New efforts!

[ivanhedgehog]

As a CoT kickstarter backer I have no issues with MWM at all other than having to patiently wait for the game to be finished.  That isn't really a complaint as it takes time to make a great game.  I would rather wait for a finished game with all the bells and whistles then a rushed game that is bad.  All things considered. I believe they have made excellent progress.  What excites me the most about CoT is the level of customization that we will have with our characters.  Taking everything that was great about the COH character creator and taking it to the next level.  Having overlapping layers of clothing.  Having more variety in clothing materials.  Having more variety in textures for armor.  Having the ability to choose where on your body an emblem or design can go.  Not just limited to chest and back of cape....now you can put it anywhere you want.  Being able to choose which body part your powers emanate from instead of being locked into one of two animations.  All I can say is keep up the good work you are doing MWM and make us a home worthy of heroes and villains for another generation to come.   

I too will wait until it is done. I love the tech updates, not so much the lore updates. I dont even read them honestly. I will learn the lore by playing, just like coh. That isnt to say that others cant like them, just that they do nothing for me. COT has shown some cool stuff so far, but until I see the character creator, is kinda out of mind. Valiance online has been valium online for quite a bit. I understand they are working, I do wonder if they will be able to handle running a AAA mmo when they are done, we will have to see. H&V has never held any interest for me, but then GG always irritated me. Thats my fault for being irritated. SOH looks very good, cant wait to see it grow.

[Taceus Jiwede]

Ultima OnLine started in 1997 (I know I played in 1997) and it is bascialy 20 years old and still running

Dark Ages of Camelot is still running 2001 so it is 16 years old

Crazy I know

I played both those.  I also played UO in 1997 I was 10 years old (Not a friendly game for 10 year olds)  I wasn't aware DAoC was still around either.  UO is BARELY around, the private servers have more love and the game is completely unrecognizable from what it once was.  It's totally unrecognizable from even the Trammel and Faction updates.  EQ is still around too so there is that as well.  That is still what 4? Maybe 5 if you count Runescape.  What about the other countless MMO's that aren't around. There is way more that aren't around then are around.   Doesn't change the fact that if CoH comes back it should be assumed it will Sunset again one day whether its 2 years or 20 years.   I don't expect any MMO to be around forever.

[Harpospoke]

  Even if someone else got the game it wouldn't last forever.  In 20 years its unlikely any MMO's that are currently out will still be out besides maybe WoW.  I haven't forgotten what NCSoft did, but if I were to rate the way people have wrong me in my life NCSoft would like maybe be a 4.  I've forgiven much worse for nothing in return.  Regardless of who brought back CoH it would sunset again eventually.

Which generates a "why bother?" feeling in me.

The whole MMO industry is flawed due to this fact.   I can envision the industry slowly dying off as the years go by and each fan base gets a dose of sunset pain.   The MMO companies apparently just expect fans to shrug and move on to the next game.   Well that doesn't work for me and I doubt I'm the only one.   CoH became a home to me whether it really existed or not.   You don't just toss that in the trash and expect me to be equally as passionate for the next game.

Imagine if the classic board games like Monopoly worked this way.   I doubt they would have lasted very long.

[LateNights]

CoH became a home to me whether it really existed or not.   You don't just toss that in the trash and expect me to be equally as passionate for the next game.

Actually now I wonder what CoT has planned for "if and when" they decide to move on...

Either way if it's as good as I believe it will be, I'll be playing.

[downix]

Actually now I wonder what CoT has planned for "if and when" they decide to move on...

Either way if it's as good as I believe it will be, I'll be playing.

Our underlying server architecture is designed in such a way that local servers are possible, although "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" and local play will lack the persistence and lore. If we do shut down, the plan is to produce a Lore bundle with all quests and contacts for this local play, so if the lights do go out, people can still play together in smaller groups a la Neverwinter Nights or Conan Exiles.

[AmberOfDzu]

Our underlying server architecture is designed in such a way that local servers are possible, although "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" and local play will lack the persistence and lore. If we do shut down, the plan is to produce a Lore bundle with all quests and contacts for this local play, so if the lights do go out, people can still play together in smaller groups a la Neverwinter Nights or Conan Exiles.

I like this approach, and it's another reason CoT is one I'm following with intent to eventually play.

I suspect some of the older AAA MMO's have significant back-end server costs, both in hardware and supporting systems. If you're renting a rack in a datacenter; paying annual license fees for libraries, tools, and databases and so forth; trying to keep old hardware running reliably; and have O/S dependencies, it can be an expensive proposition to try to run forever in a maintenance mode with a steadily declining playerbase.

Today, with sharded servers running on cloud infrastructure and the greater availability of enterprise level database, communications, and automation tools, it's more feasible that costs could scale down with a long-term declining playerbase. And if the costs behind a declining revenue stream can be kept proportionately down, then a maintenance mode can sustain for a long time without being a drag on the higher organization's gross margins.

[MyriVerse]

Imagine if the classic board games like Monopoly worked this way.   I doubt they would have lasted very long.

Imagine if the next MMO provided no growth or expansions. I doubt it would last very long.

[Tubbius]

Imagine if the classic board games like Monopoly worked this way.   I doubt they would have lasted very long.

"Imagine all the Meeple. . . living for today. . . ."

[LateNights]

Our underlying server architecture is designed in such a way that local servers are possible, although "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" and local play will lack the persistence and lore. If we do shut down, the plan is to produce a Lore bundle with all quests and contacts for this local play, so if the lights do go out, people can still play together in smaller groups a la Neverwinter Nights or Conan Exiles.

Awesome news - Massive cheers to the team, very classy!!

[cmgangrel]

I am sure that even if they still had all the account login info, NCSoft would not permit the use.

I haven't logged into NCSoft since the shutdown, and I cannot login in right now to NCSoft with my old login.
NCSoft would want to shrug off all the old zombie accounts, so requiring new logins makes sense.

They had already started transitioning from the username/password combination to email/password combination before the closure announcement.

And yes, they had started sending out emails concerning it (and it was also all over the forums as well).

I remember reading several posts/threads about people who were unable to login to their NCsoft master accounts because they didn't know the email address that they had used (and had also put in incorrect information for the account,which they then forgot,  so confirmation of ownership was a real issue).

So yeah.... not really a "new" problem (or old one for that matter)

*edit reason* Got the timeline incorrect, but they definitely started it before the closure announcement.

[MGLZadok]

My biggest issue with what I see from the successors is the monetary model.  I think CoT is sub-based and SoH is planning to be.  Subscription-based MMOs are seemingly pre-destined for failure in this day and age.  Even large-scale MMOs with large companies backing them like SWTOR have a free-to-play option just to get a player base.  WoW is established and has all of its subscribers hooked.

I feel the best way to do an MMO, especially a superhero MMO where your look isn't based on gear, is microtransactions.  The problem is most companies don't know how to balance microtransactions so it usually becomes pay-to-win.  The only successful microtransaction model I've found is League of Legends.  Path of Exile also works but the exchange rate is way too high on their points.

If we could get a free-to-play MMO where everything that affects gameplay (character slots, power sets, etc.) was purchasable with real-world money or "time" (i.e. currency you earn by playing the game/completing missions) and only purely cosmetic items (costumes, power customizations, exotic color pallets, etc.) were strictly sold for real-world money, I think it could be incredibly profitable.  It's easier to coax someone out of $100 if you do it $5 at a time.  And no sub option would be best, to not create that "sub vs. freebie" divide in the community.  But this model is why League of Legends can give millions of dollars as a prize for its e-sports championship.  I've basically come up with a framework on all of this but this is no time to bore everyone.

[downix]

My biggest issue with what I see from the successors is the monetary model.  I think CoT is sub-based and SoH is planning to be.  Subscription-based MMOs are seemingly pre-destined for failure in this day and age.  Even large-scale MMOs with large companies backing them like SWTOR have a free-to-play option just to get a player base.  WoW is established and has all of its subscribers hooked.

CoT is not sub-based. It uses a hybrid free-to-play/buy-to-play monetary model.

Here is how it works:

To play CoT, you need to buy a copy of the game, say for $45. That $45 includes 3 months subscription, which is normally $15. What a subscription gets you is $18 in the cash store every month and a month early access to items in the cash shop. Beyond this, it is a F2P model, because in today's MMO marketplace it makes the most sense.

[Surelle]

To be honest, it seems that neither model works.  Within the last year we've seen Daybreak cancel EQNext, shutter landmark only months after its release, and proclaim H1Z1 their new flagship franchise.  Funcom similarly has just life-supported all 3 of their remaining MMORPGS (Anarchy Online, Age of Conan and The Secret World), while launching similar limited-scope survival horror games like The Park, Conan:Exiles, and the incoming Secret World: Legends.  Moreover, Turbine has dumped LoTRO and DDO onto Standing Stone while shuttering the Asheron's Call franchise, then turning their attention to the mobile market.

Time marches on, and it may just be that the MMORPG as we know it has run its course, being too costly no matter how it's done to sustain itself over the years as its fickle user base constantly shifts games.  Even successful ventures with more limited massively multiplayer like Elder Scrolls Online and the Destiny franchise seemingly cringe away from the MMO moniker.

PS/  Downix replied at the same time as I did, and I hadn't seen his post while I was writing.  I was replying to MGLZadok.

[ivanhedgehog]

Which generates a "why bother?" feeling in me.

The whole MMO industry is flawed due to this fact.   I can envision the industry slowly dying off as the years go by and each fan base gets a dose of sunset pain.   The MMO companies apparently just expect fans to shrug and move on to the next game.   Well that doesn't work for me and I doubt I'm the only one.   CoH became a home to me whether it really existed or not.   You don't just toss that in the trash and expect me to be equally as passionate for the next game.

Imagine if the classic board games like Monopoly worked this way.   I doubt they would have lasted very long.

when you plant a tree, you know it will someday die. dou you just not plant one because of this? do you not sit in its shade with your loved one because of this? no, you take advantage of it while it is alive and you dont quit living because everything dies eventually.

[Mistress Urd]

The SOH man (Casey E. McGeever) said that there are too many COH successors right now for another kickstarter to success.  Also, in my opinion, since COH was closed 5 years ago, not as many people are checking for news on COH successors.  Also SOH kickstarter had problems accepting donations from internet browsers that had certain security settings. One of my browsers, which had cookies disabled, wasn't able to activate the pledge buttons.

For those who had donated to the KS, SOH said that they will be drawing some alpha and beta testers from the donors (https://www.shipofheroes.com/kickstarter-canceled/).

Actually, SoH was the first time I ever considered putting any money towards any KS project...

I'm more of the I don't care about a game that might be playable in 3 years, call me when I can login and play. Things change over time but yet as much as things change they can also come full circle. Maybe when one of the CoH successors are ready the market will be ready for them.

[Vee]

when you plant a tree, you know it will someday die. dou you just not plant one because of this? do you not sit in its shade with your loved one because of this? no, you take advantage of it while it is alive and you dont quit living because everything dies eventually.

For some reason I read this as being in Maya Angelou's voice....ok so I read every forum post that way, but this one especially.

[downix]

Actually, SoH was the first time I ever considered putting any money towards any KS project...

I'm more of the I don't care about a game that might be playable in 3 years, call me when I can login and play. Things change over time but yet as much as things change they can also come full circle. Maybe when one of the CoH successors are ready the market will be ready for them.

A fully legitimate and understandable argument, one I don't think any of us can begrudge.

[LaughingAlex]

Actually, SoH was the first time I ever considered putting any money towards any KS project...

I'm more of the I don't care about a game that might be playable in 3 years, call me when I can login and play. Things change over time but yet as much as things change they can also come full circle. Maybe when one of the CoH successors are ready the market will be ready for them.

I am pretty much the same way here on that end, I think since now I'm actually able to back things again right now I'm actually looking forward to seeing SoH actually get the donation page up.

I do want a real successor to show up and I really miss playing a game like CoH, it can get boring sometimes with some games I play by myself.

[LateNights]

Our underlying server architecture is designed in such a way that local servers are possible, although "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" and local play will lack the persistence and lore. If we do shut down, the plan is to produce a Lore bundle with all quests and contacts for this local play, so if the lights do go out, people can still play together in smaller groups a la Neverwinter Nights or Conan Exiles.

Noone is talking about this!?!

Tough crowd...

[Tahquitz]

Noone is talking about this!?!

Tough crowd...

I think it's awesome.  Can't wait to see it.