Being heard

[JanessaVR]

Yes, this "JustMe" twit is spewing a lot of bile over there.  If he's not actually a paid shill, he's an idiot with a grudge against CoH or it's players, for whatever doubtless pathetic reason.  I imagine he's probably a 14-year-old living in his parents' basement who thinks he's very hip and cool, but I'll put together a post later to debunk his ramblings.

[Ironwolf]

Why?

Allow our way of dealing with this compared to his. He rants against us and we are saying a simple thing NCSoft has no long term interest in their players. All they want is the money and that is fair enough - we are just warning players against that very fact.

[JanessaVR]

I hear you, but it galls me to allow blatant slander to just go unchallenged.  It's letting the other side make a case without making ours.  Not that the above posts before his weren't very welcome and well-stated, but we do seem to have some persistent haters here and there who keep bringing up some points that I just don't think should go unanswered and not rebutted.

[Cobra Man]

I hear you, but it galls me to allow blatant slander to just go unchallenged.  It's letting the other side make a case without making ours.  Not that the above posts before his weren't very welcome and well-stated, but we do seem to have some persistent haters here and there who keep bringing up some points that I just don't think should go unanswered and not rebutted.

Bringing yourself down to the level of people like JustMe would be counterproductive.

He or she has their own agenda here, and I don't think getting involved will benefit us in any way.

Let's just carry on trying to get CoH back up and running.

[JanessaVR]

Well, I'll grant that you have a point about not feeding trolls.  Success is ultimately the best revenge.  I'm inclined to bookmark that page, however, for when we achieve such success as I am a card-carrying Vengeful Bitch (TM).   :)

[LT. Couper]

Bringing yourself down to the level of people like JustMe would be counterproductive.

He or she has their own agenda here, and I don't think getting involved will benefit us in any way.

Let's just carry on trying to get CoH back up and running.

I agree. People like that are just like those random comments on YouTube, telling the "Tuber" to remove all of their videos within "X" amount of hours or they'll contact YouTube, and get them to do it. They're reasoning is that the videos are "against Christian values" or claiming that they negatively influence their children to the point that they can't be controlled. They're so full of it, that it's almost funny to read.

Bottom line is that they don't do any harm and it's just best if they're ignored.

[JaguarX]

I agree. People like that are just like those random comments on YouTube, telling the "Tuber" to remove all of their videos within "X" amount of hours or they'll contact YouTube, and get them to do it. They're reasoning is that the videos are "against Christian values" or claiming that they negatively influence their children to the point that they can't be controlled. They're so full of it, that it's almost funny to read.

Bottom line is that they don't do any harm and it's just best if they're ignored.

+1.

As they say we all are entitled to our opinion. They can have it. Some people feed off attention and response. If people give to them, the only one that wins is them. If they dont like COH or the players, that is fine with me and just as well for those that love COH. No amount of getting on their case or yelling at them "You're wrong!" and etc about what they think will change their mind. If anything it will only cause them to validate their belief and use it as an example of why the dislike. Especially on another website that is not here.  Plus we seen it already people will think what they think and express what they think just to express what they think.

Not to mention maybe they have a reason to be upset at COH. Maybe their experience wasnt great with the people or didnt like the game or various bad experience. Maybe sometimes it's best to either see what the underlying cause is or not and not jump to conclusions just because the evidence of why is not on the surface shining as bright as a light bulb in a dark room. Perception to the human is reality and each person have different perception. Hell, sometimes I even have to remind myself that.

[MindBlender]

I agree with Tony.  We are feeling hurt by losing our game, but PS folks are hurting and some may have or come close to losing their REAL homes.  I wish the best for carbine and Anet.  My hatred of NCSoft aside, lets hope they learned from us and wont pull the rug out from under these studios.  Too much personal  (financial) blood has been shed from their previous actions. 

[Minotaur]

I hear you, but it galls me to allow blatant slander to just go unchallenged.  It's letting the other side make a case without making ours.  Not that the above posts before his weren't very welcome and well-stated, but we do seem to have some persistent haters here and there who keep bringing up some points that I just don't think should go unanswered and not rebutted.

I believe the line is "don't wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig enjoys it".

[eabrace]

I believe the line is "don't wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig enjoys it".

Alternately: "Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig..." :)

[Captain Electric]

I couldn't resist. I have no willpower this early!

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/16193/20130326/wildstar-mmo-gameplay-preview-player-housing-revealed.htm#comment-848480549
(Give the page a few seconds to load up and it will move you down to my comment.)

I'm sticking with the shill angle because I've always suspected their use by publishers even before one of EA's was exposed and another one fessed up about their ubiquitousness in the industry. I think it's as real a possibility as it being someone like BurntToast.

Which is why I also suspect it could be BurntToast. That guy has become, like, the perfect super villain--the kind who believes in the hate and destruction he sews.

I found BurntToast quite smart and likable. But when he threw the racism blanket over our entire community, which is quite diverse, I ran out of understanding. Nevertheless, I've always wondered who all he was sending PMs to here. I feel like if you'd have done something besides completely ignore his pleas, he could have been brought into that kibun blind alley and helped keep you from looking like average American tourists...a reputation you briefly gave all of us, because that's how this sort of thing works.

Racism? No. I don't think so. And I love everyone here. But when you tried to appeal to NCSoft through some of South Korea's most sensitive cultural pressure-points...it was Tsoooo weird and awkward to watch ya'll do that. Like, 1990s weird and awkward. And there's a reason why no one ever talks about the 90s.

(It's because the 90s were really weird and awkward.)

But anyway...I don't blame him for getting upset. I DO blame him for building a crusade around what I think he knows, deep down, was just one of many (bad) ideas that got kicked around these forums at that time. And I DO blame anyone here who poked fun at him or disregarded him while simultaneously appearing to be asking for input about South Korean culture from anyone who had any facts about it. Yes he was second generation but he knew more than anyone else at that time.

A mess could have been avoided. That guy has worked his tail off for months, all over the Internet, to color this community in a very dark fashion.

[Illusionss]

Eh, he's one guy. We have bigger fish to fry.

Over-sensitivity is a big problem, and it wont serve him well in life. If someone was on a message board going off about how my ancestors the Vikings are still a baby-pillaging, coastline-ravaging, church-burning, boat-rowin', battleaxe-wielding bunch of Eurotrash rapists, I would not go on an internet rampage lasting months about it. I'd just give 'em the side-eye, laugh and go about my business. That level of sensitivity strikes me as almost unbalanced.

This is the Internet. Be ready to roll with the punches. Besides, I dont see a groundswell of support for him, I see one lone guy boo-hooing in a comment section. He's dismissable.

[JaguarX]

I couldn't resist. I have no willpower this early!

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/16193/20130326/wildstar-mmo-gameplay-preview-player-housing-revealed.htm#comment-848480549
(Give the page a few seconds to load up and it will move you down to my comment.)

I'm sticking with the shill angle because I've always suspected their use by publishers even before one of EA's was exposed and another one fessed up about their ubiquitousness in the industry. I think it's as real a possibility as it being someone like BurntToast.

Which is why I also suspect it could be BurntToast. That guy has become, like, the perfect super villain--the kind who believes in the hate and destruction he sews.

I found BurntToast quite smart and likable. But when he threw the racism blanket over our entire community, which is quite diverse, I ran out of understanding. Nevertheless, I've always wondered who all he was sending PMs to here. I feel like if you'd have done something besides completely ignore his pleas, he could have been brought into that kibun blind alley and helped keep you from looking like average American tourists...a reputation you briefly gave all of us, because that's how this sort of thing works.

Racism? No. I don't think so. And I love everyone here. But when you tried to appeal to NCSoft through some of South Korea's most sensitive cultural pressure-points...it was Tsoooo weird and awkward to watch ya'll do that. Like, 1990s weird and awkward. And there's a reason why no one ever talks about the 90s.

(It's because the 90s were really weird and awkward.)

But anyway...I don't blame him for getting upset. I DO blame him for building a crusade around what I think he knows, deep down, was just one of many (bad) ideas that got kicked around these forums at that time. And I DO blame anyone here who poked fun at him or disregarded him while simultaneously appearing to be asking for input about South Korean culture from anyone who had any facts about it. Yes he was second generation but he knew more than anyone else at that time.

A mess could have been avoided. That guy has worked his tail off for months, all over the Internet, to color this community in a very dark fashion.

I dont know. The way the comment look, it could be any one of the people that stormed off or never been here in the first place.

I seen more than a couple of people say stuff like this.

But I think it's correct as stated i na few above comments that I dont think there is a big anti-titan following.


There is a saying that if you dont have any haters that means you are doing somethign terriblely wrong. Everything great have it's detractors. Microsoft, there are some people that rant all day and night about Mr. Gates being Illuminati and the anti-christ and etc, same for Steve Jobs (RIP his soul), just about every MMO game and company out there, Facebook, Myspace, life in general, rich people poor people, politicians, religious people, non-religious people, BMW drivers, Chevy drivers, Porche drivers, Yaris drivers, Hummer drivers, Captain Electric. They all have their group of people that hate on them. It means they are doing something proper.

While at least since I been here, a few people abandoned ship, I dont see a mass movement or unless I'm wrong about that and correct me. A few people left, yes, but that is normal. Some people left angry, some people left due to lack of time, and some people left after losing hope while others just left because they could. It's the nature of the beast. And there is nobetter place to rant and rave and acta plum fool than the internet. No one knows who you are and you can be dozen of people at the same time. Maybe it's Toast maybe not, but unless he changed modus operandi, which is very possible, he usually use some variation of Toast something, which even then there is no gurantee it's him. I still believe in innocent until proven guilty even on the internet.


What we need to do is to find a way to get 8 more haters by June. But in the end, let them hate. That is their job. Let the haters do their job. It's free advertising especially when they rant and rave because coming off as a raving lunatic regardless of how valid the point, kills the point on the internet these days and people probably will come here to either see if the raving madman is right or to gather evidence that the madman is wrong and use it against him. Although thank goodness all that racial(culture ignorance or what ever title is assigned) stuff been dealt with swiftly. There have been some cases where even I got a little nervous. But I dont think it defines the entire community as a whole but on the flip side, I seen that same logic when applied ot other games. Like WoW, known as griefer city and an unfriendly place when majority of the community are no such thing and those are due the actions of the relative few. I aint perfect either on that front either and try my damn hardest to understand that and look at it from that point of view. We dont want negative generalizations made about us so I try not to do it to other things.

On a side note, I aint going to lie about my perception. In the beginning there seemed to be a few people that had that "with us or against us" mentality here but more so from both sides on the old forum but I think it died down a bit and basically ceased once things got clear. But that being the image of the entire community? Come on man, no.

[Mistress Urd]

Cult mentality?  I guess I missed that memo while Agge and I were chasing the anti-NCsoft posts out of the Wildstar and GW2 threads.

Actually, I thought you handled it well.

[Taceus Jiwede]

Yes, this "JustMe" twit is spewing a lot of bile over there.  If he's not actually a paid shill, he's an idiot with a grudge against CoH or it's players, for whatever doubtless pathetic reason.  I imagine he's probably a 14-year-old living in his parents' basement who thinks he's very hip and cool, but I'll put together a post later to debunk his ramblings.

This would be extremelly counter productive.  I know you have decided against it already but replying to his post just makes us look worse.  I hate to say it Captain Electric, but all you did prove his point.  We aren't a cult mentality but one of the biggest anti-Titan things I have heard is "If you say anything they don't agree with then you are a unicorn" in which case one person from a our community speaking for them self not as a whole goes out and calls them a unicorn.  JustMe isn't some 14 year old in his basment that is exactly what he was talking about, that sometimes we can just cover ears and go LALALALA when people try to point out our flaws, which everyone has.  The best thing to do is ignore him, or better yet.  Listen to him.  If 1000 people keep saying the same thing there is likely some truth in it and by accepting that we may actually be doing that, we can start fixing it.  We need as many people as we can get.  I love the CohTitan Community.  It is a beautiful group of hardworking, honest people that achieve things like moving people across the country.  But the truth remains, I have seen this "With us or a unicorn" attitude in other places on the web being linked to CoHTitan

But I think it's correct as stated i na few above comments that I dont think there is a big anti-titan following.

You would be rather shocked at how big it is actually.  The difference is that we are organized with a goal, they are just a group of people that are tired of hearing and seeing us.
The entire group of people I started the game with 8 years at launch.  Can't stand CoHtitan.  I have friends in real life who I tried directing to this site for support, they weren't impressed.  The entire SG and global channel I was on in CoH ranging from about 150-200 people all are anti-Titan.  And they aren't trolls or paid bashers by NCSoft.  Their compliant is the same as everyone else's.  Clearly I don't agree with them or I wouldn't be here.  But they are out there.  I do my best to tell them that the opinions of a few on the site don't express the entire goal of Titan but it makes no difference.

P.S. Before I become the "unicorn" keep in mind that is excatly what people are talking about.  I just point this out because I think it is a rather easy fix.  The first two comments on that page were great.  No fuss or muss, just the facts that NCSoft is a bad publisher.  But, Captain Electric.  Your post was never deleted.  It was just moved for some strange reason.  So NCSoft is not paying them to remove comments. 

[JanessaVR]

This would be extremelly counter productive.  I know you have decided against it already but replying to his post just makes us look worse.  I hate to say it Captain Electric, but all you did prove his point.  We aren't a cult mentality but one of the biggest anti-Titan things I have heard is "If you say anything they don't agree with then you are a unicorn" in which case one person from a our community speaking for them self not as a whole goes out and calls them a unicorn.  JustMe isn't some 14 year old in his basment that is exactly what he was talking about, that sometimes we can just cover ears and go LALALALA when people try to point out our flaws, which everyone has.  The best thing to do is ignore him, or better yet.  Listen to him.  If 1000 people keep saying the same thing there is likely some truth in it and by accepting that we may actually be doing that, we can start fixing it.  We need as many people as we can get.  I love the CohTitan Community.  It is a beautiful group of hardworking, honest people that achieve things like moving people across the country.  But the truth remains, I have seen this "With us or a unicorn" attitude in other places on the web being linked to CoHTitan.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.  He didn't say anything I thought worth listening to - there was nothing I would call constructive in his post, just "I'm totally fine with the way NCSoft handled CoH and treated its players, I'm giving them more money, and you guys suck!"  So, no, I'm not going to listen to that.  However, Cobra Man, Dylan Clearbrook and Captain-Electric have handled the situation to my satisfaction, so my bothering to rebut his posts is unnecessary.

[Taceus Jiwede]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.  He didn't say anything I thought worth listening to - there was nothing I would call constructive in his post, just "I'm totally fine with the way NCSoft handled CoH and treated its players, I'm giving them more money, and you guys suck!"  So, no, I'm not going to listen to that.  However, Cobra Man, Dylan Clearbrook and Captain-Electric have handled the situation to my satisfaction, so my bothering to rebut his posts is unnecessary.

I agree he took very lightly for a person who played CoH for 8 years.  Most of his post wasn't all the constructive.  But I am not speaking of just his post this time.  I was more so speaking about how he said something we didn't agree with, and we felt it was necessary to get back on and tell him how wrong he is when in reality its not a "right or wrong" situation.  I am not saying we should take his "NCsoft is peachy" approach.  I am saying we can't tell him he is wrong for thinking that him self.  If he wants to support a publisher that will screw him then he can, not everyone considers NCSoft to be the devil and CoH to be god.  Some people just flat don't care and we have to accept that.  We can't tell them they are wrong and to get on the NCSoft hate train.

I know apathy is just as bad, but we honestly can not change their minds.  There is no reason to try it just makes us look bad and like we will fight anyone who says something we don't completely agree with.  I think its a good idea to keep posting that NCSoft is a bad publisher.  But if someone starts disagreeing then there is no reason to fight them over it.  I just know when a lot have people have come to me personally in life and say "You always do this and bothers me and other people"  I dont accuse them of being a unicorn.  I think "Maybe they are on to something" and do some soul searching to resolve this issue.  Everyone and everything has their flaws, the greatest flaw of all though is not accepting this and working to improve them.  CoHTitan is great and I am not saying it is completely flawed or anything like that.  But I have seen the mentality people speak of on other websites.  If you tell a person they are wrong, they will do everything in their power to prove they are right.  Even if they don't completely agree with what they are saying, people will take on new opinions even just out of spite for the person who told them they were wrong.

[JaguarX]

This would be extremelly counter productive.  I know you have decided against it already but replying to his post just makes us look worse.  I hate to say it Captain Elect:ric, but all you did prove his point.  We aren't a cult mentality but one of the biggest anti-Titan things I have heard is "If you say anything they don't agree with then you are a unicorn" in which case one person from a our community speaking for them self not as a whole goes out and calls them a unicorn.  JustMe isn't some 14 year old in his basment that is exactly what he was talking about, that sometimes we can just cover ears and go LALALALA when people try to point out our flaws, which everyone has.  The best thing to do is ignore him, or better yet.  Listen to him.  If 1000 people keep saying the same thing there is likely some truth in it and by accepting that we may actually be doing that, we can start fixing it.  We need as many people as we can get.  I love the CohTitan Community.  It is a beautiful group of hardworking, honest people that achieve things like moving people across the country.  But the truth remains, I have seen this "With us or a unicorn" attitude in other places on the web being linked to CoHTitan
  You would be rather shocked at how big it is actually.  The difference is that we are organized with a goal, they are just a group of people that are tired of hearing and seeing us.
The entire group of people I started the game with 8 years at launch.  Can't stand CoHtitan.  I have friends in real life who I tried directing to this site for support, they weren't impressed.  The entire SG and global channel I was on in CoH ranging from about 150-200 people all are anti-Titan.  And they aren't unicorns or paid bashers by NCSoft.  Their compliant is the same as everyone else's.  Clearly I don't agree with them or I wouldn't be here.  But they are out there.  I do my best to tell them that the opinions of a few on the site don't express the entire goal of Titan but it makes no difference.

P.S. Before I become the "unicorn" keep in mind that is excatly what people are talking about.  I just point this out because I think it is a rather easy fix.  The first two comments on that page were great.  No fuss or muss, just the facts that NCSoft is a bad publisher.  But, Captain Electric.  Your post was never deleted.  It was just moved for some strange reason.  So NCSoft is not paying them to remove comments.

Good point

[Mistress Urd]

  You would be rather shocked at how big it is actually.  The difference is that we are organized with a goal, they are just a group of people that are tired of hearing and seeing us.
The entire group of people I started the game with 8 years at launch.  Can't stand CoHtitan.  I have friends in real life who I tried directing to this site for support, they weren't impressed.  The entire SG and global channel I was on in CoH ranging from about 150-200 people all are anti-Titan.  And they aren't unicorns or paid bashers by NCSoft.  Their compliant is the same as everyone else's.  Clearly I don't agree with them or I wouldn't be here.  But they are out there.  I do my best to tell them that the opinions of a few on the site don't express the entire goal of Titan but it makes no difference.

P.S. Before I become the "unicorn" keep in mind that is excatly what people are talking about.  I just point this out because I think it is a rather easy fix.  The first two comments on that page were great.  No fuss or muss, just the facts that NCSoft is a bad publisher.  But, Captain Electric.  Your post was never deleted.  It was just moved for some strange reason.  So NCSoft is not paying them to remove comments.

Well in my case I won't support anything from NCSoft and when friends try to ask that I play a game by them I give them what happened to CoH and its done. I don't suggest their games and I do everything on the street level/word of mouth to get people to stay away. Apparently, on behind the scenes PMs etc on Titan, there are people who label me a hate filled vile villain for that. So I certainly don't blame people for being anti-Titan and personally, its my belief that the best method for showing NCSoft the error of their decistion is being a customer lost forever even if that causes collateral damage to Arenanet or Carbine. Does that suck for them? It does and I sympahtise with them but the MMORPG market is very competitive and sometimes a little thing like that can hold sales down a few %. Should Arenanet or Carbine fall under different management down the road I'd have to look at their product more seriously.

[Ironwolf]

My issue is simply with the management of the game City of Heroes and those of the other games they just closed without batting an eye.

I played almost every day from 5am to 7am EST and 9:30pm to 11ish - for 8+ years.

I bought their expansions, costume packs, superpacks and damn near every possible thing there was to have. I had all the powers except Street Justice (just didn't like it) and all my time, money and friends in the game were flushed without a thought in a so long and thanks for the fish moment.

I had just bought the freaking power they released - what a week before they announced shutdown?

So no, I do not trust NCSoft to have the interest of their players regarded in any way. Don't get me wrong - the Devs did indeed and that is why we cared and bought them dinner. However in my book if you are going to run a business about games, you ought to bloody well play them. I would require all my executives to play a minimum of 2 hours a day - each day a different game.

KNOW YOUR OWN PRODUCTS. They have no clue and so have lost out on a gaming community that has the Devs of different games saying CoH should have never been closed as it was a wonderful game.