Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7317712 times)

pinballdave

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18960 on: August 08, 2015, 03:30:48 PM »
Along the reminiscing lines we have discussed, did anyone have an AT or powerset they couldn't adapt to or couldnt wrap their head around? For some time I was unsuccessful with dominators. I could grab all the aggro and have less to finish them than I liked or less mitigation to hold on until they were defeated. But, then electric control came out and I was determined to try the new powerset. I leveled from level 1 to 50, and I noticed I still played it far differently than other dominators. Personally I think the big difference was static field :p

The other was pain domination. I could never get the groove to properly survive or support a team.

Tubbius

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18961 on: August 08, 2015, 03:51:03 PM »
An AT I couldn't wrap around at first but got it with some serious one-night help on how to play it?

Masterminds.

I couldn't get my Thugs Mastermind to do much properly until I had a night of being trained in how to play it right by a fellow member of The Omniscients.  :)

I never did get him to 50 at the end (close!  I'd have to check my Sentinel files to know how close), but he ended up being fun to me.

Von Krieger

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18962 on: August 08, 2015, 04:57:12 PM »
I was rather looking forward to trying out SS/Bio and TW/Bio once it hit live. I remember having a lot of fun with my Staff/Bio Brute on test, even though I needed to write myself a note to sit below my monitor on what did what, what with them both having (I think) three potential states.

Remaugen

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18963 on: August 08, 2015, 05:12:45 PM »
An AT I couldn't wrap around at first but got it with some serious one-night help on how to play it?

Masterminds.

I couldn't get my Thugs Mastermind to do much properly until I had a night of being trained in how to play it right by a fellow member of The Omniscients.  :)

I never did get him to 50 at the end (close!  I'd have to check my Sentinel files to know how close), but he ended up being fun to me.


Even though it was intended to be an Apr Fools joke, I always wanted the Clown MMs, they were still a villain AT then, and can you really think of anything more evil than clowns?

I loved MMs, I got a Ninjas MM to 50, mostly solo and a very weak petless (Thugs) Pistols MM to 50 with a LOT of help before they brought out the Dual Pistol powersets. I had some demons up around level 40ish, and several other types at lower levels.

The MM Pet AI really needed some help though, they could be impossible to manage at times.

I dreamed of MM customization, anything, from some alternate costuming to alternative pet powersets.

I wanted a Heroic counterpart, a "Commander" who could lead Wyvern, Longbow or PPD or maybe even a flock of superhero sidekicks, rather than just allowing players to choose to make a blueside MM. The Rogue/Vigilante paths would still be there, but Masterminds should have started as villains and Commanders should have started as heroes.

MMs were my biggest love of the game, thankfully they were great for solo play, since nobody else wanted them on their teams!  ;D
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Vee

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18964 on: August 08, 2015, 05:20:59 PM »

MMs were my biggest love of the game, thankfully they were great for solo play, since nobody else wanted them on their teams!  ;D

I for one always welcomed someone who'd finish setting up at the door just as the mish was completed.

MegaWatt

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18965 on: August 08, 2015, 05:48:09 PM »

Even though it was intended to be an Apr Fools joke, I always wanted the Clown MMs, they were still a villain AT then, and can you really think of anything more evil than clowns?

I loved MMs, I got a Ninjas MM to 50, mostly solo and a very weak petless (Thugs) Pistols MM to 50 with a LOT of help before they brought out the Dual Pistol powersets. I had some demons up around level 40ish, and several other types at lower levels.

The MM Pet AI really needed some help though, they could be impossible to manage at times.

I dreamed of MM customization, anything, from some alternate costuming to alternative pet powersets.

I wanted a Heroic counterpart, a "Commander" who could lead Wyvern, Longbow or PPD or maybe even a flock of superhero sidekicks, rather than just allowing players to choose to make a blueside MM. The Rogue/Vigilante paths would still be there, but Masterminds should have started as villains and Commanders should have started as heroes.

MMs were my biggest love of the game, thankfully they were great for solo play, since nobody else wanted them on their teams!  ;D

I wanted the Commander too ! or atleast a way to my minions into members of a group in game....turn my mercs into Rogue Malta complete with a gunslinger in place of the commando or PPD with my team in various tiers of Hardshell.

Edit: Come to think of it wouldn't 'PPD Cop' have made a good second Heroic AT ? branching paths ala the SoA's at 32 where you could choose to -BE- a Hardshell or something else ?
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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18966 on: August 08, 2015, 07:00:23 PM »
My brother had made a Villain he had called Alpha Strike (before the Issue named Alpha Strike was even mentioned). Story wise, he was a mercenary who lead a group of mercenaries, and he was hired by our Villain Group. He (my brother) had decided a little while later that some of the mercenaries splintered off and were working for the heroes. So, we had an Alpha group, where everyone wore the same uniform. But, we could be what ever ATs we wanted to be. I had made a Thugs/Traps MM. He had street cred and was able to call in thugs to help deal with situations. Normally, he ran around with a Corruptor...and his helpful thugs, of course. It would have been nice to be able to have dressed the thugs in Alpha uniforms though. Alhough, if I could have done that, I might have used the Merc powerset for the MM
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pinballdave

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18967 on: August 08, 2015, 07:07:37 PM »
The mastermind certainly did receive a lot of 'love' from the Devs as they incrementally brought improvements. All pets could enter the mission after summoned outside. AoE upgrade of pets. Man when that second upgrade took like 90 seconds, it was hell starting as a MM on a team.

More than other ATs in my opinion, some secondaries just did not play nice with some primaries.

Each mastermind played differently from melee to mixed group, to all ranged (I loved my robots). Some were easier to adapt to than others. I played robots from CoV beta and had a lot macros.

The lagging behind sucked. The crowded indoor maps sucked, but the pets _did_ help with dps and buffs/healing, too.

I regret not fleshing out all the interactions with nature's affinity on my masterminds. It was an amazing synergy. Heals over time on squishy minions? Yes, please.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18968 on: August 08, 2015, 07:33:08 PM »
I was rather looking forward to trying out SS/Bio and TW/Bio once it hit live. I remember having a lot of fun with my Staff/Bio Brute on test, even though I needed to write myself a note to sit below my monitor on what did what, what with them both having (I think) three potential states.

The fact that both Staff and Bio had "stances" was actually attractive to me, in that the combo was in effect the most tunable melee combo.  In staff you had the ability to buff recovery, recharge, or direct offense.  In Bio you had the ability to increase offense, defense, or recovery.  The most defensive stance would probably be Form of Mind (recharge) and Defensive Adaptation.  Body (offense, -res) and Offensive Adaptation would probably be the most offensive stance.  In the middle would be things like Soul + Efficient which would be really useful to a Brute in the early going for recovery and endurance discount.

MegaWatt

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18969 on: August 08, 2015, 07:43:14 PM »
as soon as i heard bio armor i wanted it regardless of actual abilities....was it going to be available for stalker by any chance?
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hejtmane

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18970 on: August 08, 2015, 08:20:02 PM »
Along the reminiscing lines we have discussed, did anyone have an AT or powerset they couldn't adapt to or couldnt wrap their head around? For some time I was unsuccessful with dominators. I could grab all the aggro and have less to finish them than I liked or less mitigation to hold on until they were defeated. But, then electric control came out and I was determined to try the new powerset. I leveled from level 1 to 50, and I noticed I still played it far differently than other dominators. Personally I think the big difference was static field :p

The other was pain domination. I could never get the groove to properly survive or support a team.

It is not that I could not wrap my head around them it was the play style I had 8 level 50's 1 was a controller ill/rad the other 7 were scrappers. I tired other sets and got some into the 30's and 40's but I just die out. It was a play style issue not a could not get my head wrapped around issue. Funny of my 8 50's 4 of them were before IO's ever existed

duane

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18971 on: August 08, 2015, 08:22:42 PM »
as soon as i heard bio armor i wanted it regardless of actual abilities....was it going to be available for stalker by any chance?

Stalker! http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Bio_Armor#Stalker

Brute, scrapper and tanker: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Bio_Armor#Brute.2FScrapper.2FTanker

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18972 on: August 08, 2015, 08:22:56 PM »
I wanted a Heroic counterpart, a "Commander" who could lead Wyvern, Longbow or PPD or maybe even a flock of superhero sidekicks, rather than just allowing players to choose to make a blueside MM. The Rogue/Vigilante paths would still be there, but Masterminds should have started as villains and Commanders should have started as heroes.

Outside of a world with unlimited resources, I don't see the point.  That would be like asking for a heroic corruptor that is just like corruptors but start on the blue side.  While it makes sense conceptually, it doesn't really make sense from a gameplay perspective.

Sidekicks was an idea I toyed around with.  I had this idea that superheroes (and villains) could unlock and acquire a sidekick as a form of epic power upon reaching level 50.  There would have to be strict limits on what the sidekick could do, because giving everyone a pet in City of Heroes given its game mechanics would be potentially game breaking.  In fact I was experimenting with the idea in Architect beta, and it was clear that "friend" NPCs could get ridiculously out of control extremely quickly.  So much so that the devs placed very complex limits on what NPCs could do to help players in AE missions.

Probably more importantly it would dilute the gameplay uniqueness of controllers.  And in a world of finite resources and replay-focus, I felt most of them should be spent on expanding the world of gameplay rather than replicating gameplay in different contexts.  There were still lots of things no archetype could do or was focused on.

Inventing an entire new archetype is expensive, but I had two ideas for doing so that would be "relatively" cheap.  The first was a red-side archetype based on the concept of vampiric energy drain and transfer.  The primary would be modified versions of some blaster primaries - dark blast, energy blast, electric blast, ice blast, psychic blast, sonic blast in particular.  The powers would work similarly, but they would have a new effect where they would heal or buff the attacker or the attacker's team mates or both.  Think powers like Life Drain or Fulcrum Shift (not necessarily that powerful though).  The secondary would be blaster manipulation sets, basically unmodified.  They would in effect be the buff/heal version of Dominators, but work functionally more like Controllers (where Controller offense is also their control, this archetype would use its offense for buff/heal).  The powers basically already exist, they just need balancing of their secondary effects and some thought into archetype modifiers.  Something close to corruptors, probably.  This would not be "easy" per se, but far easier than creating a new archetype totally from scratch.

On the hero side, I was thinking about a much more complex archetype: the melee stealth controller.  Modified stalker secondaries as the primary, modified controller primaries as the secondary but with powers truncated to melee range or PBAoE, and new stealth mechanics.  The novel idea is that stealth allows interesting alpha strike control, and control mitigates attacks breaking stealth.  And no pets: every melee control set would get pets replaced with something more like mass confusion.

I doubted these ideas would go anywhere, but they were reference points for the notion that even without inventing radical new powers (like shape changing or things like that) there were still many areas of capability the existing archetypes didn't overlap.  I would have preferred continuing to extend the game in those directions than filling in the small gaps in between the existing archetypes which are there in part to keep the archetypes from blurring together in the first place.

Ankhammon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18973 on: August 08, 2015, 08:23:10 PM »
I played with a bio\ice\sorcery tank on test for a while and it looks great. The synergy between the three was incredible.
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Vee

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18974 on: August 08, 2015, 10:01:35 PM »
I think a sidekick temp power, say a 1 minute duration/10 minute cooldown would be cool. It could be based on the golden age mini-me sidekicks - just be a weaker version of you using the same tech they used for when you had to fight yourself in posi/etc. Maybe a palette swap of your costume or one of the costumes you're not wearing if the option to customize was too tough to do. Could have an unlock arc that was purportedly about training them but really involved you rescuing them over and over ala Fusionette. But yeah, as insanely powerful as we already were at the end of the game it'd be more piling on of OPness.

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18975 on: August 08, 2015, 10:17:15 PM »
An AT I couldn't wrap around at first but got it with some serious one-night help on how to play it?

Masterminds.

I couldn't get my Thugs Mastermind to do much properly until I had a night of being trained in how to play it right by a fellow member of The Omniscients.  :)

I never did get him to 50 at the end (close!  I'd have to check my Sentinel files to know how close), but he ended up being fun to me.

MMs are a different kind of beast, I tried to keep mine busy doing something rather than being the bored MM who stands around doing nothing but ordering pets around.

pinballdave

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18976 on: August 08, 2015, 11:41:03 PM »
I liked the active mastermind sets, too. I started with a robots/poison. It wasn't the most synergistic but i preferred a mad scientist with chemicals and robots to a drug-related gang. I loved the storm secondary. It worked great with robots, thugs, and even necro, but a new player didn't want to learn storm playing necro pets.

I really like when thermal was proliferated to masterminds. Flaming zombies were hot, Heh. Demons in thermal shields were hotter. Ok ok, I stop.

I think the last development in my playstyle was to mix up the pets stance. Of course the alpha strike (first battle) or boss fight I would turtle up with all on defensive/follow. Each mastermind secondary I would have one or two on aggressive, the rest in bodyguard. The Demon top tier pet was great to put on aggressive and follow around, especially if he had his ice sword out. I liked to follow the necro lieutenants around, too, providing support and just tearing up.

Remaugen

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18977 on: August 09, 2015, 12:43:51 AM »

<snip!>. . .Sidekicks was an idea I toyed around with.  I had this idea that superheroes (and villains) could unlock and acquire a sidekick as a form of epic power upon reaching level 50. . .<Snip!>


In the same vein, I wanted a Sidekick Incarnate power. As the power tier progressed so did the sidekicks available powers and abilities.
We're almost there!  ;D

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HEATSTROKE

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18978 on: August 09, 2015, 01:30:48 AM »
Along the reminiscing lines we have discussed, did anyone have an AT or powerset they couldn't adapt to or couldnt wrap their head around? For some time I was unsuccessful with dominators. I could grab all the aggro and have less to finish them than I liked or less mitigation to hold on until they were defeated. But, then electric control came out and I was determined to try the new powerset. I leveled from level 1 to 50, and I noticed I still played it far differently than other dominators. Personally I think the big difference was static field :p

The other was pain domination. I could never get the groove to properly survive or support a team.

Nope... not really... there were AT's and powerset that I didnt like.. but I could have played them..

Zombie Hustler

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18979 on: August 09, 2015, 03:08:05 AM »
I would have liked to see the Masterminds get existing NPC groups as pets, rather than generic ones, myself. Skulls, Hellions, Outcasts, CoT. Of course, that would have made it more difficult as the Heroic MMs would then have to have been redone and balanced once Going Rogue came out and made them viable options. (Plus I'm sure the devs didn't want to deal with the headaches of people questioning the canonicity of it all.)

As for the clowns set, I still think it would have been cool and never quite understood the devs constant rejection of the idea. If they were worried it was too one-note, then it could have been a carnival/circus set, with clowns and other things in it. I would have loved to see the "Human Cannonball" power. :p