Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7293018 times)

LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27280 on: April 09, 2017, 06:26:58 PM »
I thought that was old news actually, I remember them discussing this in the early days of the kickstarter.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

Winter Fable

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27281 on: April 09, 2017, 09:25:33 PM »
Ok, here's a question for you: What would be needed in order to play a relaunched/reborn CoH still in NCSoft's stable?

This is just me wondering something that struck me after the whole Statesman in Master x Master announcement.

I just want the game back.NCSoft has lost all of the money our group would have spent and none of our group my husband or myself
will play any of their games again.There are only 17 of us left but we chat twice a month and meet up in Paragon Chat when we can.

Some played with their kids and 3 have disabilities but CoX let all us play together and "win".Very few games take into account that
not all players are gamer's.


Long after CoT or SoH or VO have come and gone people will still be working on bringing back CoH or playing it if it returns.For any of its faults
CoH was not just another game.

Hopefully those of us that are older will still be here and able to play if it does come back.

Tyger42

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27282 on: April 10, 2017, 01:43:32 AM »
Ok, here's a question for you: What would be needed in order to play a relaunched/reborn CoH still in NCSoft's stable?

This is just me wondering something that struck me after the whole Statesman in Master x Master announcement.

It may seem petty of me, but I'd want an apology to the fans. Not a personal apology to me, of course. But some statement acknowledging that their actions severely damaged their goodwill with the dedicated fans of the game. I don't care if I lose all my vet rewards and the game is left static in maintenance mode. I just want to play again. An olive branch of goodwill, especially with the sting of them using Statesman in their newest cash grab, seems a perfectly reasonable request.

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27283 on: April 10, 2017, 02:12:47 AM »
Our underlying server architecture is designed in such a way that local servers are possible, although "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" and local play will lack the persistence and lore. If we do shut down, the plan is to produce a Lore bundle with all quests and contacts for this local play, so if the lights do go out, people can still play together in smaller groups a la Neverwinter Nights or Conan Exiles.
Wait... is CoT in trouble!?

Wyrm

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27284 on: April 10, 2017, 02:36:48 AM »
Wait... is CoT in trouble!?
Pretty sure he's talking about contingency planning so that what happened to the players in CoX never happens with CoT.  The lights can't very well go out on a game that hasn't officially turned them on yet.

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27285 on: April 10, 2017, 02:44:13 AM »
Pretty sure he's talking about contingency planning so that what happened to the players in CoX never happens with CoT.  The lights can't very well go out on a game that hasn't officially turned them on yet.
Fair point.

downix

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27286 on: April 10, 2017, 02:48:53 AM »
Wait... is CoT in trouble!?
Just contingency planning.

Plus it was a feature oft requested.

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27287 on: April 10, 2017, 02:53:43 AM »
Just contingency planning.

Plus it was a feature oft requested.
Had me going there for a second. Thanks.

downix

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27288 on: April 10, 2017, 04:41:09 AM »
Fact is, Unreal Engine includes this capability by default. Most MMO's however strip it out. We simply didn't bother with it.

As a result, if you login with name@localhost, it will launch you into a local server. Similarly, if you do name@(friends IP#, if their ports are open) you will log into their local server. It's not as efficient, but it works. We use the mode for debugging all the time.

LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27289 on: April 10, 2017, 06:09:26 AM »
Fact is, Unreal Engine includes this capability by default. Most MMO's however strip it out. We simply didn't bother with it.

As a result, if you login with name@localhost, it will launch you into a local server. Similarly, if you do name@(friends IP#, if their ports are open) you will log into their local server. It's not as efficient, but it works. We use the mode for debugging all the time.

So even after CoT shuts down say, 8-9 years after it's run players could run coop with one another.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

LateNights

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27290 on: April 10, 2017, 07:39:31 AM »
I thought that was old news actually, I remember them discussing this in the early days of the kickstarter.

So even after CoT shuts down say, 8-9 years after it's run players could run coop with one another.

Huh??
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 12:18:59 PM by LateNights »

saipaman

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27291 on: April 10, 2017, 12:09:24 PM »
Huh??

I remember this as well.  It was a major selling point for me.

Azrael

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27292 on: April 10, 2017, 04:40:28 PM »
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 04:47:07 PM by Azrael »

Fireheart

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27293 on: April 10, 2017, 05:32:12 PM »
I don't believe NCSoft ever offered anything for sale, but I could be mistaken.

Be Well!
Fireheart

thunderforce

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27294 on: April 10, 2017, 06:54:39 PM »
Plus it was a feature oft requested.
I'm hoping any successor project has a clear term in the user agreement binding them to steps to be taken if they don't want to run the game anymore.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27295 on: April 10, 2017, 08:49:04 PM »
To be honest, it seems that neither model works.  Within the last year we've seen Daybreak cancel EQNext, shutter landmark only months after its release, and proclaim H1Z1 their new flagship franchise.  Funcom similarly has just life-supported all 3 of their remaining MMORPGS (Anarchy Online, Age of Conan and The Secret World), while launching similar limited-scope survival horror games like The Park, Conan:Exiles, and the incoming Secret World: Legends.  Moreover, Turbine has dumped LoTRO and DDO onto Standing Stone while shuttering the Asheron's Call franchise, then turning their attention to the mobile market.

Time marches on, and it may just be that the MMORPG as we know it has run its course, being too costly no matter how it's done to sustain itself over the years as its fickle user base constantly shifts games.  Even successful ventures with more limited massively multiplayer like Elder Scrolls Online and the Destiny franchise seemingly cringe away from the MMO moniker.

PS/  Downix replied at the same time as I did, and I hadn't seen his post while I was writing.  I was replying to MGLZadok.

Consider the possibility that the problem inherent to all of these failures isn't the economic model, it is the giant company on top that demands extremely high returns on investment.

Ten years ago, people were talking about the demise not of triple-A MMOs, but triple-A *everything*.  That all of video gaming was on life support, and mobile gaming was going to replace everything with its lighter financial burdens and lower break even points.  Ha ha, instead mobile became triple-A in all but the platform, with mobile games running budgets of tens of millions of dollars of development costs and extremely high production value thresholds.

It doesn't fundamentally cost a lot to make an MMO.  It doesn't cost a lot to operate an MMO, at least not in relative terms.  The vast majority of the money spent on game development, MMO or otherwise, is in content development and the customization of engines and tools to support that content development.  To put it another way, the expense of building an MMO, as I see it, are the things you spend money on to differentiate your experience from everyone else's, to give enough people a reason to play it.  Usually, that's done either with the content itself or the unique features that content delivers.

An interesting question to ponder is: when City of Heroes was running, what was its set of unique features, and how expensive were they to deliver.  I'd argue that CoH's primary unique features were things intrinsic to its design and the core of its operational structure, and those things were not expensive to deliver on their own.  Money is the brute force method of making a unique game.  But we had a perfectly viable game platform that did not contain either a state of the art technology platform nor unique-featured content.  It did contain two unique features you don't see in other MMO platforms: a high degree of customization freedom, and what I can only describe as supremely broken gameplay.  They let us be overpowered behemoths and just made it work for the game.  That's not going to attract everyone, but it would attract some people as a differentiator.  And it wasn't expensive to keep those mechanics moving forward.

In my own line of work, there are lots of times I run into situations where people can literally make millions of dollars, but no one is doing it because most of the people in a position to try want to make tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars and it just isn't worth their time to pursue something that will only make maybe a million dollars.  If your threshold for success is a hundred million dollars, probably 99.9% of all game ideas are doomed failures.  If your threshold for success is "get paid a decent amount of money and be able to pay your contributors as if they were professionals" most game ideas are probably nominally viable.

switch

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27296 on: April 10, 2017, 11:16:44 PM »
after watching that video of the podcast of the 5 guys from mmorpg

im just curious  what it would take and how much money it would take to get everything coh ip the code all of it 
its been few yrs now and like that one guy said they are a business with backers and a board im sure if hit them when the stocks are at lowest
a firm  real offer  they might make them take it so im just curious  what a real $$$$  would be not that  $80m rumor  cuz thats just crazy  as old as game is
id say if i won lotto i would give more then 20-30m at most and that would have to include everything ip source code all of it not just what was rumored to be for sale before if igive them another dime it would be for it all so no strings attached to them what so ever after 

just a thought i had  cuz i had a dream i won the lotto   (it just pooped in there)  as  ray would say :D

Nyx Nought Nothing

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27297 on: April 11, 2017, 04:33:50 AM »
after watching that video of the podcast of the 5 guys from mmorpg

im just curious  what it would take and how much money it would take to get everything coh ip the code all of it 
its been few yrs now and like that one guy said they are a business with backers and a board im sure if hit them when the stocks are at lowest
a firm  real offer  they might make them take it so im just curious  what a real $$$$  would be not that  $80m rumor  cuz thats just crazy  as old as game is
id say if i won lotto i would give more then 20-30m at most and that would have to include everything ip source code all of it not just what was rumored to be for sale before if igive them another dime it would be for it all so no strings attached to them what so ever after 

just a thought i had  cuz i had a dream i won the lotto   (it just pooped in there)  as  ray would say :D
It's been two years since word of it first came out, and almost as long since there was anything vaguely official publicly announced, but there is/was a group negotiating to buy the CoH IP and restart the servers. The thing is that those sorts of deals can take years to finalize and NCsoft doesn't exactly have a history of being eager to sell their properties regardless of whether they're actually using them. This topic has been repeatedly rehashed in this thread and is the subject of the other two linked below. At this point there's no official word on whether negotiations are still ongoing, but it seems slightly unlikely that a proposed deal would still be under an NDA if it had been cancelled.
https://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=10649.0
https://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,10284.msg158077.html#msg158077
So far so good. Onward and upward!

Thunder Glove

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27298 on: April 11, 2017, 12:42:46 PM »
It hasn't been officially declared dead, but at this point it's unlikely that the negotiations are still going on.

Nate hasn't heard from the group in over a year.  More damningly, however, Statesman (actually Tyrant) just debuted as a playable character in NCSoft's new game Master x Master, suggesting that they plan on holding onto the CoH IP for a while.  At the very least, IP negotiations would have just gotten a lot more complicated (because NCSoft can't just cut all ties the IP while simultaneously continuing to use part of it in a new game, so some sort of licensing deal would have to be worked out in addition to the sale).

Look, I've been an optimist about this thing the whole time.  I'm the one who has repeatedly told people that Joel Hodgson took five years to negotiate for the rights to MST3K, and that was something he'd created, so two (going on three) years by a complete third party for CoH rights is nothing.

But there's now enough evidence to suggest that NCSoft was never negotiating in good faith (for example, the guy who put Statesman in MxM said that he started trying to do so at around the same time that The THeM started their negotiations, and we can see which of those two groups won out).

It's possible that the negotiations are still going on, of course, under the World's Strictest NDA, but it's looking less and less likely in the face of what little new information we do have.

Surelle

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27299 on: April 11, 2017, 02:16:34 PM »
It hasn't been officially declared dead, but at this point it's unlikely that the negotiations are still going on.

Nate hasn't heard from the group in over a year.  More damningly, however, Statesman (actually Tyrant) just debuted as a playable character in NCSoft's new game Master x Master, suggesting that they plan on holding onto the CoH IP for a while.  At the very least, IP negotiations would have just gotten a lot more complicated (because NCSoft can't just cut all ties the IP while simultaneously continuing to use part of it in a new game, so some sort of licensing deal would have to be worked out in addition to the sale).

Look, I've been an optimist about this thing the whole time.  I'm the one who has repeatedly told people that Joel Hodgson took five years to negotiate for the rights to MST3K, and that was something he'd created, so two (going on three) years by a complete third party for CoH rights is nothing.

But there's now enough evidence to suggest that NCSoft was never negotiating in good faith (for example, the guy who put Statesman in MxM said that he started trying to do so at around the same time that The THeM started their negotiations, and we can see which of those two groups won out).

It's possible that the negotiations are still going on, of course, under the World's Strictest NDA, but it's looking less and less likely in the face of what little new information we do have.

Not to menton Nate's recent Facebook quotes about how the deal was always a remote chance anyway, in response to seeing Statesman in MxM. 

I don't think there were too many people that believed THeM were still in an active NDA after 4 years now, but it was still a reality slap to see the MxM debacle anyway.

There is no one from THeM who owes CoHTitan forum goers a "Well, it failed," message, though, so it's unlikely that the other shoe will ever drop any more than it already has.  Nate Downes comes here, but he only introduced THeM to NCSoft back in 2013 (which we learned about in 2014?  This deal is getting so long in the tooth it's hard to remember anymore) and then went back to work on City of Titans.

Thank goodness for SCoRE, or we wouldn't have any of the remaining City that we've got!