Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7293168 times)

duane

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18940 on: August 06, 2015, 10:37:20 PM »
Simple question.  Are we there yet?  (And I know we aren't, but I wish we were).

The bus keeps rolling.  Slowly.  There is a lovely side attraction called the Paragon Chat that uses the coh game client to allow you to log in and chat with others.  No powers, no missions, no villains -- just chat!
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 11:46:54 PM by duane »

Daermanonn

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18941 on: August 06, 2015, 10:46:40 PM »
Hi folks greetings from Europe,

i just registered because i wanted to say i really appreciate the effort some people are doing here. I hope so much that CoX will return.

Ironically my wife and me aren't really that much in Superheroes and such. But we simply loved CoX. It is not just the best Superhero MMO it is also a truly unique MMORPG in its own.
We loved it for so many things, i guess i can't recall them all and i think you all know them yourself :D

To put it simple, if CoX will come back there are two subscribers more you can count on. (Life-time-membership anyone?). We would get two of those too.

Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18942 on: August 07, 2015, 12:53:40 AM »
Having recently watched some MacGyver episodes on stream I began to think, what archetype would MacGyver be?

He has doctorates in chemistry and physics and engineering,  decent in a fight though not a blackbelt martial artist, HATES guns and refuses to use them thus ruling out the Blaster archetype, and can basically build anything out of anything whether the laws of physics state it should work or not :)

So not a blaster, scrapper, tank, brute, dominator, or peacebringer/warshade........I keep thinking that he would be a bot/trap mastermind, yet even that doesn't seem right.
In fearful COH-less days
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When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

KennonGL

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18943 on: August 07, 2015, 01:14:13 AM »
Having recently watched some MacGyver episodes on stream I began to think, what archetype would MacGyver be?

He has doctorates in chemistry and physics and engineering,  decent in a fight though not a blackbelt martial artist, HATES guns and refuses to use them thus ruling out the Blaster archetype, and can basically build anything out of anything whether the laws of physics state it should work or not :)

So not a blaster, scrapper, tank, brute, dominator, or peacebringer/warshade........I keep thinking that he would be a bot/trap mastermind, yet even that doesn't seem right.

Traps/Electric Defender -- takes almost nothing from the blast secondary (Tesla Cage and Short Circuit maybe as those are kind of gimmicky)
then takes Fighting, Medicine, Presence, and either Mace or Power mastery

My 2 cents anyway.

Vee

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18944 on: August 07, 2015, 01:15:37 AM »
Um, wouldn't he MacGuyver his own archetype?

Rejolt

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18945 on: August 07, 2015, 01:24:38 AM »
Traps/Electric Defender -- takes almost nothing from the blast secondary (Tesla Cage and Short Circuit maybe as those are kind of gimmicky)
then takes Fighting, Medicine, Presence, and either Mace or Power mastery

My 2 cents anyway.

If I were emo or something I'd take that statement personally...

/glare.
Rejolt Industries LLC is now a thing. Woo!

KennonGL

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18946 on: August 07, 2015, 01:54:02 AM »
If I were emo or something I'd take that statement personally...

/glare.

Huh?

MM3squints

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18947 on: August 07, 2015, 02:40:04 AM »
Huh?

Someone talked smack to my elec/nrg blaster main (good natured talk but smack none the less). I figured it'd be easy. Power Boost + Aim + Short Circuit (issue 5 numbers mind you) and I'd wipe out his endurance. First hit and it looked like nothing was taken off of him.

Issue 5 Short Circuit drained flat points and not percentage. It also did 1/3 in pvp that it did in pve. Needless to say, my friend had 80-ish endurance to kill me in one scrapper combo. I didn't go back much after that lol. The change of what I was used to in pve vs. pvp was too vast to get over.

Couple post latter (on another page)

Traps/Electric Defender -- takes almost nothing from the blast secondary (Tesla Cage and Short Circuit maybe as those are kind of gimmicky)
then takes Fighting, Medicine, Presence, and either Mace or Power mastery

My 2 cents anyway.

Lawl

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18948 on: August 07, 2015, 03:19:47 PM »
I may have been on one of those TFs.  I remember being on an awesome TF run led by a 10-y-o.  it was on... ugh... Striga Island, I believe.
Sounds about right :) against council if I recall.(or was it 5th column)?

Felderburg

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18949 on: August 07, 2015, 05:25:06 PM »
What about being able to teleport to a team leader's zone? So instead of having a black bar in place of the team's leader's health bar when leader was out of zone, there was a shiny button letting you teleport to the leader's zone? Could be abused in task forces a bit and would need some lore to rationalize it, but other than that it seems fine?

The lore is already there. Every single player character has a city or island wide teleporter network constantly monitoring them. Not too hard to imagine it could be used not only for sending grievously injured people to a hospital, but also to send one person directly to another's location.

Edit: and on a waaaaaaaaaaaaay earlier comment about PVP ruining the game: Why couldn't they have made the changes related to PVP only happen in the PvP zones ?

I thought.... that this happened? Is that wrong?

I will say, that really is the way things need to be. Before I left STO, the fact that PvE and PvP weren't separate created a huge artificial rift between the groups of players (exacerbated by the fact that there are paid-for powers in the store).
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I'm working on sorting the Lore AMAs so that questions are easily found and linked: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted Tell me what you think!

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MM3squints

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18950 on: August 07, 2015, 05:34:54 PM »

I thought.... that this happened? Is that wrong?


It did it was i13, although there was some bleed over like Energy Transfer animation increase

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18951 on: August 07, 2015, 07:12:19 PM »
It did it was i13, although there was some bleed over like Energy Transfer animation increase

Energy Transfer's animation change occurred at the same time as a significant number of other powers' animations were altered for a variety of reasons.  Although PvP concerns might have been one of them, had PvP not existed at all Energy Transfer's animation would have still been changed.  Every power with animation duration less than 0.84 seconds was targeted, as was any power whose DPA was considered wildly outside the current norm.  The original rationale for Energy Transfer's extreme damage and fast cast time was that this was counterbalanced against its self damage, but that rationale was no longer considered credible.  PvP might have been the cherry on the top, but it wasn't the only reason that power was changed.

In fact, the same logic that produced the Energy Transfer change also reduced the mag 4 stun in Energy Manipulation's total focus.  Not many people blame PvP for that because no one can come up with a PvP rationale for that change, but it happened for similar reasons, namely the rationale for why it existed in the first place was something the devs no longer agreed with, and that made it an outlier.  Eventually it was going to be targeted, and the only question was when the devs would decide to schedule time to address it.  Which, by the way, is another question the players often asked.  "If it was really because of such and such reason, why didn't they change it long ago" presumes that if a change happens now, the reason for it must be something that itself happens right now; either something caused it now, or something was brought to the attention of the devs right now.  That's not how people work.

Actually, the context of the Energy Transfer change is even bigger than that.  The same logic that caused Energy Transfer's animation time to be increased is the same one that caused many melee attacks' animations to be *decreased* around the same time, including powers in, say, Battle Axe.  I know because I played no small part in getting the devs to think carefully about the fact that animations were not primarily cosmetic, but were actually the beginning and the end of offensive power performance.  The two parameters the devs used to control power performance originally come from the original game design which regulated endurance and recharge as the two primary moderators of performance.  But its really animation rooted time that is the singular measure of an attack's value.  That notion didn't even exist until long after launch, and while quantitative players had accepted that fact for the most part by I6 it really didn't hit home for the devs until Stupid_Fanboy's inspired Claws adjustments happened.  The devs were predicting 8% increase in performance from their changes, I was predicting 50%, and only one of us was right.  My belief is that spectacular failure of the power design rules to predict the output of Claws, and the success of DPA-based and attack chain calculations to predict it accurately (by that time I wasn't the only one using attack chains to analyze offensive sets, so a few players made similar although not identical predictions) finally caused a shift in thinking about what it meant for an attack power to be "balanced" and that eventually caused the devs to start looking at DPA more.

That was the steamroller that was bearing down on Energy Transfer, and I saw it form over a period of years.  PvP or not, it wasn't going to survive forever as a DPA 4+ attack.

MM3squints

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18952 on: August 07, 2015, 07:20:56 PM »
Energy Transfer's animation change occurred at the same time as a significant number of other powers' animations were altered for a variety of reasons.  Although PvP concerns might have been one of them, had PvP not existed at all Energy Transfer's animation would have still been changed.  Every power with animation duration less than 0.84 seconds was targeted, as was any power whose DPA was considered wildly outside the current norm.  The original rationale for Energy Transfer's extreme damage and fast cast time was that this was counterbalanced against its self damage, but that rationale was no longer considered credible.  PvP might have been the cherry on the top, but it wasn't the only reason that power was changed.

In fact, the same logic that produced the Energy Transfer change also reduced the mag 4 stun in Energy Manipulation's total focus.  Not many people blame PvP for that because no one can come up with a PvP rationale for that change, but it happened for similar reasons, namely the rationale for why it existed in the first place was something the devs no longer agreed with, and that made it an outlier.  Eventually it was going to be targeted, and the only question was when the devs would decide to schedule time to address it.  Which, by the way, is another question the players often asked.  "If it was really because of such and such reason, why didn't they change it long ago" presumes that if a change happens now, the reason for it must be something that itself happens right now; either something caused it now, or something was brought to the attention of the devs right now.  That's not how people work.

Actually, the context of the Energy Transfer change is even bigger than that.  The same logic that caused Energy Transfer's animation time to be increased is the same one that caused many melee attacks' animations to be *decreased* around the same time, including powers in, say, Battle Axe.  I know because I played no small part in getting the devs to think carefully about the fact that animations were not primarily cosmetic, but were actually the beginning and the end of offensive power performance.  The two parameters the devs used to control power performance originally come from the original game design which regulated endurance and recharge as the two primary moderators of performance.  But its really animation rooted time that is the singular measure of an attack's value.  That notion didn't even exist until long after launch, and while quantitative players had accepted that fact for the most part by I6 it really didn't hit home for the devs until Stupid_Fanboy's inspired Claws adjustments happened.  The devs were predicting 8% increase in performance from their changes, I was predicting 50%, and only one of us was right.  My belief is that spectacular failure of the power design rules to predict the output of Claws, and the success of DPA-based and attack chain calculations to predict it accurately (by that time I wasn't the only one using attack chains to analyze offensive sets, so a few players made similar although not identical predictions) finally caused a shift in thinking about what it meant for an attack power to be "balanced" and that eventually caused the devs to start looking at DPA more.

That was the steamroller that was bearing down on Energy Transfer, and I saw it form over a period of years.  PvP or not, it wasn't going to survive forever as a DPA 4+ attack.

It was funny when you see a stalker BU+AS+ET (if target isn't dead)+TF, even more funny when a stalker pulled that combo and the target didn't die, but one thing about the animation change, ET original animation, from just for a lack of a better word, "role playing" purpose was pretty meh. It was just a jab animation with a ball of energy going to the target. The new animation did change the look so the attack justified the power.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18953 on: August 07, 2015, 07:34:31 PM »
It was funny when you see a stalker BU+AS+ET (if target isn't dead)+TF, even more funny when a stalker pulled that combo and the target didn't die, but one thing about the animation change, ET original animation, from just for a lack of a better word, "role playing" purpose was pretty meh. It was just a jab animation with a ball of energy going to the target. The new animation did change the look so the attack justified the power.

BaB explicitly wanted an animation that he felt matched the extreme (ultra extreme) damage of the power.  And even after the change, energy transfer was *still* one of the highest DPA attacks in existence.

Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18954 on: August 07, 2015, 09:27:48 PM »
It was funny when you see a stalker BU+AS+ET (if target isn't dead)+TF, even more funny when a stalker pulled that combo and the target didn't die, but one thing about the animation change, ET original animation, from just for a lack of a better word, "role playing" purpose was pretty meh. It was just a jab animation with a ball of energy going to the target. The new animation did change the look so the attack justified the power.

Actually for me the original ET animation/charge time/attack reminded me of Danny Rand's power of the IRON FIST.

When the game returns I wouldn't mind if ET was either reverted or else the original version of it was available in customization menu.
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

ivanhedgehog

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18955 on: August 07, 2015, 09:29:19 PM »
Energy Transfer's animation change occurred at the same time as a significant number of other powers' animations were altered for a variety of reasons.  Although PvP concerns might have been one of them, had PvP not existed at all Energy Transfer's animation would have still been changed.  Every power with animation duration less than 0.84 seconds was targeted, as was any power whose DPA was considered wildly outside the current norm.  The original rationale for Energy Transfer's extreme damage and fast cast time was that this was counterbalanced against its self damage, but that rationale was no longer considered credible.  PvP might have been the cherry on the top, but it wasn't the only reason that power was changed.

In fact, the same logic that produced the Energy Transfer change also reduced the mag 4 stun in Energy Manipulation's total focus.  Not many people blame PvP for that because no one can come up with a PvP rationale for that change, but it happened for similar reasons, namely the rationale for why it existed in the first place was something the devs no longer agreed with, and that made it an outlier.  Eventually it was going to be targeted, and the only question was when the devs would decide to schedule time to address it.  Which, by the way, is another question the players often asked.  "If it was really because of such and such reason, why didn't they change it long ago" presumes that if a change happens now, the reason for it must be something that itself happens right now; either something caused it now, or something was brought to the attention of the devs right now.  That's not how people work.

Actually, the context of the Energy Transfer change is even bigger than that.  The same logic that caused Energy Transfer's animation time to be increased is the same one that caused many melee attacks' animations to be *decreased* around the same time, including powers in, say, Battle Axe.  I know because I played no small part in getting the devs to think carefully about the fact that animations were not primarily cosmetic, but were actually the beginning and the end of offensive power performance.  The two parameters the devs used to control power performance originally come from the original game design which regulated endurance and recharge as the two primary moderators of performance.  But its really animation rooted time that is the singular measure of an attack's value.  That notion didn't even exist until long after launch, and while quantitative players had accepted that fact for the most part by I6 it really didn't hit home for the devs until Stupid_Fanboy's inspired Claws adjustments happened.  The devs were predicting 8% increase in performance from their changes, I was predicting 50%, and only one of us was right.  My belief is that spectacular failure of the power design rules to predict the output of Claws, and the success of DPA-based and attack chain calculations to predict it accurately (by that time I wasn't the only one using attack chains to analyze offensive sets, so a few players made similar although not identical predictions) finally caused a shift in thinking about what it meant for an attack power to be "balanced" and that eventually caused the devs to start looking at DPA more.

That was the steamroller that was bearing down on Energy Transfer, and I saw it form over a period of years.  PvP or not, it wasn't going to survive forever as a DPA 4+ attack.

when they changed em was when i stopped playing it(and pretty much everyone else) it wasnt the same set I leveled up and wasnt fun any more. other tank sets were so much better it wasnt funny. my stone /em tank went on the shelf for good. the devs culled every high point but were not prepared to raise its low points.

Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18956 on: August 07, 2015, 10:04:29 PM »
when they changed em was when i stopped playing it(and pretty much everyone else) it wasnt the same set I leveled up and wasnt fun any more. other tank sets were so much better it wasnt funny. my stone /em tank went on the shelf for good. the devs culled every high point but were not prepared to raise its low points.

My em stone and em energy armor brutes stayed active after the changes.  I tuned up their builds to keep ET but made sure they were def capped and all other attack powers were sufficiently boosted to compensate for ET's new charge time.

That being said, yes other sets were more fun but EM wasn't crippled, per se'.
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18957 on: August 07, 2015, 10:19:26 PM »
when they changed em was when i stopped playing it(and pretty much everyone else) it wasnt the same set I leveled up and wasnt fun any more. other tank sets were so much better it wasnt funny. my stone /em tank went on the shelf for good. the devs culled every high point but were not prepared to raise its low points.

That was more psychology than anything else.  The set played similarly after the changes, with the one exception of the fast ET - which numerically had limited actual impact in terms of overall damage output.  The perception of Energy Melee was that it had weak AoE but was extremely good at single target because of ET.  An analysis of that contention showed it to be false: that's not how attack chains work.

Since the "fun" aspect of Energy Melee was tied up in the perception of ET and not its actual performance, there was no real way to address that problem directly.  And since the generally accepted weakness of the set was low AoE, and that was something the devs tended not to tamper with very often as a rule, that was problematic.

However, the notion that everyone stopped playing the set after the change is also purely one of perception.  I continued to play the set, and statistically I don't think a material number of players overall stopped playing the set.  Forumites often perceived their issues as representing the playerbase as a whole, but rarely was that true.  The devs monitored for dramatic changes like that, and would have acted on them if it occurred.  In fact, if a powerset could be statistically demonstrated to be infrequently played, that alone, with no other numerical problems, would be enough for the devs to consider reviewing the set.  The fact is the average player couldn't even *tell* when such changes were made, much less react to them negatively.

hejtmane

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18958 on: August 08, 2015, 04:12:13 AM »
Having recently watched some MacGyver episodes on stream I began to think, what archetype would MacGyver be?

He has doctorates in chemistry and physics and engineering,  decent in a fight though not a blackbelt martial artist, HATES guns and refuses to use them thus ruling out the Blaster archetype, and can basically build anything out of anything whether the laws of physics state it should work or not :)

So not a blaster, scrapper, tank, brute, dominator, or peacebringer/warshade........I keep thinking that he would be a bot/trap mastermind, yet even that doesn't seem right.

Electric Trick Arrow controller

I mean Electricity is Physics Trick arrow glue arrow; poison arrow chemistry and engineering and physics

I mean he was king of a controller

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18959 on: August 08, 2015, 04:32:07 AM »
Having recently watched some MacGyver episodes on stream I began to think, what archetype would MacGyver be?

He has doctorates in chemistry and physics and engineering,  decent in a fight though not a blackbelt martial artist, HATES guns and refuses to use them thus ruling out the Blaster archetype, and can basically build anything out of anything whether the laws of physics state it should work or not :)

So not a blaster, scrapper, tank, brute, dominator, or peacebringer/warshade........I keep thinking that he would be a bot/trap mastermind, yet even that doesn't seem right.

It kind of depends on what aspect of the character you're trying to represent, but if I had to choose I would probably go traps/archery defender.  Traps would represent MacGyver's improvisational technology skills, and while MacGyver rarely used weaponry directly against human targets he was an outdoorsman and I could see him being proficient with bow and arrow.