New efforts!

[ivanhedgehog]

I always had the feeling that the players looked to create blame where none existed... there was no reason why the Devs should NOT try to balance Blaster DPS even for PvE. But it's easier on a player's mind to "Blame the PvPers" when their Ice Blast set had its Ice Blast slowed down, than to say "well, it was doing more DPS than most other sets, it's not unreasonable to balance them so they have the same activation time". So the blame went out to PvPing, because it's always easier to think that a nerf was inappropriate and only done in order to benefit some other group of players, than to admit that a power that you liked really was too good and that a nerfing might have been appropriate.

the problem with that is that they didnt balance in reality. blasters were supposed to give up defense for the strongest offense, yet scrappers had just as much offense and very good defense. coh was not all that bad about it but games like swtor have been horrible in nerfing pve to make pvp happy. after playing both games, I have to say that COH had developer gods compared to swtor.

[pinballdave]

To be sure, a player at level 10-20 have a ton more content in 2012 than they did in 2006. Radio missions, crafting tutorial, cape missions, signature story arcs, special events like new year's, halloween, blockbuster movies (how low were you able to access that?), 3 different positron taskforces, the new faultline, cross over to gold or red, death from below - join in if you know more of the verses. Our supergroup in the early days thought street sweeping on an 8 man defender team in Boomtown was great xp.

[MM3squints]

I always thought the "Dead Zone" for lvling was around 30-35. That is where the Croatoa Arc Finishes and you need Five more level to get to the stuff in the RWZ. The only memory of me doing anything from that time is killing Mary MacComber over and over again to keep getting AV XP to get to lvl 35 fast.

[hurple]

To be sure, a player at level 10-20 have a ton more content in 2012 than they did in 2006. Radio missions, crafting tutorial, cape missions, signature story arcs, special events like new year's, halloween, blockbuster movies (how low were you able to access that?), 3 different positron taskforces, the new faultline, cross over to gold or red, death from below - join in if you know more of the verses. Our supergroup in the early days thought street sweeping on an 8 man defender team in Boomtown was great xp.

Aw... durnit!  I never did a blockbuster movie arc.  I knew I was forgetting something.  We need this game back NOW so I can do a few.

[Abraxus]

To be sure, a player at level 10-20 have a ton more content in 2012 than they did in 2006. Radio missions, crafting tutorial, cape missions, signature story arcs, special events like new year's, halloween, blockbuster movies (how low were you able to access that?), 3 different positron taskforces, the new faultline, cross over to gold or red, death from below - join in if you know more of the verses. Our supergroup in the early days thought street sweeping on an 8 man defender team in Boomtown was great xp.

I remember a team my SG did once a week, for quite some time, which consisted of 6 RAD/??? defenders, and 2 Controllers (can't remember their powersets).  With 6 combined RAD debuffs on ANYTHING, it was easily ripped to shreds by our meager offensive capability.  That RAD team worked so well, we all just knew it was gonna be nerfed any day!  The only time we got killed was when we got lazy, or set our sites just a little too high for our advantage to work.  It was awesome! 

Ah...those were the days.  I hope someday, we will get a chance to do it again!

[Arcana]

I always had the feeling that the players looked to create blame where none existed... there was no reason why the Devs should NOT try to balance Blaster DPS even for PvE. But it's easier on a player's mind to "Blame the PvPers" when their Ice Blast set had its Ice Blast slowed down, than to say "well, it was doing more DPS than most other sets, it's not unreasonable to balance them so they have the same activation time". So the blame went out to PvPing, because it's always easier to think that a nerf was inappropriate and only done in order to benefit some other group of players, than to admit that a power that you liked really was too good and that a nerfing might have been appropriate.

The devs did sometimes change a power's PvE effects as a consequence of making a PvP change, but the number of times the devs made a PvE change they wouldn't have wanted to make anyway because of a PvP prompt is extremely tiny.  In other words, PvP could be the final straw that triggered a PvE change, but generally speaking the devs didn't make PvE changes unless there was a good PvE reason for making it, regardless of PvP considerations.  PvP was changed for PvE reasons far more often than PvE was changed for PvP reasons.

[blacksly]

the problem with that is that they didnt balance in reality. blasters were supposed to give up defense for the strongest offense, yet scrappers had just as much offense and very good defense. coh was not all that bad about it but games like swtor have been horrible in nerfing pve to make pvp happy. after playing both games, I have to say that COH had developer gods compared to swtor.

I was talking about intra-AT balance, such as making sure that Ice Blast, Assault Rifle, and Energy Blast all have the same activation times for their Tier 1 attack with the same recharge and damage (although maybe Burst may have a slight damage boost for being a fast DoT). You're talking about inter-AT balance, which is a lot trickier, because you have to worry not only about statistical issues but also about "value" issues. For example, sure, Scrappers were statistically better than Blasters in most every way except large-scale AoE damage. But large-scale AoE damage, especially at game start when there were no target limits and you could 6-slot Inferno with damage, was a very important part of the game. Maybe it wasn't important enough, especially once target limits and ED were added, but you still have to worry about not only balancing each AT's strengths and weaknesses, but also how relevant those strengths and weaknesses are.

Besides, the Devs almost never nerfed any powers or powersets because of balance issues with other ATs. It was pretty much always an intra-AT balance issue (nerf Regen again!), and in the cases where there was any issue that involved other ATs, it was the weaker AT that got boosted rather than the strong AT getting nerfed. Leaving aside, of course, global nerfs like the Global Defense Nerf (of 2005? or 2006?).

[Mageman]

the problem with that is that they didnt balance in reality. blasters were supposed to give up defense for the strongest offense, yet scrappers had just as much offense and very good defense. coh was not all that bad about it but games like swtor have been horrible in nerfing pve to make pvp happy. after playing both games, I have to say that COH had developer gods compared to swtor.

I have to agree. In the early days of CoH, Blasters were a lot of fun. Taking a moderately-low level blaster and street sweeping Skulls and Hellions in Perez Park - now that was a blast! Literally! You could solo non-boss groups with just Fireball and Firebreath. Just a few Lts would survive with not much left, taken down easily with your fire blast.

[Riverdusk]

I think the game took a bigger turn for the worse when PVP was added.  The game wasn't originally designed for PVP and it was my feeling that wedging it in with a crowbar started us down the road of balancing powersets against one another, enhancement diversification, AOE target/damage limits, etc.  To me, most of these changes were an attempt to allow different archetypes and powersets to compete head to head in PVP.

I started playing a superhero MMO to be super.  I enjoyed having 6 fire imps or herding huge groups with a fire tanker and dropping burn.  I think the wide difference between abilities and survivability in various builds in the early game also encouraged teaming.

...just my 2 cents

That made me remember the Beta CoH message boards.  I'll never forget so many threads back in the day demanding PvP.  All with doom and gloom predictions that the game would be a complete failure and shut down within 6 months of launch if it didn't have PvP.

[Ryo Kinsaru]

That made me remember the Beta CoH message boards.  I'll never forget so many threads back in the day demanding PvP.  All with doom and gloom predictions that the game would be a complete failure and shut down within 6 months of launch if it didn't have PvP.

Human nature: wanting anything/everything that you don't have.

I was dragged into the PvP aspect by my SG even though I wasn't really interested and I backed out of it after it turned out to be a lot of camping the enemy base and warping them out one at a time to crush them in the middle of ten of us then taunt and ridicule them in global chat. Seemed like a horrible waste of time and a good way to make enemies out of fellow players. I also remember utterly destroying some young lady who was patrolling the War Zone for badges and didn't want to fight, and I feel like crap about it to this day. I couldn't have cared less about the PvP to be totally honest with you. Give me a mothership raid any day. I didn't feel bad for the Rikti one bit.

[Abraxus]

I never had much interest in PvP either, but I eventually let myself get talked into it.  The first time by Uber-Tank got taken apart by a Controller, I was done and never went back.

[Rejolt]

I never had much interest in PvP either, but I eventually let myself get talked into it.  The first time by Uber-Tank got taken apart by a Controller, I was done and never went back.

Someone talked smack to my elec/nrg blaster main (good natured talk but smack none the less). I figured it'd be easy. Power Boost + Aim + Short Circuit (issue 5 numbers mind you) and I'd wipe out his endurance. First hit and it looked like nothing was taken off of him.

Issue 5 Short Circuit drained flat points and not percentage. It also did 1/3 in pvp that it did in pve. Needless to say, my friend had 80-ish endurance to kill me in one scrapper combo. I didn't go back much after that lol. The change of what I was used to in pve vs. pvp was too vast to get over.

[JKPhage]

I always thought the "Dead Zone" for lvling was around 30-35. That is where the Croatoa Arc Finishes and you need Five more level to get to the stuff in the RWZ. The only memory of me doing anything from that time is killing Mary MacComber over and over again to keep getting AV XP to get to lvl 35 fast.

My first 50 was on a relatively low-pop server and I had *no* idea what I was doing honestly. I hadn't discovered the forum community just yet, the couple of friends I played with were hardly on at the time, and I didn't really want to go trolling for leveling guides that would probably be outdated. At level 30 I ended up standing on the roof of the train station in Brickstown for almost three weeks straight just broadcasting, begging for a team because I could see that there were tons of other people in the zone, but nobody was biting. I eventually got desperate and just ended up street-sweeping prisoners and magically I got sucked up into a pick up team that was doing the same thing and got all the way to 35 in a matter of about an hour. Then I promptly bounced out of there and to this day I hate even having to set foot in Brickstown. It represents nothing but loneliness and despair to me.

[Brigadine]

My first 50 was on a relatively low-pop server and I had *no* idea what I was doing honestly. I hadn't discovered the forum community just yet, the couple of friends I played with were hardly on at the time, and I didn't really want to go trolling for leveling guides that would probably be outdated. At level 30 I ended up standing on the roof of the train station in Brickstown for almost three weeks straight just broadcasting, begging for a team because I could see that there were tons of other people in the zone, but nobody was biting. I eventually got desperate and just ended up street-sweeping prisoners and magically I got sucked up into a pick up team that was doing the same thing and got all the way to 35 in a matter of about an hour. Then I promptly bounced out of there and to this day I hate even having to set foot in Brickstown. It represents nothing but loneliness and despair to me.

Even on freedom it was tough to find people

[duane]

Even on freedom it was tough to find people

It was more common people needed a nudge to form a team, but there was fear of owning the leadership star and "make a mistake".  I was happy to show friendly strangers new/old content whether it was team play, wentworths or just to say hi. 

I cannot tell you the number of times I had previously typed text ready to copy and paste to tell people about wentworth, game channels or a link to paragon wiki-- the best coh resource outside of the game.  It was a level of comfort I have not found otherwise.

[Brigadine]

It was more common people needed a nudge to form a team, but there was fear of owning the leadership star and "make a mistake".  I was happy to show friendly strangers new/old content whether it was team play, wentworths or just to say hi. 

I cannot tell you the number of times I had previously typed text ready to copy and paste to tell people about wentworth, game channels or a link to paragon wiki-- the best coh resource outside of the game.  It was a level of comfort I have not found otherwise.

I loved the leadership star. I was leading task forces successfully at the age of 10. People didn't even know how young I was till I told them.

[triedac]

I return every now and then for an update, but also to read some of the comments about everything Good to still see it active. Loving the memory flashbacks lol

[hurple]

I loved the leadership star. I was leading task forces successfully at the age of 10. People didn't even know how young I was till I told them.

I may have been on one of those TFs.  I remember being on an awesome TF run led by a 10-y-o.  it was on... ugh... Striga Island, I believe.

[Heroette]

Simple question.  Are we there yet?  (And I know we aren't, but I wish we were).

[Abraxus]

My son was playing pretty regularly a 7 or 8, and had gotten good enough to lead TF by the time he was 9!  Sometimes he would come in while I was playing and question why I did some things the way I did, and tell me I was lame for doing it that way.  Sometimes it was just because he was not aware there were more than one way to do some things, but sometimes he was absolutely right about something I thought I had solid wired!  Of course, I would never tell him that.