Author Topic: Being heard  (Read 24217 times)

Rae

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Being heard
« on: March 27, 2013, 02:15:11 PM »
Not entirely sure I put this in the right place, but we'll see if it gets moved.

I saw this today:

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/16193/20130326/wildstar-mmo-gameplay-preview-player-housing-revealed.htm

My favourite line:

"Of course, following last year's high-profile shuttering of "City of Heroes", the involvement of NCSoft seems to be invoking almost as much fear of abandonment as it is hope for commercial success on/after the "WildStar" release date."

We ARE being heard. Keep shouting.
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NecrotechMaster

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2013, 02:59:51 PM »
i thought that was a nice little tidbit that they added on, definitely seemed as a shout-out to our efforts

JetFlash

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2013, 05:56:35 PM »
The involvement of NCSoft is what is keeping me away.  WildStar looks like it could be a lot of fun, but I simply cannot trust NCSoft.

It is the callous treatment of Paragon Studios and the players that has made up my mind.

It's not about fear of abandonment; it's about NCSoft taking the ball and going home because they don't want to play anymore.

TonyV

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2013, 06:01:37 PM »
I see Quinch and Captain-Electric posted a couple of really good comments right at the top.  I wish Carbine Studios all the best, I really do.  I just hope that they're able to get away from NCsoft before NCsoft is able to kill off Wildstar.

LadyVamp

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2013, 11:19:01 PM »
Keep the pressure on them.  The know their handling of our community was way too heavy handed.  Who am I kidding here.  Just plain wrong.  As an active player in one of their other mmos, I can tell you they are quite aware and quite concerned about what the players are saying as the latest licensing agreement suggests.  If you're curious, check out the latest one for gw2.  It was published last night.
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JanessaVR

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2013, 11:22:38 PM »
Keep the pressure on them.  The know their handling of our community was way too heavy handed.  Who am I kidding here.  Just plain wrong.  As an active player in one of their other mmos, I can tell you they are quite aware and quite concerned about what the players are saying as the latest licensing agreement suggests.  If you're curious, check out the latest one for gw2.  It was published last night.
If they think this publicity is fun, wait until we have either a working legal community server that doesn't use their IP or one of the Plan Z's comes out and we get publicity over those.  Then the real fun will begin.  :)

Cobra Man

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2013, 12:22:02 AM »
I've left my comments on that site as well.

Anything to help the cause ....  ;)

Ironwolf

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2013, 10:32:31 AM »
Left a comment and here is the latest Guild wars 2 licensing agreement:

http://guildwars2.pl/guild_wars_2_eula,a643

Yes, they want to stop all reverse engineering. Too late! This new agreement basically shows CoH is wide open.

Mister Bison

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2013, 10:56:32 AM »
Yes, they want to stop all reverse engineering. Too late! This new agreement basically shows CoH is wide open.
Not to put more fuel under the dead horse-"reverse engineering" hot air baloon, but since the only thing that prevented us from reverse-engineering the game was CoH's EULA, which was arguably unenforceable before (since they would need to prove you, and only you clicked on the "I agree" button), but is no more enforceable now since the service is terminated, can't we legally reverse-engineer it now ? Or was there a "even in the event of closure of the service, whatever the cause" clause to the "Please don't RE" term ?
Yeeessss....

Ironwolf

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2013, 01:26:16 PM »
The new agreement is worded to stop people from creating their own servers.

Now the fun thing is Lineage 2 has tons of unofficial servers and might afford us a toe hold on building a CoH one. If they allow Lineage 2 servers to exist outside of the realms of Officialdom, then CoH is simply upholding a tradition started by Lineage 2.

If you do a simple Google/Dogpile/Bing on Lineage 2 private servers, you will find literally HUNDREDS of unofficial servers for Lineage. I am beginning to think we are foolishly far too worried that NCSoft will even care if we have a CoH server.


JaguarX

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2013, 03:43:40 PM »
The new agreement is worded to stop people from creating their own servers.

Now the fun thing is Lineage 2 has tons of unofficial servers and might afford us a toe hold on building a CoH one. If they allow Lineage 2 servers to exist outside of the realms of Officialdom, then CoH is simply upholding a tradition started by Lineage 2.

If you do a simple Google/Dogpile/Bing on Lineage 2 private servers, you will find literally HUNDREDS of unofficial servers for Lineage. I am beginning to think we are foolishly far too worried that NCSoft will even care if we have a CoH server.
Yeah but don't think the lineage people antagonized them like post coh  people rightfully so or not
But also there have been cases that ncsoft have attacked and had private servers shutdown. They might they might not but as long as its kept quiet and not trying to rub their nose in it will probably be beneath their notice
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 03:51:50 PM by JaguarX »

Xieveral

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2013, 08:39:16 PM »
Yeah but don't think the lineage people antagonized them like post coh  people rightfully so or not
But also there have been cases that ncsoft have attacked and had private servers shutdown. They might they might not but as long as its kept quiet and not trying to rub their nose in it will probably be beneath their notice

Lineage 2 is still going, so there's not going to be any hostility of that magnitude. Perhaps if it were marked for shutdown out of the blue, things would get ugly. but being that NCSoft is both developer and publisher and the Lineage franchise is their foundation,  that's highly unlikely.

I still feel NCSoft was vigilant on cutting down private servers for Tabula Rasa because they were bitter about the Garriott incidents and the resulting negative media attention. I would expect just as much for CoH.

Exteel supposedly has functional private servers and people are trying to develop private servers for Dungeon Runners and Auto Assault. I don't know how closure of those games was taken but I'm assuming they weren't as vocal of defiant as TR and CoH players so they've been able to stay under the radar.

I wonder if there are still surviving private servers for Tabula Rasa. It could be possible that there's a guy that knows a guy that knows a guy but unfortunately I know no guys ><. But if anyone does know a guy... drop me a line?
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Noyjitat

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2013, 09:17:00 PM »
Lineage 2 is still going, so there's not going to be any hostility of that magnitude. Perhaps if it were marked for shutdown out of the blue, things would get ugly. but being that NCSoft is both developer and publisher and the Lineage franchise is their foundation,  that's highly unlikely.

I still feel NCSoft was vigilant on cutting down private servers for Tabula Rasa because they were bitter about the Garriott incidents and the resulting negative media attention. I would expect just as much for CoH.

Exteel supposedly has functional private servers and people are trying to develop private servers for Dungeon Runners and Auto Assault. I don't know how closure of those games was taken but I'm assuming they weren't as vocal of defiant as TR and CoH players so they've been able to stay under the radar.

I wonder if there are still surviving private servers for Tabula Rasa. It could be possible that there's a guy that knows a guy that knows a guy but unfortunately I know no guys ><. But if anyone does know a guy... drop me a line?

I didn't try the game although I had thought about it and then the game was suddenly being shut down. I guess now I'm happy I didn't because I'd probably be just as sad for losing it too. If a private server does exist now though, I wouldn't mind the opportunity to play.

Whyaylooh

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2013, 12:33:35 AM »
Exteel supposedly has functional private servers and people are trying to develop private servers for Dungeon Runners and Auto Assault. I don't know how closure of those games was taken but I'm assuming they weren't as vocal of defiant as TR and CoH players so they've been able to stay under the radar.
Speaking for myself, there was some serious annoyance when Auto Assault was canned, but, at the same time, it was pretty much expected.

The whole thing was mismanaged, at least all the way back to the closed beta (when I got involved).  This could have been due to NetDevil having to deal with NCSoft, creating the perception of an MPD-like management atmosphere.  What ever the case, between that, and some of the boneheaded things I experienced in the early CoH days -- for example, receiving my invite to the beta ONE DAY before it closed; that bugged the heck out of me -- my confidence wasn't that great that the game would take off to begin with.  So, when the plug was pulled just a little over a year after it was released, I was irritated, but not surprised.

All of this, plus the ridiculous email fiasco ("We're closing your game, but we like your money, so please try these other ones we publish instead!"), made me re-think any involvement with NCSoft-published games.  Yes, I even gave up on City of Heroes, briefly.  That most of my friends were still on it brought me back, though, and, yeah, I missed it.  Plus, I'd put a lot of work into my characters, and that proved just too much to walk away from.  I was already invested.

I can now safely say that I will never invest time, money or energy into an NCSoft product again.  This isn't out of some protest, boycott, or dangling a carrot that they might get my piddly $160-some a year back if they bring my games back.  This is because, when you're burned enough times by a business, you realize that this isn't a fluke or a bad break, but a repeating pattern, and a normal business practice for them.  You realize they just aren't worth doing business with, and just stop doing business with them.

So, back to your original point, no, the protests were nowhere near this big nor vocal when Auto Assault was shut down.  But it certainly does make the more recent events affect one's decision-making all the more deeply.   And it makes me all the more glad to hear these acknowledgements of "caveat emptor" when discussing the latest shiny new thing NCSoft dangles in front of everyone, with hopes that their memory spans are short.  Losing the work I put into Auto Assault was aggravating; losing everything I put into City of Heroes was downright brutal.  Anyone who puts that kind of energy into a game needs to know that NCSoft doesn't cater to them.  Their way of going business has proven that.

Apologies for rambling.  Long time lurker, finally posting.  Guess I needed to air my brain out a bit, and mentioning Auto Assault's closure sort of opened it all up.  Carry on. :)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 01:16:13 AM by Whyaylooh »

Captain Electric

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2013, 02:59:42 AM »
Whyaylooh, you're in good company and that was well-said.

You know, if I'd come across someone who was boycotting NCSoft during the time I was a City of Heroes player, I'd have probably put up some kind of defense for NCSoft. That just popped into my head when reading your post. (And I'm typing it out without really examining what it says or means; not in the mood to think about it.)

Regardless of what it means, though; once a customer has been screwed, and if they dive back in and get invested, you know...that's all on them. I know some former CoHers who are doing that. But what do you say? Nothing. This is the kind of thing you can't teach people if they won't learn. Be a friend and listen to them gripe when it happens to them again.

Illusionss

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2013, 04:53:27 PM »
Well, one thing about Auto Assault was that IIRC, the game was not that old when it was shut down. People had not had the time to get deeply invested in the game's world, so the shut down was less brutal.

Now us, we had time to get all comfy and secure in the knowledge that CoX would continue for a long time into the future. HAHA joke was on us!

I find digitaltime's caveat regarding NCSoft very amusing. I bet NCStupid finds it a lot less so. BOO. HOO. HOO.

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Jaguar: Yeah but don't think the lineage people antagonized them like post coh  people rightfully so or not
But also there have been cases that ncsoft have attacked and had private servers shutdown. They might they might not but as long as its kept quiet and not trying to rub their nose in it will probably be beneath their notice

The fact is that no one knows what they will do, until after the fact. I'd think they have far larger fish to fry, like cracking the inscrutible Chinese market and doing something - anything - to try to stabilize their flailing stock prices. But maybe they will devote everything to shutting an emulator down! That'll be great, they should do that. It would add yet more LUSTRE to their shining reputations as a friendly organization whose sole mission is to spread happiness around the globe. /endsarcasm

A problem for them will be FINDING the emu in the first place, I'd think.

JaguarX

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2013, 08:04:30 PM »
The fact is that no one knows what they will do, until after the fact.
A problem for them will be FINDING the emu in the first place, I'd think.
basically.

Cobra Man

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2013, 03:38:55 PM »
It looks like the comments section has attracted some objections.

I seem to recall a board member called JustMe, but I'm not sure.

eabrace

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2013, 04:11:50 PM »
Cult mentality?  I guess I missed that memo while Agge and I were chasing the anti-NCsoft posts out of the Wildstar and GW2 threads.
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Cobra Man

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Re: Being heard
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2013, 04:30:22 PM »
Cult mentality?  I guess I missed that memo while Agge and I were chasing the anti-NCsoft posts out of the Wildstar and GW2 threads.

That was my thoughts.

I was one of the anti-GW2 posters, but I've mellowed :)