhaps? What would the minimum size run for a day or 2?

[dwturducken]

Actually, that's pretty helpful. And, in more than one instance, doable by an individual. :)

[Ironwolf]

So what do you think of Statesman pointing out saying NCSoft,Call me maybe?

We could even link the banner to a youtube video playing the Carly Jepsen song?

[Captain Electric]

So what do you think of Statesman pointing out saying NCSoft,Call me maybe?

We could even link the banner to a youtube video playing the Carly Jepsen song?

Would have been funny and cool six months ago--and the Internet would be quick to point this out to us.

[Ironwolf]

Man kids these days.........

[Captain Electric]

If Tony handles the money I'll chip in.

Man kids these days.........

;D

[JaguarX]

If its set up in a safe manner for money transaction I'll put in too.

[JaguarX]

Yeah and I won't pretend I'm willing or even able to manage something like that, just brainstorming. I've got two small kids, a full time job and a small business I run on the side...pretty sure wife would kill me if I try to "entrepreneur" anything else, lol.

However, if someone were able to manage something like that, I think it could be immensely powerful IF we knew a buyer was waiting. For example: if we talk to Jack and find out that, even unofficially, he and Cryptic were open to the idea of buying CoH, THEN we start a big campaign to get the word out. If we don't know of a real buyer ready to buy CoH...then there's really no point in advertising.

Yeah, the few people I know that could single handedly buy COX dont seem to have an interest in buying it. Outside of here, I've been putting in a lot of leg work to prod around and see if anyone is interested or the know of someone interested in this type of business. Only one out of the dozen with signifcant finances is actually a share holder of NCSoft stock. Trying to get him to bring it up to NCSoft at the next stock holder meeting or something. But he needs facts to go on, according to him. So far, concrete is that closed the game and did not sell the IP. Need more concrete reliable evidence of it being a bad move or concrete proof  that they might have fibbed, more than usual businesses their sheets.

And the one that was an ex-COX player is still a bit bitter. I cant bring up COX and community without her getting pissed. I'm like calm down cowgirl, that was in the past. You can be a hero for these people. I'm running out of angles. And this is out of character for me, but I might need some ideas of how to present it where it's not about her but about something bigger in a neutral manner. Her husband is genius at making business proposals and when his company is trying to buy something and it seems the seller isnt budging they send him and most of the time he come back with the paperwork ready to sell, he collects his cut and everyone is happy. He might be willing to do this one for free asa favor to a friend. But she is the gate keeper and guarding that gate as viciously as Cerebrus.

Sometimes I feel like I'm failing.

[Mistress Urd]

JaguarX: Well here is the problem, it would be a very risky investment. The game itself was going to need to be redone from the ground up. Frankly, they did a pretty amazing job keeping what they had running as well as it did. The problem was, the game was not generating new players fast enough to replace players who were leaving, thus the game was "slowly bleeding to death". So, lets say someone were to hypothetically buy the IP from NCSoft and get the game restarted. Let's leave all of the issues of transitions asside..... How is the game going to grow and be healthy? Many players have already moved on to other games, it might not be so easy to some of them to come back. If the answer is CoH2, that's is going to take some big bucks and possibly 3 years before it can go live. Then you have two problems, getting CoH people to move to CoH2 and getting new players to come to CoH2. Even if you can shorten the go live with CoH2 to 2 years, that is still a long time in the MMO world. Markets and player tastes can change quite a bit.

[JaguarX]

JaguarX: Well here is the problem, it would be a very risky investment. The game itself was going to need to be redone from the ground up. Frankly, they did a pretty amazing job keeping what they had running as well as it did. The problem was, the game was not generating new players fast enough to replace players who were leaving, thus the game was "slowly bleeding to death". So, lets say someone were to hypothetically buy the IP from NCSoft and get the game restarted. Let's leave all of the issues of transitions asside..... How is the game going to grow and be healthy? Many players have already moved on to other games, it might not be so easy to some of them to come back. If the answer is CoH2, that's is going to take some big bucks and possibly 3 years before it can go live. Then you have two problems, getting CoH people to move to CoH2 and getting new players to come to CoH2. Even if you can shorten the go live with CoH2 to 2 years, that is still a long time in the MMO world. Markets and player tastes can change quite a bit.

Yeah that is exactly what I said in my pitch and a couple said it would be risky. Probably the reason of lack of interest even though they have up front money. They are probably thinking about long term investment. But the main obstacle I have is that I have no concrete numbers to show how well or less well they was doing. These are not the type of people that go by rumors.

But the main focus is trying with "the gate" keeper. She can be a major asset especially for the two projects , if she chose to. Whether money I mean a large amount of money is needed, or business expertise of her husband but her husband isn't a game player and won't budge unless its something she wants to do. While I have a nice sized chunk of change laying around what they can do makes mine look like couch change. And her husband knows about marketing to boot. But unless she gibes thumbs up he might as well be the king of Foligua Island.

[Tannim222]

JaguarX: Well here is the problem, it would be a very risky investment. The game itself was going to need to be redone from the ground up. Frankly, they did a pretty amazing job keeping what they had running as well as it did. The problem was, the game was not generating new players fast enough to replace players who were leaving, thus the game was "slowly bleeding to death". So, lets say someone were to hypothetically buy the IP from NCSoft and get the game restarted. Let's leave all of the issues of transitions asside..... How is the game going to grow and be healthy? Many players have already moved on to other games, it might not be so easy to some of them to come back. If the answer is CoH2, that's is going to take some big bucks and possibly 3 years before it can go live. Then you have two problems, getting CoH people to move to CoH2 and getting new players to come to CoH2. Even if you can shorten the go live with CoH2 to 2 years, that is still a long time in the MMO world. Markets and player tastes can change quite a bit.

First, do you have any proof about the game bleeding bleeding to death? There's plenty of reason to believe the cash shop purchases weren't showing up in the financial reports directly under coh heading. One injustry insider has gone public (his name and reputation type of public) on other boards discussing this quite clearly. If anything, cityof was making money and it was Paragon Studios as a whole which was burning through any profit margin coh was making.

The only reason I'd believe that the game would need to be built from the ground up is purely due to all the old, messy, undocumented code if there's no one around who has worked on it previously to help get the game running as is. I'd bet just announcing Cityof returing to active servers would get the attention of pretty much every gaming site on the net and garner a lot of attention from players both old and new just to see what the fuss was about. Getting it live with all the goodness in i24 would be a wonderful starting point for the rebirth of the game. i24 had more than just new stuff for players to do, and fixes for many things, but also added systems for the devs to use that would allow them to do things that were previously impossible.

Think of it as starting a new MMO but with 8 years of active lore, play, memories, and content and there's a good chance with slow, continual development added as the game makes money, that within 2 years from rebirth, it'd be a thriving MMO, not one just starting off.

[Rejuvenatrix]

I see Quinch and Captain-Electric posted a couple of really good comments right at the top.  I wish Carbine Studios all the best, I really do.  I just hope that they're able to get away from NCsoft before NCsoft is able to kill off Wildstar.

I agree. I was really looking forward to playing Wildstar, but so long as NCSoft has control of it, I won't touch it.  I want to scream every time I get an email about joining the beta.

[johnrobey]

Until or unless NCSoft is under completely new management or can give really GOOD and compelling reasons to think that they have changed their corporate business practices I am DONE with them as a business and don't intend to give them another dollar or even the time of day (beyond basic human decency.)  The ONLY hook they have that could get me to do business with them again would be for them to reinstate and "unshutter" CoH--something which I feel they are unlikely to do--thus I don't have to worry overly much about being forced to do business with a corporate entity I once liked and admired and now despise for having personally burned me as well as our entire Community of (over-generalizing now) Most Excellent Gamers!  CoH players are the best!!!  The way we helped each other in-game is unlike anything I've seen or even heard other MMO communities being able to brag about.  (Probably this is just my ignorance talking and some of you will know equally fine MMORPG communities - and if so, feel free to post about them since that is likely the MMORPG I'd next be most inclined to try.)  But until I can fly my avatars above the skies of Paragon City, the Isles and Praetoria, personally I am done with MMORPGaming.  [You can think of me if you like as sitting by the door at NCSoft in half-lotus meditating, since in this case even waiting at the door can be a meditation, while I chant my Tibetan Buddhist Aum-Aum's.]

P.S. I don't disparage my CoH friends who are now playing GW2--they miss CoH just as much as I and tell me how GW2 isn't nearly as good but how they are trying to have fun and recreate the magic.  We each cope in our own way.  For me, that means getting back to reading Science Fiction and Fantasy novels and tabletop boardgaming rather than MMORPG via computer.

PPS.  I would like to say Thank-You once again to Tony V., to the forum moderators, as well as the entire Titan Network forum community of CoH fans.  You've made not only going thru this so much easier, I feel that in addition to my formerly active in-game SG mates I have also been fortunate in finding some true online friends here on Titan.  You all ROCK!!!!!!    8)

[Rotten Luck]

If we can get the IP we can inject it into the Plan Z: The Phoenix Project.  Making it an official sequel rather then just a spiritual superuser.  So it can a CoX2 can go ahead in the mean time we can operate CoX1.  Even keep both going.

I know for me a big part of a game is LORE.  CoX has more then most with over 8 years worth of growth, that 8 years of content and concept art already done.

[Mistress Urd]

First, do you have any proof about the game bleeding bleeding to death? There's plenty of reason to believe the cash shop purchases weren't showing up in the financial reports directly under coh heading. One injustry insider has gone public (his name and reputation type of public) on other boards discussing this quite clearly. If anything, cityof was making money and it was Paragon Studios as a whole which was burning through any profit margin coh was making.

The only reason I'd believe that the game would need to be built from the ground up is purely due to all the old, messy, undocumented code if there's no one around who has worked on it previously to help get the game running as is. I'd bet just announcing Cityof returing to active servers would get the attention of pretty much every gaming site on the net and garner a lot of attention from players both old and new just to see what the fuss was about. Getting it live with all the goodness in i24 would be a wonderful starting point for the rebirth of the game. i24 had more than just new stuff for players to do, and fixes for many things, but also added systems for the devs to use that would allow them to do things that were previously impossible.

Think of it as starting a new MMO but with 8 years of active lore, play, memories, and content and there's a good chance with slow, continual development added as the game makes money, that within 2 years from rebirth, it'd be a thriving MMO, not one just starting off.

The proof happend when the servers went dark.  :P

CoH in the financial records was clearly on its way down except for the Going Rogue bump. Like most MMO games online numbers are a secret and they kept making it harder to see the exact number. Long time players can tell you about server pop levels back in the good old days.

Hey, I'd love to have CoH back up and running, I got to see how much the MMO games now have better graphics but worse gameplay. I played some of the competition a couple of time because friends wanted to play it. After a couple of serious awful experiences I stopped. I just watch them MMO game hop every 2 months chasing the next "great" MMO. When CoH closed, I tried a few other games and yep, they haven't learned anything.

So for now, I am playing older games. Diablo 2 which is really old but is still a blast to play and Eve Online another old game but probably the furthest thing from CoH. Until this "Free to Play" fad goes away I don't expect things to get any better and since the next crop of MMOs will be designed from the ground up to be Free to Play I can be pretty sure they will suck. At least I can test them for free to make sure.  :P

[Cobra Man]

The proof happend when the servers went dark.  :P

Unfortunately I don't think this was the case.

Numbers and figures were indeed kept out of sight but if the game was bleeding to death don't you think that NCsoft would have released the figures to prove that?

Indications are that the game was probably still making a profit - albeit a small profit.

The most damning indictment about this whole thing is that CoH carried on - in profit - with zero advertising or marketing.

I can only imagine how things might have went if the game had been handled with even the smallest amount of business sense.

[Kistulot]

The proof happend when the servers went dark.  :P

There are two reasons servers go black that I have personally seen happen... Because of profit margins, which as has been said again and again, there is no proof that this was the case, aaaand...

The company wanting people to pay money elsewhere.

Friends of mine have worked support for XBL(XCubeUndead), and people have called to get their XBL working so they can play a sealed game... bought brand new... thats servers have been turned off.

Unless you can prove to me this didn't happen, I see a heck of a lot more proof (with new offerings having just been released, and more in the pipeline for NCSoft) that this is true than profits. Not to be mean or anything, just sayin' if you come up with an idea the burden of proof is on you when its something like this, especially when its been said a hundred times people within Paragon Studios were quite convinced everything was goin' well.

[Segev]

To be fair, there is evidence that NCSoft was looking at profitability falling and decided to cut out sooner rather than later. That doesn't change the fact that they made no real effort to improve its visibility to change that falling profitability, nor does it invalidate the concern that perhaps somebody doctored (legitimately, through accounting tricks that are deceitful only because they're performed without elaboration) their books to make those numbers look that way for some other purpose of their own, but it would mean that those who didn't know why the numbers looked as they did could make the decision reasonably.

Not saying it's the case, but it's the most charitable case I can think of.

[SeaLily]

I'm still, personally, convinced that NCsoft isn't going to sell- they're trying to devalue themselves without looking like they're doing it, so Nexon can swoop in and gobble them up for cheap.  And then once Nexon is in charge, they can value CoH properly, maybe sell it off, maybe bring it back, maybe sequalize it, whatever they might do.  But right now NCsoft just wants to be worth less.  Getting a $5-10 mil injection from selling that IP could work against that.

But this is just me speculating, I don't know anything and I'm probably crazy, so.

[Tannim222]

The proof happend when the servers went dark.  :P

CoH in the financial records was clearly on its way down except for the Going Rogue bump. Like most MMO games online numbers are a secret and they kept making it harder to see the exact number. Long time players can tell you about server pop levels back in the good old days.

Hey, I'd love to have CoH back up and running, I got to see how much the MMO games now have better graphics but worse gameplay. I played some of the competition a couple of time because friends wanted to play it. After a couple of serious awful experiences I stopped. I just watch them MMO game hop every 2 months chasing the next "great" MMO. When CoH closed, I tried a few other games and yep, they haven't learned anything.

So for now, I am playing older games. Diablo 2 which is really old but is still a blast to play and Eve Online another old game but probably the furthest thing from CoH. Until this "Free to Play" fad goes away I don't expect things to get any better and since the next crop of MMOs will be designed from the ground up to be Free to Play I can be pretty sure they will suck. At least I can test them for free to make sure.  :P

The thing is though, both War Witch and Positron have publically stated the game was doing very well, paticularly after going free to play. Then looking at how they were supporting the game through development and future planning, doesn't jive with the idea that the game was bleeding players, nor does it match up with the "official" financial records.

While I'm not quite convinced there was doctoring of the finances put into the records (though it wouldn't suprise me, I've seen it happen in 2 of the 3 multi-million dollar companies I worked for, one of them operating in the hundreds of millions), I'd be more understanding if it were said the game was profitable, but the studio wasn't. That I can see happening, with the devs seeing CoH's revenue, but not necessarily the operating costs of the entire studio.

Also, on several websites, when a game industry analyst publically puts their name and reputation out there and states all of his research into the closure doesn't add up that the game was indeed turning a suitable profit, then something is up.

So yes, in the end the servers went dark, but not for the reason's many people think, the subject is profit, but not necessarily the lack thereof. It could be VPs no longer thought the game was going to hit its target numbers, but never bothered to associate that issue with the nearly $0 marketing dollars Black Pebble had to work with to promote the game with. It could be NCSoft leadership decided it only wanted to focus on games with "more potential profit", and anything beneath whatever benchmark they had is being cut. When looking at the entire MMO industry, CoH apparently was still successful game, but not necessarily in the areas of the industry NCSoft wants to be in.

I'm ok with any of those reasons. But claims that the game was bleeding players and such just don't sit well with me when talking about the game prior to the notice of shut down, and it's not the rose colored glasses that I'm wearing either.